DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Beckham Trade Part 2

You know that reality has no place here, right?

You know what is crazy, Purp? Look at the two most-talented rosters in the AFC as things stand right now. KC and Cleveland. Then look at the similarities. Young stud QBs that are surrounded by playmakers and led by innovative offensive minds.

Both defenses are questionable. Sacks and turnovers are keys to both.

The craziest thing is that both teams were built by John Dorsey.

It's not often people accuse me of that



What will be truly amazing is if Dorsey can build this defense to be worthy of what this offense should be able to do.

The weird thing is I have always been one of the guys who have been an "optimistic, this could really be our year if" fans over the years. I did not always post it because I did not want to hear that I was a "fool" for feeling that way" and I don't mean to imply you specifically would have called me a fool. I think I knew the Browns would be bad but I needed to feel a good season was possible.

Now that we have much more legitimate talent I have a strange "what if XYZ happens" and they fall backwards. I assume I just don't want to be disappointed again?

I agree 100%.

I was talking to my buddy yesterday about this. Top to bottom, I truly believe that it's between the Browns and the Chiefs right now regarding the top roster on paper and feel that we're going to be in the running with them for most dangerous team.

Obv the chargers are still good, the Patriots are always scary, etc. But I can see us having a Chiefs like season.

I don't actually believe the term homer is calling someone a fool. I just think it means their view is obviously slanted or bias.

We didn't have the talent to be so optimistic in the past. The roster was poor and most often the QB room looked like a whose who of which one will be out of the NFL first.

You're a funny guy. Here's what you posted above.....



So you openly admitted that you chose to look at it from one angle. The most positive angle possible.

Then you get mad when someone actually agrees with you?



Save your BS for somebody else. I should have known better than to actually attempt a dialogue with you.

I would argue their is a difference between having swagger and being cocky. I'm cool with being excited and optimistic. I just don't want us to overlook people and things to turn ugly quick when we don't blowout everybody starting week 1. We have the talent to be great. But, there's a lot of work to be done. Other teams are working, too. Each year is its own thing. There's a difference between expecting to win and thinking its just going to happen because you "have more talent."

More than being sick of "temper" and "caution", I'm sick of losing. Putting the cart before the horse can lead to a lot of losing.

Potential is great, but in football you've got to earn everything a day/play at a time.

The Patriots aren't the greatest team on paper, but they sure win a lot.

Lots of teams that have won in March were nowhere to be seen come the playoffs.

Bottom line: I like swagger, and it's nice to have some more on the team. But, it's March, not December. We haven't even gotten them all on the field yet.

It's nice to feel optimistic, but I think it is a bit soon to be burying anybody.

Is KC still on top? I'm not questioning last year, they were great. They'll still be good in all likelihood.

They're losing some pieces, though. Both edge rushers, center, etc.

We're young pretty much everywhere,and they're (mostly) all under contract for awhile in addition to being talented. Dorsey may have gotten better on the contract-side and roster construction in addition to his talent evaluating since KC.

It's definitely easy to get hyped about the direction of the Browns. I am having trouble helping myself at times.

I will say this, to the people going overboard on crazy:

The Browns can be the most talented team in the AFC and STILL not make it to the Super Bowl. Rarely does the best team win a title.

Lower expectations if you are dreaming of Super Bowls. If this team wins 1 in the next 4 or so years, it's a massive win.

Only expectations for me this year is be at or near the top of the AFCN and play in a playoff game.

Highly talented,stacked offense,blah,blah blah.
Couldn't stop the run last year,not much has changed.
Good teams are going to lineup in 12 personnel,play keep away,and ram that ball up our collective arses.
See Patriots,New England

So adding Sheldon Richardson means nothing???

Not to some people it appears.

Not much

I realize you're sitting at your keyboard with bated breath waiting to inject some smart-ass remark,but sometimes you should read what has been posted.
Not much,two small words I used.

You may wish to look at the order of the posts. I actually replied BEFORE your two word post. This is what I was responding to. With a better run stopper in the middle of our DL we should be better at stopping the run.

But thanks for playing!

I'm not going to play.
You left a very important sentence out of you're quote.

OMG !
You're calling Mayfield a " young stud " Vers ?
You think he's good ?
I will give you Kudos for admitting you were wrong in your pre draft evaluation of Baker and also for not being stubborn and open minded as it relates to our QB.

It doesn't mean nothing, but it does need to show itself on the field before it is actually anything here. Nobody gets into the Playoffs based on "potential" or how good they are "on paper". He is good against the run, but he's only one person and one piece. To neutralize him and his ability against the run, they just have to run somewhere else.... we need to be better against the run across the board, and we also need to be better against the passes to TE's & RB's. This defense has holes.

Before the trade for OBJ I was on board with this FA acquisition ... After the trade, we lost out on a possible stud DT @17, so in retrospect this signing could be huge!

I think that is where Baker Mayfield plays into this scenario being ok. I think he has the right personality to handle it. He's going to be at the forefront of everything, but he really seems like a guy who wants everyone to be in the spotlight.

The key will be when things aren't going well, whether in a game itself, or during the midst of a mid-season struggle. Will guys start complaining to the media (which is obv not a good sign) or will they band together and find a way? I think Baker can rally the troops.

I hope they can put this all together because it has so much potential to be a great team.

I get that people are low-key worried though. Because we have seen this time and time again. Trendy pre-season picks fail all the time, and you better believe the Browns are going to be a trendy pick. They're going to be picked to make the playoffs by quite a lot of experts.

I'm not worried about the stacked talent as much as I am Freddie Kitchens not being able to handle it all. Believe me I am in his corner and I think the hire says a lot about him and the way he was received, but that is quite the jump to go from being hired on as a running backs coach, to end up as the head coach by season's end. That does worry me. I'm not doubting the guy, but that is a ridiculous jump. Being a great play caller doesn't equal handling an entire roster and coaching staff (just ask Hue Jackson).

I think by the way they have constructed this roster, that he's not going to just throw his weight around like Jackson did. I think he's bringing in guys who he can hand things off to. I am pulling for him.

I was hoping he'd stay on as OC, but if he's going to man the whole ship, I hope it works, because I think he has the mind of someone in tune to modern football, there is no doubt about that.

Just about every head coach in the NFL became a head coach after being a coordinator - why would Kitchens be any different. What about being a coordinator qualifies you to be a head coach.

Did you read my whole post? I just think that's quite the jump to start the year as a positional coach and end up HC by the end of the season.

Freddy's Coaching Experience:

Glenville State (1999)
- Running backs coach & tight ends coach
LSU (2000)
- Graduate assistant
North Texas (2001–2003)
- Running backs coach
Mississippi State (2004–2005)
- Tight ends coach (2004)
- Running backs coach (2005)
Dallas Cowboys (2006)
- Tight ends coach
Arizona Cardinals (2007–2017)
- Tight ends coach (2007–2012)
- Quarterbacks coach (2013–2016)
- Running backs coach (2017)
Cleveland Browns (2018–present)
- Associate head coach & running backs coach (2018)
- Offensive coordinator (2018)
- Head coach (2019–present)

It went by my head that Freddy was Running backs coach AND ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH initially in 2018. Wonder if Dorsey had something in mind then?

At any rate, staying with the thread topic, I think Mr. Kitchens is as well prepared as any first-time head coach to deal with the issue of dealing with prima donnas.

I made that same point a few months ago when we were talking about coaching candidates. He was ostensibly brought in by Todd Haley, but Haley didn't have to authority to name him AHC, someone above him had to make that call. Add to that he did the play calling in the 4th preseason game, and I suspect that Dorsey had bigger plans for Kitchens from the start.

I don't think it qualifies you, but it is a natural progression.

That said, I don't think it has to work that way. Plus, Freddie was a coordinator, be it 8 games. I don't think there is some magic number one needs to attain to move on to the head coach position.

It is. Anthony Lynn just did practically thr same thing as Kitchens though and is doing well with the Chargers.

It's a wait and see moment. If Richardson does what he's capable of, we're gonna love it.

j/c:

Just wondering, if by some chance, OBJ says, I'm not going to go to Cleveland, what happens to the trade? do we get Peppers back, do we get our 1st and 3rd picks back?

Or are we stiffed on the deal?

Sounds like he just wants to follow Landry's advice and "get his head straight".

Of course I go on a little vacation and this trade goes down.

The entire offense changed overnight. Landry struggling to get open changed overnight. Callaway being expected to produce more than his draft slot changed overnight. Counting on Higgins to greatly improve evaporated.

OBJ is a field tilting player. The entire defense has to shade to his side. The Browns have not seen the likes of that since I have been alive. (JG doesn't count). The Steelers lost Antonio Brown and we got an Antonio Brown caliber of player.

With all of that said, 5th best odds to win the Superbowl...from Vegas? That seems like a pipe dream to me, I simply cannot believe it.


OBJ has consistently said he wants to be legendary, that word legendary is a direct quote. We're gonna find out.

I don't think that scenario will happen, but if it did, I think we are stiffed on the deal.

He no longer gets a say. Even if he had a no-trade clause in his contract his opportunity to say anything was before the deal was finalized with the league office. Once it was submitted and processed, it was a done deal. He's not "coming to Cleveland", he is "IN Cleveland" (not physically, yet, but he is officially on the roster). He *IS* a Cleveland Browns player.

Should he make some whacked out decision to not play for us, which I do not get the feeling he is, he would be choosing to sit out on his contract. We own his rights, he would not be accruing seasons, he would not be playing, he would get nothing. Granted, we would get nothing as well, but there are provisions to allow a team to move such a player to a non-Active spot of the roster so that he wouldn't count against our 53. It requires league approval, but that's a formality.