DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Missouri lawmaker introduces bill that would require AR-15 ownership

I agree.


I make those decisions.

You should read up on the "fast track" system the use in the UK to get rid of old people. Socialism's great until you run out of other people's money.

All of us would save money? Then who is going to pay for it?

We would all pay for it, but just by eliminating the 30% insurance companies take off the top and forcing big pharma and medical device manufacturers to negotiate prices like other countries do would save us all money. Medicare cost to administer is roughly 8%.

Share a link and I will.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-car...ing-healthcare/

I don't see the issue really. Education to help you better manage your chronic illnesses near the end of life, medical professionals coming to you in your home, letting you decide where you want to die and how... Much of this is already done here with hospice and doctors. They seem to have found a friendly yet cost saving means to address the same issues.

There is a good video at the bottom of that page with an interview of an elderly woman with chronic COPD, showing her care routine. I actually think it seemed more than adequate.

But I'm sure there are some horror stories like with any change in a system. Those are the things we as a society have to work on to fix. Protecting the profits of insurance companies and price gouging manufacturers is not.

We need to learn from any problems others have run into, and innovate better systems. But to keep doing the same old thing for fear of change is neither wise nor realistic at this point.

Our system has its own horror stories. 30 million people with no insurance or too little to get the care they need. Emergency rooms when things are at their worst is not a why to treat people humanely, and we all bare the costs. Nothing in healthcare cost more than the ER for value received.

It's just another scare tactic as to why the rest of the free world can do it but we can't.

I think we can all agree that the current system is majorly flawed to put it nicely.

Until we identify, and solve those flaws, then making it easily accessible to all, will just bankrupt this country faster than it is already going to experience.

But along with this is there going to me some responsibility on society? We are already the most obese population in the world, that has to have an affect on our high costs.

Should some people be able to sit around gain 200lbs, smoke like a chimney, drink like a sailor, and not have some responsibility for the strain they end up putting on the system?

Should we have mandated health checks?

How is all this being paid? Who is paying, and how much is each person paying? Cause we all know "free" is not free.

I wish I had the answers, but I don't. I have some ideas, and that starts with a government health facilities. Kind of like the VA, where people without insurance or money can go for care. It can be staffed by doctors who volunteer for tax benefits or something, medical interns as part of their training, helps offset the costs of their education, etc.

And then still have the private hospitals for those that are willing to pay for their own care. The private systems will not be bogged down with patients who cannot or will not pay their bills, thereby lowering the cost for those who are paying.

Not even getting into medical malpractice costs.

Switching to an "education and prevention" based healthcare system from our current "treat the symptom" based system will do a lot to resolve those issues.

But holding onto the current system for 'those who can pay' will only create more issues because it still preserves the current problems.

It's certainly not free. But let me address explaining how it saves everyone money. It's been explained a thousand times, but just for giggles sake I'll do it again.

In every nation where national healthcare is adopted, here's what happens.

Standardized costs on medical procedures and testing.

Gone are the days when a hospital can charge you $400 dollars for two Advil. Gone are the days when one hospital can charge you $5000 dollars for the same procedure another hospital charges $1800 dollars for. This will cut the cost that will be paid by the tax payer in premiums. Because let's face it, the cost of healthcare will be paid via taxes in any national healthcare program.

I've seen numbers anywhere from 6 billion to 16 billion that healthcare insurance companies are making in profits so I have no idea what that number really is, but that will no longer be the case and that is yet another saving.

As of now none of this is being done

Lower drug costs. Bids will be taken on all generic drugs and a fixed "Global average price" will be applied to name brand drugs. As of now the American people paid for more than 70% of drug company R&D through the 60's and 70's. 61% as of 2004 and has just dipped below 50% recently.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/...-falls-below-50

So we've been footing much of the bill for their R&D as well as paying the highest prescription costs on the globe for generations now. It's been a lose/lose for Americans all along.

What issues would it still preserve? I'm not sure I follow that.

If you can't afford the private option you do not use the private option, BUT those that choose and pay for the private are not exempt from their share of the public, and therefore could use it if they so chose.

There by the private option would only be funded by those paying for private care (This is already going on BTW in physician care with concierge doctors). If the hospitals want to overcharge, they eventually put themselves out of business cause even those willing to pay more for private care, would forego it if they feel the value does not meet the cost.

I'm just really starting to get into the candidates stand on the issues.

Beto O'Rourke actually agrees with people having the option of private healthcare insurance if they so choose.

I'm not sure of his stance on all issues as details slowly come out and there's SO DAMNED MANY of them!

But on this issue I certainly agree with him. I'm all about having a national healthcare plan but I'm also about Americans having a choice.

https://www.businessinsider.com/beto-orourke-healthcare-plan-bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-2019-3

Lost in all this "medicare for all" thing is: Okay, those that can afford supplemental insurance can get that and pay for it. How long will it be before those that can't, or don't, pay for supplemental insurance say "not fair"?

Also, last I read, medicare pays about 87% of costs for medical 'treatments'. Private insurance pays about 140% of costs.

I know of several doctors that now refuse new medicare patients because they lose money. I know of hospitals that WANT to do the same.

I know of 2 doctors that are retiring because of all the red tape involved with medicare, and health care in general. Now, those doctors are ABLE to retire, so good for them.

Our health care system has issues, no doubt. Medicare for all isn't the answer. Neither is 1 payer.

You do have some doctors who opt out of medicare. But you also have doctors that "are not covered in your network" with private insurance as well. I've never heard of a person on medicare having any real problem finding a quality doctor or quality care within what the program covers.

Our current healthcare system isn't the answer either.

You forget the loss the doctors, and hospitals take under medicare.

And you still didn't address the supplemental insurance for those that can afford it. You KNOW how that will pan out, right?

The whole thing is a mess, and it's going to take more than one action to correct it. And most likely it will get much worse before it gets better.

And with the idiots we have in Washington now, it most likely will cost us 2-3x what it costs now.

Sure arch, they're all losing money when they treat medicare patients. I'd like you to actually show some sources that back that up.

See, that's the kind of crap people say to make excuses against national healthcare. Yet the entire free world has national healthcare with fixed costs and are better rated than we are. They aren't going out of business. They aren't going broke and they aren't losing money.

But ah hell no! We can't do it here!

In all fairness, being on Medicare, I had one doctor for a necessary but minor surgery a few years back, tell me that he gets ripped off by Medicare for procedures that he performs.

The part about it being Necessary but Minor is Key,,, Is he saying that if I didn't have any insurance (including Medicare), I could go to hell?

Anyway, I'm sitting in the doctors office and I thought, geez, what's he freakin want, a tip?

Hell..hand them out at birth. Everyone gets one. You only get one bullet though. Use it up. Too bad.

That's one place I think is legitimate. Medicare does delay payments to doctors and hospitals that make it more difficult on them.

But they're not "losing money" on the care they give medicare patients.

And they pay a boatload more in taxes.

What does that have to do with anything?

As if there isn’t any qualified sharpshooters and gun handlers on the left side of the isle.

Great explanation.

Look, if you can't figure out that universal health care, or 'single payer' is going to raise your taxes a good amount, I'm done.

Shoot, there's people on here complaining about how they only got an extra $23 a week in a tax cut............I can't imagine the outrage if they found out they owed an additional 10% weekly, monthly, yearly - however you want to figure it - for national health insurance.

What ever. Have it your way.

Yet you will no longer pay insurance premiums for healthcare. You do realize that when you show the additional costs on one end you have to provide the savings on the other end or you're giving a one sided argument.

I'm not one of those who are fooled into thinking everything is free. But I am one who understands that if you lower drug prices and cap procedure costs that in the end you save money.

I understand much, MUCH more than you give me credit for. Thanks for playing.

Yet that's not how you explained it. You explained the cost side but not the savings side.

Thanks for not playing...... fair?

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings, and outpacing bankruptcies due to credit-card bills or unpaid mortgages, according to new data. And even having health insurance doesn't buffer consumers against financial hardship.

The findings are from NerdWallet Health, a division of the price-comparison website. It analyzed data from the U.S. Census, Centers for Disease Control, the federal court system and the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that promotes access, quality and efficiency in the health-care system.

"A lot of Americans are struggling with medical bills," said NerdWallet Health Vice President Christina LaMontagne.

NerdWallet estimates that households containing 1.7 million people will file for bankruptcy protection this year.

Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health.

And if you think only Americans without health insurance face financial troubles, think again. NerdWallet estimates nearly 10 million adults with year-round health-insurance coverage will still accumulate medical bills that they can't pay off this year.

High-deductible insurance plans requiring consumers to pay more out-of-pocket costs are a challenge for many households.

"With an average American family bringing home $50,000 in income, a high medical bill and a high-deductible insurance plan can quickly become something they are unable to pay," LaMontagne said. "If you have an out-of-pocket maximum of $5,000 or $10,000, that's really tough," he said.

The analysis of rising health costs is the first of its kind for NerdWallet.

Obamacare 'Not a Panacea'

With millions buried under medical bills, more insured under the Affordable Care Act will not completely solve that problem, LaMontagne said. While the ACA's reforms will indeed give more people coverage, NerdWallet's data shows that millions of people with year-round, full coverage are still overwhelmed by medical bills, she said.

"I don't think Obamacare is going to get rid of the situation," LaMontagne said. "The data suggests that already-insured Americans are struggling. With the expansion of insurance, it doesn't seem like that problem will go away entirely. It's not a panacea."

The number of medically related bankruptcies is slightly less than the rate of recent years. Despite the anticipated 2013 dip, such bankruptcies represent about three out of every five filings.

"A lot of Americans probably think about bankruptcy as coming from unpaid credit-card debt or mortgages," LaMontagne said. "But the root cause of all those troubles may well be medical bills."

Not surprisingly, more than 11 million people will take on additional credit-card debt to cover mounting medical bills, LaMontagne said. Because credit cards often charge high interest rates for unpaid balances, debt only mounts, creating a vicious cycle for consumers.

Meanwhile, NerdWallet found, 15 million people will deplete their savings to cover medical bills. Another 10 million will be unable to pay for necessities such as rent, food and utilities because of those bills.

Skipping Prescription Medications

When their savings are gone and their credit cards are maxed out, stretched consumers take the drastic step of cutting back on prescription medications.

More than 25 million people are skipping doses, taking less medication or delaying refilling prescriptions to save money, NerdWallet found.

"That statistic is actually quite troubling," LaMontagne said. Delaying needed medication is a short-term fix that only triggers more health problems in the long term, she said.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Wrong. I said $23 a month.
I also have a $5000 deductible. So, if my taxes climbed at least I know I’m covered. As it is I’m paying out of pocket anyway. So I’m generally trying to avoid using it as it’s too expensive to access. Though this winter I ended up in the ER for 4 hours to the tune of $2800. But at least I wasn’t ‘taxed’.

It will also raise your take home pay a good amount more.

That's one heck of an e.r. if it was only $2800.

I doubt it. In fact, raising taxes does NOT increase your take home pay.

For most Americans, they get insurance through their job. Sure, the company foots the bill, by charging more for the product.

If you think raising taxes in order to get single payer or national health insurance is somehow going to save you money, you're naive at best. JMO

They started an IV. Gave me three different meds through it. Took it out. Sent me home with a script for steroids and pain meds.
$2800 was MORE than enough.

Oh, I agree there, no doubt.

A few months back my wife insisted my daughter go to the e.r. I said no, it's just a virus. She'll be fine in a few days.

Wife didn't think so. So, at 3 in the morning, she took Sooga.

The bills, in total? Over 4 grand. (found that out about 2 1/2 months later, when they showed up. In the mean time, the hospital was kind enough to send us 2 different 'satisfaction' surveys........hmmmm)

Oh, my daughter? Doctors didn't even give her an i.v., or prescribe anything. It was a virus that 'will just have to run its course.'

Ahhh... for profit medicine.

Also, my $2800 was after a 5% reduction they so generously gave me for paying in full.

The hospital is a non profit.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks car insurance is a valid comparison.

You don't have to have car insurance. There is no mandate to have car insurance.

If you have a car, you do. But no is forced to own a car. There is no mandate to. Owning a car is a voluntary action.

The comparison you are making is equal to saying all those people who live in Manhattan that don't drive, don't own cars, and never will... still have to carry auto insurance.

Well if you don't have a pulse you don't need health insurance either.

But you still have to pay taxes.