If anyone else is like me - it's a hard thing to adjust to the Browns sort of being Front Runners and not the underdog ... not for any other reason than we've had such a history of stuff derailing, that you can't help but worry a little & want to still come in under the radar .... but .... dang, at the same time it feels GOOD !
Last edited by mgh888; 03/21/1911:53 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
OBJ is the best skill position play-maker the Browns have had since Jim Brown.
Any takers? I'm young so maybe I missed someone. Ozzie?
Gary Collins? Webster Slaughter?
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Warfield, Brian Sipe, both in the ballpark, QB hard to gauge, Warfield less productive but in a different era. Greg Pruitt maybe for flash plays, for a few seasons.
Collins and Slaughter were not close, Ozzie also in the ballpark. Kelly had sustained production for many years, value to the team could be comparable.
OBJ trumps all those, IMO, but his salary may not be sustainable long-term. But, to quote Greenspan, in the long-term, we're all dead.
Jim Brown was just before my time, different era, but likely a more valuable player to the team. Otto, Motley, others were so long ago it just was not the same sport.
No, Moss had that huge season in NE after he was traded. I probably should have included him, but he pretty much quit on Oakland and they almost had to trade him. It's kinda like the Antonio Brown situation, but worse.
Hey, I forgot about AB. I know he is older, but he is still a top three WR along w/Julio and OBJ.
Do you remember how old Portis was when he was traded? Hmmmm....I think he did have some big years after he was traded. I forgot about him.
You know.........I think you are right about Cutler, as well. I didn't think of him because he turned out to be a disappointment, but he was highly regarded at the time he was traded from Denver to the Bears. Didn't they give up a pair of first round choices or something like that for him?
Just looked it up, Portis rushed for 3099 yds and 29 TDS in his first two seasons then was traded to Washington. He was 22 yrs old. In 7 seasons at Washington he had 6824 yds and 46 TDs.
After trading Portis, the Broncos went with Party Starter Reuben Droughns the following season. After Droughns racked up 1200+ yds for Denver he came to Cleveland, I believe as a free agent and also ran for 1200+ yds. Crazy. And probably why I remember the Portis trade.
Also looked up the Cutler trade... traded Cutler and a 5th for Orton, 2 1sts (2010 and 2011) and a 3rd rd pick. That's a great haul for Denver, actually. They could have made out on those picks, but passed over guys such as Earl Thomas and Clay Matthews for Alphonso Smith and Robert Ayers.
We didn't give up nearly that much for OBJ, but Cutler is a quarterback, and like you said, regarded very highly. Looking it up, Cutler never won more than 10 games in a season and finished his career a lackluster 74-79 as starter.
NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein said on the network’s “Move the Sticks” podcast that the Browns didn’t place first-round value on the No. 17 pick they dealt as the centerpiece of the package for Beckham due to a dearth of first-round talent in the upcoming NFL draft.
“I had heard that the Browns considered there to be 15 players that are first-round players in this year’s draft,” Zierlein said. “That sounds about right. About 15 guys who are first-round picks. Analytics is always about quantifying value so, for them, that 17th pick, they considered that a second-round player, generally speaking.”
Warfield eclipsed 1,000 yards just once in his 13 year career. OBJ has four 1,000 plus yard seasons in his 5-year career.
I get the game has changed, but people talk about OBJ as a guy who has the ability to be the best ever. Warfield was a great player, but is not in that conversation.
Warfield eclipsed 1,000 yards just once in his 13 year career. OBJ has four 1,000 plus yard seasons in his 5-year career.
I get the game has changed, but people talk about OBJ as a guy who has the ability to be the best ever. Warfield was a great player, but is not in that conversation.
In Warfield's first 4 of 5 years he played in 2 less games per year totaling 8 games and he only played in 1 game his second season missing 13 more a total of 21 missed games that would have added to his total considerably ...
Last edited by PastorMarc; 03/21/1909:24 PM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I would agree that the stats do not reflect the comparability of Beckham and warfield. Both great receivers! As far as bad trades, hard to top frank robinson from the reds to the orioles because he was “an old 30”.
At the time of his retirement in 1977, Warfield was tied for #3 All Time Touchdowns in a career at 85
Cleveland Browns records held at the time of Retirement ( 1977 )
• [1st] Most Yards Receiving, Season – 1,067 (1968) • [2nd] Most Touchdown Receptions, Career – 52 • [2nd] Highest Average Gain Per Reception, Career – 19.2 • [2nd] Most Consecutive Games With Touchdown Reception – 6 (1968) • [Tied for 2nd] Most Touchdown Receptions, Season – 12 (1968)
Pro Football Hall of Fame July 30, 1983
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
I do think it's hard to compare stats from different eras - and harder still to grasp how pass happy today's game is.
Marino threw for over 4,000 yards in 6 seasons ... over 5K once. In 2018 Derek Carr through for over 4K yards ... An aging universally thought to be in need of replacement Eli Manning threw for 4,300 yards ....... if you look at the middle of the pack in 1984 when Marino threw for 5K - the 15th/16th QB on the list was throwing 2500 yards a season. in 2018 the 15th/16th QB by yards is throwing 3,800 yards.... 52% more than 25 years ago.
With that said - I think OBJ is a transitional talent and play maker. Based on Baker progressing just a little - and based on Freddie being 1/2 way competent as a HC. . . . this trade and marriage of talents is a great move.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I do think it's hard to compare stats from different eras - and harder still to grasp how pass happy today's game is.
Marino threw for over 4,000 yards in 6 seasons ... over 5K once. In 2018 Derek Carr through for over 4K yards ... An aging universally thought to be in need of replacement Eli Manning threw for 4,300 yards ....... if you look at the middle of the pack in 1984 when Marino threw for 5K - the 15th/16th QB on the list was throwing 2500 yards a season. in 2018 the 15th/16th QB by yards is throwing 3,800 yards.... 52% more than 25 years ago.
With that said - I think OBJ is a transitional talent and play maker. Based on Baker progressing just a little - and based on Freddie being 1/2 way competent as a HC. . . . this trade and marriage of talents is a great move.
I'm not arguing that at all.. The question was "Is OBJ the best Brown since Jim Brown retired, and if not, who may have been." Different eras, but ignoring Warfield is like saying because Ryan Tannehill had two 4000 yard passing seasons out of 6 total is a better QB than Bob Greise, who never passed for more than 2,500 yards in a season.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
huh. Can you put him (Gordon), ahead of Kevin Johnson.
Can you put Kevin Johnson ahead of Michael Jackson.
Can you put Michael Jackson ahead of Webster Slaughter.
those 3 are just what I woulda considered #1 wr deep outside options.
I can't put one in front of the other, and everybody plays different roles, What about Ernest Byner?, What about Josh Cribbs, Everybody does something different, it's not worth a comparison. "What about Ozzie Newsome!" get outta here with the original troll question. ( I finally learned the definition of what a troll is, it's a verb not a noun.)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I think Drew Brees, and whatever that San Diego charger quarterback who's been there for 17 years or something and is stll there, I want to call him Phil Collins,
He and Brees were both on the Chargers for a short time on the day they were drafted, and a trade was in the works, for the drafted player to go somewhere in exchange for the pick to draft the other player.
So ya I think Drew Brees was traded, 45 minutes after he was drafted, by the Chargers.
