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really no biggy and I cringed after I wrote that cause I really enjoy talking football with you. But you have always stated how posters come at you and insult you if you put up a counter opinion. I saw a poster getting excited about the best QB prospect in quite some time. And 3 posters like it...and you slammed them. Like they don't have the right to their opinion...only you? If you don't get it. Then forget about it.
Just don't whine any more about posters attacking you for stating your opinion...when you don't give them that same respect that you wish to be given you.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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So anyways, if baker puts those numbers up, we’re gonna have the best record in the league.
13-3. Don’t argue.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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jc -
I don't think it's that implausible to see a scenario where Baker ends up being the better QB than Mahomes.
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j/c
A couple things come to mind when thinking about defenses adjusting to stop Baker:
I recollect two games where Baker really struggled in the first half. One was Houston...can't remember the other. Houston dropped their LBs a little differently and took something away in the first half. After halftime though, the Browns adjusted and Baker was flying again. Was that a Freddie thing? A Baker thing? A combo thing?
Baker played against the Bengals and Ravens twice each. Neither opponent managed to adjust to Baker enough to make a difference. Baker lit up the stat sheet against the vaunted Ravens defense like no other QB in 2018...twice. Baker was one inexplicably-blown whistle away from sweeping those two teams.
I'm NOT saying teams will not be able to adjust to Baker going forward. But he is off to an impressive start.
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I don't think Baker lit up the Ravens twice. He had 4 TDs and 4 Interceptions against them in the two games. His completion percentage 58.1 and 54.8. The team scored only 13 points in the first game. It was the defense that won that game.
I think the team that defended Baker the best was the Chargers. They kept him in the pocket and dropped linebackers over the middle. Baker had a hard time seeing downfield. His completion percentage was 47.8 w/1 TD and 2 picks. He was also sacked 5 times as he held the ball a long time because he was having trouble locating receivers.
I also thought he struggled against Denver, given that all but one of their corners were injured and they were playing safeties at corner. His QBR was only 43.5 that game.
I thought Baker's best game was the first time they played against the Bengals. He had 4 TDs and 0 picks. Put up 35 points. Completed over 73 percent of his passes. Completely dissected their D.
I was just looking at his year-long stats. Baker was 17th in yards and 11th in TDs. Both of those are impressive given that he didn't play in two games. However, he was tied for 27th in interceptions which isn't good considering he did not play in 2 games and his QBR was 23rd.
The comparisons to Mahomes are premature. The latter was second in yards, 1st in TDs, Tied for 20th in picks, and 1st in QBR.
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The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.
...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".
I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes. 
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.
...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".
I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes. We are not waiting for the next season, We are Chomping at the bit for the next season!
Joe Thomas #73
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Just don't whine any more about posters attacking you for stating your opinion...when you don't give them that same respect that you wish to be given you.
That's rich considering the source.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.
...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".
I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes. For me, the comparisons are not premature. I mean it's not like mahomes has been in the league for years. Mahomes has played in 17 regular season games for a team that previously went to the playoffs. Baker has played 13 games for a team that won zero games the year prior. 17 games vs 13 games isn't premature. If you're going to call the assessments on Baker premature then you must do so for Mahomes. Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes. I understand the cautious optimism from Browns fans...because, well, we are Browns fans, but I already know what we have at quarterback. I can tell you today that our quarterback is every bit as good as the one in Kansas city and that's not premature. This will be an interesting year for some because our team is now more talented than the Chiefs. I would expect Baker to throw for over 40 TDs this upcoming season. And that's not really a guess because the tape says Baker is actually that good.
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I don't think Baker lit up the Ravens twice. He had 4 TDs and 4 Interceptions against them in the two games. His completion percentage 58.1 and 54.8. The team scored only 13 points in the first game. It was the defense that won that game.
I think the team that defended Baker the best was the Chargers. They kept him in the pocket and dropped linebackers over the middle. Baker had a hard time seeing downfield. His completion percentage was 47.8 w/1 TD and 2 picks. He was also sacked 5 times as he held the ball a long time because he was having trouble locating receivers.
I also thought he struggled against Denver, given that all but one of their corners were injured and they were playing safeties at corner. His QBR was only 43.5 that game.
I thought Baker's best game was the first time they played against the Bengals. He had 4 TDs and 0 picks. Put up 35 points. Completed over 73 percent of his passes. Completely dissected their D.
I was just looking at his year-long stats. Baker was 17th in yards and 11th in TDs. Both of those are impressive given that he didn't play in two games. However, he was tied for 27th in interceptions which isn't good considering he did not play in 2 games and his QBR was 23rd.
The comparisons to Mahomes are premature. The latter was second in yards, 1st in TDs, Tied for 20th in picks, and 1st in QBR. Baker had 342 yards passing against the Ravens in the first game. More importantly, his team won. Baker had 376 yards passing in the second Ravens game. The premature whistle cost them that game. Ben R had 274 & 270 against the Ravens. His team also split with the Ravens. Other teams passing yards vs the Ravens in 2018: Buffalo = 70 Cincy = 265 Denver = 192 Tennessee = 51 New Orleans = 212 Carolina = 232 Cincy = 207 Oakland = 182 Atlanta = 97 Kansas City = 348 Tampa Bay = 156 San Diego = 147 Interesting that the only other QB to go for 300 is Mahomes. There were some darn good/great QBs whose stats didn't sniff Baker's against the Ravens. You are correct that San Diego is the other team that Baker really struggled against. We were outmatched all over the field in that game. Our defense gave up some huge play sin the first half. Baker with a great one minute drive to get a FG. His early Q3 pick essentially ended the game for us. San Diego went to the AFC Championship game for a very good reason. FWIW: Rivers threw for 160 in the victory over the Ravens to go the AFC Championship game.
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The Ravens also allowed a total of 20 TD passes over 16 games, and 20% (4) of those were thrown by Baker Mayfield.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Never mind....
You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.
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All I am saying is that the Ravens allowed 20 pass TDs for the season, ans Baker threw 4 of those in 2 games.
The Ravens defense did a great job of confusing a lot of QBs last year. For a rookie, especially, I think that Baker did a great job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Never mind....
You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way. Your actions - and over-reactions - to much that is Baker-positive is very telling.
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Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes.
I drafted Mahomes and Hill in fantasy and rode them all season. I'm not sure I thought MVP, but I definitely thought he had a ton of upside. He was my QB that draft. It seems to have worked out pretty well for Mahomes and the Browns that Hue didn't get his hands on him at 12. Even if it did take an extra year.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Never mind....
You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way. Your actions - and over-reactions - to much that is Baker-positive is very telling. Your need to post that is also "very telling." *shrug*
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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All I am saying is that the Ravens allowed 20 pass TDs for the season, ans Baker threw 4 of those in 2 games.
The Ravens defense did a great job of confusing a lot of QBs last year. For a rookie, especially, I think that Baker did a great job. the problem with stats is that you're not telling the whole story. stating that the ravens allowed 20 TD passes, and baker had 4 of them sounds really good. but i can play that game too. how? the ravens only had 12 ints for the year. 4 of them? they got from Baker mayfield, thats 33%. so baker had 20% of TD's allowed by the ravens, but 33% of the int the ravens had the entire season. slow your roll.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Baker Mayfield had 50% of the OT wins against the Ravens... Mahomes had the other 50%.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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baker mayfield has 100% support of browns fans. only stat this offseason i care about.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Never mind....
You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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[quote]the ravens only had 12 ints for the year. 4 of them? they got from Baker mayfield, thats 33%.
so baker had 20% of TD's allowed by the ravens, but 33% of the int the ravens had the entire season. /quote]
That stat is a fair statement, as well. They did get to Baker more than any other QB. He was a rookie, and their defense took advantage of that fact as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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YTown, I like you and I don't want to get into it w/you..........but, the stat you posted and the ones another poster posted showed only isolated stats. I tried to show both positive and negative stats to show a more complete picture. It seems to me that you guys want to win an argument than have a true conversation. Several posters "liked" your posts and take a look at who they are. The only one who surprises me is Homes. He is usually very objective. With that said, I will leave the thread because once again........a rational conversation is not going to happen where we examine all the facts. Selected stats while ignoring others is simply a device to win an argument and is polar to honest debate. And I refuse to just post the negative stats to win an argument. I was interested in a rational and honest discussion. It's not going to happen. Congratulations.........you guys win! 
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I suppose it was only a matter of time before you made things personal... I have a hunch that you really won.
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jc...
Those Browns fans that want to dream and speculate based on past performances...DREAM ON.
No one can take your dreams away...and I hope every dream comes true.
What I've noticed in my many years as a football fan..as a Browns fan..in reality, last year's performance means nothing when projecting future performances for the upcoming season.
But hey, that's just me...
DREAM ON, Browns fans!
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.
...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".
I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes. For me, the comparisons are not premature. I mean it's not like mahomes has been in the league for years. Mahomes has played in 17 regular season games for a team that previously went to the playoffs. Baker has played 13 games for a team that won zero games the year prior. 17 games vs 13 games isn't premature. If you're going to call the assessments on Baker premature then you must do so for Mahomes. Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes. I understand the cautious optimism from Browns fans...because, well, we are Browns fans, but I already know what we have at quarterback. I can tell you today that our quarterback is every bit as good as the one in Kansas city and that's not premature. This will be an interesting year for some because our team is now more talented than the Chiefs. I would expect Baker to throw for over 40 TDs this upcoming season. And that's not really a guess because the tape says Baker is actually that good. I am curious to see Mahommes with a bad coach and bad surrounding players. We saw Mayfield still look good with each, and we will now see Mayfield with superior talent. I don't think you can compare the two from last year, because the situations they were in (particularly with hue, then an interim coach, and with FAR less talent). I think a lot of posters forget the cluster crap that baker was thrown into, and how he responded. to me, that gives a lot of weight on his side of the scale. Mahommes was in the perfect situation, Mayfield was in the worst.
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There really isn't much of a chess piece adjustment for Baker - as the norm really like Brady the game plan will be to hit Baker and hit him often! But X's and O's as a rookie he adjusted to them. Its only going to come quicker as he recognizes what Defense are doing via gained experience.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think you can compare the two, you just have to take their situations into consideration. KC had deep threats in Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins. They had Hunt (half the season) and Kelce... they were loaded. We didn't have a deep threat after we traded away Gordon.
It's just interesting because the same fans who would say that the Browns lacked weapons on offense because the previous regime sucked are telling others to cool their jets on Mayfield. Given the circumstances, Mayfield has a spectacular season. Imagine if Mayfield was with the Chiefs and we had Mahomes. Would we have passed for 50 TDs? Would Mayfield have only 27 TD passes? Who knows, but a lot of things matter...
#Feedthebias
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There's just no way to tell. There's no way to know what "might have been". So anything said isn't actually a comparison. It's pure speculation with nothing to base it on. Those aren't the same thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm not comparing what might have been... I'm comparing the two quarterbacks and their situations. I couldn't tell you what Mahomes would do here, nor would I want to speculate on that. I'm saying you can't compare them at face value.
In my opinion because of the situations, Mayfield and Mahomes both had great seasons. And I'm not alone.
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Well i agree with that. That's just not the conclusion I came to in reading what you had posted.
Baker did great considering all the circumstances he had to play under. There's no doubt about that. It just seemed like you were trying to indicate what the two may have done had the roles been reversed. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Vers's commentary on Baker has always been very fair. It's only the usual suspects who get their back up when he's even slightly critical of Mayfield.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.
Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season?
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Let it go, bro. I'm out of this thread. I just wanted to say thanks.
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We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not. 
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.
Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season? Well, actually, someone could make a strong case that Baker was the best rookie quarterback ever.
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What you are talking about isn't what we were talking about.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.
Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season? Well, apparently Baker is the Best Rookie QB EVER at most passing TDs. And he didnt even play a full season. Give him time, he'll break some more records next season. To add to the new browns jersey listing "Best Ever..."
No Craps Given
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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