Baker Mayfield - DawgTalkers.net

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

Well alrighty then

i got my mayfield jersey on since 8 am, and it aint coming off today.

OK good

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

Lets be real here, 8 picks is a little high!

only reason he doesn't get to 4500 is if chubb and kareem make it impossible for him.

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

Lets be real here, 8 picks is a little high!

im counting 2 as tip balls by the WR's

Glad to see all u negative nancy’s coming around ....

....

just like i predicted ...

BBS (Battered Brown Syndrome) has morphed to SBBB’s ....

i was worried.

now im not. at least 4-2 in the division. don't argue.

the island is a colony

I am still in shock. Vice Grips and Spiderman?

Vice Grips and Magneto

Last year Diam had a boat to the Island. This year people are flying there under their own power.

Next person that makes a crack about the "factory of sadness" gets the rasberries from me.

with baker, duke might get 300 rushing/300 receiving with the release of perriman.

haha so true

Originally Posted By: Swish

i was worried.

now im not. at least 4-2 in the division. don't argue.

U must not remember me from the cess pool .... of course i’m gonna argue with u ... *L* ...

4 - 2 .....Pfffft ....

Try 6 - 0 ... barring injuries there’s no reason we can’t do it ...

I can’t believe this bro ... i was wrong once again .... this is WAY MORE FUN THAN I EVER IMAGINED ... I still can’t believe it ... and i didn’t evenwant OBJ, thought the cost would be to high ... now I couldn’t be happier ....

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo

Vice grips and Stickum

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

Last year Diam had a boat to the Island. This year people are flying there under their own power.

...

Thanks for the laugh bro ... that was funny ...

only reason i say 2 is because the ravens and steelers will still be tough in their house.

but im expecting baker to absolutely destroy these clowns on gameday. if we lose it will be because of defense.

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

MVP?

Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

MVP?

i think he's definitely in the discussion. it depends on if mahomes has another crazy year, and who knows what jimmy G and others do.

but if mayfield puts those numbers up and we have a 1st round bye, than he's the MVP.

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

I dunno......

....we could see a lot of Drew Stanton handing off to a 3rd string RB after halftimes.

Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

I dunno......

....we could see a lot of Drew Stanton handing off to a 3rd string RB after halftimes.

unfortunately we dont play the bengals 10 times a year.

My first thought this morning was Chubb, Landry and OBJ that's 3k plus yards right there.

Freddie and Baker are eating their cheerios this morning thinking o'boy this is gonna be fun.

Baker is gonna get landry and obj a 100 catches a piece.

Originally Posted By: Swish

only reason i say 2 is because the ravens and steelers will still be tough in their house.

but im expecting baker to absolutely destroy these clowns on gameday. if we lose it will be because of defense.

for real man, I think 6-0 is more likely. Ravens are a pure dumpster fire right now on Def. and their offense aint scaring no one now that teams fig out lamar and their run game.

Pitt is a media dumpster fire with guys leaving left and right to get out of there (they just signed a ST LB for 2 million a year and a below average CB for 25 million lol).

I don't see a single team in the division being able to hold our jock. That's for real too, not just orange and brown glasses. I had us winning the div before OBJ. Now, were talking home field in the playoffs run here.

Rats D has taken a HUGE HIT bro ... there not gonna be the same ....

Mosley was the best player on that D ...

Weddle was the heart and soul and the QB of the D ...

Smith had 8 sacks ....

Suggs didn’t have that big of a roll last year I don’t believe .... but its not going to help ...

And word is Jimmy Smith is on his way out ....

I see you still have a smidge of living in the past in U ... you’ve come a long long way but u still have a few inches to go ... *L* ...

One thing I hope: that the offensive skill guys don't act like divas if they don't get their touches/looks/yards/etc ... I'm hoping Landry's presence will quell OBJ's ego

Originally Posted By: Swish

Baker is gonna get landry and obj a 100 catches a piece.

I actually hope not ... dead serious on that ...

Now Chubb and Hunt getting 450 - 500 carries total ... that i’m down with ...

hopefully you're correct. im still slightly hesitant because we dont exactly have a good track record of predicting the ravens and steelers demise.

i think we sweep the ravens. i love lamar but his still raw, has no weapons to throw to except their TE, and yea that defense is done.

sweep of the ravens and bengals i think. but ravens could steal one.

biggest issue is pukesburgh

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

One thing I hope: that the offensive skill guys don't act like divas if they don't get their touches/looks/yards/etc ... I'm hoping Landry's presence will quell OBJ's ego

i dont think that will be an issue. OBJ just wants to win. if he gets his normal amount of touches and we're winning, i expect the most drama coming from us having too many TD celebrations.

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Originally Posted By: Swish

only reason i say 2 is because the ravens and steelers will still be tough in their house.

but im expecting baker to absolutely destroy these clowns on gameday. if we lose it will be because of defense.

for real man, I think 6-0 is more likely. Ravens are a pure dumpster fire right now on Def. and their offense aint scaring no one now that teams fig out lamar and their run game.

Pitt is a media dumpster fire with guys leaving left and right to get out of there (they just signed a ST LB for 2 million a year and a below average CB for 25 million lol).

I don't see a single team in the division being able to hold our jock. That's for real too, not just orange and brown glasses. I had us winning the div before OBJ. Now, were talking home field in the playoffs run here.

I think the tales of the Ravens defensive demise are a bit early. They lost a bunch of older vets, but the replacements they've been grooming shouldn't be overlooked. Weddle is a hole, but they have plenty of time to fill it. DeShon Elliott was drafted last year and had some supporters pre-draft here if I recall correctly. They have guys that were just waiting for reps behind the LBs/Rushers already on the roster as well.

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

Originally Posted By: Swish

Baker is gonna get landry and obj a 100 catches a piece.

I actually hope not ... dead serious on that ...

Now Chubb and Hunt getting 450 - 500 carries total ... that i’m down with ...

Totally agree on the # of receptions being unlikely. Here's last year's receiving breakdown:

Landry 81
Njoku 56
Johnson 47
Callaway 43
Higgins 39
Chubb 30

That's great distribution by Baker (and yes, I realize he only played in 14 games). With two Alpha receivers I can't imagine one getting 100 catches, let alone two of them. But hey, with a full season, and an air raid philosophy, anything's possible.

And Baker now gets a full off-season, OTAs, and training camp to work with the one's...I'm drooling.

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

Originally Posted By: Swish

Baker is gonna get landry and obj a 100 catches a piece.

I actually hope not ... dead serious on that ...

Now Chubb and Hunt getting 450 - 500 carries total ... that i’m down with ...

I tend to agree with you, not just because I hope we run the ball more but Baker will spread the ball around more.. I'd love Landry and OBJ in the 85-90 catch range with a couple other folks in the 50-60 catch range. What I hope is that OBJ's YPC is about 18.. and Landry is at about 15.. I want that level of explosion from the offense.

Agreed and if our D is better Stopping the run Baker and the O will be on the field more with naturally more plays.

Not to be a wet blanket AND I'm not overly concerned but he's still a sophomore NFL QB with things to learn and rough waters to navigate. The mystique is gone and DCs spent time watching him. He will be fine but there's still chances of bumps in the road. Sorry..

Originally Posted By: 1oldMutt

Not to be a wet blanket AND I'm not overly concerned but he's still a sophomore NFL QB with things to learn and rough waters to navigate. The mystique is gone and DCs spent time watching him. He will be fine but there's still chances of bumps in the road. Sorry..

Right around that bend there is a little place called the playoffs.

I think that's a given this year even if he hiccups a few times. I think he's one mentally tough kid.

Originally Posted By: Swish

hopefully you're correct. im still slightly hesitant because we dont exactly have a good track record of predicting the ravens and steelers demise.

I Don't care about the Ravens or Steelers or for that matter, any other team..

I'm like Freddie,, if they don't wear Brown and Orange, they just don't matter..

I hope Freddie and John and the team just look inside themselves,, don't worry about what anyone else does,, just be the best you can be. Leave everything out there on the field after each game...

with the talent this team has and the talent on the coaching staff, we should win a lot..

Originally Posted By: Swish

i got my mayfield jersey on since 8 am, and it aint coming off today.

Me too.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Originally Posted By: Swish

i got my mayfield jersey on since 8 am, and it aint coming off today.

Me too.

I just went into town to do some things, and people were like Browns! Browns! Go Browns! lol

great time to be a browns fan!

.

Quote:

Glad to see all u negative nancy’s coming around .... wink ....

Gotta trollya, Dawg... strictly for the laffz.
My nephew dropped this on my fb page:

j/c:

I’d say that Silver needs to grow up, but at this point in time, he’s a lost cause.

Man, the hopium out there is scary...

Zeitler is a big hole to fill...Corbett did not show much last season.
Peppers started to come around last year...now he's gone...Earl Thomas would have been the "coup de gra"...can you say cast off Eric Berry?

So two new holes to fill...

Didn't we have a thread about NOT needing anymore receivers? Wasn't it about 20 pages?

Yeah, Dorsey made some headlines with the move...but we seriously helped the Giants out of a bad cap situation...and we should not have relinquished the 4th for a 5th part of the Vernon deal.

Time will tell, hope the ego's can get along...and first time head coach Kitchens can handle it!

Go Browns!

You really should do some research before you say things like we helped the Giants out of a bad cap situation.

Quote:

we should not have relinquished the 4th for a 5th part of the Vernon deal.

And, we get the 4th, they get the 5th.

not surprised. cowherd was popping off at the mouth today as well.

Oh boy..I hope he didn't argue with you

Originally Posted By: SunDawg

Man, the hopium out there is scary...

Zeitler is a big hole to fill...Corbett did not show much last season.
Peppers started to come around last year...now he's gone...Earl Thomas would have been the "coup de gra"...can you say cast off Eric Berry?

So two new holes to fill...

Didn't we have a thread about NOT needing anymore receivers? Wasn't it about 20 pages?

Yeah, Dorsey made some headlines with the move...but we seriously helped the Giants out of a bad cap situation...and we should not have relinquished the 4th for a 5th part of the Vernon deal.

Time will tell, hope the ego's can get along...and first time head coach Kitchens can handle it!

Go Browns!

Are there still holes to fill? Yes, even Dorsey said he doesn't think the Browns are a Super Bowl Champion team yet. There is still work to do. But there is a lot of reason for optimism.

Most NFL analysts are saying the Browns are no longer a laughingstock but actual Division Championship contenders. I can't remember the last time anyone talked about the Browns like that.

Being a Brown's fan has made me cautiously optimistic so I know where you are coming from but my excitement for this team has increased about as much as their chance to win the SB.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Originally Posted By: Swish

i got my mayfield jersey on since 8 am, and it aint coming off today.

Me too.

I just went into town to do some things, and people were like Browns! Browns! Go Browns! lol

On the local radio here in San Diego, just about every time I jump into the car to go somewhere, they are talking about the Browns. It's great!

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

You really should do some research before you say things like we helped the Giants out of a bad cap situation.

SunDawg is from Arizona. Maybe the sun baked his brain.

Originally Posted By: CalDawg

Quote:

we should not have relinquished the 4th for a 5th part of the Vernon deal.

And, we get the 4th, they get the 5th.

Ok, never mind. We were supposed to get 132 in exchange for 155 but apparently this is what happened (I think):

Browns, Giants Alter Zeitler/Vernon Trade

March 13th, 2019 at 11:20am CST by Dallas Robinson

When the Browns and Giants agreed to swap guard Kevin Zeitler and defensive end Olivier Vernon earlier this week, the two clubs also decided to trade draft picks: Cleveland was set to give up a fifth-round pick (No. 155) to New York, while Big Blue send a fourth-round pick (No. 132) to the Browns. Now, following the deal that will send Odell Beckham Jr. to Cleveland, the two teams have agreed to revise the Zeitler/Brown trade.

The pick swap will no longer occur, according to Art Stapleton of NorthJersey.com (Twitter link). Instead, Zeitler will simply be traded straight up for Vernon, while OBJ will go to the Browns in a separate move. However, you can look at both swaps together as such: Beckham and Vernon for Zeitler, Peppers, No. 17 overall and No. 95 overall.

It’s unclear as to why the Giants and Browns have reached this agreement. The return for Beckham has been widely panned, so it’s possible the Giants asked for the Vernon/Zeitler pick swap to be eliminated as something of a face-saving move (although undoing a 23-spot drop in the draft probably isn’t worth all that much).

Link

Originally Posted By: Swish

4500 yards, 47 TD's, 8 picks, 250 yards rushing, 3 TD's. first team all pro, pro bowl, minimum divisional round of the playoffs.

don't argue with me.

I could see a few more picks, but that sounds about right!

My thoughts are that now the real work begins for Dorsey. He over the course of the next few years will need to hit on the draft the FA window is about to close we have quite a few young studs that will need new contracts in the next few years along with Bake too.

That means Dorsey will have to fill out the roster via the draft and he will need to hit on serviceable players that we can get some good years and production out of. I want sustained success and the draft remains the key, IMO.

The FA we have signed along with the players we traded for will have to be replaced eventually and IMO again that can only be done via the draft.

To this point Dorsey has been near flawless and in order to have sustained success he will need to remain so. Oh and I have the utmost confidence he can continue to build on what we have, and he must.

The SB has to be the goal and with a few key picks he can fill out this roster and we can get to the big dance, maybe even this year. I think a team has to get to the playoffs once and almost always they lose the 1st go around from there they gain the experience needed to push thru and win it ALL.

I couldn't be more exited and hopeful. Cruise control is on with Dorsey in the FO.

"To this point Dorsey has been near flawless and in order to have sustained success he will need to remain so."

No he doesnt no GM is flawless. He just needs to hit on a high percentage.

Too bad Landry wears 80 not 15

Originally Posted By: BADdog

"To this point Dorsey has been near flawless and in order to have sustained success he will need to remain so."

No he doesnt no GM is flawless. He just needs to hit on a high percentage.

Exactly.. every GM misses once in a while but if you have a strong team with a talented core, you can survive a miss once in a while..

When you desperately NEED every high draft pick to be great to drag you out of the basement... then every miss is magnified.

Baker can swing it.

I will also say Baker is a better compliment to OBJ.

Eli struggled is many ways. One is lack of ability to extend plays. His 2018 numbers were really pretty good. But I don't believe that they tell the whole story.

OBJ and Eli have played well together. Both have benefited.

Baker plays a different game than Eli. Baker can extend plays while keeping his eyes downfield. He throws very well on the move as well.

Baker has confidence in his ability to fit the ball in small windows.

This will in my opinion start a relationship with Baker that will be incredible to watch.

The other thing is personality. Eli and Baker are two different guys. Eli a long time vet who is very laid back. Baker is not laid back. He is a in your face ultra competitive guy. He plays a different game than Eli.

I see Baker and OBJ really hitting it off.

Did he grab his junk before he went to the dugout?

I'm not at all worried about OBJ becoming disruptive to our O if he starts acting like a diva.

Bake is in charge, he is the leader and only a moron wouldn't follow him.

One of the reasons I was hesitant about embracing the OBJ trade was that I wasn't sure we need him, as good as he is.

Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie

Did he grab his junk before he went to the dugout?

It’s spring training, he just scratched a little.

I know I always do.

Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie

Did he grab his junk before he went to the dugout?

He was adjusting his cup. He's going to dig out some curve balls, too. Always best to be prepared when hard objects are flying at you at over 75 mph

ONe of the better feelings in life...lol

Originally Posted By: Steubenvillian

Quote:

Yes, sir ... And
I think that one can put Callaway in the same light too.

Callaway is the guy being lost in the conversation. He was improving very well at the end of the season. The kid has a lot of talent. Having Beckham on the other side will open a lot of stuff for him.

I took this from a different thread because I have been thinking about this probably more than I should.

Imagine lining up five wide with OBJ, Landry, Callaway, Higgins, and Njoku. How do you cover that?

Or take Higgins off the field and replace him with Chubb. You have to account for all the receivers. Chubb is going to be running against five man fronts.

Or take Chubb off the field and replace him with Hunt and then you have Hunt running against a five man front or with a linebacker on him or Njoku in coverage.

This offense is ridiculous.

we will see what the patriots do.

Baker Mayfield - The Mini-Movie

Best movie I've ever watched LOL Thanks Tulsa

Awesome stuff. Should have won the Oscar.

It's hard to believe that he's our guy. The misery from decades of frustration is so overwhelming, it is just hard to believe we just might have finally got it right.

Yes all of this is hard to believe. I had goosebumps watching that.

I feel like I died, and woke up in some weird alternate universe where the Browns are designed like Madden, and we destroy everybody.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Yes all of this is hard to believe. I had goosebumps watching that.

I feel like I died, and woke up in some weird alternate universe where the Browns are designed like Madden, and we destroy everybody.

Can you imagine what it is going to be like? Cleveland might have to shut down for a week if they made the Superbowl.

Just beat Pittsburgh twice, and I will be in heaven.

"What a long strange trip it's been."

Hard to articulate about how I feel. I have been waiting a long time.

LeBron brought us a Championship. I will always be thankful for that. He gave the city a lift, a spark was ignited.

But Ohio has always been about football. It is no mistake that Hall of Fame is here.

Ignatius High School. Canton McKinley High School. The Ohio State University. The tradition of football here runs deep.

Paul Brown the godfather of modern football and the team that bears his name.

History and tradition. Then it became a joke. It hurt. It hurts to lose. Constant losing kills the the thrill of competition.

Enter John Dorsey. He goes against the grain and takes the smallish quarterback with the first pick.

And man he delivers. Delivers in a huge way. All the "small" talk goes out the window. He sets the record for rookie quarterbacks in 13.5 games.

He does it with it attitude. He plays with aggressive confidence in himself. His teammates do not take long to believe in him. He becomes the leader. Not given. He earns it. He earns their respect by delivering.

Now we got what has been so long in coming. A quarterback and very talented young team thanks to John Dorsey.

Browns fans everywhere now have a real team to be proud of and the quarterback to lead that team.

Bring it.

I really want to win a Super Bowl in the next ten years... not even for me but for my dad... dad's 71 and is a lifelong browns fan... he deserves a chance to see a winner...

I still am cautiously optimistic... hard to get too hyped... but I think this is going to be a special year if baker can stay healthy and focused

"Next 10 years"?

We'll have two in the next five years. We might even have one 11 months from now.

From your keyboard to Gods ears,,,, again... I have battered Browns syndrome and have trouble getting too excited...

Originally Posted By: jaybird

I really want to win a Super Bowl in the next ten years... not even for me but for my dad... dad's 71 and is a lifelong browns fan... he deserves a chance to see a winner...

I still am cautiously optimistic... hard to get too hyped... but I think this is going to be a special year if baker can stay healthy and focused

If we don't get it in five, probably not getting it in ten.

The nice thing is, if we get it within three, we may just get more than one. Exciting times, dad's gonna have to hang out and enjoy them.

Wouldn't it be cool, if a year from now, we are still enjoying our brand new Super Bowl title?

Guys .. I know it all looks good on paper .. but this group hasn't even had a practice together, much less a regular season game. I love the way it looks on paper too .. but I also remember 2008 .. and busting after being 7 - 4 in 2014. Temper the enthusiasm .. Wait for the games, then take them one game at a time.

Quote:

Temper the enthusiasm .. Wait for the games, then take them one game at a time.

Nope. No more wait and see with our fingers crossed. We've been doing that since 1999, and the wins never come. The pieces are in place NOW, the time is NOW. For once...let's go ALL IN! All teams have weak areas, we're never going to have elite players at every position. There's no reason we can't beat the crap out of everyone in our division and go 12-4. GO BROWNS!!!!

I went and read some of the steelers board. I think they are delusional. There is one or two who are realists, while the rest seem to think the tradition of the steelers and tradition of the browns over the past 20 years will still ring true.

Little do they know, at one time they were as bad or worse than we've recently been. I love the term "sleeping giant" because the NFL is going to love that "we're back." And I hope the steelers and their fans are in for a long 10-15 years. It's only fair.

I want the Steelers to have a jersey with 30+ qb's on it.

Personally, I truly prefer the term "waking Giants", er "waking giant" to reference the Browns.

Baker just got dealt a practically pat hand (we hope). Many folks with whom I have spoken have wanted to root for us in past years.

Wake up, y'all.

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

I want the Steelers to have a jersey with 30+ qb's on it.

I want them to have one with 75+ .... and the Ravens to have one with 100+.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

I went and read some of the steelers board. I think they are delusional. There is one or two who are realists, while the rest seem to think the tradition of the steelers and tradition of the browns over the past 20 years will still ring true.

Little do they know, at one time they were as bad or worse than we've recently been. I love the term "sleeping giant" because the NFL is going to love that "we're back." And I hope the steelers and their fans are in for a long 10-15 years. It's only fair.

I have so many relatives that are Steelers fans.

One comment a cousin of mine made that neither Brown or Bell were on the last Superbowl winning team...

My response was that on the last team they had other guys that did the job, They don't have them either.

But you have to admire the confidence they show....

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

I want the Steelers to have a jersey with 30+ qb's on it.

I want them to have one with 75+ .... and the Ravens to have one with 100+.

Actually, I am OK if the Ravens stick w Jackson

Not good at embeding things,, Hope this works,,, cracks me up

Had to remove the link because it didn't work

Guys, if you are on facebook, go to the Taco Truck Community and look for a video featuring look alikes for Mayfield and OBJ.....They are flying on what appears to be a flying carpet....

I sure how someone can figure out how to post it,,,,, great and funny stuff

Maybe this will work

[url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9][url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9][url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9]file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9[/url][/url][/url]

Quote:

But you have to admire the confidence they show....

Yes. I think they'll find out soon that reputation alone won't get you to the playoffs.

The Steelers fans I've talked to have said they are happy we have caught up to them and the rivalry is back... I'm like rivalry be damned. We passed right on by you guys!

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Quote:

But you have to admire the confidence they show....

Yes. I think they'll find out soon that reputation alone won't get you to the playoffs.

The Steelers fans I've talked to have said they are happy we have caught up to them and the rivalry is back... I'm like rivalry be damned. We passed right on by you guys!

I'll be watching for absolute proof of that during the season.... LOL But, on paper, we blew past them

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Not good at embeding things,, Hope this works,,, cracks me up

Had to remove the link because it didn't work

Guys, if you are on facebook, go to the Taco Truck Community and look for a video featuring look alikes for Mayfield and OBJ.....They are flying on what appears to be a flying carpet....

I sure how someone can figure out how to post it,,,,, great and funny stuff

Maybe this will work

[url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9][url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9][url=file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9]file://www./tacotrucktv/videos/396909780858762/?t=9[/url][/url][/url]

Too much

That one was a little creepy. LOL

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

That one was a little creepy. LOL

I couldn’t even sit through half of it.

I know. I exited it very early.

Quote:

I hope the steelers and their fans are in for a long 10-15 years. It's only fair.

It will certainly reveal who the true fans are.

Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

That one was a little creepy. LOL

I couldn’t even sit through half of it.

ditto...lol

Just we come here for Cave men stuff...argghh arggh arggh not a musical - I mean I like Sound Of Music but not on a Football board. Come here for testosterone stuff...

Yeah, that's it....LOL

Okay, that was certainly New York, WAY off Broadway musical unworthy.

Dude, go count some beer cans and tell us what they mean.

Just heard this on CBD.

Baker tweets "Can't wait for football season to get here"

Tony Grossi tweets "You miss us that much?"

Baker tweets, to Tony "Not you, Tony."

I love this guy.

watched it too many times.

and im going to watch it again, and again, and again, until the season starts.

Those throws are so impressive for a rookie.
Is Higgins really our #4 receiver? He could be #2 on many teams hope we dont lose him. How are D's going to defend with OBJ in the mix? Oh yeah we have a running game too! Where are my shades im going to need them

I watch this, and I just shake my head.

I always wondered what a Browns game would look like with competent QB play. I got to see that during Hoyer's mini-run, few years back. Competence looks like that.

This is something very different than mere competence. I can't remember the last time I saw this level of command, moxie, charisma and execution from a rookie. Truth be told- I can't ever remember being this impressed with someone's Freshman year.

This offseason is torture. I almost wanna shut out the hype, but then I remember stuff like "Browns are gonna brown"... and I decide to take in juuuuust a little more, hehehe. It's nice to see these new words coming out of the same holes that used to drag us 24/7.

NFL 2019 season can't get here soon enough.

4 days till OTAs start.

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

4 days till OTAs start.

Baker Mayfield has the best hips of any QB in football. The more I watch, the more I know that this is the most overlooked part of his game. His ability to create torque and velocity through very strong legs and incredible hips helps him overcome inconsistent footwork and a (slightly) less than elite arm. It's also the key element to his success on the move (besides the obvious insane accuracy).

With all that being said, simple fundamentally perfect throws, like the 2yd TD to Calloway against the Steelers (6:17), really show his upside, because those plays are unstoppable.

He's a rookie.

This is going to be so much fun to watch.

Quote:

Baker Mayfield has the best hips of any QB in football. The more I watch, the more I know that this is the most overlooked part of his game.

Good observation.

Just can't stop watching that.

These hips don't lie...

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Just amazing throws...man are we so lucky to make the right move at QB. He's only going to get better.

OL blocked great. What impressed me a lot was that many times we blocked with 7 and still had WRs wide open a lot of times because Baker was incredible in the pocket moving around like he had eyes in the back of his head then throwing a strike to somebody.

Impressive also was Higgins, man does that kid love Baker.

Njoku also, talking about a QB making players around him better. Higgins and Njoku definitely and might as well add Perriman in there also.

We might struggle a bit in the beginning cause of the new playbook??? But man when we get playing like a machine this is going to be so much fun. Better than the Sipe era, better than the Kosar era...got to go back to Otto...man o man!!!

From what I understand is that it is not a "new playbook" but rather additions to the current one. Monken, the first thing he did when he got here was learn our playbook. And then they will add the Air Raid concepts to it...I think they wanted to have some continuity...So I do not believe they are messing too much with terminology and the current plays....just adding more...

IS that not correct?

Originally Posted By: PETE314

From what I understand is that it is not a "new playbook" but rather additions to the current one. Monken, the first thing he did when he got here was learn our playbook. And then they will add the Air Raid concepts to it...I think they wanted to have some continuity...So I do not believe they are messing too much with terminology and the current plays....just adding more...

IS that not correct?

That's correct, as I understand things also.

Sort of what I meant by "???" in the statement of new Playbook.

I just know Kitchen's thought process is big time on different formations to keep teams on their heels and in a befuddled state.

Although I think with Baker at the helm things will come to all easier.

jmho

Originally Posted By: FATE

Baker Mayfield has the best hips of any QB in football...helps him overcome inconsistent footwork and a (slightly) less than elite arm.

Good observation on the hip movement. However, I am not sure I would describe Baker's arm as (slightly) less than elite. He zips the ball in there pretty good to me.

Elite QB's don't need an elite arm, and a elite arm doesn't make a QB elite.

Bakers arm is plenty good. We can be happy with that and let others complain because they are going to complain about something.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Elite QB's don't need an elite arm, and a elite arm doesn't make a QB elite.

Bakers arm is plenty good. We can be happy with that and let others complain because they are going to complain about something.

This. Baker can make all the throws, and do it with great accuracy.
He can fit a ball in a tighter window at exactly the right place for the receiver better than any QB I have ever seen.
And he can do it on long throws. Long throws!!!
I don't know what else you need to be an "elite arm".
If an "elite arm" is something different, then I choose Baker's arm.

Quote:

He can fit a ball in a tighter window at exactly the right place for the receiver better than any QB I have ever seen.

3 people liked that. LOL

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Quote:

He can fit a ball in a tighter window at exactly the right place for the receiver better than any QB I have ever seen.

3 people liked that. LOL

Kosar was as good as I have seen. Very Accurate with ball placement.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Quote:

He can fit a ball in a tighter window at exactly the right place for the receiver better than any QB I have ever seen.

3 people liked that. LOL

I hit like because of her last sentence. You really seem to get into who likes whose posts on these boards.

And you really seem to like to point out that I point out who likes posts. LOL

All I'm saying is that while Baker is accurate most of the time, he isn't the most accurate passer ever. Sheesh!

If you don't think he is now, you will by the end of next season.
Move over Brady, Baker is gonna be the GOAT.

jfan will "like" that post.

I don't want to dim anyone's enthusiasm for Baker.

However, I do think one has to have a sense of football history.

There have been many great quarterbacks like Otto Graham who most have never seen. Let alone the many from the modern era.

To claim Baker is or will be the greatest of all time is a bit much after one season in the league. Let's refresh our memory on what Mahomes just did. Not even to mention Brady.

How about we see him play for at least ten years?

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Let's refresh our memory on what Mahomes just did.

In the college shoot out Baker won

Well, I'm sure there have been great QBs in history.
And they are deservedly in the HOF.

I havent ever seen Otto Graham play.

I just know that I have to listen to people all the time saying Brady is the GOAT. Endlessly in my ear about it. Wherever I go.

I already know that Baker is superior. Because Brady is a product of a system. And Baker is a product of himself.

Don't doubt. Just believe. Or watch and see.

He just won the MVP.

My guess is he beats out Stanton for 2nd string QB again.

Well, possibly one or more elite receivers, like great players make great coaches. Well, greater, I guess. Some tall expectations here. He doesn't need to beat people single-handedly anymore. Different than when our only offensive threat was Dawson who needed to kick about FGs to keep our defense in a win.

BM makes his people around him better, and it seems reciprocal. That chemistry is here. And the mojo should get stronger.

Unleash the Elf! It is a new day.

Make that 4, I don't know why you insist on dissing those who praise Baker then complain and state without proof that if you post some thing less then praise you will receive disrespectful posts.

Don't you see the hypocrisy in your post

3 people liked that. LOL

We get it, this was not your guy, as a Browns fan you are pleasantly pleased with his first season. But come down on anyone suggesting he is a GREAT QB.

I'm telling you here and now the kid can be one of the GREATEST EVER! I've never seen a young man come into the league with the ACCURACY, Pocket feel, Arm Strength, Touch and at this young age go through progression, make time with movement. Have the belief of his peers and is a born LEADER.

Now go and tell me how wrong I am. smh

j/c

Baker had a great rookie season. He has the potential to be a great QB. He has all the qualities you look for in a great QB. But to claim he will be the GOAT after just his rookie season is nothing based in reality. Maybe during wine thirty, but otherwise it's a projection that is a lofty goal based on hope he'll continue on a straight trajectory to the top.

I'm sure it's something we all hope for. I'm sure it's a possibility we all wish to see happen. But to claim that as what is going to happen without any doubt is a huge leap of faith and a lot of alcohol.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

j/c

Baker had a great rookie season. He has the potential to be a great QB. He has all the qualities you look for in a great QB. But to claim he will be the GOAT after just his rookie season is nothing based in reality. Maybe during wine thirty, but otherwise it's a projection that is a lofty goal based on hope he'll continue on a straight trajectory to the top.

I'm sure it's something we all hope for. I'm sure it's a possibility we all wish to see happen. But to claim that as what is going to happen without any doubt is a huge leap of faith and a lot of alcohol.

I think he hits a few more bumps in the road just because he now will be seriously prepared for.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

j/c

Baker had a great rookie season. He has the potential to be a great QB. He has all the qualities you look for in a great QB. But to claim he will be the GOAT after just his rookie season is nothing based in reality. Maybe during wine thirty, but otherwise it's a projection that is a lofty goal based on hope he'll continue on a straight trajectory to the top.

I'm sure it's something we all hope for. I'm sure it's a possibility we all wish to see happen. But to claim that as what is going to happen without any doubt is a huge leap of faith and a lot of alcohol.

Agreed. My guess is Raiders fans felt the same way after Derek Carr’s first two seasons... I wonder what they think now?

I think Carr will be fine. I'm curious to see what he'll do with AB. I think they're poised to be very good when they finally move to Vegas.

I don't get the knock on Mayfield's accuracy. He throws 20 passes on the mark and everyone is talking about the one pass that sailed over the head of the receiver when he was rushed from the pocket. Most of his INTs weren't off the mark, they were passes where his receiver could catch the ball but they just didn't, or he underestimated the defender. He was a rookie. Those are things you learn. Heck Manning threw something like 29 INTs his rookie campaign.

And not that it matters, but Carr was a 2nd round pick and Mayfield the #1 pick overall. I think some people hang on to their own assessments too much and too long. Sure, Dorsey gets credit for picking Mayfield, but those who think it was a reach and are still shocked Dorsey picked him should realize that Mayfield was the best quarterback prospect in last year's draft. It was a no-brainer.

Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

j/c

Baker had a great rookie season. He has the potential to be a great QB. He has all the qualities you look for in a great QB. But to claim he will be the GOAT after just his rookie season is nothing based in reality. Maybe during wine thirty, but otherwise it's a projection that is a lofty goal based on hope he'll continue on a straight trajectory to the top.

I'm sure it's something we all hope for. I'm sure it's a possibility we all wish to see happen. But to claim that as what is going to happen without any doubt is a huge leap of faith and a lot of alcohol.

Agreed. My guess is Raiders fans felt the same way after Derek Carr’s first two seasons... I wonder what they think now?

I think a year from today we will see 'Raiders Fans' replaced by 'Eagles' fans in that statement above.

I quoted a specific comment.

The draft is over. I moved on from it immediately. I have praised Baker over and over for the things he does well.

I'm sorry if you don't like me questioning a statement that he is the most accurate qb ever or that he is the GOAT.

Quote:

I don't get the knock on Mayfield's accuracy. He throws 20 passes on the mark and everyone is talking about the one pass that sailed over the head of the receiver when he was rushed from the pocket.

That is so far from the truth. It's like it's against the law to try and be objective about Baker's game on this board.

Just being Browns fans, everything is over the top- best ever, worst thing that could happen. Fact, Baker Mayfield has just over half season in NFL- he did well, but who's to know how this all works out- example Johnny Manziel, H trophy winner, was going to wreck the league, except he got hurt running out of bounds,etc.etc.-the league studies these guys to the N degree, lets see how he does this year- HIS FIRST possible full season....GO Browns!!!!

I think Baker had an outstanding rookie year. I just wrote a breakdown him this past week in the thread where he and the other dudes were working out.

I'm just saying that to proclaim him as the GOAT and being the most accurate qb ever is over the top. And for pointing that out in what I thought was a humorous manner, I get called a hypocrite and character concerns are brought up.

nitpicking, but it was about 80% of a season... I'm not sure I'd call it "just over half." But that's me.

I don't have issues with questioning Baker's game. I don't think accuracy is an area to question, however. The most accurate quarterback in the league today could probably stand to improve accuracy, so yes, it's an area all quarterbacks could improve. Tiger was the best golfer in the world and he constantly worked on his game.

I guess I should be overjoyed we're discussing how Baker could stand to improve his accuracy, an area where he already excels and is probably top 10 in the league. If this is what we think Baker needs to improve most, then we already have an overall great quarterback.

Alright device........you and I have been "cool" the last few weeks are so. Thus, let me be very clear.

I think Baker has exceptional accuracy. Some of his throws amaze me by how accurate they are. I saw him make an off-balance throw last year and hit Duke in stride. I mean...it was a perfect throw.

I'm just saying it's pretty crazy to say he is the most accurate qb someone has "ever" seen or is the "GOAT."

With that said, I did question his accuracy "at times." I remember watching games last year and see brilliant accuracy and then seeing some throws that were off. My background made me want to the know the "why" of it. That is when I noticed the front foot thing that I mentioned in the other thread. I don't think it's a huge thing, but I think it can help him. That's all.

I do want to reiterate that I think Baker is a very accurate passer overall.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Quote:

I don't get the knock on Mayfield's accuracy. He throws 20 passes on the mark and everyone is talking about the one pass that sailed over the head of the receiver when he was rushed from the pocket.

That is so far from the truth. It's like it's against the law to try and be objective about Baker's game on this board.

Being objective is peachy. Your brand of objectivity is an acquired taste, though, and it isn't for everyone.

...I'm trying to state this in an objective way and am not casting judgment.

I don't always agree with you, but I'm pretty sure I'd find the boards a lot less insightful without you...even if you do occasionally drive me bonkers.

I do agree with you in this instance.

Baker is a QB whose sum seems to be greater than the parts. All the hyperbole about individual traits can get a little ridiculous.

Hue's Pied Piper reference seems pretty apt. Baker just seems to bring all the parts together.

Fair enough...

I haven't called Baker the GOAT (not yet anyway

) and the only thing I've said is that Baker is the most accurate passer I've seen in a Browns uniform.

We can't really quantify accuracy, but without knowing I would bet he's one of the top 10 accurate passers in the league. Does he still need to work on accuracy? Sure, I'm good with that.

For me, if there's anything I want Baker to work on it's more of his reads. He was pretty good, maybe not great... and I don't necessarily want him to find the open underneath guy, I want him to watch the defense and learn how to coax them into being where he's not planning on throwing.

I think his ability to pass is part of the reason he was drafted #1. I don't think he had many mechanical flaws if any... again, that's just my opinion.

devise.......I never implied you said that. I actually quoted the poster who made that claim. The responses since then have included me being a "perv," and hypocritical.

I see what you did there. LOL.

It would be funny if I meant it and perhaps it still is, but it was an accident.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

devise.......I never implied you said that. I actually quoted the poster who made that claim. The responses since then have included me being a "perv," and hypocritical.

Does it really bug you so much that people agree with me?

Of course not. It bugs me that me saying that Baker is not the GOAT and the most accurate qb ever is resulting in insults and a twisting of my words.

It's how many of y'all roll, though.

Well, I'm sorry that you have been having a tanty about it all day. You will have to remove the stick yourself as I have better things to do.

There you go again. You called me a "perv" because I disagreed w/you and now it's more insults.

Because you have obsessed all day and I have been ignoring it.

Baker had a good rookie season and the Browns are not looking for their starting QB.

That is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am happy to watch this play out...

The bs in this thread is ripe.

really no biggy and I cringed after I wrote that cause I really enjoy talking football with you. But you have always stated how posters come at you and insult you if you put up a counter opinion. I saw a poster getting excited about the best QB prospect in quite some time. And 3 posters like it...and you slammed them. Like they don't have the right to their opinion...only you? If you don't get it. Then forget about it.
Just don't whine any more about posters attacking you for stating your opinion...when you don't give them that same respect that you wish to be given you.

So anyways, if baker puts those numbers up, we’re gonna have the best record in the league.

13-3. Don’t argue.

jc -

I don't think it's that implausible to see a scenario where Baker ends up being the better QB than Mahomes.

j/c

A couple things come to mind when thinking about defenses adjusting to stop Baker:

I recollect two games where Baker really struggled in the first half. One was Houston...can't remember the other. Houston dropped their LBs a little differently and took something away in the first half. After halftime though, the Browns adjusted and Baker was flying again. Was that a Freddie thing? A Baker thing? A combo thing?

Baker played against the Bengals and Ravens twice each. Neither opponent managed to adjust to Baker enough to make a difference. Baker lit up the stat sheet against the vaunted Ravens defense like no other QB in 2018...twice. Baker was one inexplicably-blown whistle away from sweeping those two teams.

I'm NOT saying teams will not be able to adjust to Baker going forward. But he is off to an impressive start.

I don't think Baker lit up the Ravens twice. He had 4 TDs and 4 Interceptions against them in the two games. His completion percentage 58.1 and 54.8. The team scored only 13 points in the first game. It was the defense that won that game.

I think the team that defended Baker the best was the Chargers. They kept him in the pocket and dropped linebackers over the middle. Baker had a hard time seeing downfield. His completion percentage was 47.8 w/1 TD and 2 picks. He was also sacked 5 times as he held the ball a long time because he was having trouble locating receivers.

I also thought he struggled against Denver, given that all but one of their corners were injured and they were playing safeties at corner. His QBR was only 43.5 that game.

I thought Baker's best game was the first time they played against the Bengals. He had 4 TDs and 0 picks. Put up 35 points. Completed over 73 percent of his passes. Completely dissected their D.

I was just looking at his year-long stats. Baker was 17th in yards and 11th in TDs. Both of those are impressive given that he didn't play in two games. However, he was tied for 27th in interceptions which isn't good considering he did not play in 2 games and his QBR was 23rd.

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature. The latter was second in yards, 1st in TDs, Tied for 20th in picks, and 1st in QBR.

Quote:

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.

Bit of a slow period in the NFL with the bulk of free agency over and the draft something like 3 weeks away.

...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".

I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes.

Originally Posted By: mac

Quote:

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.

Bit of a slow period in the NFL with the bulk of free agency over and the draft something like 3 weeks away.

...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".

I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes.

We are not waiting for the next season, We are Chomping at the bit for the next season!

Originally Posted By: eotab

Just don't whine any more about posters attacking you for stating your opinion...when you don't give them that same respect that you wish to be given you.

That's rich considering the source.

Originally Posted By: mac

Quote:

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.

Bit of a slow period in the NFL with the bulk of free agency over and the draft something like 3 weeks away.

...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".

I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes.

For me, the comparisons are not premature. I mean it's not like mahomes has been in the league for years. Mahomes has played in 17 regular season games for a team that previously went to the playoffs. Baker has played 13 games for a team that won zero games the year prior. 17 games vs 13 games isn't premature. If you're going to call the assessments on Baker premature then you must do so for Mahomes.

Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes.

I understand the cautious optimism from Browns fans...because, well, we are Browns fans, but I already know what we have at quarterback. I can tell you today that our quarterback is every bit as good as the one in Kansas city and that's not premature.

This will be an interesting year for some because our team is now more talented than the Chiefs. I would expect Baker to throw for over 40 TDs this upcoming season. And that's not really a guess because the tape says Baker is actually that good.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I don't think Baker lit up the Ravens twice. He had 4 TDs and 4 Interceptions against them in the two games. His completion percentage 58.1 and 54.8. The team scored only 13 points in the first game. It was the defense that won that game.

I think the team that defended Baker the best was the Chargers. They kept him in the pocket and dropped linebackers over the middle. Baker had a hard time seeing downfield. His completion percentage was 47.8 w/1 TD and 2 picks. He was also sacked 5 times as he held the ball a long time because he was having trouble locating receivers.

I also thought he struggled against Denver, given that all but one of their corners were injured and they were playing safeties at corner. His QBR was only 43.5 that game.

I thought Baker's best game was the first time they played against the Bengals. He had 4 TDs and 0 picks. Put up 35 points. Completed over 73 percent of his passes. Completely dissected their D.

I was just looking at his year-long stats. Baker was 17th in yards and 11th in TDs. Both of those are impressive given that he didn't play in two games. However, he was tied for 27th in interceptions which isn't good considering he did not play in 2 games and his QBR was 23rd.

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature. The latter was second in yards, 1st in TDs, Tied for 20th in picks, and 1st in QBR.

Baker had 342 yards passing against the Ravens in the first game. More importantly, his team won.

Baker had 376 yards passing in the second Ravens game. The premature whistle cost them that game.

Ben R had 274 & 270 against the Ravens. His team also split with the Ravens.

Other teams passing yards vs the Ravens in 2018:

Buffalo = 70
Cincy = 265
Denver = 192
Tennessee = 51
New Orleans = 212
Carolina = 232
Cincy = 207
Oakland = 182
Atlanta = 97
Kansas City = 348
Tampa Bay = 156
San Diego = 147

Interesting that the only other QB to go for 300 is Mahomes. There were some darn good/great QBs whose stats didn't sniff Baker's against the Ravens.

You are correct that San Diego is the other team that Baker really struggled against. We were outmatched all over the field in that game. Our defense gave up some huge play sin the first half. Baker with a great one minute drive to get a FG. His early Q3 pick essentially ended the game for us. San Diego went to the AFC Championship game for a very good reason.

FWIW: Rivers threw for 160 in the victory over the Ravens to go the AFC Championship game.

The Ravens also allowed a total of 20 TD passes over 16 games, and 20% (4) of those were thrown by Baker Mayfield.

Never mind....

You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.

All I am saying is that the Ravens allowed 20 pass TDs for the season, ans Baker threw 4 of those in 2 games.

The Ravens defense did a great job of confusing a lot of QBs last year. For a rookie, especially, I think that Baker did a great job.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Never mind....

You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.

Your actions - and over-reactions - to much that is Baker-positive is very telling.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes.

I drafted Mahomes and Hill in fantasy and rode them all season.

I'm not sure I thought MVP, but I definitely thought he had a ton of upside.

He was my QB that draft. It seems to have worked out pretty well for Mahomes and the Browns that Hue didn't get his hands on him at 12. Even if it did take an extra year.

Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Never mind....

You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.

Your actions - and over-reactions - to much that is Baker-positive is very telling.

Your need to post that is also "very telling." *shrug*

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

All I am saying is that the Ravens allowed 20 pass TDs for the season, ans Baker threw 4 of those in 2 games.

The Ravens defense did a great job of confusing a lot of QBs last year. For a rookie, especially, I think that Baker did a great job.

the problem with stats is that you're not telling the whole story.

stating that the ravens allowed 20 TD passes, and baker had 4 of them sounds really good.

but i can play that game too. how?

the ravens only had 12 ints for the year. 4 of them? they got from Baker mayfield, thats 33%.

so baker had 20% of TD's allowed by the ravens, but 33% of the int the ravens had the entire season.

slow your roll.

Baker Mayfield had 50% of the OT wins against the Ravens... Mahomes had the other 50%.

baker mayfield has 100% support of browns fans. only stat this offseason i care about.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Never mind....

You guys are right. Baker "lit-up" the Ravens and is perfect in every way.

[quote]the ravens only had 12 ints for the year. 4 of them? they got from Baker mayfield, thats 33%.

so baker had 20% of TD's allowed by the ravens, but 33% of the int the ravens had the entire season. /quote]

That stat is a fair statement, as well. They did get to Baker more than any other QB. He was a rookie, and their defense took advantage of that fact as well.

YTown, I like you and I don't want to get into it w/you..........but, the stat you posted and the ones another poster posted showed only isolated stats. I tried to show both positive and negative stats to show a more complete picture.

It seems to me that you guys want to win an argument than have a true conversation. Several posters "liked" your posts and take a look at who they are. The only one who surprises me is Homes. He is usually very objective.

With that said, I will leave the thread because once again........a rational conversation is not going to happen where we examine all the facts. Selected stats while ignoring others is simply a device to win an argument and is polar to honest debate. And I refuse to just post the negative stats to win an argument. I was interested in a rational and honest discussion. It's not going to happen.

Congratulations.........you guys win!

I suppose it was only a matter of time before you made things personal... I have a hunch that you really won.

jc...

Those Browns fans that want to dream and speculate based on past performances...DREAM ON.

No one can take your dreams away...and I hope every dream comes true.

What I've noticed in my many years as a football fan..as a Browns fan..in reality, last year's performance means nothing when projecting future performances for the upcoming season.

But hey, that's just me...

DREAM ON, Browns fans!

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Originally Posted By: mac

Quote:

The comparisons to Mahomes are premature.

Bit of a slow period in the NFL with the bulk of free agency over and the draft something like 3 weeks away.

...nothing better for some Browns fans to do than "dream and speculate".

I'll wait for the real stuff, when the real games begin. But, this dreaming about the upcoming season is sure a change for Browns fans. What a difference a year makes.

For me, the comparisons are not premature. I mean it's not like mahomes has been in the league for years. Mahomes has played in 17 regular season games for a team that previously went to the playoffs. Baker has played 13 games for a team that won zero games the year prior. 17 games vs 13 games isn't premature. If you're going to call the assessments on Baker premature then you must do so for Mahomes.

Im going to guess no one here predicted Mahomes' MVP season before last season. In fact, I'd bet many have said the chiefs were crazy to trade Smith and hand the reigns to Mahomes.

I understand the cautious optimism from Browns fans...because, well, we are Browns fans, but I already know what we have at quarterback. I can tell you today that our quarterback is every bit as good as the one in Kansas city and that's not premature.

This will be an interesting year for some because our team is now more talented than the Chiefs. I would expect Baker to throw for over 40 TDs this upcoming season. And that's not really a guess because the tape says Baker is actually that good.

I am curious to see Mahommes with a bad coach and bad surrounding players. We saw Mayfield still look good with each, and we will now see Mayfield with superior talent.

I don't think you can compare the two from last year, because the situations they were in (particularly with hue, then an interim coach, and with FAR less talent). I think a lot of posters forget the cluster crap that baker was thrown into, and how he responded. to me, that gives a lot of weight on his side of the scale.

Mahommes was in the perfect situation, Mayfield was in the worst.

There really isn't much of a chess piece adjustment for Baker - as the norm really like Brady the game plan will be to hit Baker and hit him often! But X's and O's as a rookie he adjusted to them. Its only going to come quicker as he recognizes what Defense are doing via gained experience.

I think you can compare the two, you just have to take their situations into consideration. KC had deep threats in Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins. They had Hunt (half the season) and Kelce... they were loaded. We didn't have a deep threat after we traded away Gordon.

It's just interesting because the same fans who would say that the Browns lacked weapons on offense because the previous regime sucked are telling others to cool their jets on Mayfield. Given the circumstances, Mayfield has a spectacular season. Imagine if Mayfield was with the Chiefs and we had Mahomes. Would we have passed for 50 TDs? Would Mayfield have only 27 TD passes? Who knows, but a lot of things matter...

#Feedthebias

There's just no way to tell. There's no way to know what "might have been". So anything said isn't actually a comparison. It's pure speculation with nothing to base it on. Those aren't the same thing.

I'm not comparing what might have been... I'm comparing the two quarterbacks and their situations. I couldn't tell you what Mahomes would do here, nor would I want to speculate on that. I'm saying you can't compare them at face value.

In my opinion because of the situations, Mayfield and Mahomes both had great seasons. And I'm not alone.

Well i agree with that. That's just not the conclusion I came to in reading what you had posted.

Baker did great considering all the circumstances he had to play under. There's no doubt about that. It just seemed like you were trying to indicate what the two may have done had the roles been reversed. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Vers's commentary on Baker has always been very fair. It's only the usual suspects who get their back up when he's even slightly critical of Mayfield.

Thanks lamp.

Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.

Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season?

Let it go, bro. I'm out of this thread. I just wanted to say thanks.

We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not.

Originally Posted By: lampdogg

Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.

Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season?

Well, actually, someone could make a strong case that Baker was the best rookie quarterback ever.

What you are talking about isn't what we were talking about.

Ok, chief.

Originally Posted By: lampdogg

Yeah no problem. Eotab would get on your ass if you even suggest baker has an acne problem.

Eve is a fun poster, but does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season?

Well, apparently Baker is the Best Rookie QB EVER at most passing TDs. And he didnt even play a full season.

Give him time, he'll break some more records next season. To add to the new browns jersey listing "Best Ever..."

Originally Posted By: lampdogg

does anyone buy the notion that Baker is the best ever at anything, after one season?

He is the best rookie ever at throwing TD passes...

I guess it would help if I read other posts....LOL

Originally Posted By: lampdogg

We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not.

I'm not sure I understand why we can't both support a player and also point out areas where they need improvement.. I mean, it's not like any player thinks they are a finished product... Everybody has ways they can improve...

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Originally Posted By: lampdogg

We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not.

I'm not sure I understand why we can't both support a player and also point out areas where they need improvement.. I mean, it's not like any player thinks they are a finished product... Everybody has ways they can improve...

Which is the point some are trying to make.

Baker Putter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0WCBalDEdQ

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Baker Putter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0WCBalDEdQ

DO NOT GIVE HIM ANYTHING TO THROW AT GUYS WARMING UP IN THE ENDZONE!

j/c:

I'm sure this video is on many threads but it is just too much fun watching Baker Mayfield highlights.

Another Baker highlight vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmex2IF5XPk

I can't get enough of that either.. I could watch that everyday until he puts up some new highlights.

I think we are forgetting a guy like Willies. I know we didn't see much of him but that one catch and run in the middle of the vid sure makes it appear that he's one to watch..

If Baker is what we saw in year one, we are going to see quite a few guys like Willies over the next 10 seasons. Baker is a point guard and guys are going to get the ball, they need to be ready.

I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.

It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...

We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...

Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.

j/c:

Does anyone remember when posters were not allowed to post rumors and make things up? The board was so much better w/those rules in place.

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

Originally Posted By: Nelson37

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!

pit, I think you are being facetious but in a very real sense there is something to what you said. we are on the precipice of what may be a really great run in no small part because of 1-31. going thru those two years was miserable. no fun at all for two full seasons. but because of that we have Garrett, we have baker, we have ward. We have a lot of young talent.

if we had gone oh , 4-12 or 5-11 those two seasons we would not be as loaded as we are now and we would not be looking forward with the same anticipation. I hated those two seasons but they may make the next few years really enjoyable.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: Nelson37

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!

Hue's poor coaching certainly helped, but with the assets we had, we probably would have traded up from 3 or 4 with the Giants to get Baker. They were obviously hung up on Barkley. I'd say Hue is responsible for Ward not Mayfield.

Originally Posted By: keithfromxenia

pit, I think you are being facetious but in a very real sense there is something to what you said. we are on the precipice of what may be a really great run in no small part because of 1-31. going thru those two years was miserable. no fun at all for two full seasons. but because of that we have Garrett, we have baker, we have ward. We have a lot of young talent.

if we had gone oh , 4-12 or 5-11 those two seasons we would not be as loaded as we are now and we would not be looking forward with the same anticipation. I hated those two seasons but they may make the next few years really enjoyable.

It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...

We could have a vastly different look.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: Nelson37

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!

Thank you Hue Jackson, tank driver extraordinaire.

I know one thing for sure-- as long as Baker Mayfield is our quarterback, the Browns aren't ever going to pick first (not without exceptional luck anyway, e.g. a 'future first' from a team that implodes.)

It'll be exciting to watch how Baker progresses into year two. That's often a big jump for quarterbacks as they get more comfortable, the game slows down, etc. He'll have a full off-season of work with the ones behind him. There's a plethora of talent around him and the Browns figure to add more in 10-12 days.

It's an exciting time to be a Browns fan.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

j/c:

Does anyone remember when posters were not allowed to post rumors and make things up? The board was so much better w/those rules in place.

I miss it, too, but the board was impossible to moderate to that level anymore. Given the rise of Twitface, Facespace, and other social media platforms and the "look at me, I'm first with news" factor that pervades everything, there just wasn't enough energy to moderate it. Then, when we factored in that folks can decide for themselves whether or not to believe what's on the internet, it made sense to stop fighting the current.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.

It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...

We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...

Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.

Have said / who said / he said / she said...

Analytics, no analytics, didn't matter... Baker was going #1 overall.

If there were no computers and "analytics" consisted of scout's notes scratched on a legal pad - Baker was going #1. If there were no interviews, no whiteboard, no combine... based on analytics alone - Baker was going #1. The endless arguing is resembling "what came first - the chicken or the egg?"

Anyone who thinks Dorsey doesn't make use of advanced analytics is a fool. I don't care what he said in a sound byte. Analytics is a tool, the weight a GM places on them is the litmus test. He may place less weight on analytics because he trusts his instincts, eye test and can stare through a prospects soul in an interview, but he's not dumb enough to think the numbers don't matter.

Anyone who thinks Dorsey would go all in based on great analytics if he didn't like the guy, the prospect didn't perform well in interviews or on the whiteboard... is also a fool. He's not going to throw away decades of experience in reading players because some "nerd" says he can't throw the deep ball with accuracy to the right side of the field or ranks third in passes over the middle against a rush. So even if Baker fell short of the other prospects, Dorsey's heart and mind said "he's my guy".

Three things prevented a pre-draft love affair with Baker from everyone in the NFL.

1. The quality of the "crop" with the 4-6 other NFL quality QBs

2. The maturity issues that were played over and over every time you turned on ESPN.

3. Lastly, but most importantly... John Dorsey's masterful job of throwing up the smokescreen. John had half the league thinking he was drafting Josh Allen and the other half thinking it was Darnold. GMs kept hush-hush (for the most part) in their praise of Baker, in the hopes that he would be there after #1, and they may have a chance to go up and get him.

He wasn't solely an analytics pick, he wasn't solely a football pick... he was the best of both worlds. Dorsey knew it from day one and started the smokescreen to keep the rest of the world guessing.

Edited to add:

Oh, yeah, 4 things... I forgot he was too short to play ball in the NFL. You know, because you had to stack Johnny Manziel's money phone on his head to bring him up to Aaron Rodger's height.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...

We could have a vastly different look.

We "could have". But look at all the QB decisions that we missed on or simply refused to take. I don't feel that a hypothetical revisionist history lesson is in any way going to change the position we were in when we were in it. I have to use the old saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda didn't". We have no clue who would have been selected in some hypothetical. We have no way to know if a team would have given up the #1 selection for the picks we may have offered.

I mean if Germany had won WW2 we would all be speaking German. But they didn't and we aren't.

I understand, Purp. I wasn't blaming you guys. I just wish some of our posters would be more responsible and not resort to such underhanded tactics.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...

We could have a vastly different look.

We "could have". But look at all the QB decisions that we missed on or simply refused to take. I don't feel that a hypothetical revisionist history lesson is in any way going to change the position we were in when we were in it. I have to use the old saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda didn't". We have no clue who would have been selected in some hypothetical. We have no way to know if a team would have given up the #1 selection for the picks we may have offered.

I mean if Germany had won WW2 we would all be speaking German. But they didn't and we aren't.

I think you've misinterpreted my post or you're trying to be argumentative. I couldn't care less about the what ifs. I'm stoked and grateful things have worked out to where we are right now. Of course the "could have" is speculation. That's the whole point. If you don't like the conversation, you can skip right on by... you certainly don't have to try to explain things I already know... but thanks anyway.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I understand, Purp. I wasn't blaming you guys. I just wish some of our posters would be more responsible and not resort to such underhanded tactics.

Agreed.

From reading your post I wasn't sure of its intent. I was simply posting my opinion of it. I do understand in some cases that's frowned upon.

You're right. I apologize. I took your post as an attempt to belittle mine. As much as I accuse you of misinterpreting the post, I did the same.

Opinions are fine. I've never frowned upon opinions as some have.

I just love his footwork within the pocket. I cannot remember a QB with that skill I mean he did it several times a game the best part was the accuracy he had on most of those throws...smh

Man he is sooooo good. Again not to be redundant but we are so lucky!

Originally Posted By: FATE

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.

It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...

We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...

Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.

Have said / who said / he said / she said...

Analytics, no analytics, didn't matter... Baker was going #1 overall.

If there were no computers and "analytics" consisted of scout's notes scratched on a legal pad - Baker was going #1. If there were no interviews, no whiteboard, no combine... based on analytics alone - Baker was going #1. The endless arguing is resembling "what came first - the chicken or the egg?"

Anyone who thinks Dorsey doesn't make use of advanced analytics is a fool. I don't care what he said in a sound byte. Analytics is a tool, the weight a GM places on them is the litmus test. He may place less weight on analytics because he trusts his instincts, eye test and can stare through a prospects soul in an interview, but he's not dumb enough to think the numbers don't matter.

Anyone who thinks Dorsey would go all in based on great analytics if he didn't like the guy, the prospect didn't perform well in interviews or on the whiteboard... is also a fool. He's not going to throw away decades of experience in reading players because some "nerd" says he can't throw the deep ball with accuracy to the right side of the field or ranks third in passes over the middle against a rush. So even if Baker fell short of the other prospects, Dorsey's heart and mind said "he's my guy".

Three things prevented a pre-draft love affair with Baker from everyone in the NFL.

1. The quality of the "crop" with the 4-6 other NFL quality QBs

2. The maturity issues that were played over and over every time you turned on ESPN.

3. Lastly, but most importantly... John Dorsey's masterful job of throwing up the smokescreen. John had half the league thinking he was drafting Josh Allen and the other half thinking it was Darnold. GMs kept hush-hush (for the most part) in their praise of Baker, in the hopes that he would be there after #1, and they may have a chance to go up and get him.

He wasn't solely an analytics pick, he wasn't solely a football pick... he was the best of both worlds. Dorsey knew it from day one and started the smokescreen to keep the rest of the world guessing.

Edited to add:

Oh, yeah, 4 things... I forgot he was too short to play ball in the NFL. You know, because you had to stack Johnny Manziel's money phone on his head to bring him up to Aaron Rodger's height.

Add 5 and 6.

5 Height
6 Oklahoma offense.

WHO CARES NOW. HE'S OURS.......

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I understand, Purp. I wasn't blaming you guys. I just wish some of our posters would be more responsible and not resort to such underhanded tactics.

Give yourself a break.

You haven't turned this thread into a Sashi thread, so you have that going for you.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: Nelson37

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!

While I agree that Hue sucking to epic proportions (the likes of which have never been witnessed before) played a huge role in us getting the #1 pick, there were other contributing factors. Like Jimmy Haslam allowing Hue to remain in place to complete the job, and Sashi Brown acting like he knew what he was doing evaluating talent.

Originally Posted By: jfanent

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: Nelson37

Hue Jackson sucked then, too.

And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!

While I agree that Hue sucking to epic proportions (the likes of which have never been witnessed before) played a huge role in us getting the #1 pick, there were other contributing factors. Like Jimmy Haslam allowing Hue to remain in place to complete the job, and Sashi Brown acting like he knew what he was doing evaluating talent.

He did evaluate McCarron better than other members of the Browns.

Well, you're right about that. It's a good thing Sashi botched that trade, or McCarron would have won us too many games to get that #1 pick.

Originally Posted By: jfanent

Well, you're right about that. It's a good thing Sashi botched that trade, or McCarron would have won us too many games to get that #1 pick.

Believe it or not, that is probably true. AJ was better than Kizer and knew Hues offense. We might have won a couple games and fallen out of the # 1 spot.

Strange but probably true....

JMHO

Now this thread is exactly what I was expecting. Arrived about half a year earlier than I thought it would.

Go Browns!!!

I laugh every time when he calls Orson Charles a freaking pyscho....

Just fun stuff.

you are not wrong . To put Baker up as the GOAT or even the next in line is very very premature. He's played one season. yes the prospects look good , however one acl or snapped leg can wash that away quick. How many injured players dropped off the chart after an injury. Also there's a book on Baker now so things will be a little tougher this year. I have faith if the football gods look down favorably, Baker has the ability to do all the things people claim ,but the GOAT, and most accurate, we'll see

In a rookie season for the ages – Baker Mayfield threw the 6th-most deep pass touchdowns last year

https://twitter.com/PFF_Fantasy/status/1120685762448691200

and that makes him the GOAT of what? rookie QBs

No, it means he threw 11 TDs from 20+ yard passes. That's really good.

and your point is? I don't think anyone is denying he had a great year , but to anoint him the GOAT or heir-apparent GOAT, or the most accurate passer in the league would be quite far fetched. Don't get me wrong I hope he becomes all of the above , but he aint there yet

Well, he is currently the rookie goat.

Now things get a little more difficult.

I am ... GROAT

Originally Posted By: bonitadawg

and your point is? I don't think anyone is denying he had a great year , but to anoint him the GOAT or heir-apparent GOAT, or the most accurate passer in the league would be quite far fetched. Don't get me wrong I hope he becomes all of the above , but he aint there yet

Where have I said he is the "GOAT"?

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Do we know how that stat compares to the other top QB’s in the NFL?

j/c:

Quote:

Baker Mayfield rips NFL draft analysts for criticizing first-round picks

Yahoo Sports Chris Cwik,Yahoo Sports Fri, Apr 26 1:22 PM EDT

Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield has a message to all those people ripping NFL draft picks: If you haven’t played the game, you can’t have an opinion on the game.

Baker Mayfield
✔
@bakermayfield

All these NFL analysts still crack me up... Just bringing guys down and saying what they “can’t do”... When we all know they aren’t even athletic enough to play checkers. Congrats to everybody who got drafted tonight, keep making people proud and proving people wrong!
126K
12:31 AM - Apr 26, 2019

Mayfield took NFL draft analysts to task Thursday night in a message meant to inspire players drafted in the first round.

Mayfield’s criticism is a type of gatekeeping you typically see in sports. It’s a way for those within the game to tell others their opinions don’t matter unless they took the field.

When applied to any other job, that line of thinking is ludicrous. Can only directors have opinions on movies? Should accountants be allowed to comment on which video games they enjoy? Is a plumber limited to talking about pipes every waking moment of their life?

Of course not. Fans and analysts are allowed to form opinions on their favorite teams and players. Being able to share and debate those opinions is what makes fandom fun.

In order to give themselves motivation, athletes rely on this idea that no one believed in them. Despite winning a million championships over the past decade, the New England Patriots still claimed that was the case after winning Super Bowl LIII.
Baker Mayfield Browns.
Baker Mayfield calls out NFL draft analysts. (AP)

That’s the same thing Mayfield is doing here. And while some picks will be universally panned and the occasional hot-take artist will say a first-round player was a seventh-round talent, the reason these players are being selected that high tells you the overwhelming majority of analysts do believe in them.

Even Mayfield — who was drafted No. 1 overall — ignores all the positive comments in favor of the negatives. Because of that, he’s a fiery, outspoken competitor who plays with a chip on his shoulder and fights back against bad analysis. Those attributes don’t just make Mayfield one of the most entertaining personalities within the game, they also make him successful.

In a world where all that goes away, Mayfield loses the traits that define him.

https://waitingfornextyear.com/2017/01/cleveland-browns-2016-season-position-review-wide-receiver/

Seems to me he's just trying to support the guys that were drafted and telling them to keep their heads up, and not to let their critics get them down. He speaks from experience, he was in that position last year and faced a lot of criticism from blowhard analysts.

Also, that link doesn't lead to the story.

Quote:

Also, that link doesn't lead to the story.

My bad.

https://sports.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-...-172250805.html

Originally Posted By: jfanent

Seems to me he's just trying to support the guys that were drafted and telling them to keep their heads up, and not to let their critics get them down.

Then why didn't he just say that?

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: jfanent

Seems to me he's just trying to support the guys that were drafted and telling them to keep their heads up, and not to let their critics get them down.

Then why didn't he just say that?

Seriously? He said pretty much exactly that. "Congrats to everybody who got drafted tonight, keep making people proud and proving people wrong!"

Yeah, you kind of left the checkers line out there. lol

Well jfan, just understand that you aren't athletic enough to play checkers. LOL

Maybe not yet, but I been workin' out!

All I better hear in the stands this season is BAKER MAYFIELD *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*

I'm expecting to hear chants of "King in the North! King in the North!"

The NFL channel replayed the Jets/Browns game this afternoon. Every time I watch that game I have all the confidence in the world that Baker will rise to the occasion this year. I mean, he came into that game cold and took it over.

Danger Zone

j/c:

Baker reminds me of the kid most of us knew growing up. The kid who thought he was better than everyone. The kid who bullied others. The kid who built himself by making fun of others. The kid, who despite all his character flaws, had a lot of "friends."

I really don't like the dude. Can you imagine calling out guys like Kurt Warner, L. Tomlinson, Louis Riddick, etc by saying some dumb crap about these guys aren't athletic enough to play checkers?

And btw........are we saying that anyone who isn't athletic isn't capable of understanding the game? Where does that put all of you who defend him?

He and I would have fought if we were growing up in the same town and played for the same team. I don't like bullies.

I will root for him to play well because I want the Browns to win, but it's kinda like the Jimmy Haslam thing. I don't like him either. Both guys are pieces of crap, but I'm going to have to get past that because I want the Browns to win.

I almost didn't post this because I know of the personal character attacks that will be directed my way because I offered my honest opinion. However, I feel strongly enough about my position to endure those attacks.

I get that feeling when I watch Pat Mahommes.

----

If Baker throws for 3 Tds in game one, I may change my signature.

There are times I wish he'd shutup and take the high road. Occasionally I've mentioned I don't like some of his mouth-running, and I thought the Hue stare-down was immature. Kid's got fire.

He is what he is, I guess. I love that he's our QB, so I'll mostly overlook the other stuff. For now.

Remember though, Vers. His teammates love and follow him, so he can't be a complete arse.

That's completely fair.

Btw..............I am not trying to get anyone to agree w/me. Not at all!!!!!!

I am just voicing my solitary opinion that I really don't like the dude. He seems like a complete ass to me. I played w/and against dudes like him.

I mean.............think about it. Kurt Warner has won a Super Bowl. He was the MVP. He is a HOF player. And some dude who has a losing record is calling you out? Pfffttttt....

Dude, shut your mouth.

Quote:

I really don't like the dude. Can you imagine calling out guys like Kurt Warner, L. Tomlinson, Louis Riddick, etc by saying some dumb crap about these guys aren't athletic enough to play checkers?

While it wasn't a good thing to say, I believe he was ta;ling about the so-called draft experts. Yep, just looked. He also wasn't defending himself, but those taken in the 1st round.

Baker Mayfield rips NFL draft analysts for criticizing first-round picks
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bak...icks/ar-BBWkmJg

Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield has a message to all those people ripping NFL draft picks: If you haven’t played the game, you can’t have an opinion on the game.

Mayfield took NFL draft analysts to task Thursday night in a message meant to inspire players drafted in the first round.

Mayfield’s criticism is a type of gatekeeping you typically see in sports. It’s a way for those within the game to tell others their opinions don’t matter unless they took the field.

When applied to any other job, that line of thinking is ludicrous. Can only directors have opinions on movies? Should accountants be allowed to comment on which video games they enjoy? Is a plumber limited to talking about pipes every waking moment of their life?

Of course not. Fans and analysts are allowed to form opinions on their favorite teams and players. Being able to share and debate those opinions is what makes fandom fun.

In order to give themselves motivation, athletes rely on this idea that no one believed in them. Despite winning a million championships over the past decade, the New England Patriots still claimed that was the case after winning Super Bowl LIII.

That’s the same thing Mayfield is doing here. And while some picks will be universally panned and the occasional hot-take artist will say a first-round player was a seventh-round talent, the reason these players are being selected that high tells you the overwhelming majority of analysts do believe in them.

Even Mayfield — who was drafted No. 1 overall — ignores all the positive comments in favor of the negatives. Because of that, he’s a fiery, outspoken competitor who plays with a chip on his shoulder and fights back against bad analysis. Those attributes don’t just make Mayfield one of the most entertaining personalities within the game, they also make him successful.

In a world where all that goes away, Mayfield loses the traits that define him.

I love Baker's attitude. I watch football to be entertained, and he's entertaining. And he kicks ass.

He called out Kurt Warner?!? What for?

Quote:

He also wasn't defending himself, but those taken in the 1st round.

YTown, I like how you responded to me w/out insults........but bro, I never said he was defending himself. I thought it was very clear he was speaking of the this year's prospects. I am NOT chastising him for that.

Look......he could have defended those dudes by saying something like this:

The NFL draft talk is interesting, but it is an inexact science. We can talk all day about it, but the real proof comes on the field. Good luck to all of guys in this year's draft class. Only you can determine your success.

Originally Posted By: Pdawg

He called out Kurt Warner?!? What for?

Not specifically.

Come on. I didn't expect that comment from you. He called out all of them. Kurt Warner is one of the guys who was evaluating the draft. Sheesh!

I can see that my words are going to be twisted yet again.

I didn’t know what you were talking about when I posted. I figured it out once I read Ytown’s post.

My apologies. Like I said, I didn't expect that from you. You are a very fair poster.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: Pdawg

He called out Kurt Warner?!? What for?

Not specifically.

Come on. I didn't expect that comment from you. He called out all of them. Kurt Warner is one of the guys who was evaluating the draft. Sheesh!

I can see that my words are going to be twisted yet again.

Nobody is twisting your words, but I don't understand why you want to get into a fistfight with Baker....???

I didn't say I want to. I said we would have had we been playing in the same era.

Hate this guy:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bak...0&FORM=VIRE

He is the most perfect quarterback for us at the most perfect time.

If I ever run into John Dorsey I'm going to give him a nice big hug and thank him for listening to me and delivering us Baker Mayfield.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

j/c:

Baker reminds me of the kid most of us knew growing up. The kid who thought he was better than everyone. The kid who bullied others. The kid who built himself by making fun of others. The kid, who despite all his character flaws, had a lot of "friends."

I really don't like the dude. Can you imagine calling out guys like Kurt Warner, L. Tomlinson, Louis Riddick, etc by saying some dumb crap about these guys aren't athletic enough to play checkers?

And btw........are we saying that anyone who isn't athletic isn't capable of understanding the game? Where does that put all of you who defend him?

He and I would have fought if we were growing up in the same town and played for the same team. I don't like bullies.

I will root for him to play well because I want the Browns to win, but it's kinda like the Jimmy Haslam thing. I don't like him either. Both guys are pieces of crap, but I'm going to have to get past that because I want the Browns to win.

I almost didn't post this because I know of the personal character attacks that will be directed my way because I offered my honest opinion. However, I feel strongly enough about my position to endure those attacks.

Is Baker a bully or is he the kid who was picked on by the bullies until he decided to stand up to them? His "antics" seem to generally be reactionary.

Sometimes bullies feel like they are being bullied when people stand up to them and other people stop being afraid of them, too. Baker doesn't take crap from anybody. He was doubted by many of those same "NFL analysts". I'm not sure he's referring to the same ones you are though. There are some pretty harsh hot takes that fly around on draft twitter and elsewhere.

If analysts stuck to analysis rather than putting out controversial clickbait takes and effectively bullying prospects, they wouldn't get so many responses like Baker's.

Some "analysts" seem to take perverse pleasure in loudly announcing that a player will fail. See Cowherd.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I didn't say I want to. I said we would have had we been playing in the same era.

C'mon man. You didn't get my post?

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

And btw........are we saying that anyone who isn't athletic isn't capable of understanding the game?

This is the crux of the matter.

If only those who can do are permitted to judge, then that would change things.

That means that any of use who have never played music professionally should judge songs or performances.

And those of us who do not act in movies should judge movies or the performances of those who act in them.

Yeah ... I get it. Trying to bring logic to an internet discussion has as much effect as farting in a tornado.

Baker might have tempered his words or chosen them more wisely, but I love his intent. He was telling the drafted players to not listen to the talking heads, to rely on their talent and take care of business. I'm sure he already regrets intimating the notion that those who don't or haven't played can't understand the game. I do know this, I'm certainly glad I wasn't judged and condemned for every stupid thing I said in my 20's. Or 30's. Or yesterday. It's so much easier to be perfect or politically correct when you're not under microscopic scrutiny from the comfort of the couch. I'm also fairly certain some of his vitriol stems from his encounters with douchebags like Cowherd.

GO BROWNS!

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: Pdawg

He called out Kurt Warner?!? What for?

Not specifically.

Come on. I didn't expect that comment from you. He called out all of them. Kurt Warner is one of the guys who was evaluating the draft. Sheesh!

I can see that my words are going to be twisted yet again.

Guess it depends on what channel he was watching on. heck all the time on this board people use a group term but are truly referring to specific people in that group.

Besides, on draft night the "commentators" are more positive, it is the pre-draft "analysts" who tend to point out more of the negatives.

I think Baker's use of the term NFL Analyst was not directed at former players, but the Mel Kipers and Todd McShays and all of the "Mock Draft" experts of the world.

I would go to battle with Baker in my foxhole all day, every day...

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: Pdawg

He called out Kurt Warner?!? What for?

Not specifically.

Come on. I didn't expect that comment from you. He called out all of them. Kurt Warner is one of the guys who was evaluating the draft. Sheesh!

I can see that my words are going to be twisted yet again.

I think he clearly states that "if you didn't play the game". I would assume that removes Warner from the comment. Just saying

Originally Posted By: Hammer

I think Baker's use of the term NFL Analyst was not directed at former players, but the Mel Kipers and Todd McShays and all of the "Mock Draft" experts of the world.

I would go to battle with Baker in my foxhole all day, every day...

Hammer...I agree...I think?

Did Baker even use a name in his comments about analysts?

Unless he named someone specifically, everyone here is just guessing as to who he was directing his comments toward.

No mac, he didn't use a name. He said "all these analysts..." He also said something about them not being athletic enough to play checkers.

Do you think you have to have played the game to know the game? If so, I guess people shouldn't give their opinions on coaches and players on this board anymore.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

No mac, he didn't use a name. He said "all these analysts..." He also said something about them not being athletic enough to play checkers.

Do you think you have to have played the game to know the game? If so, I guess people shouldn't give their opinions on coaches and players on this board anymore.

Baker was not specific or personal about who he was criticizing so I don't have a problem with his comment.

Those who do have some experience in the sport they are analyzing "might" have more credibility than some who have never played the sport.

Again, I have no problem with Baker expressing his opinion.

You are misconstruing my message. That's fine. I made my point and do not wish to argue back and forth about it. It will be interesting to see the reactions from some of you when OBJ makes a controversial statement.

This doesn't surprise me...that was a lode of bs about who he is. Sometimes I think you are describing yourself.

Obviously he was not commenting on the analyst that have played the game. I'm pretty sure he explicitely stated never played the game so how does his comments get directed to some HOF analyst out there.

Your hatred to him was obvious all this time but thanks for letting us know how you feel about him. Keep on with your hopes of Rosen being our guy...lol

Just face the fact you were wrong and your conception of who Mayfield is makes no sense at all.

smh

I'm not going to trade insults w/you.

Have a good day.

Hey you made your bed...hatred on our Franchise QB. At least you will stomach him cause he will be great for our team.

But you made up some totally hated UNTRUTHS....about Baker as if it is a fact. A Bully??? You have no clue about him up close and personal. At least I studied him and his character a lot more than you.

You just didn't like him as a prospect from the get go. Now that his talent is a positive you got to slam him with some made up stuff.

I made it very clear, have your own opinion that is fine but if you wish to Make up some untruths on our Franchise QB who I totally liked from the beginning. I won't let that happen.

This isn't about trading INSULTS this is about you hating our Franchise QB and making up total Crapola about him.

Your agenda is clear, I pointed it out in the past and now you actually come out and state your hatred for Baker.

You were totally clear on making Device...look like he was in the wrong cause he too loved the pick.

Again you got football against Baker let me know. You tried to state untruths about his football during the season and were totally wrong. Now we know it wasn't about football it was about you hating the guy. So you make up stuff about him.

Sorry I ain't Device (no offense Device) I won't be bullied by you like he has been by you and your brown noser

Later, and sorry if I have offended you in anyway. That is not my agenda my agenda is that I have loved the acquisition of Baker and will not stand for any MADE UP CRAP about his football or his character!

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

You are misconstruing my message. That's fine. I made my point and do not wish to argue back and forth about it. It will be interesting to see the reactions from some of you when OBJ makes a controversial statement.

vers...sorry I missed the opportunity to argue with you...

I've got a lot going on this spring... you know, real world stuff that requires my "real world time" to complete

Once I'm caught up, I would be happy to argue with you vers. Hopefully you can find a subject that is worthwhile...

Quote:

Sorry I ain't Device (no offense Device) I won't be bullied by you like he has been by you and your brown noser

Wait! What? I was bullying you?

As for the rest.....I will ignore the insults, but want to tell others that I have never tried to hide my dislike for Baker, the person. I think he is an ass. That's no secret. I am not hiding it. I don't like the dude. Never have.

I will say that he is a much better qb than I thought he would be. I was wrong about that. I can admit that.

No offense taken. I do my best to ignore the bullying attempts.

I also thought the exact same thing as you when I read the post. There was nothing anyone could have said in rebuttal, because he did a very good job of already insulting anyone who would disagree. That's why I just responded to Eve's post and said Baker was the right quarterback for us at the right time.

He was looking for a fight. And not only that, there's an entire thread that HE started entitled something like "Baker, the person." Then he comes here and posts the same thing. Yeah, we got it. You don't like him. Heard you the first time. Don't have to clutter every thread. The irony is he is the exact kind of poster he claims to despise.

Vers wasn't bullying anybody.

Ok.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Quote:

Sorry I ain't Device (no offense Device) I won't be bullied by you like he has been by you and your brown noser

Wait! What? I was bullying you?

As for the rest.....I will ignore the insults, but want to tell others that I have never tried to hide my dislike for Baker, the person. I think he is an ass. That's no secret. I am not hiding it. I don't like the dude. Never have.

I will say that he is a much better qb than I thought he would be. I was wrong about that. I can admit that.

I'm surprised you feel that way about him. I love the kid's moxie, even if I don't agree 100% with everything he says/does. I think the kid has a super alpha personality but his heart is usually in the right place even when he doesn't conform to common sports star standards. And that's why his team loves him and he is a great leader.

That's fine. We have different opinions. No big deal.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Quote:

Sorry I ain't Device (no offense Device) I won't be bullied by you like he has been by you and your brown noser

Wait! What? I was bullying you?

As for the rest.....I will ignore the insults, but want to tell others that I have never tried to hide my dislike for Baker, the person. I think he is an ass. That's no secret. I am not hiding it. I don't like the dude. Never have.

I will say that he is a much better qb than I thought he would be. I was wrong about that. I can admit that.

Baker is great. I hope he keeps doing what he's doing. Love all the charity work he's done, using his fame and likeness to do good things in the world. I detailed some of those in the "Baker Mayfield, the person" thread you made that was otherwise so bad that people had to spam post to get it shut down.

I like his fiery, never back down attitude though I can understand how he might sometimes rub a few people the wrong way. Whatever. I hope he stays like that.. this team and this city need a little attitude. JMO of course.

I think what's going on is you spent so much time defending Clueless Hue Jackson over the years that you were invested in that viewpoint. When he flipped to the Bengals and Baker stared him down and called him out, that was the proverbial line in the sand. We all had to take a side. Why you took Clueless Hue's is a mystery, but give it some time, and maybe you'll come back around in the end.

One of many (detailing some of Baker's charity work): https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...43-cc5768ac7a0f

j/c:

I haven't insulted any poster. I even said I did not want to trade insults. Yet, multiple posters have turned the conversation away from Baker and are attacking my character. Classy.

Btw---------I didn't like Baker long before he was a Cleveland Brown, so the Hue Jackson crap is just that.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

j/c:

I haven't insulted any poster. I even said I did not want to trade insults. Yet, multiple posters have turned the conversation away from Baker and are attacking my character. Classy.

Btw---------I didn't like Baker long before he was a Cleveland Brown, so the Hue Jackson crap is just that.

I hope you didn't think I was attacking you, I was just making an observation of what he actually said.

Somehow Baker got included in Tom Brady's annual Kentucky Derby festivities:

I love this.

Kliff Kingsbury seems like an odd inclusion.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Kliff Kingsbury seems like an odd inclusion.

Former Tom Brady backup.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Kliff Kingsbury seems like an odd inclusion.

Former Tom Brady backup.

Additionally, Brady and Belichik have been texting Kingsbury since being hired by the Cards.

Fair point... but to me still odd if this is an annual thing, but first time for Kliff.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Fair point... but to me still odd if this is an annual thing, but first time for Kliff.

Recruiting never stops for college coaches.

J/C

This isn't a criticism of any of the posters here. It's an observation about life in the 21st century, social media and the good old days.

Can any of you imagine a discussion of who Tom Landry or Bill Parcells or Bill Walsh was buddying-up with and the implications of who was in their social circle? I can't.

Is that good or bad? I don't know but the intrusiveness of medial and technology has just made living more complex than it ever was. Damn, I sound like an old man... and I like it.

And more fast paced. More instant reactions and less introspection.

Actually you have been too kind to me...please don't baby me due to my medical stuff, its scaring me... but thanks anyways...lol

Originally Posted By: mac

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

You are misconstruing my message. That's fine. I made my point and do not wish to argue back and forth about it. It will be interesting to see the reactions from some of you when OBJ makes a controversial statement.

vers...sorry I missed the opportunity to argue with you...

I've got a lot going on this spring... you know, real world stuff that requires my "real world time" to complete

Once I'm caught up, I would be happy to argue with you vers. Hopefully you can find a subject that is worthwhile...

Deciding which diapers to use is a tough decision... lol

Man I hope that was taken as a joke, hopefully your real world issues is not that bad! God Bless you mac!

Originally Posted By: eotab

Originally Posted By: mac

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

You are misconstruing my message. That's fine. I made my point and do not wish to argue back and forth about it. It will be interesting to see the reactions from some of you when OBJ makes a controversial statement.

vers...sorry I missed the opportunity to argue with you...

I've got a lot going on this spring... you know, real world stuff that requires my "real world time" to complete

Once I'm caught up, I would be happy to argue with you vers. Hopefully you can find a subject that is worthwhile...

Deciding which diapers to use is a tough decision... lol

Man I hope that was taken as a joke, hopefully your real world issues is not that bad! God Bless you mac!

EO..while you are deciding on the diapers to use...my real world issues deal with keeping up on the springtime maintenance on the machinery, planning a remodeling project, updating the furnace and ac...just to mention some of the stuff cutting into my DT time.

Like I said, not a lot of time to argue and converse about our Browns now, but I will catch up.

Baker isnt gonna need Bradys rings. He is gonna slaughter the record, all on his own, with the brown and orange..

Baker sighting at the Kentucky Derby today...

He announced "Riders up!" to the crowd.

Still needs to shave his face.

Drunk...

I'm not sure what the Kentucky Derby people are doing.

Normally they have my favorite gay boi Johnny Weir hosting, I love him.

But this year they have Von Miller hosting. That doesnt even make sense.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

I'm not sure what the Kentucky Derby people are doing.

Normally they have my favorite gay boi Johnny Weir hosting, I love him.

But this year they have Von Miller hosting. That doesnt even make sense.

Looks like they decided to hitch their wagon to the NFL.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

I'm not sure what the Kentucky Derby people are doing.

Normally they have my favorite gay boi Johnny Weir hosting, I love him.

But this year they have Von Miller hosting. That doesnt even make sense.

Looks like they decided to hitch their wagon to the NFL.

Yes, but why? Horse people rather see Johnny Weir.

Ok, now there is race drama about who actually won.

Um wow, the refs gave the kentucky derby to second place horse. Some betters gonna be rich. 65-1

That was bizarre.

lol baker was finally nervous (but cool to see him there)

He appeared more drunk than nervous.

Mint Julips are a thing at the Derby.

Yeah, they are. I've never had one, but it doesn't sound like my kind of drink.

I've never had one either. Which is a shame since its a "southern drink".

I guess I better put that on my todo list. Although I dont know any bars that would have fresh mint leaves.

I won't buy one, but I will have a tiny sip of yours.

In my youth, while visiting relatives in Richmond VA, my aunt Joan let me have a sip. It was minty, but I was not yet accustomed to the taste of whiskey (whiskey played a larger role, later in my life), so the overall effect was negative.

Its bourbon, not whiskey.

Although there have been bar fights about the difference between bourbon and whiskey.

Bourbon is a type of whiskey, much like Scotch, or rye.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

I'm not sure what the Kentucky Derby people are doing.

Normally they have my favorite gay boi Johnny Weir hosting, I love him.

But this year they have Von Miller hosting. That doesnt even make sense.

Looks like they decided to hitch their wagon to the NFL.

Yes, but why? Horse people rather see Johnny Weir.

I'm officially not a horse person.

Not sure about the subject matter so I did a bit of research and found the following...

here is a list of what makes whiskey qualify as bourbon:

1. Must be made in the United States.

2. Must contain 51% corn.

3. Must be aged in new oak-charred barrels.

4. Must be distilled to no more than 160 proof and entered into the barrel at 125 proof.

5. Must be bottled at no less than 80 proof.

6. Must not contain any added flavoring, coloring or other additives.

link

I would think "horse" people are in the minority of Kentucky Derby viewers. They're gunning for numbers...and Baker is high on the "viewability" list. Browns fans should be ecstatic about this. His interview with Turico was a thing of beauty and professionalism. Drunk my ...

Hammered and eating puppies on such a big stage...what a monster.

j/c:

Has anyone claimed that getting drunk is a bad thing? I don't think it is. He wasn't working like Josh Gordon. It's his free time. Big deal. Of course, that won't stop a guy who was never a Brown's fan telling Brown's fans what to think.

Originally Posted By: mac

Not sure about the subject matter so I did a bit of research and found the following...

here is a list of what makes whiskey qualify as bourbon:

1. Must be made in the United States.

2. Must contain 51% corn.

3. Must be aged in new oak-charred barrels.

4. Must be distilled to no more than 160 proof and entered into the barrel at 125 proof.

5. Must be bottled at no less than 80 proof.

6. Must not contain any added flavoring, coloring or other additives.

link

Whiskey has to be made in Kentucky to be called bourbon. That's why Jack Daniels is called Tennessee sipping whiskey.

I learned this years ago going to bartender school.

While most bourbons are from Kentucky, it doesn't have to be. But it does have to be made in the USA. However, I was going to mention geography is important, especially with scotch. Scotch is only from Scotland.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I won't buy one, but I will have a tiny sip of yours.

they are terrible... been to the KD twice and the infield is a great party.

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