DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OBJ

I really have no idea where you are going w/this. I'm not being mean, but I have no clue. I posted some information earlier. I talked about the trades being combined and the announcing of the nixing of the exchange of picks.

You later replied to me and said that I was wrong about that. I took the time to look up the information because I didn't want to mislead people. Turns out what I said earlier was correct.

So, what is the big deal here?

There again - as far as the salaries go... HUGE win for the Browns. In fact, at the time, it made Gettleman look even more inept. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a "huge loss" for the Giants.

Think about it, if the Giants are taking a big leap back in order to make moving forward easier, it was an inevitable loss. Regardless of whether they won the trade, regardless of whether they got enough value, that dead cap hit would come even if they received a king's ransom or OBJ and Vernon. It's more of a "necessary evil" than anything.

Two teams going in two different directions. I maintain what I claimed the day after the trade... Dorsey convinced DG that it was smarter to quit trying to piece-meal "change" from a middling position. Shed the fat, cut the weight, quickly stockpile assets and voila - over-night success. He had proof right in front of his face in the Brown's turnaround.

We're not going to agree on this one, bro. I hope that is okay?

Why would you sign OBJ to such a huge contract [I think he was the highest paid WR when they signed him] and then trade him less than a year later?

In my opinion, it was bad business any way you slice it. Not asking you to agree w/me, but I'm not going to change my stance on this one.

It's just friendly discussion.

This idea that we accepted a worse pick on an earlier trade because we sent it back in a later trade isn't really what happened (even if it was reported like that on some sites) and frankly, doesn't make much sense.

Agree to disagree on this one.

Bro! Not trying to get you to agree, just adding perspective. Not disagreeing in any way that this wasn't a coup for the Browns. Sorry if I came off as so argumentative.

That's an excellent way to look at it. You should've been a GM.

Media/talking heads almost always take a 'right now' position. They're not taking future team-building into account. After the draft, they barely even take into account which picks teams have to work with, if they even take that kind of information into account at all. It's usually very.. simple analysis.

I'm not saying I agree with everything the Giants are doing-- I certainly don't-- but there are some good things in there that Giants fans can be excited about. Will Gettleman turn the team around? I honestly don't know, the league is hard to predict like that, but give it a couple years and I think you'll see a tough, hard-nosed football team that can win some games.

The Browns are loaded and can win some games right now. Hopefully others don't misinterpret this-- I just see it as franchises in different stages of the building process, with maybe a little different philosophies as well. How do you balance some drama with pure football talent? I don't think there's one right answer to that.

I don't think you are being argumentative. I just think that this is a bad look for the Giants when you look at the total picture.

But again........I am not trying to get you to agree, either. LOL

Maybe my tone was off. I have to admit I am a wee bit frustrated w/how some of the conversations have went on today. I get called as a liar and spinning things for posting actual quotes while.............

....ehhh....never mind.

One thing in favor of your argument, Fate...

I'm watching NFL Network's Path to the Draft right now and they are talking about Rosen. The one dude talked about why the Giants should trade for him and mentioned that one should think back to last year and imagine getting Barkley and Rosen for a first this year and a first this year. That's a pretty good point because most analysts say that Rosen would be the top qb if he were in this year's draft.

The thing is ... The deals were published in the press before the new league year started and were therefore "unofficial." When the trades were written up "officially" and submitted to the league, at the start of the league year, the trades had been combined, written as one deal, and the trade of picks # 155 and # 132 were not included. I know it is a question of semantics, but officially, to the NFL, there was no exchange of the picks because the trades, agreed to before the commencement of the league year, never reached the league office to become official.

I know you don't need my validation on this, but to anyone reading it, this is 100% correct.

The deals as originally published were mere agreements in advance. The written deals submitted to the league were tweaked. I'm guessing that while they were writing them up, they were like "uh, why are we writing this twice... can't we just put it all on one piece of paper?" and the rest is history, lol

Wow. That sounds like precisely what you did to me...

Who's ready to get back to football and the Browns? I am.

I was ready to start the season the day last season ended, and even more so after we signed Shelton and traded for OBJ and Vernon.

Add in that I expect Dorsey to have at least 1 or 2 more useful moves in free agency or cuts, and the draft ....... man I'm psyched!

Man, I can't wait.

The opener is going to be electric. Can't remember when I've been more pumped. (spoiler: I haven't been)

Shelton? Do you mean Richardson? Sheldon

Right now the only thing I'm really "worried about" is getting through camp in tact... no injuries..

Yeah being that we just had Danny Shelton, it stopped me for a second as well.

We got Shelton back?!?

Sorry. Mistype.

j/c:

May I ask why my posts were deleted? I didn't swear. I didn't insult anyone. I was defending a Brown's player. I don't see what I said that was against the rules????

As usual Bone I find myself in agreement with you.

The Giants were IMO always a franchise that did what needed doing with mixed results to be sure like every other team they weren't perfect but they managed pretty well. But what they did made sense, that's no longer true by a long shot.

In last years draft they clearly needed a QB and on top of that they hadn't drafted in the top 10 in decades, so what did they do they draft a RB, easily the queerest move I have ever seen the Giants make, but they weren't through they trade away arguably the best WR in the NFL and IMO they face the prospect of packaging the 1st round picks they have to get too the top of the draft this year to get the QB they could have just taken last.

Weird stuff, really weird IMO.

The Giants have no plan.

I wonder what would have happened if the giants had taken Darnold. Would the jets have taken Josh Allen? With Barkely available, do we take him over Ward?

I bet the Jets take Rosen and we still take Ward. Barkley falls. Which makes the Giants drafting him second, and bragging about not taking trade calls, even more dumb.

I imagine we wouldn't have OBJ. ...SOoooo, let's be glad it worked out how it did.

Makes sense... fun to think about.

Where would he have fallen to? Colts probably don't. Bills still trade up for Allen.

Would Oakland @ 10? Maybe TB @ 12?

Maybe they were, but the Browns took the one they wanted.

It doesn’t seem like that. They were linked to Barkley all along and everyone knew it.

Everyone knew it because that's what Dorsey wanted them to know... it's the evil genius at it again.

You're not part of the club bro, those facts have been redacted.

Assuming that is true (or close), who is in the draft (at QB) that would give them what they could have had last year?

As I've said time and again, I'm not into the college game, so draft threads are outside my comfort zone/knowledge base. I've heard of this Kyler guy, but he's like the only one. Last year, there were at least 4 or 5 prospects discussed in what was called "a QB-rich draft class."

From what little I know, it seems that NYG missed their chance 12 moths ago.

Not everyone. I knew Dorsey was going to take Bake, if I am reading your comment as you meant.

We were taking a QB all the way, and Baker was the clear best one to take. I settled in on Baker about mid wat to the draft build up, which would have been late March, early April of last year.

OK....I don't have a crystal ball. I didn't "know" Dorsey was going to take him. I knew that he better take him because it was clear to me he was the best QB to hit the draft in a long time.

You are not reading the post correctly.

With the limited context it could be read a couple of ways. That is why I asked the question.

If I were a Giants fan I would be pissed at the moves the Giants have made.

A RB over a QB, I mean really ? Your kidding right?

If you don't have a QB then you need to get one, at best Eli has a limited shelf life, and RB has a limited shelf life when their farm fresh.

Many times you see teams draft a QB and then in the same draft pair them up with a WR they had the WR what they didn't have was the QB. They may be banking draft capital but their giving away the pieces they did have in the process for what at the end of the day is a RB. It's simply a queer approach at best IMO.

I could care less if Barkley is all world he isn't going to beat me in a QB driven league the Giants draft a RB and needed a QB. Leading into the draft I was certain the Giants would take a QB, the moment they didn't I knew they were in big long term trouble, and they are!

At the end of the day I don't think stupid says enough about how idiotic I view their moves all so they can field a 5 win team.

As painful as the past 3 years have been and say whatever you wish about those involved it was absolutely the right thing to do look where we are today as a result, and thanks to the stupidity of the giants we are on track to be one of the best teams in the league this year Walter Football power rankings has us at 7 can you imagine 7 wow what a change, but we sure did suffer for it.

Hanging your star on Eli seems bad judgment in itself to me. Maybe a better line allows better QBing. But this can't be a solution for long going forward. Does he come with a "best by (or buy)" date. Who is reasonably next up, because more negative outcomes seem plausible every season going forward.

The craziest thing is that by trading OBJ, teams are going to stack the box to stop Barkley and the Giants' running game. The guy is going to take a beating.