We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not.
I'm not sure I understand why we can't both support a player and also point out areas where they need improvement.. I mean, it's not like any player thinks they are a finished product... Everybody has ways they can improve...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
We'll see how this thread progresses. I might let it go, might not.
I'm not sure I understand why we can't both support a player and also point out areas where they need improvement.. I mean, it's not like any player thinks they are a finished product... Everybody has ways they can improve...
Which is the point some are trying to make.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
I can't get enough of that either.. I could watch that everyday until he puts up some new highlights.
I think we are forgetting a guy like Willies. I know we didn't see much of him but that one catch and run in the middle of the vid sure makes it appear that he's one to watch..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If Baker is what we saw in year one, we are going to see quite a few guys like Willies over the next 10 seasons. Baker is a point guard and guys are going to get the ball, they need to be ready.
I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.
It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...
We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...
Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.
pit, I think you are being facetious but in a very real sense there is something to what you said. we are on the precipice of what may be a really great run in no small part because of 1-31. going thru those two years was miserable. no fun at all for two full seasons. but because of that we have Garrett, we have baker, we have ward. We have a lot of young talent.
if we had gone oh , 4-12 or 5-11 those two seasons we would not be as loaded as we are now and we would not be looking forward with the same anticipation. I hated those two seasons but they may make the next few years really enjoyable.
And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!
Hue's poor coaching certainly helped, but with the assets we had, we probably would have traded up from 3 or 4 with the Giants to get Baker. They were obviously hung up on Barkley. I'd say Hue is responsible for Ward not Mayfield.
pit, I think you are being facetious but in a very real sense there is something to what you said. we are on the precipice of what may be a really great run in no small part because of 1-31. going thru those two years was miserable. no fun at all for two full seasons. but because of that we have Garrett, we have baker, we have ward. We have a lot of young talent.
if we had gone oh , 4-12 or 5-11 those two seasons we would not be as loaded as we are now and we would not be looking forward with the same anticipation. I hated those two seasons but they may make the next few years really enjoyable.
It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...
And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!
Thank you Hue Jackson, tank driver extraordinaire.
I know one thing for sure-- as long as Baker Mayfield is our quarterback, the Browns aren't ever going to pick first (not without exceptional luck anyway, e.g. a 'future first' from a team that implodes.)
It'll be exciting to watch how Baker progresses into year two. That's often a big jump for quarterbacks as they get more comfortable, the game slows down, etc. He'll have a full off-season of work with the ones behind him. There's a plethora of talent around him and the Browns figure to add more in 10-12 days.
Does anyone remember when posters were not allowed to post rumors and make things up? The board was so much better w/those rules in place.
I miss it, too, but the board was impossible to moderate to that level anymore. Given the rise of Twitface, Facespace, and other social media platforms and the "look at me, I'm first with news" factor that pervades everything, there just wasn't enough energy to moderate it. Then, when we factored in that folks can decide for themselves whether or not to believe what's on the internet, it made sense to stop fighting the current.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.
It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...
We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...
Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.
Have said / who said / he said / she said...
Analytics, no analytics, didn't matter... Baker was going #1 overall.
If there were no computers and "analytics" consisted of scout's notes scratched on a legal pad - Baker was going #1. If there were no interviews, no whiteboard, no combine... based on analytics alone - Baker was going #1. The endless arguing is resembling "what came first - the chicken or the egg?"
Anyone who thinks Dorsey doesn't make use of advanced analytics is a fool. I don't care what he said in a sound byte. Analytics is a tool, the weight a GM places on them is the litmus test. He may place less weight on analytics because he trusts his instincts, eye test and can stare through a prospects soul in an interview, but he's not dumb enough to think the numbers don't matter.
Anyone who thinks Dorsey would go all in based on great analytics if he didn't like the guy, the prospect didn't perform well in interviews or on the whiteboard... is also a fool. He's not going to throw away decades of experience in reading players because some "nerd" says he can't throw the deep ball with accuracy to the right side of the field or ranks third in passes over the middle against a rush. So even if Baker fell short of the other prospects, Dorsey's heart and mind said "he's my guy".
Three things prevented a pre-draft love affair with Baker from everyone in the NFL.
1. The quality of the "crop" with the 4-6 other NFL quality QBs
2. The maturity issues that were played over and over every time you turned on ESPN.
3. Lastly, but most importantly... John Dorsey's masterful job of throwing up the smokescreen. John had half the league thinking he was drafting Josh Allen and the other half thinking it was Darnold. GMs kept hush-hush (for the most part) in their praise of Baker, in the hopes that he would be there after #1, and they may have a chance to go up and get him.
He wasn't solely an analytics pick, he wasn't solely a football pick... he was the best of both worlds. Dorsey knew it from day one and started the smokescreen to keep the rest of the world guessing.
Edited to add:
Oh, yeah, 4 things... I forgot he was too short to play ball in the NFL. You know, because you had to stack Johnny Manziel's money phone on his head to bring him up to Aaron Rodger's height.
It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...
We could have a vastly different look.
We "could have". But look at all the QB decisions that we missed on or simply refused to take. I don't feel that a hypothetical revisionist history lesson is in any way going to change the position we were in when we were in it. I have to use the old saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda didn't". We have no clue who would have been selected in some hypothetical. We have no way to know if a team would have given up the #1 selection for the picks we may have offered.
I mean if Germany had won WW2 we would all be speaking German. But they didn't and we aren't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's interesting to think about for sure... and we'll never know... but if we had ended up with a 4-12 record in 2016 and had the 4th pick, we very well may have taken Mahomes at 4. The top 3 of 4 probably remain, but Garrett goes to SF, Trubisky to Chi, Fournette to Jax. Leaves us with Solomon Thomas or maybe Mahomes...
We could have a vastly different look.
We "could have". But look at all the QB decisions that we missed on or simply refused to take. I don't feel that a hypothetical revisionist history lesson is in any way going to change the position we were in when we were in it. I have to use the old saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda didn't". We have no clue who would have been selected in some hypothetical. We have no way to know if a team would have given up the #1 selection for the picks we may have offered.
I mean if Germany had won WW2 we would all be speaking German. But they didn't and we aren't.
I think you've misinterpreted my post or you're trying to be argumentative. I couldn't care less about the what ifs. I'm stoked and grateful things have worked out to where we are right now. Of course the "could have" is speculation. That's the whole point. If you don't like the conversation, you can skip right on by... you certainly don't have to try to explain things I already know... but thanks anyway.
I just love his footwork within the pocket. I cannot remember a QB with that skill I mean he did it several times a game the best part was the accuracy he had on most of those throws...smh
Man he is sooooo good. Again not to be redundant but we are so lucky!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I was reading back through the old Baker Mayfield posts from pre-draft and immediately following the draft.
It's interesting how many people posted links and comments from other coaches/gm's around the league that Baker was their #1 choice. The Jets were said to have rated him their #1. The Rams had said if they didn't have Goff they would have sold the farm to get Baker. The Patriots were interested in Baker...
We were even discussing back then how Baker was such an analytical pick, sharing quotes and picks. Fast forward this year, people are trying to change the story and make it look like analytics wasn't involved and Baker was solely a football pick...
Most fans were uninformed or misinformed it would seem... Despite all the issues people kept trying to conjure up, in the end there were no issues and Baker was the consensus #1 pick.
Have said / who said / he said / she said...
Analytics, no analytics, didn't matter... Baker was going #1 overall.
If there were no computers and "analytics" consisted of scout's notes scratched on a legal pad - Baker was going #1. If there were no interviews, no whiteboard, no combine... based on analytics alone - Baker was going #1. The endless arguing is resembling "what came first - the chicken or the egg?"
Anyone who thinks Dorsey doesn't make use of advanced analytics is a fool. I don't care what he said in a sound byte. Analytics is a tool, the weight a GM places on them is the litmus test. He may place less weight on analytics because he trusts his instincts, eye test and can stare through a prospects soul in an interview, but he's not dumb enough to think the numbers don't matter.
Anyone who thinks Dorsey would go all in based on great analytics if he didn't like the guy, the prospect didn't perform well in interviews or on the whiteboard... is also a fool. He's not going to throw away decades of experience in reading players because some "nerd" says he can't throw the deep ball with accuracy to the right side of the field or ranks third in passes over the middle against a rush. So even if Baker fell short of the other prospects, Dorsey's heart and mind said "he's my guy".
Three things prevented a pre-draft love affair with Baker from everyone in the NFL.
1. The quality of the "crop" with the 4-6 other NFL quality QBs
2. The maturity issues that were played over and over every time you turned on ESPN.
3. Lastly, but most importantly... John Dorsey's masterful job of throwing up the smokescreen. John had half the league thinking he was drafting Josh Allen and the other half thinking it was Darnold. GMs kept hush-hush (for the most part) in their praise of Baker, in the hopes that he would be there after #1, and they may have a chance to go up and get him.
He wasn't solely an analytics pick, he wasn't solely a football pick... he was the best of both worlds. Dorsey knew it from day one and started the smokescreen to keep the rest of the world guessing.
Edited to add:
Oh, yeah, 4 things... I forgot he was too short to play ball in the NFL. You know, because you had to stack Johnny Manziel's money phone on his head to bring him up to Aaron Rodger's height.
And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!
While I agree that Hue sucking to epic proportions (the likes of which have never been witnessed before) played a huge role in us getting the #1 pick, there were other contributing factors. Like Jimmy Haslam allowing Hue to remain in place to complete the job, and Sashi Brown acting like he knew what he was doing evaluating talent.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
And from the way people make it sound, if Hue hadn't sucked so bad we would never have had the #1 pick to draft Baker. Thank you Hue!
While I agree that Hue sucking to epic proportions (the likes of which have never been witnessed before) played a huge role in us getting the #1 pick, there were other contributing factors. Like Jimmy Haslam allowing Hue to remain in place to complete the job, and Sashi Brown acting like he knew what he was doing evaluating talent.
He did evaluate McCarron better than other members of the Browns.
Well, you're right about that. It's a good thing Sashi botched that trade, or McCarron would have won us too many games to get that #1 pick.
Believe it or not, that is probably true. AJ was better than Kizer and knew Hues offense. We might have won a couple games and fallen out of the # 1 spot.
Strange but probably true....
JMHO
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
you are not wrong . To put Baker up as the GOAT or even the next in line is very very premature. He's played one season. yes the prospects look good , however one acl or snapped leg can wash that away quick. How many injured players dropped off the chart after an injury. Also there's a book on Baker now so things will be a little tougher this year. I have faith if the football gods look down favorably, Baker has the ability to do all the things people claim ,but the GOAT, and most accurate, we'll see
