DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft Trading Back Into The First Round?

Could be....if a team trades out it is probably a team with 2 first round choices. Oakland has 3 and Green Bay has 2. I am not counting the Giants. I doubt they will trade our pick back.

One of those teams might see value in trading back. Our 2nd and Duke plus a 5th? A 4th? Both of those teams hold a late 1st rounder. I think one is at 27, the other at 30.

I went to a website and did a few mock drafts myself upon certain scenarios.
The website is: thedraftnetwork.com

Mock Draft #1 (assuming Dorsey drafts all picks)

(49) CB Justin Layne Michigan State
(80) S Amani Hooker Iowa
(119) DL Trysten Hill UCF
(144) OT Oli Udoh Elon
(155) LB Germaine Pratt NC State
(170) CB Jimmy Moreland James Madison
(189) Edge Austin Bryant Clemson
(221) RB Devine Ozigbo Nebraska

Mock Draft #2
Dorsey trades: Picks (49) (80) (119) 2020 3rd round pick to
Seattle for: 1st round pick #21

(21) DL Jeffrey Simmons Mississippi State
(144) OT Oli Udoh Elon
(155) LB Germaine Pratt NC State
(170) CB Jimmy Moreland James Madison
(189) Edge Austin Bryant Clemson
(221) RB Devine Ozigbo Nebraska

Mock Draft #3
Dorsey Trades: Duke Johnson & 5th round pick (155) to
Dallas for: 3rd round pick #90

Dorsey Trades: 5th round pick (144) to
New York Jets for: LB Darron Lee

(49) S Darnell Savage Maryland
(80) OT Yodny Cajuste West Virginia
(90) LB Vosean Joseph Florida
(119) DL Daniel Wise Kansas
(144) to NY Jets- Darron Lee
(155) to Dallas for pick (90)
(170) CB Jimmy Moreland James Madison
(189) Edge Austin Bryant Clemson
(221) RB Devine Ozigbo Nebraska

Which if any mock drafts look good?

I'd prefer the last one. But I think I'd rather keep Duke, especially if we're getting Lee as he makes Joseph a bit superfluous.

Not sure how I feel about Cajuste. Haven't watched much of him and none recently. Value looks good there as far as where I've seen him rated.

I'm just not sure I like him enough more than Harrison as a 3rd tackle to not look elsewhere at that pick.

It's my hope that what I'm going to say here will be judged objectively.

First, I completely disagree with your evaluation of Simmons. I accept that this is unresolvable. It simply is a matter of opinion and I am as convinced of his value as you are unmoved by his worth.

Your declaration that the draft chart is meaningless just isn't supported by facts. Yes, the original Jimmy Johnson Draft Chart is not in wide use any longer around the league. It has been replaced with charts that better reflect the current financial realities of the NFL. This article describes some of the thinking that has led to the old chard being replaced.

Here is an example of a revised trade chart that approximates what teams are doing to calculate trade values. The point is teams must have some commonly accepted if not exact metrics to use in deal-making otherwise there is no common basis for these transactions. Again, the point is these instruments are in use around the league.

The O&B Report has an article projecting a trade with Seatle, for slot 21 where the Brown's take Simmons. Ironically, the new draft chart referenced in the link values that pick at 260.02 points. The Browns #49 (118.06 pts) + #80 (56.02 pts) #119 (23.62) come up short at 197.7 pts. But when you conservatively add the lowest possible point value for the 2020 round 2 pick, #32 (79.69) you trade a total of 279.02 pts

I'm also including a link to an interesting article that discusses trading future picks. It's not definitive in either way. It works at times and at times it may not work. It demonstrates that these decisions should not be made as absolutes. The use of the strategy is dependant on the skill and experience of the decision maker. And we have all hear it more than once... in Dorsey we trust.

Is Cajuste related to the TE we had in camp last year?

Not very closely judging by the skin tones at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Well .. I hadn't actually looked ... and that doesn't always mean anything anyway ..... but having now looked up the name, it is most popular in Haiti and Ecuador .... and the US .... though it is a rare surname, indicating that there could be common ancestry at some fairly modern point in time.

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...out-john-dorsey

The trade to acquire receiver Odell Beckham Jr. left the Cleveland Browns without a first-round pick in the upcoming NFL draft.

But a move back into the first round is always possible. Never count out John Dorsey.

The Browns' general manager even has fun with the idea. Every time he’s asked about a possible trade-up, he grabs his cellphone and says he’s ready to take a call.

Shortly after the Beckham trade came together March 12, though, Dorsey said any deal probably would wait until the night of the draft.

“If you think the player can help you, you go up and do it,” he said. “Those are the mechanisms that work out. You have to plan for them, but then you have to execute them on the day of the draft.”

The “mechanisms” that led to the acquisition of Beckham included a year of planning and discussion. That deal followed 2018, when Dorsey made 14 trades that led to the Browns obtaining (among others) receiver Jarvis Landry (Beckham’s former teammate at LSU), safety Damarious Randall and a bundle of draft picks. Among the players Dorsey traded: defensive lineman Danny Shelton (a former first-round pick), quarterbacks DeShone Kizer (second round) and Cody Kessler (third), wide receiver Corey Coleman (first), offensive tackle Shon Coleman (third), receiver Josh Gordon, cornerbacks Jason McCourty and Jamar Taylor, and running back Carlos Hyde.

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Dorsey also has a history of important draft-day trades.

A year ago he swapped fourth-round picks and gave up a sixth to move up to take wide receiver Antonio Callaway. As a rookie, Callaway had 43 catches and five touchdowns; he figures to be in the Browns' rotation in 2019.


John Dorsey has a history of making trades to move up during the draft. Zach Bolinger/Icon Sportswire
In 2017 with Kansas City, Dorsey gave up the 27th pick (in the first round), the 91st pick and a 2018 first-round pick to move into the 10th spot, where he drafted quarterback Patrick Mahomes.

Mahomes threw 50 touchdown passes last season as Kansas City went 12-4 before losing the AFC Championship Game.

Dorsey also sent three picks to Minnesota to move up in the third round to take running back Kareem Hunt. Hunt led the NFL in rushing as a rookie and was having an excellent season in 2018 before he was released after a video came out showing him kicking and shoving a woman. He was not arrested in connection with the incident, but the NFL suspended him without pay for the first eight games of the 2019 season.

Hunt is now with the Browns on a one-year deal, as Dorsey takes a chance on him getting his life together.

Whether the Browns have enough to move up into the first round is debatable. The Browns have one pick each in Rounds 2 (No. 49), 3 (80), 4 (119), 6 (189) and 7 (221), and three in Round 5 (144, 155, 170).

The second-round pick would be the starting point for a trade. The draft value chart many teams use puts a value of 410 points on the 49th selection. The 25th pick, as an example, is worth 720 points. The gap of 310 points equates to a low second-round pick. Which means moving up from the second round into the first could cost a second-round pick this year and perhaps next year as well.

That’s a high price, though if Dorsey likes a player it could be worth the cost given the high hopes for the Browns this season.


Cleveland has not added a cornerback this offseason; teams always need corners. There is great depth in the draft on the defensive line, and Dorsey spoke highly of Mississippi State’s Jeffery Simmons at the NFL’s annual meetings despite the fact he is recovering from a torn ACL and was seen on film punching a woman while he was in high school.

“I think from your standpoint, what you should do is you should talk to the coaches and the support system at Starkville, Mississippi State, and just see what kind of man that guy really is,” Dorsey said.

Depth at linebacker also is needed.

But the position isn’t as important as the player. When Dorsey sees someone he likes, he usually is aggressive about trying to get him.

This should have went here: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...und#Post1614524

j/c:

Not Browns' related but involves trading up.



5.7 per year just doesn't seem like a good thing. And with 12 picks, I'm guessing he'll trade up again.... I just don't know where the picks are spread out, outside of the extra 1st we gave them.

I can see the Giants trading up from pick #6 to either pick #2 (Niners) or #3 (Jets) and taking DT Quinnen Williams. They passed on the QBs last year to take Barkley and I don't think this years class is as near as talented so I think they'll pass on the QBs with their first pick again this year plus I heard Gettleman saying that they need impact players and the Gmen have a huge hole on the right side of their Dline.

I can see the Jets really wanting to get out ... maybe Oakland/NYG has their hearts set on Haskins

I don't see the Giants trading up with their 2 first rounders. I see them probably sitting tight and going defense with both. I could see them packaging some later picks and trading up to 22 for a QB, though

There is no chance they pass on Haskins if he is there. I just cannot imagine they would be that dumb.

....how long have you been a Browns fan?

Ridiculously bad draft decisions should be easy to imagine.

.@FieldYates on @BullandFox on possibility of #Browns GM John Dorsey moving up from No. 49: "He's a scout's scout. He lives for this exercise. I don't think the Browns are going to be sitting there Thursday night as just spectators." Not guaranteeing trade, but will be aggressive

Keith Britton

Saw that, too. My first thought was Schobert reuniting with Gregg on the Jets for Darron Lee and a pick. Kirksey could move back to Mike.

My brain always tries to connect the dots. Kirksey announcing our pick makes me think he may be in Dorsey's plans. Williams always gushed about Joe. Lee's name has come up here a few times and we could use a Will/Big nickel.

We cut the guy who announced our pick last year a few days later.

There wasn't just a rumor about trading someone else at his position. And Telfer was never the best at his position at anything.

Was just doing some research on Kirksey after seeing that tweet and came across this:



Link

I'm not sure if I remember things quite that way, but if Kirksey can be a dominant force against the run, it sure would be nice. And might make the Joe Scho rumor make more sense kind of maybe.

I like Kirksey as a person and he is okay on the field. But, Joe Schobert is a better player. I love Dorsey, but I'm not liking this one.

Agreed.

Plus, Schobert is a lot less expensive.

I love Dorsey as well but I will be upset if this rumor ends up happening.

I think Joe is a smart player and his biggest value is in being "the Qb of the defense". Reading the offense and adjusting the calls. Does that diminish with Williams gone? I think a little but doubt that it will be a lot. As a pass defending Lb I think he is above average but not elite IMO. Against the run, I think he is poor.

Kirksey is a solid Lb (aloso IMO). But he seems to be injured a lot. Too much to be able to depend on him for my tastes.

I haven't watched Lee since his OSU days. My understanding is that he has underperformed. Is that on him or the way he was used? I have no idea.

My biggest concern on this team is our Lb corp. Our starters are subpar IMO. I think both Schobert and Kirksey are overrated. And there is no depth. Both Schobert and Kirksey were out with injury for a portion of the year last year. I have high hopes for Avery. But after those 3 who else do we have?

Whether we trade Joe or not, I think we need to address the Lb position. If we trade him, whether it is a good trade or not depends on who we get in return and how they perform, what the pick is and how we use it and how we replace him.

I'd be okay with trading Schobert... I've always voiced my opinion that hes not as dominant as I'd like our MLB to be.

Solid player, but for me... I always seem to want more out of him.

Trading Schobert might be because he's about to get relatively expensive.

I agree. My hope is John isn't getting a bit heady and starts making trades looking for the next blockbuster. He has done a great job to date but there comes a point where you can start shooting yourself in the foot. Just because Joe isn't one of "his guys" doesn't mean they can't play.

I think I'll wait to see the evidence of the bullet wound before I say he shot himself in the foot.

Wouldn't be surprised at all... he wasn't brought in here by Dorsey. Anyone in that regard should be feeling uneasy.

He probably saw Elvis at Krispy Kreme too.

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

He tried to tell all of you Sashi didn't get real players.

Yeah, Dorsey will probably cut Myles during camp.

I heard a rumor:

Baker for Eli and a 7th.

They want our 7th rounder?

Like I said, it can be at the point. Sometimes people try to force things is my only point. Schobert is a pretty good player who makes a difference on the field.

Well I guess the difference is that I really don't put any stock in rumors right before the draft. Most of it's click bait with nothing to substantiate it. And secondly, if he did make a deal like that I'd have to see how he addressed the position.

That's why my comment. I've seen instances where people have tried to force things. It does happen. I just haven't seen a single tendency from Dorsey to indicate that type of thing. That's why I will wait to see the bullet wound first.

I can't think of a single time when Dorsey was rumored to be involved in a trade where it did not happen. Even freaking OBJ happened when everyone thought that was a pipe dream.


Every time it gets out that someone is on the block, Dorsey makes a move. I am giving this trade up scenario MUCH, MUCH more credence with it being rumored we are shopping Schobert.

When you have a group that is a weak link, it isn't that crazy to think we might move them and try to upgrade somehow. Schobert is vastly overrated. He and Collins were like 1 and 4 in missed tackles this year. Linebackers that can't tackle are like receivers who can't catch. Got to trust dorsey on this. So far he hasn't made any holes he didn't have a fill for

That's fine, but don't try to make it sound like I said Dorsey was about to shoot himself in the foot. Your position on argumentation is getting old.

I was agreeing with Vers in thinking it a bad move.