DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Duke Johnson asks to be traded

Just saw the Bucs are signing Kerwynn Williams http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...erwynn-williams
Don't know if this affects anything regarding a possible Duke/McCoy deal

Roster spots are soft for a big trade like this. Do you think KW signing eliminates Duke, or their desire to move McCoy?

Browns sign RB LJ Scott

by Josh Alper on May 13, 2019
PFT.com


The Browns made a change to their running back group on Monday.

They announced the signing of former Michigan State back LJ Scott. Devante Mays was placed on waivers in a corresponding move.

Scott left school after playing just four regular season games in 2018. He could have applied for a medical redshirt, but opted against that after playing in the Spartans’ Redbox Bowl loss to Oregon.

Scott ran for 2,855 yards and 25 touchdowns and caught 43 passes for 403 yards and two touchdowns during his time in East Lansing.

Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, Duke Johnson, Dontrell Hilliard and Trayone Gray are the other backs in Cleveland right now. Hunt will serve an eight-game suspension to open the year.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/05/13/browns-sign-rb-lj-scott/#comments

SCOUTING REPORT:
LJ SCOTT
MICHIGAN STATE
RB
RB22


40 Yard Dash
--
SECONDS

Bench Press
21
REPS

Vertical Jump
33.0
INCHES

Broad Jump
120.0
INCHES

3 Cone Drill
7.27
SECONDS

20 Yd Shuttle
4.34
SECONDS

60 Yd Shuttle
--
SECONDS


Player Bio
Scott was a top-100 overall prospect and top-10 running back recruit nationally after finishing as a finalist for Ohio's Mr. Football (2,819 yards, 38 TD rushing; 16-295 punt returns; 35-644 kick returns). He met high expectations by leading MSU in rushing in all three of his collegiate seasons. As a true freshman, he scored 11 times on the ground (146-699-4.8, one start in 14 games played on the year), including the game-winner against Iowa in the Big Ten Championship. Scott was an honorable mention All-Big Ten pick in 2016 (184-994-5.4, six TD rushing; 10-147, one TD receiving) and 2017 (201-898-4.5, eight TD rushing; 20-146-7.3, one TD receiving). He started 10 of 21 games as a sophomore and seven of 12 games as a junior. Scott could not stay healthy in 2018, as an ankle injury limited him to playing in just five games (all starts) and rushing for 264 yards with no touchdowns on 79 carries (3.3 average). He initially planned on redshirting so he could return in 2019, but ultimately decided to play in the team's bowl game and move on to the NFL.

Overview
Scott failed to hit the 1,000 yard mark during his career and had just one season averaging more than 4.8 yards per carry, but those numbers are not indicative of his NFL potential. Despite consecutive seasons of traffic jams in front of him, his vision and decisiveness has not been compromised. Scott is a volume ball-carrier whose pass-catching ability adds to his value as a potential starter, but he struggles to find explosive carries and might need to be part of a "thunder and lightning" pairing.

Strengths
Well-built with proportional frame
Plays with desired north-south demeanor as inside runner
Decisive with a burst gear to clear the hole
Keeps plays on preferred track rather than bouncing it wide
Allows blockers time to get to their work
Good timing for making cuts off his blockers right at their point of engagement
Efficient and makes the most of his run lanes
Light feet for a big back
Plus jump cut to elude wannabe tacklers on first and second levels
Loaded boxes and subpar run blocking forced him to be self-sufficient
Viable pass-catching option with potential to ramp up the volume

Weaknesses
Can run with better knee bend and pad level in space
Needs to run with more power and less finesse near the goal line
Just 14 rushing touchdowns over his last 340 carries
Takes some losses due to inability to accelerate away from early traffic
Speed to outrun flowing NFL linebackers to the corner is below par
Running style limits ability to create the explosive runs
Ball security needs to improve
Had both mental and physical busts in pass protection


https://www.nfl.com/prospects/lj-scott?id=32195343-4f50-2953-4890-3abf2b2a38d2

Hometown Boy From Youngstown

Looking at Scotts college numbers, I'm not expecting anything that more the Browns just wanting to take a look. For his build, he looks more like a WR, than a hB.

I saw quite a bit of him at Hubbard since my boy played against him. After watching him in high school I was disappointed with his career at Michigan State. I hope he can turn it around as a pro but I’m thinking it will be for another team.

I remember LJ Scott being compared to Le'Veon Bell following his sophomore year and being projected to go between the second and third round.

I'm not sure where he went wrong. I quite like his game but I can't put my finger on why he's fallen so far out of favour.

Good news. Glad to see him working.

Fumbling issues, was hurt all last year and a 4.6 40 at his pro day.

I thought he should've came out last year and that the Browns would be lucky to pick him up. That said I think he'll still make a good back and hope he sticks with the team going into the season. I think the kid can be a bulldozer.

Fair enough.

I think I underrate athletic ability in NFL backs. I was a big fan of Samaje Perine coming out. His rookie season was below average and last year he had just 8 carries for 32 yards.

Perine is a different beast to Scott, but he's similarly a big back with limited speed and agility. Perhaps that style of player is just no longer for this league.

I hope for the best with Scott, though. I feel he's got a natural aptitude for the position, and he is so much fun to watch when he's hot, so hopefully we can see a version of him that is healthy and finding his peak physical abilities.

I'm damn sure he's a quality addition for a guy who'd currently be 4th or 5th on the depth chart. A hungry hometown guy with an electric highlight reel is never a bad option to have fighting it out for a roster spot.

glad Duke will be here

I'm not surprised, Duke's a pro and I expected him to be at OTAs.

I expected it as well. I don't expect anybody drawing pay to be a whiney malcontent. Show up, do the job, or quit.

As the Rock so eloquently puts it, "Know your role." Duke clearly understands his.

Does he?

We don't know what his role will be - or even if he'll be a Brown next season.

His role will continue to be what it has been. He'll "back-up" Chubb, but see the field plenty more than a usual back-up as a rusher and receiver. I'm sure Freddie will have him all over the field at various points.

I hope he is understanding that he's not a feature back - few guys are, and Duke isn't at that level, talented though he may be.

No matter where Duke goes, he's going to be splitting snaps with someone. In Tampa it would be with Ronald Jones and Peyton Barber.

At least here, he's valued and in an offense that is very well built to utilize his strengths. Going to be hard to contain Njoku, Odell and Callaway while still accounting for Duke.

I read cogent comments like this, and my head still swims. I'm still trying to wrap my head around CLE's new reality.

Think about it: on this date just one year ago, the Cleveland Browns were 1-31.

An embarrassment of riches.

_______________

I don't know if a Duke trade is imminent, but I suspect that he'll be a Brown until just before the trade deadline. I hope he stays, but if he doesn't...
... Kareem Hunt steps into his CLE backfield role. **Fressssssh**... with freakish onfield upside- just in time for a playoff push.

For the past 2 years, I've lamented that Duke wasn't used enough/properly. I hope the coaches/coordinators have put together a package for Duke, and feature him in this year's O scheme. It would be the smart play:

1. He helps CLE put points on the board in games 1-8
2. It burnishes his trade cache, if a trade/deal comes to pass.
3. If he's here as a 'season-long solid,' he gives this st00pidly stacked O a midrange/3rd down weapon that simply can't be defensed.

I fully expect CLE to have a Chubb/Duke package firmly established for Game One. What I fantasize is that CLE additionally has a Hunt/Duke package ready for games 8-16, when Chubb needs a blow.

Mind = bent.

Duke was used a lot when Hue was in charge of the offense. I have posted the numbers multiple times comparing his touches w/similar backs in the league. It was just another excuse for some to complain.

Last year, neither Haley or Freddie gave Duke a lot of opportunities. I don't think Freddie will give Duke more touches [should he still be a member of the team] this year considering we acquired OBJ.

I see this said a lot but when has it ever been true? When the Crow left we immediately signed Hyde. When Hyde's role was reduced we had Chubb move into the starting position. When Freddie took over the O Duke's role was diminished even more than before.

Why would anyone now suddenly feel Duke holds the second seat in the starting position when that's never been true before and wasn't true once Freddie took over? It appears that during one off season some fans feel Duke's role on this team has suddenly changed from what it has been his entire career.

Even after Freddie took over, I think he had to mainly use Hue and Haleys play book, maybe Duke just wasn't in the plays?

Now with more time to make their own, maybe he will be involved more, and maybe they have discussed all this with him.

Yet his usage went down under Freddie. You may be right that the O will change enough to include him more. But I think everyone would have to conclude that would only be for half the season even if it does happen.

Once you have the one two punch of Chubb and Hunt there will be nothing but some scarce leftovers for Duke.

My point was that if Duke is used as the "back up feature back", it will be a role he has never had during his entire career. And for people to state that as some kind of a fact is a reach at best based on nothing more than pure conjecture.

My point on this was that Freddie wasn't using HIS playbook, but still using Haley's(maybe with some tweaks), so maybe Duke just wasn't in Haley's designed plays.

Not easy to install a new playbook mid-season.

You are still missing the underlying point. At no time in his career has Duke ever been the back up feature back. While they may have been using the same playbook, his opportunities still went down. So it was decided to use the plays Duke contributed in less, not more.

Now we can use maybes and possibly until the cows come home. But the evidence to date strongly suggest that Duke is not the back up feature back for the Browns and we know Freddie used less plays for Duke than Hue did.

If I were to compare Duke to someone on our team of old it would be Eric Metcalf. Albeit, he's a more prolific returner than Duke, but I think on offense they are somewhere similar.

Who was the feature back when Metcalf was here, Hoard? Vardell? Mack? I don't know that Metcalf was ever destined to be a feature back. However, I think if the feature back were injured, he could fill in if need be. If Chubb were injured last year, I'd imagine Duke would be the fill in. In that regard, I'd say he's the back-up to the feature back. I'm not calling him a feature back, but he could assume the role in a pinch if need be if the feature back went down with injury.

There's a role for Duke. If you don't use him to his strengths he's not worth the price tag. If you use him more, perhaps he's worth his price tag. You could say he's over-priced/over-paid or that he's under-utilized and you would probably be correct.

Like Metcalf, I think Duke could excel in a receiving role. When Metcalf left here, Atlanta used him more as a receiver. Duke would be a pretty good slot guy.

That's my stance on it.

I'm not sure at 5'9" and 210# that any coach that's been here, including Freddie sees Duke as our feature back. It's possible, yet it's never been done. I don't believe they currently see Duke in the role of feature back should an injury happen to Chubb.

And I really don't discount Duke being valuable as a WR but when you look at our current WR unit, there's not much to indicate Duke would in any way be a preferred target to several of the WR's currently on the team. I doubt there will be enough passes thrown to keep our current WR's all happy much less throwing duke into the mix.

I mean who will they decrease balls thrown to to give Duke opportunities? Calloway? Higgins? Landry? OBJ? Njoku?

That's where I think the entire "Duke as a WR" debate falls flat. It's not that he doesn't have some talent in that department. The problem becomes the way this roster has been constructed, there simply aren't enough balls to see where Duke fits into the mix.

Because the point was underlying.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out a reason why his usage might not have increased "just" because Freddie took over.

Seems many people assume, not necessarily point to you, that when Freddie took over that it was Freddies system, and I have my doubts about that. I think Freddie worked with the system in place as best as he could. But was better at picking which plays better suited the players.

Not really a knock on Freddie or Duke, just that the situation dictated much of the events that took place.

Maurice Jones Drew, Ray Rice, Alfred Morris, Frank Gore, Devonta Freeman, Doug Martin, CJ Anderson are all running backs who are 5'9. Barry Sanders was 5'9. To say it's never been done is preposterous.

Huh?

Off the top of my head, I believe Warrick Dunn and Willie Parker were similar in size and I would have considered them featured backs. I also know Jones-Drew was a little fella... I could probably do some research and find a few more that would debunk your "never been done" claim.

Where did I say it's never been done? I didn't. It's not common in the AFC North and never has been. And while you are finding RB's over a long period of time, it's not the norm. It's also true that in every case, we have found a different feature back while Duke was still on the roster.

Crow replaced with Hyde replaced by Chubb and now we've added Hunt. At any point in time had any HC we've had or currently have considered Duke a feature back the opportunity presented itself to use him as such.

Dorsey drafting Chubb is even further evidence they did not see Duke as a feature back. Look, I don't make the news, I just report it.

#ShortQBSyndrome

Sorry, I see the confusion now. I meant it had never been done with Duke. He's never been seen as the feature back here. They've always found a replacement for the feature back position while Duke has been on our roster. If they had seen him as a feature back, they had no need to sign Hyde for that role. They had no need to draft Chubb for that role and no need to sign Hunt. But they did.

Over a long period of time? Besides MJD, Ray Rice and Barry Sanders, all those guys are playing in the NFL today. And are good. It's not like I'm out here going through the annals of history finding insignificant dudes who played with Frank Tarkenton. I would hazard to say all those dudes are pushing near 80 yards per game this season.

Hell, I don't think that Duke is a feature back, although I think he could be. However, I think he's much more talented than just that.

I'm also not so sure you're right about it not being done often in the AFC North. I'm not going to google it, but I do remember the Bengals and Steelers having good short running backs over the past decade. It may not have been common in the AFC Central, but not so sure in the AFC North...

Who do you think is not a good RB? Frank Gore? Devonte Freeman? Alfred Morris? Doug Martin? CJ Anderson?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Duke's rushing attempts were low but he was still 4th on the team in targets last year. His targets and receiving production slightly increased in the second half of the year, and his rushing production increased with a slight decline in attempts - which I'm guessing had more to do with Chubb's success than Kitchens not wanting to utilize him.

Duke has always been the second guy. Even with Hyde and Chubb, Duke got more opportunities behind Hyde than Chubb did. He was the second guy behind Crow, now he is behind Chubb.

So, yeah, I'll stand by it that your typical "back-up" doesn't average over 60 targets on the year. His rushing totals were down, but Nick Chubb is a damn superstar put up almost 1,000 yards with significant playing time in just 10 games. I know who I'd want running the rock.

I don't think anyone's thinking his role has changed - especially not in a post that was literally saying that he needs to understand he's very much dependent on playing a role.

Well it was you who said "he'll back up Chubb".

The back up would be your feature back if an injury to your starting RB occurred. So far Duke has never stepped in to start. So if that were to happen, his role will have changed.

This team has always managed to find a replacement back to fill the starting role rather than turn to Duke for that job. I don't think that's any different now.

According to https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/ Duke is the 11th highest paid RB. If you actually think his salary in any way lines up with his production? Houston, we have a problem.

His salary is probably why he hasn't been traded yet and he's still on the roster.

Were trying to win a SB ... Duke is very good at what he does and ADDS VALUE TO THIS TEAM ... Hunt is absent for the first 8 games until he comes back Duke is apparently needed or he’d be gone ... i said all along this was more about how we felt about Hilliard than Duke and it appears the COMBINATION of:

- how good Duke is at what he does
- our faith in Hilliard
- Hunt being out for 10 games

Led KJ to the following conclusion

his value to us > what we were offered

Now there’s some analytics for ya ... *L* ...