DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump's Economy is Bad News for Dems (Socialists)

They are expanding like gangbusters. They want our money, probably to use to buy Treasuries.

Pit is completely lost...he'd bankrupt a lemonade stand

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

And as soon as the tariffs end we'll go back to buying from the Chinese because they have the infrastructure to build them well and keep up with demand.

I give you facts and you blow..... hot air.

I'm guessing as much as you've been posting on here you must not be very busy right now? lmao

How's your portfolio looking today 40?

We will CONTINUE to buy from the Chinese as the others grow with supply.

When the Tariffs are gone, we will buy from ALL our new friends.

Facts.

There you go again - inventing your own facts. The cost of USA healthcare is more expensive than ANYWHERE in the world. You can spin that any way you like - and you can invent alternative facts. But the bottom line is - the USA ranks behind a whole slew of countries with government - nationalized healthcare and the cost to the USA per comparative procedure is always higher .... and yes, UK, Australia and France (and Canada) all have systems where private care is available for those that wish to pay for it or receive it as a perk with their remuneration/package from work ... smh.

Thanks for unwittingly repeatedly pointing out how 1st world nations SHOULD provide national healthcare for ALL - and that those that DO rank higher and pay less than the USA.

I thought the intent of the tariffs was to encourage us to produce here... not just give us more overseas options to buy from....

Actually I had planned for a much bigger drubbing with the China deal going down the toilet but only a 2-3 percent drop in the market has occurred. Big deal.

I can't find anything to buy because they have not dropped enough.

Says the guy with 32,000 posts

jc

well, trump cant blame the fed on the market sell off this time. this is all on him.

Yes, that is part of it too.

Accept that everyone knows that this is not realistic. So inventing alternative facts and deflecting is all well and good - but no-one is crazy enough to suggest the USA is going to suddenly increase manufacturing dramatically because of Trump's tariffs ..... that'd be like saying we can bring back the coal industry !

Article from WSJ today

Frustration, Miscalculation: Inside the U.S.-China Trade Impasse
The latest breakdown shows the two countries still haven’t found a way to negotiate effectively. ‘Sometimes you need to say “stop screwing me.”’
U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow and White House trade adviser Peter Navarro with China's Vice Premier Liu He and Chinese senior officials in Washington in February. JOSHUA ROBERTS/REUTERS
By Lingling Wei in Beijing and Vivian Salama, Michael C. Bender and Bob Davis in Washington
Updated May 13, 2019 10:00 a.m. ET
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The U.S. and Chinese governments both sent signals ahead of their trade talks in Washington last week that a pact was so near they would discuss the logistics of a signing ceremony.

In a matter of days, the dynamic shifted so markedly that the Chinese deliberated whether to even show up after President Trump ordered a last-minute increase in tariffs on Chinese imports because the U.S. viewed China as reneging on previous commitments.

Inside the cloistered Zhongnanhai government compound in Beijing, President Xi Jinping and his close advisers discussed how to respond to the tariff increase, given the talks were just days away, according to Chinese officials with knowledge of the decision-making process.

After huddling Tuesday to analyze a press conference given by the U.S.’s two top negotiators, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, Chinese officials concluded that they should travel to at least avoid a rift that could be difficult to repair.


Chinese Vice Premier Liu He and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer met for trade talks in Washington this month. PHOTO: CLODAGH KILCOYNE/REUTERS
The recommendation went to China’s chief negotiator, Liu He, and ultimately to Mr. Xi. He decided to send the team even though Beijing was fully aware that the trip held little prospect of progress, given how quickly problems had arisen. “The goal was simply to keep the talks going,” said one of the Chinese officials with knowledge of the matter.

By the end of the week, that was as much as both sides could cite for their efforts: the avoidance of a serious rupture that would doom any prospect of a future deal and a commitment to stay near the negotiating table.

So far, the trade talks have provided little evidence that the two nations have found a formula for how to negotiate successfully since Messrs. Trump and Xi met in Buenos Aires Dec. 1, which paved the way to Washington last week.

China didn’t immediately impose new strictures on U.S. businesses, as it has done when things weren’t going well in the past. Mr. Liu is expected to brief Mr. Xi on the discussions he had in Washington before Beijing decides on the next course of action, according to the officials familiar with the process.


China's Vice Premier Liu He arrives outside the office of the U.S. Trade Representative. PHOTO: LEAH MILLIS/REUTERS
On Sunday, White House economics adviser Larry Kudlow said in an interview on “Fox News Sunday” that China has invited Messrs. Lighthizer and Mnuchin to Beijing to continue trade negotiations, but that there were “no concrete, definite plans yet.”

Mr. Kudlow suggested one possible way out. He stressed twice during the Fox News interview that the American and Chinese presidents expect to meet again at the next G-20 in Japan at the end of June.

Bridging the trade rift may ultimately depend on the personal chemistry between President Trump and President Xi and their willingness to push matters forward after months of negotiations that have been full of positive intentions but thwarted by miscalculations, accusations of backtracking and unfulfilled expectations.



The U.S. Increases Tariffs and China Threatens Retaliation
The U.S. Increases Tariffs and China Threatens Retaliation
A U.S.-imposed 25% tariff on Chinese imports went into effect at midnight on Friday. What does this new levy mean for both countries and future trade negotiations? Photo Composite: Crystal Tai
At stake are the rules for global trade in a world order upended by China’s rapid rise, and both sides are keen to project an image of strength. The longer the dispute lingers, though, the greater the risk of economic fallout for both countries, along with prolonged uncertainty for global stock markets, which have whipsawed as expectations for a deal ebb and flow. The accelerating 2020 presidential campaign also promises to add a volatile new dynamic to the equation.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS
Why do you think the U.S. and China are having a hard time reaching a deal? Join the conversation below.

An eventual trade pact could give the U.S. and China momentum and a possible key to rapprochement on a number of other tense fronts, from the U.S. campaign against Huawei Technologies Corp. over security concerns in the telecommunications industry to navigating rights in the South China Sea.

After the Trump-Xi meeting in Argentina, on the sidelines of the G-20 conclave, the U.S. said it would suspend increasing tariffs from 10% to 25% until March 1 if American concerns were met. As that date approached, Mr. Trump made the suspension indefinite. His patience ran out May 5, when he tweeted tariffs would rise five days later. The increased tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods took effect Friday.


Shipping containers from Asia at the port of Long Beach, California. The U.S. has raised tariffs on goods imported from China. PHOTO: MARK RALSTON/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
Throughout the negotiations, there have been tensions all along the way. U.S. officials complained in February that China was reneging on previously agreed items, the same dynamic that resurfaced in recent days.

“They were playing games with us,” said one senior U.S. trade official of the talks in Washington three months ago. Mr. Kudlow told reporters at the time that Mr. Lighthizer “read them the riot act.”

“The more heated moments have been in situations where we thought we had something and suddenly there was some backsliding,” said one person involved in the discussions on the U.S. side.

“We’ve expressed some pretty serious frustration at times,” this person said. “It’s been a necessary ingredient to success. You can be nice to someone, but sometimes you need to say ‘stop screwing me.’ ”


In early April, Mr. Mnuchin announced that negotiators had agreed on a mechanism for enforcing the terms of their potential trade deal, suggesting one of the key stumbling blocks toward an accord had been cleared, although Beijing never agreed that the issue had been settled.

Then, before traveling to Beijing for another round of talks, Mr. Mnuchin said that the trade talks were “getting close to the final round of concluding issues.” After, as he and Mr. Lighthizer prepared to board the jet home, he tweeted on May 1 that the meetings had been “productive.” Mr. Lighthizer shared that assessment, even though he and Mr. Mnuchin have often held differing views on China, according to people tracking the talks.


U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, Chinese Vice Premier Liu He, and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer in Beijing. PHOTO: ANDY WONG/PRESS POOL
Mr. Lighthizer is a longtime China hawk who has taken the line that the U.S. needs to stand firm in pushing for better access for U.S. companies in China and in confronting the Chinese over practices such as the theft of intellectual property. People close to Mr. Mnuchin say he shares the goal of changing the rules of trade but is concerned about potential fallout on financial markets from the lingering uncertainty.

“We were in the process of planning for a signing summit with President Trump and President Xi upon the completion of this agreement,” Mr. Mnuchin later told reporters. One of the issues was where to hold the celebratory moment: Washington or Mr. Trump’s golf estates in Mar-a-Lago, in Florida, or Bedminster, N.J., say Trump aides.

Several current and former White House officials say they viewed Mr. Mnuchin’s statements as overly optimistic, irking Mr. Trump as well as many staffers at the White House and USTR, who preferred to maintain pressure on China until “after the ink is dry,” in the words of one White House official. The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.


Skepticism grew in some U.S. quarters when China, in the U.S. view, started to renege on agreed-upon provisions in the days before last week’s talks began. Mr. Lighthizer in particular saw China “moving the goal posts” on certain details just as an agreement appeared within reach, according to White House officials.

Chinese negotiators let their U.S. counterparts know that they had serious reservations with the text. The Chinese were no longer willing to commit to changing laws covering intellectual property, forced technology transfer, subsidies and other issues at the heart of the dispute. They also objected to publication of all the details of the text, preferring a summary.


Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, left, and United States Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer wait for Chinese Vice Premier Liu He to arrive outside the Office of the United States Trade Representative Friday. PHOTO: ANDREW HARNIK/ASSOCIATED PRESS
To the Chinese, this was a matter of honor: The U.S. should trust Beijing to make the changes they said they would make, even if that meant changing regulations rather than laws. Besides, the U.S. was being unfair in refusing, upon the signing of a deal, to remove tariffs that had been assessed in the yearlong fight, the Chinese believed.

“There is a real desire on our end to keep the tariffs on,” one White House official said. “That is a sticking point.”

Another major area of conflict has been how to deal with what the U.S. sees as Chinese recalcitrance on clamping down on the theft of U.S. intellectual property, said people briefed on the talks. The U.S. initially had sought to appeal to Mr. Xi’s nationalistic tendencies, arguing that if China was as great as Mr. Xi portrayed it, why would it need to steal U.S. technology?

The Trump administration believed it had an agreement that included a satisfactory level of enforcement should the Chinese record not improve. “Not tiger teeth, but real enough to make a deal,” one of the people tracking the talks said.

Then Chinese officials said enforcement procedures would need to go through Chinese law-enforcement channels and couldn’t be guaranteed at the negotiating table, this person said, which U.S. officials didn’t view as a credible option.


Chinese President Xi Jinping and President Trump met after the G-20 leaders summit in Buenos Aires last year. PHOTO: KEVIN LAMARQUE/REUTERS
In Beijing, as the talks approached, Chinese officials believed they had some leverage, The Wall Street Journal has previously reported, because they saw Mr. Trump’s public criticism of the Federal Reserve and his desire for lower interest rates as a sign that he was worried about the future course of the U.S. economy and therefore may be more eager to do a deal. It was a miscalculation on their part; Mr. Trump has long called for low borrowing costs and also has repeatedly cited the enduring strength of the U.S. economy.

President Xi also was encouraged by a pickup in Chinese growth—the result of Beijing’s aggressive stimulus policies—and by a perception that the American economy is about to enter a down cycle. “Time is on our side,” said a senior official in Beijing. On the home front, Mr. Xi is wary of a potential political backlash as a result of any perception that he is conceding too much to Washington.

Chinese officials were therefore caught off guard, three days before the Washington talks were scheduled, when Mr. Trump said on Twitter he would increase tariffs, to 25% from 10%, on the $200 billion in Chinese goods because he saw the Chinese backtracking—the original threat he had set for a March 1 deadline.

He also said he would start the legal proceedings necessary to add tariffs to almost everything else the Chinese sold in the U.S., even if it meant the Chinese canceled their Washington visit.

A similar move by Mr. Trump in September—when he first went ahead with the tariffs on $200 billion in goods—had led to a cancellation of talks and put negotiations in a deep freeze until the dinner Dec. 1 in Buenos Aires.


President Trump shakes hands with Liu He, China's vice premier, during a meeting in the Oval Office of the White House. PHOTO: ANDREW HARRER/BLOOMBERG NEWS
Shortly after Mr. Trump’s announcement of the tariff increase, Beijing’s trade negotiators, who had booked Air China tickets to Washington, received an urgent order: Stay put until further notice. “Looks like we’re not going,” one of them said early Monday morning.

Up until that moment, China’s leadership had expected the trip to bring months of negotiations to a close, according to Chinese officials close to the negotiation process, given that Chinese diplomats were already in discussion with their American counterparts about a possible summit between Messrs. Xi and Trump to finalize a trade agreement.

Tariffs Take a Toll
Trade between the U.S. and China has fallensince the two countries imposed duties oneach other’s exports last year.
Change from a year earlier in the value ofmonthly exports
Source: U.S. Census Bureau
%
U.S. to China
China to U.S.
2018
’19
-40
-30
-20
-10
0
10
20
30
Now, the pressing question for Beijing became: Should it pull out of the planned talks to adhere to its longstanding public position that China doesn’t negotiate under threat? Or should China bite the bullet and still send the delegation to avoid a complete collapse of negotiations?

The Chinese side wanted more information from Washington before making the decision. But senior officials knew news of Mr. Trump’s tweets would inevitably cause market anxiety. The first order of business Monday morning: China’s central bank sped up a plan to release more funds for banks, a stimulus measure aimed at calming jittery investors and businesses.

State-backed funds were also instructed to buy what was necessary to prevent a free fall of shares. China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman released a statement at Monday’s regular press briefing that said only that the Chinese delegation was “preparing to travel to the U.S.” The spokesman didn’t say when the team would depart or give additional details.

On Tuesday morning, a group of officials at the vice minister level, including Liao Min, a trusted aide to Mr. Liu and a vice Finance Minister, and [censored] Shouwen, a vice Commerce Minister, reached the conclusion the talks should proceed, a position endorsed by Mr. Xi though expectations of a positive result had fallen sharply.


Port workers in China's eastern Shandong province. China's economy beat forecasts according to data released in April. PHOTO: AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
The U.S. side made some calls that turned off the Chinese, too. By insisting that it wouldn’t remove any tariffs upon closing a deal, the U.S. gave Beijing little incentive to accept tough conditions. The U.S. position remained firm: no tariff removal until Beijing showed it would carry through on the commitments it made under the deal. On top of that, the U.S. wanted China to pledge not to retaliate if the U.S. were to reimpose tariffs if it found China in violation of some provisions.

Mr. Trump on Thursday let it be known he didn’t want the U.S. to appear soft on China, according to one person briefed on the matter.

The two days of negotiations went amicably nonetheless, according to people tracking the talks. Messrs Lighthizer and Mnuchin, who both were in the discussions, took Mr. Liu to a working dinner at the Metropolitan Club, a ritzy private club near the U.S. Trade Representative’s headquarters that is a Lighthizer favorite. Mr. Liu continued the talks on Friday despite the U.S. implementing the higher tariffs very early Friday morning.

Later that morning, Mr. Lighthizer greeted the Chinese envoy at the door of the USTR office—a gesture he rarely makes, but one which he could be sure would be captured by photographers and camera crews waiting outside.

By then, though, the U.S. team went into the talks not expecting to do a deal, figuring they would have a “non-meeting,” according to one person briefed on the discussions. U.S. officials at least wanted to make sure they didn’t leave with a complete break. The goal of the meeting was to be able to say the U.S. negotiators were still trying, this person said.

In an interview with Chinese media Friday, Mr. Liu disputed U.S. accounts that China reneged on commitments it had already made as part of the trade talks. “We are very clear that we cannot make concessions on matters of principle,” Mr. Liu said. “We hope our U.S. colleagues understand this.”


China's Mr. Liu with Mr. Lighthizer during a meeting with President Trump. PHOTO: CARLOS BARRIA/REUTERS
In a commentary Saturday, the official People’s Daily said the text of any trade agreement “must be balanced and expressed in a way that is acceptable to the Chinese people and does not undermine the country’s sovereignty and dignity.”

With a deal now in limbo, with no formal plan to resume, the key to future developments may be in the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Xi. Each of the leaders has emphasized their personal rapport through the dispute. Mr. Xi sent Mr. Trump a letter as last week’s talks began, saying, according to Mr. Trump, “Let’s work together, let’s see if we can get something done.”

Mr. Trump after the talks ended Friday said on Twitter: “The relationship between President Xi and myself remains a very strong one, and conversations into the future will continue.” He added tariffs “may or may not be removed depending on what happens with respect to future negotiations!”

“At this point, it seems that the only way to break the impasse is through direct dialogue between the two leaders,” said one Beijing official.

The two leaders are expected to meet at the G-20 meeting at the end of June, if they don’t meet earlier. After Mr. Liu jetted off back to Beijing, Mr. Lighthizer released a statement saying that on Monday USTR would “begin the process of raising tariffs on essentially all remaining imports from China.”

Well I'm not the one who has spent day after day on here talking about how busy I am and how busy I am and how many widows I'm buying while posting on the internet all day. That sir would be you.

I think we both know that's nothing more than a talking point.

Just wait around..things could get a lot cheaper. Most of the money guys said that if they don't come to a deal and we drop the other shoe and tariff the other 325 billion (which hasn't happened yet), we will be in market correction territory with drops in the 7-20% range

North (can i call you north?) and Mgh, my biggest worry right now is that under obama, we were recovering and then had the economy rolling, but its a glass house economy. now with trump due to the massive amount of deregulation and unneeded stimulus through the tax cuts, we went from a glasshouse economy to a house of cards one, if you get what im saying.

all it takes is the wrong move for crap to start going sideways. and with this trade war heating up with no signs of slowing down, combined with the global cool down that is currently happening, FURTHER combined with the fact that these companies simply poured most of their savings from tax cuts into stock buybacks, i feel like the economy can take in a heartbeat.

under obama, we added a crap ton of jobs, but most of those jobs required education. under trump, we're adding the same jobs without addressing the education needs for our americans to compete with foreign labor, and we're adding these service jobs that can disappear with thanos snapping his fingers.

i dont like any of this right now.

And that would make me a buyer like I was during the Christmas Eve Massacre.

Those profits are sitting in Treasuries, waiting to go to work again.

This is what happens when you have boys do a mans job

LMFAO

Yep, I'm doing the required office work...almost 700 posts in 6 years damn I need to slow down on here

I have more posts than I ever thought would be necessary but when you have so many in here that desperately need guidance, how can you sleep at night if you deny them that wisdom.

at this point, the only way we can compete with chinese labor when it comes to manufacturing is.....automation.

Xi Jinping should write Trump a nice letter. Then he may fall in love with him like he did Kim Jong Un.

How many in the past week? Business must have really slowed down!

Take a look at BOTZ. It is nearing a buy.

good call on the ETF. if it hits 18 i might buy

I agree with 40....so many need guidance! I'm 53 yrs old Pit, something I learned looooong ago...assistants are wonderful....she keeps asking whats so damn funny in here!!!

It's good thing I'm the boss or I would fire myself

I can't make up my mind about you. On the one hand, you seem somewhat intelligent and well spoken, but on the other hand 40 clings to you and you say some stupid ass stuff. I think the problem is your loyalty to Trump.

I started out doing the kind of work, running the same kind of business you do now and was a die hard republican back then; so we have some things in common. However from your posts, I'd say you are in your 20s or 30s so most of what you think are pearls of wisdom that you are dropping are in reality turds you are trying to polish.

I've actually been reading everything you've had to say and tried to be open minded to your points of view. I've stayed off your back and not went at you to hard on our differences because I kind of like your fire. But bro, the way you are coming at Pit and Swish who both have way more board and life cred than you... well let's just say I thought you had more common sense before most of your recent posts.

Take some advice, you don't want to be 40. You don't want to spend your days waiting on your government check, hating 'the other' that you think takes from you, sitting in your trailer park downing discount beer all month until the money runs out... You don't seem like you want to be that guy, so don't.

I can tell you don't really believe some of this Trump stuff you are pushing. Trump is a cancer on America and any patriot or veteran that gives a damn about our country can see that plain and simple. He's not cute, funny, smart, or honorable... He's literally the worst president we've had in my lifetime. He is a disgusting dumbass conman taking stupid people on a trip down hate and fear lane so he can be in power.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't trust Trump alone in a room with your daughter, wife, life savings, or even the day to day operation of your business... why the hell would you continue to support him as POTUS?

Yeah, I'm 60 and I would fire you too.

You know OCD, I respect that

I'm 53 btw in case you missed that. As far as Swish and Pit,I like them both. Most of my replies towards them is just fun and tongue in cheek. However, your premise is that it's ok for them to dish it but don't you dare feed it back

What I find comical is the unwillingness to learn on here or just admit you're wrong. Check my post history, you'll find the statement; 'I stand corrected' on a few occasions. Dude, I've failed miserably on numerous occasions in business. I'll talk about those and I OWN them.

I've been following Trump since 1986. The guy is a womanizing piece of crap, a liar, an egotistical moron. What he taught me over the years was how to recognize opportunities. The ins and outs of real estate. Truth be told, Jack Welch is my all time fav CEO, but I digress...There's a lot I like about Trump and a lot I despise.

I admire your liberal passion but don't agree with your views. That would have nothing to do with us sitting down, having a beer and busting each others chops!

BTW, ending up in a trailer park isn't the worst thing that can happen as long as you're happy

I agree, which would create some jobs and cost others... the ones it would create are more skilled positions, the ones it would eliminate are more manual labor..

Where we have to be in the market is not just buying robots to assemble and calling it manufacturing, we need to be the ones MAKING THE ROBOTS... that's where the market will be.

Building an auto plant in Tennessee or South Carolina and calling it "manufacturing" when all they are doing is using robots from India to assemble parts that came from Asia and South America isn't exactly what most people envision as "manufacturing"...

You do realize those first ten years you were following him he lost over 1.1 billion dollars, right?

You might have even called him Brokeahontas. I mean if you were the type to just insult anyone who disagrees with you.

I agree DC, but even on that aspect, no politician from either side is addressing that.

So much reactionary policies and not enough proactive ones.

I know a lot of bright kids who are getting into robotics and automation, the field has been growing for a while now.. the problem is that all of this interest is on the design side, whether we will be able to afford to build them and be competitive is the other side of that coin...

Hmmm, I recall a post I made that Trump pointed out a homeless man to his kids and said that guy is worth more than me right now. The difference was that guy was living on the street. Trump was still flying around in his personal jet.

Insulting those that disagree with me....pot kettle Pit

Hey, I don't make the news, I just report it.

Learning economics from man in the process of losing 1.1 billion dollars isn't something you can point a finger at someone else for.

I would think that if you can live like a billionaire but still show losses on paper, thereby avoiding paying taxes... there is something to learn there....

You might hate the ethics behind it but if the law allows it and he has figured out how to use it......