DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Vets Talk to Baker

Just to clarify. You seem to be confusing the signing of Hunt with Dorsey putting Duke on the trading block. Those are two separate things.

Diam. I don't know what you want brother. Value is 80% perception. A players value is different to every team depending on the team's strengths, weaknesses and any sense of urgency there may be to fill a void.

Basically I'm stating what my demeanor as a GM would be, given the circumstances. Nothing more.

That said, we will get a 5th or better... Or at least a player we can mostly agree would be worth that pick. I would bet on it. And Drew? He's not some big scary monster, he can't force anything. Duke is under contract and his play for this team is a luxury, not a necessity.

To be honest. I think Drew was hired because Duke was embarrassed about his previous representation and knew they led him down a road that would not likely get him what he wanted. There's a rapper in the background throwing out veiled threats and cryptic tweets for crying out loud. They told him to be a squeaky wheel and the Browns would bow to his wishes - they were wrong.

Drew will help see this through to an amicable end, save a few headlines in the media that will try to make a mountain of a molehill from time to time. You said Drew was hired to "force something", I say he was hired because the message from Browns brass was "slow your roll" or they will take their good 'ole time. And the writing was on the wall that they weren't likely to deal with his current representation.

And just to clarify, because you mentioned it, and it's unlikelihood. I was talking in terms of all the things that could happen in the full sixteen weeks til the trade deadline, not that we would magically find a trade partner because of a TC injury.

If the bet is to get a fifth rounder or better in a straight up deal, I'll take that bet.

But I don't think that's the way things will play out. Dorsey knows that's a fantasy and will look for a deal that involves players or players and picks.

It's the best way to get good value. Like I said earlier, show me one case in the past five years where a team gave up a 5th rounder straight up or better for a situational back.

I don't believe that for a second. He hasn't even been a squeaky wheel. Baker made more noise about it than Duke ever did.

I think Duke wants out and he went out and got the agent that has the best shot of making that happen.

I agree w this 100%, and have said so in the past.

If your talking about KJ’s stance here i agree ... chill ...

I assigned a value to him ... your smarter than me so u can too ... *L* ...

I say a 6th or 7th or a marginal player ... if its more than a marginal player we’ll throw in a draft pick ...

See how easy ...

I also agree on Drew .. he don’t scare me none .. ... when u hire him u hire him to get every single penny u can out of a deal or to force a move .. he’s been in this situation NUMEROUS times .. and his clients have done the same thing ... sat out almost every single time ...

Drew’s not gonna intimidate us but thats not gonna change whats gonna happen ...

I have been a firm believer since day 1 that Duke has way more value to this team than a 4th or below ... he has a roll for AT LEAST the first 8 weeks ... now .... i see either a trade or a sit out coming ... not the result i think the org wanted ..

The only other option at this point is there holding out for a better offer ... but thats predicated on a TC injury ... and if that was the case ... why would Duke have hired Drew unless for some reason we didn’t tell Duke that was the plan ..

This looks like Duke knowing our plan is to keep him at least until the bye and so he’s gonna force the issue ...

I hope your right bro .. i really do .. i just don’t see it but sometimes my vision isn’t exactly 20/20 ... lets hope thats the case here ...

There were a couple of us who thought we should have traded Duke for a player when this news first came out, which was before the draft and I think it was even before free agency. We also said that this situation w/Duke could become a distraction. The threads are there if anyone wants to go back and look at them.

I think it would have been much easier to trade Duke before the draft than it is after the draft. That's a tough deal. Sometimes you got hold them and sometimes you got to fold them.

Uh - no. He answered a question in an interview. Like you I wish he hadn't answered it the way he did. But that's over. He's not made another comment on Duke that I am aware of ... it's the media and the fans who won't let this non-story die and made it bigger than it is/was.

Go away.

Nice football take. Thanks. For the board police you sure do lead a terrible example.

Sure in regards to value.

Value is what someone is willing to pay.

That of course can vary with timing and need.

So, to net value out it is a moving target.

Draft picks from what round? Say it is week seven. And a like type player to Duke goes down. That could happen to more than one team. Duke could be viewed as a starter or a third down run/pass option. What would be his value? Dorsey would want a starter. Or, maybe a player that he likes that can fill a role.



I would rather trade for another player. In particular a offensive lineman.

Maybe at that time we would have another need?

Duke said less about wanting to be traded than Baker?? C'mon dude, you know way better than that. Duke has made statements every time the media has been in the room since Hunt was signed. Not statements about "still being under contract and doing his job", you know, the PC statements you keep imploring that Baker must make before the franchise implodes. Statements that say "I want to be traded". If he wasn't making them, his agent was. They're the ones who all but demanded a trade because he was "on the block" while the Dorsey and Kitchens said they didn't know where the trade talk was coming from, remember?

“I only want to be somewhere I’m wanted,’’ Johnson said. “At the end of the day, that’s all this is about, being somewhere you’re wanted. In my case, the moment I’m not wanted anymore, I think it’s best that we find a middle ground and we do what’s best for the team. If you don’t want me here, there’s no need to keep me or force me to be here if you don’t want me here.’’

“No, it was me being put on the trade block a month before I requested a trade,’’ he said. “I was kind of put on the trade block to see what the team could get, and at the end of the day, I understand the nature of the business. I understand John Dorsey’s job is to do what’s best for the team and the organization. Again, if that’s getting rid of me for a bigger piece and a better piece, then I’m OK with it.’’

“I just think it’s better for me to get ahead of this, and if I’m going to be with a new team, I prefer it be before midseason just to give me a fair shot and a chance to actually make a difference and play,’’ he said. “Going in mid-season is kind of tough, as you’ve seen with Carlos (Hyde). They have their guys, they have their system and you’ve just got to play catch-up.’’

Translation? If they don't trade me soon, they're being unfair to me, not giving me a shot to catch on with a new team. If that's not a "squeaky wheel" in your world, so be it, I guess we just see things differently.

And to all of that, when asked the question, Baker said the distraction was self-inflicted. He was 100% correct. How you equate that one statement to Baker saying more about the situation than Duke is beyond me lol.

Then there is the squeaky wheel in terms of complaining about PT and "touches", that's been going on for two years. When it's not words, it's demeanor, firing the ball into the bench after a solid run or the constant "Joey Bosa" shrug after every play that the fans yell "DUUUKE" - as if to say "Yeah, I don't know what's wrong with these idiots either."

Duke insists that "being traded" has nothing to do with Hunt. He says he was "put on the block" way before Hunt came along. It's basically BS, talk of Duke being traded started when teams started inquiring, shortly after Hunt was signed... The Eagles, the Cowboys, the New York Jets and Houston Texans were all part of the rumors. They inquired about Duke the same way every team in the league inquires about hundreds of players, pre free agency. Duke turned that into "they don't want me anymore" and ran with it. Squeaky wheel.

You know, I didn't see anything wrong with a single word he said. He was respectful toward Dorsey and did not make a single negative comment towards one of his team mates. It actually sounded pretty classy.

I was talking about the "squeaky wheel" thing, Fate.

J/C

Squeaky wheel doesn't have to mean complaining or moaning or being abrasive. Duke wants out and he has wanted out for a good while.

This is why I wanted to get rid of him 2 months ago. I might move forward with him for a while longer, but seriously, if a 5th is the best we can get for him, that puts him close to the cusp of just letting him go. Just wash your hands and cut the guy. Hilliard is as good as him.

How Drew gets the credit for Ogbah being traded to KC is beyond me. We were actively looking for the best deal, and wound up with a player from our GM's old team. Yeah, I'm sure that Drew had a ton to do with that.

We don't know what Rosenhaus will get. In a traditional set-up, I understand your point to a degree. Maybe Duke agreed to paying something is a deal gets done.

Also, I don't believe agents get a lump sum when a player signs. It is probably paid in installments on a yearly basis as the player gets paid.

A agent isn't going to sign on a new player in an existing contract without getting paid for the services he or she will perform over the next 3 years of Dukes contract.

Even you, who think agents are horrible people would have to agree that would be pretty stupid. Agents don't just get their player signed and then never do anything fo them until the next contract cycle. Most also perform tax and financial advice as a part of the deal. Today, signing with a agent means siging with a company with a team of experts in various fields.

The player signs then doesn't have to worry about dealing with 2-3-4 other people. All they have to do is concentrate on playing and conditioning.

In many cases, the agent does more than contract negotiation. Some contracts do more management.. shoe deals .. advertising.. money management .. legal representation.

I'm not confusing anything, but it appears that Duke is.

I have no clue what you're trying to say here. Signing a player is adding someone to the roster. Attempting to trade a player away is something completely different.

I'm not saying that I agree with Duke but I understand the difference and how someone may react differently under each situation.

IIRC, late last year Duke expressed some desire to be traded, but another veteran talked him into not disrupting the team like that. Once Duke made that public, the Browns received calls about Duke. I don't know that I ever read about the Browns opening talks with another team about Duke.

I never heard that one. Do you have a link for that?

I'll have to look for it later. It seems to me that he calmed down in season after speaking to Tyrod ..... but I'm not 100% that it was Tyrod.

It's not a big deal. I just don't remember that. I do remember a report or two that said Duke asked for a trade after hearing the Browns were thinking about trading him. I'll provide a link if you want.

I would assume the agent gets a prorated part of the signing bonus and then paid each year accordingly. Wouldn't make much sense, if a player wanted to change agents, for the previous agent to have been paid the bulk of the contract payout upfront. That may be what you mean with your statement, I don't really know - mostly posting out of curiosity.

I remember that as well. I think the "trade" thing was mostly unverified rumors though. The story came out to reveal that Tyrod gave Duke a pep talk and helped ease his frustration with his lack of touches and limited role. Reading the quotes from Duke in this story shows that he was, in fact, pretty frustrated.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/10/duke_johnson_frustrated_by_his.html

I do remember that article, but I don't remember the part about Duke expressing some desire to be traded. I remember Duke saying he was down and that Tyrod helped him develop a more positive attitude.

People are going to probably lose it again, but it seems to me that ever since Baker made his comments, the perception of Duke has went from almost all positive to negative.

FWIW, my perception of Duke is no different today than it was last year.

If he's damaged his rep, it's self-inflicted. He is a professional and I expect him to do his job. He's trying to do what's best for him - whatever and why-ever that may be - and as long as he does what he's supposed to do while he's here...perfect.

BTW, Baker did not "make his comments". He answered a question and he's the face of the franchise. He could have just said "No comment" or that's a question for X. But that's not what team leaders do. They focus on the team and everyone doing their job. This stopped being an issue by the end of that day.

Yeah, that's the article. I thought he said that he considered asking for a trade, but moved off that after talking to Tyrod. I guess I have a faulty memory. Getting old sucks.

Actually, when it comes to the career and trade debates between team mates and the FO, that's usually what they do.

But he's still young and will learn over time.

Hey YTown. Just so you know, I didn't think you were lying. I have seen others resort to that type of thing, but you aren't that way.

I just spoke up because I have a pretty good memory and I didn't remember him asking for a trade and because others might have run w/it and tried to paint Duke as a bad guy.

I do think, but am not sure, that there might have been some bad blood between Baker and Duke last year. If I remember correctly, Duke made a comment early on about sticking w/Tyrod and to not be switching qbs. That isn't the exact phrasing, but it was along those lines. Later, I saw Duke on the sideline making an exasperated face at Baker after the latter threw his second interception. I don't think Baker is the type to forget stuff like that.

I wonder why no one ever says that Duke was just replying to a question when he talked about wanting to be traded? What, did he chase down reporters and say: "I have a scoop for you guys. I want to be traded." LOL

I never understood the rationality of the argument "he was just answering a question." LOL........that's what always happens. Players don't chase down the media and just give them quotes. They respond to questions. Some do a better job than others. Please see Jarvis Landry's answers when asked about the situation.

No problem.

Here's how I see it:

Duke let it be known publicly that he wanted to be traded. That gave life and purpose to a reporter's question. No one but Duke created that.

When Duke - the wise and mature veteran - was asked the question about wanting to be traded, all he had to say was "No comment" or "that is between me and X". Sound familiar?

The bottom line is that had Duke said that, the issue would have died right there.

I would agree with this...

I also would be surprised if Baker would change his response if asked the same question again... even after the rumors that "vets talked to him."

The common misconception is that Baker is young and immature and needs to grow up or that he'll eventually learn. I don't find his actions that of an immature leader. I believe he's a passionate player who wears his emotions on sleeve. I find it refreshing and necessary for the city and our franchise.

I think I rest my case on that because we now actually have a waiting list for season tickets and that is all thanks to our new quarterback.

I'm not just saying that because he's a Cleveland Brown. I would still root for the kid if we hadn't drafted him. In fact, I'd probably have a hard time rooting for the Browns if we had passed on the best prospect from the draft a couple years ago when he was in our mits. We've done that plenty. I still have friends who think it was a mistake to draft him. Unreal.

The "vets" we've had haven't exactly won us much. I'd much rather read stories where "Baker talks to vets" or "vets listen to Baker" because that's what this franchise needs in order to win.