DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Trent Williams

Hmm I’d be willing to take Trent and a late rounder to take his contract of their hands

Oops - wrong thread!

I would hope that KJ and Freddie are not fooled by Robinson’s sudden uptick in play ... sounds to me like a ONE YEAR WONDER that’s looking to cash in on a contract year ... OR maybe he’s grown up and matured ... IMO one hit wonder is way in the lead ...

I’d go with Williams even at his age and injury history ... hes a proven really good LT ... i pray and think (if the reports are true) were gonna get a pretty damm good LT in Robinson this year ... then hes gonna wanna cash in and thats when things get dicey ...

For now i’ll just enjoy the season i am hoping we get from him cause he has the skill set to be really good ...

He’s always had an elite skill set he just never wanted to work at it ... he may have grown up and if we sign him long term i pray thats the case ....b ut from the outside looking in, to me it screams contract year motivation ....

No matter how bad things are ... unless the skins go full re-build there’s no way they trade him ... and Gruden is on the hot seat (right or wrong ...) so there’s no way he’s gonna want him gone ...

IF hey do hopefully he don’t break my heart like Thomas, Peppers and Daniels did ... POO ON THEM ... *L* ...

I think Trent Williams makes more sense to me than Mike Daniels did. But, who am I, but just a fan? However, as a fan who knows the team we all know that since JT left LT is a question mark. Once FK and GW came in and made changes and adjustments the line played really well, but it is still a question mark. Robinson is a great player, but he also hasn't played to expectations. Trent Williams would definitely help secure it.

j/c

I think Robinson - with this team, Baker and Campen - is worth the gamble of seeing what he's got. I would think that he could play RT.

The Browns offensive line was ranked second overall by PFF last year, trailing only the Steelers.

My take is they are not as bad as you are claiming and that you don't need a Pro Bowler at every spot on the line. I don't think PFF grades are gospel, but you don't get to second overall if you suck.

Losing Zeitler is a big concern, but there are worse units on this football team.

Also, it irks me a bit that our rookie QB and RB get all this praise and the OL gets abused by people. I think some of Baker's success was due to his play. Another factor was Freddie's play calling. And a third is how much freaking time the OL gave him when that first read wasn't open because Baker was slow going through his progressions. Likewise, the OL opened up some huge holes for Chubb. When they didn't, he was tackled behind the LOS.

I think Baker and Chubb are both good players, but it annoys me a bit that not only are people not giving the OL props, but they are dissing them.

That's my take.

Kitchens radically changed things when he came in because Mayfield was sacked, hit and scrambling a lot during Hue's time. This is also what got Hue fired because Dorsey had seen enough. The losing was bad, but our #1 QB asset was possibly going the route of Couch if he continued to get hit.

Once FK came in the OL played significantly better, Robinson was swapped in and the play calling allowed for BM to be a lot lighter on his feet and allowed for their to be offensive players in position to make plays. Thanks to his line, BM also had more time to focus as well as quicker release time to get it to his players.

Point I am trying to make...we were a different Offense in the 2nd half of the season. I agree that the line was much better...I do worry a bit about the left side only because we only saw a handful of games with Robinson and now Zeitler is gone. But, as somebody else said...if Dorsey sees concern he will no doubt hit the waiver wire to help secure it.

Your facts are off. I'm not blaming you for that because the misconception has been repeated so often that one might think it's true.

It was NOT Hue's offense. It was Haley's offense.

Btw......Bitonio is the LG and he is one of the highest ranking guards in the league. Zeitler played on the right side.

Freddie did a great job of having Baker make quick decisions w/his first read. But, the fact is that Baker held the ball a long time before Freddie took over and he held it too long if that first read was not open. He struggled going through progressions. In his defense, he was a rookie and wasn't asked to do that in college.

But, my point is that the OL deserves some credit and they were not trash. I don't think they are trash now, although I admit losing Zeitler is a big loss.

I know Bitonio is LG. I spent an afternoon (at columbusdawgs tailgate) with his girlfriend (now wife) and best friends during his rookie year. I also know he is one of the best LGs in the league. I was talking about LT is my concern on the left side. I think that is a legit concern or at least question mark as we head into the season. But, I also recognize the dramatic improvement between Harrison and Robinson as well as FK's offense.

Agreed on Haley part, but I think Hue had a lot to do with it too. Kessler and Kizer were also running for their lives and being destroyed in that offensive scheme (and we had JT!).

PDX, you said this:



How am I supposed to interpret that?



No, that is not true. Do you not remember the hysteria that occurred when Hue said he might actually become involved w/the offense? It was Haley's gig.

I was commenting on the Oline as a whole as your statement above was they were ranked 2nd. I was making the point that it is a legit unit question as we have questions at LT and now Zeitler on the line also being gone creates questions w/the unit that was in place. I agree, however, that it reads clumsy so I understand the point you are making. That's somewhat the fault of a digital message board rather than physical conversation and typing quick. I think you would have understood my point if we were talking in person.




I do remember that hysteria. I think it's interesting however, that in Hue's time (and Haley's) the QBs got destroyed and almost overnight when FK called plays the QB hits took a dramatic drop. Is that Haley, is it Hue? Probably both, but Haley was also only here for half a season and Hue was here for 2.5.

I see what you are saying about the OL now. I misunderstood.

I do not agree w/you about the Hue/Haley thing. The personnel was very different. In fact, Hue wanted to add some of the things that Baker did well in college to our offense and Haley resisted. He kept saying "it's a process."

That's cool and I respect that.

What about Wylie vs Campen? Do you know anything about Wylie's successor and was Wylie even a good coach? I mean....yeah, they played great in the 2nd half, but was it FKs decision to bring in Robinson? If so, why didn't Wylie see that he was clearly the better of the two? Did Haley or Hue oversee Wylie's decision on roster to play Harrison?

I researched Wylie when we hired him. He was very well respected.

I have not researched Campen. I read a few good things about him from some posters, but I'm don't have enough knowledge of his past to make any sort of intelligent comment. Some of the stuff sounds good, but I just don't know.

I have a theory on why some of the coaches and players were moved and it is far different than the opinion of many folks on here. I will not expound on it because it will only lead to problems. The past is past.

Assuming Dorsey, Wolf and Highsmith all recommended or vouched for him to FK as he was a Packer.

I’m not sure why your defending our tackles .... neither was even average .....

Robinson gets way to much love for a cat that was flagged for holding 10 TIMES IN 8 GAMES

http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/g-robinson-cleveland-browns?year=2018

I didn’t feel like digging for individual stats .... the league average for holding penalties per team was 23 for the season (that may have been accepted ... i’m not sure ... two of Greg’s were declined) .... at Robinson’s pace he would have committed 20 ALL BY HIMSELF over the course of the year ...

That’s HORRIBLE .... i'm not sure how your defending that dude ...

IF what were hearing out of camp is true i expect a big year from him this year ... its a contract year and he’s either decided its time to work and take his craft seriously or 4 or 5 years in the “light went on” ... but last year it appears to me that he benefited way more from Freddie and his play calls then Bake and Freddie benefited from his play at LT ...

U said theres weaker units on the team ... which one(s) were u referring to ...

I said that the Browns were ranked second overall by PFF. I am saying that Baker had much more time to throw than maybe any qb in the league. I am saying that the criticism of the OL is a bit over the top. I'm saying they deserve some credit.

Question for you, bonefish. If baker goes thru the season virtually untouched and our running back gains 1000 yds at 4.8 ypc why do we care what Robinson or Corbett or bitinios pff grade is??

I think when Freddie emphasizes penalties so many times, it’s more or less directed at the OL

I'm not trying to stick up for Robinson, but let's look big picture here.

As a rookie, most every QB has trouble going through their progressions. As such, when their primary target is covered, it takes them time to go through their progressions. In those circumstances they hold onto the ball. That will lead to holds.

Another point, when your QB leaves the pocket, OL players don't have eyes in the back of their head. Suddenly the players they are blocking take a different angle that they have no idea is coming. This too leads to holding penalties. The defenders see exactly where the QB is going. They have a huge advantage there.

Do I think he had too many holding calls? Yes I do. But I also see the circumstances that contributed to some of them.

U did stick up for Robinson ... actually u made EXCUSES FOR HIM ...

I guess other teams don’t face those problems ... ...

They do. Funny how you knocked what I said but didn't actually try and address the points I made. lol

Did OL players grow eyes in the back of their heads? Do QB's scrambling make it much harder for OL players to know which direction the QB went and what the sudden shift in angles the defenders will take based on where the QB went?

I didn't think so....

And there’s the menZa combined with the hard headedness your name reflects shining through ... why would i a dress the issues WHEN EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL FACES THEM ...

your acting like some of those problems were unique to Greg and contributed to the number of holds he had when in fact there no different than the problems ALL LT’S and OLman for that matter face ...

If u drilled down on the rookie thing ... u had a point ... not all teams have a rookie qb ...

PS menZa ... the proper angle for u would be to look up how many sacks/holds the other LT’s in the league gave up combined .... cause I only focused on Greg’s holds with no mentions of sacks ... i believe he gave up no sacks ...

YOUR WELCOME ...

Once u can answer 0 + 0 correctly we can chat again ... til then ... u win ... i’m to harsh on Greg ...

I've already done that. He certainly didn't lead the league. But then he only played how many games again?

Like I said, they aren't excuses, even though you refuse to admit that. But they are circumstances that contribute.

You should stop. Seriously.

For a guy who says "stats are for losers," you are using ONE stat and making a determination on that particular player while ignoring everything else.

If you were unable to see that Baker had way more time to throw than just about any qb in the league, then I do not know what to tell you.

I will stop but because this will go nowhere not cause u got me or proved your point .. witch u did get me with the STATS ARE FOR LOSERS comment ... u got me .. good one ...

You appear to be having the same math problems as Pit in this thread ... ...

I never argued he didn’t have more time to throw ... NOT ONCE ... so i’m not sure what your point is with that comment ... i believe I pointed out one of the reasons the OL had to block for him for less time on some plays was directly due to Freddie’s playcalling and scheme ... Y-TOWN did a great job of that ... go read his post .. thats what i think ... *L* ...

I could say that your ignoring the coaching change and the affect that had on the OL ... bake having more time as a starter by the time Greg took over and bake having more chemistry with his WR’s ... and we could go back and forth ... i don’t wanna do that .... no fun and it’ll we’ll end up right where we are now ...

I’ll are your advice and stop and leave and go have more fun conversations about this year ...

AND, he didn't start nor did he get a lot of reps w/the 1s until FK changed the line roster.

I'm sorry if I came off as biting your head off. I just left the Baker thread and Pitt, Memphis, mac, and others were using words like stupid, feeble, pointless, asinine, etc and folks like peen were questioning my character. And you know what, Diam? I posted actual stats. How stupid and feeble.

Look, the only thing I will say is that you replied to me and only brought up one stat, which was the number of holding calls. It's a relevant stat and it should be mentioned, bro. But, I think it is wrong to use it in isolation.

And I didn't call your post "stupid" or "feeble" or "asinine" or "pointless." And I sure as hell did not question your character.

With that said, I apologize for my harsh tone on the first post.

As much as I hate to get in the middle of the shouting match...

My impressions was that Robinson was more of a plodder prior to coming here. Too much of a plodder to play LT in the NFL. I'm no Oline guru, so explaining his turnaround in an intellectual manner would be beyond my capability. I do know that a certain part of it is Baker and Freddie (playcalling and execution). Robinson's career arch was pretty clear before he showed up to Cleveland and jumped into a starter's role mid last year. Now, it's not so clear. As a battered Browns fan, I'm dreading his fall/regression back to his mean.

Getting this back to Trent Williams... here's what my magic ball is telling me. Trent is forcing his way out, and it doesn't seem like anything is going to change his mind. If he is 100% committed to getting out of DC, I think he can accomplish that. If we were to trade for him, I would imagine that that trade would hinge on getting a serviceable LT in return (on top of draft picks), and that would be Robinson. It becomes a simple act of trading out Robinson for Williams. Depending on Williams age, health and injury history, I think this would be a great move.

TRENT WILLIAMS
T, WASHINGTON REDSKINS

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Redskins are "having trade discussions" regarding holdout LT Trent Williams.

Howe notes the Patriots are expected to be in the mix if Williams is made available. Williams has stated he will not play again for the Redskins, so Washington may now be willing to deal the 31-year-old after signing OT Donald Penn. Health has always been Williams' biggest obstacle, but when on the field he's truly an elite left tackle. There would be plenty of suitors. Williams is under contract the next two seasons at base salaries of $11 million and $12.5 million.

RELATED: New England Patriots
SOURCE: Jeff Howe on Twitter

It will suck if the Pats end up w/Williams.

FWIW ..

Listening to a podcast by some O-line dude (Brandon Thorn) whose young and new at it in the public’s eye ..

U said in a post u weren’t sure of our OL coaches reputation ... this dude went out of his way to say it was a really good hire and that he had a really good rep in GB for developing young OLman ..

Like i said FWIW ...