I'd never ask you to change, but don't ask me to act like I don't see you when you step outside the lines. You can't condemn others for crap you do yourself bro. Nobody is perfect, and I have plenty of faults. If I do stupid crap I absolutely expect you to set me straight.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Well i just watched Trump blame 'the internet' for creating these people... He also blamed bigotry, hate groups, and white supremacy... then hit video games... smh
He did hit on mental illness, he directed the DOJ to put forth 'legislation' to combat this shootings, he called for non partisan gun law reforms, he wants the death penalty for hate crimes and mass shootings/domestic terrorism...
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/05/1910:42 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Yay, more mental health excuses. The same clown will never give black Americans in Chicago that excuse, either. Never have, never will.
But of course poor little Connor? Awww, just a misunderstood kid. He came from a nice family after all, and just needed an outlet.
You see it as an excuse, others see it as a reason...
The nature of the crimes between a public mass shooter and the typical inner city shooting are so different that it only stands to reason the motivation and mental capacity of the shooter is also very different. To think we should consider them the same way or use one as a basis of comparison for the other is ridiculous.
What are the causes of the inner city shootings? Turf wars, sleeping with somebody's woman, robberies gone bad, other crimes like drug deals, somebody feeling disrespected? Generally they are personal, they know the other person, they have a reason (maybe not a good one, but it is good enough for them)
That is a completely different mindset than a psychopath who sets out to kill as many people as he can that he doesn't even know in a effort to make himself famous, achieve some grand political point, old fashioned racism, or whatever the deranged motivation is...
that implies that all inner city shootings are due to those reasonings you listed.
also, that implies that feelings of disrespect and lashing out to get respect isn't a sign of mental health problems.
once again, black americans get no mental health excuses. you just proved my point for me.
mental health excuses seems to only be reserved for the racial majority in this country. your post just reenforced that idea.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
that implies that all inner city shootings are due to those reasonings you listed.
Yes it does.
Quote:
also, that implies that feelings of disrespect and lashing out to get respect isn't a sign of mental health problems.
I suppose it could be if those feelings are irrational.
Quote:
mental health excuses seems to only be reserved for the racial majority in this country. your post just reenforced that idea.
Maybe... mental health excuses, to me, are considered when there is no other rational explanation for the shooting.. perhaps it's just because my mind can't comprehend it...
Perhaps I should reconsider and assume that ANYBODY who takes anothers life for any reason other than straight-up self-defense might have mental issues...
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'm willing to consider it... however I will admit, I'm reluctant to create "easy out" excuses for every homicide that happens... of course, I guess I can see from your perspective that by only considering it for mass shooters, who are almost always white men, we are giving the worst murderers the easy out...
Going to have to think on this one for a while.. thanks for the perspective.
no thanks required. you provide plenty of perspectives for me to consider so its a mutal relationship.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and btw, im not saying to give automatically give inner city the mental health excuse.
im simply saying the standard is most certainly not being applied equally. black youth are constantly treated in this society as adults, yet this guy was 24 years old, and is being discussed as if he was still a teenager who was lost.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
that implies that all inner city shootings are due to those reasonings you listed.
also, that implies that feelings of disrespect and lashing out to get respect isn't a sign of mental health problems.
once again, black americans get no mental health excuses. you just proved my point for me.
mental health excuses seems to only be reserved for the racial majority in this country. your post just reenforced that idea.
There is some merit to your argument. I think it goes back to the perspective of the (alleged) underlying culture. Many cultures gave Warrior/Adult status when an individual took their first life. The culture kind of puts an individual on that path. "Gang culture" which is shoved in people's faces through various forms of media can be put in that group. Killing isn't really unexpected. There is no sudden break which would indicate the onset of a mental illness. "White warrior cultures" aren't really a publicized thing. Sadly, "gang culture" is generally the most publicized form of many non-white groups.
How would you describe "inner city culture" or even "African American culture"? Often "gang culture" is the shortcut substitute. (I'm not saying I agree that it should be that way, just making observations.)
The majority of Americans don't think about "white culture." Though there are white gangs, they are an insignificant (scientifically speaking, not in awfulness) percentage and don't really go into the public perception of "Caucasian culture."
When a non-gang affiliated white person kills someone, it is then unexpected and people go looking for reasons. Is it mental illness? Maybe not. Something went wrong in the individuals brain, though. Could it be a series of external factors hit the right combination?
It's easy to look at the perpetrator and try to find fault there. The alternative is sharing the guilt. Americans like easy and dislike feeling guilt. Mental illness is an easy catchall.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
He did hit on mental illness, he directed the DOJ to put forth 'legislation' to combat this shootings, he called for non partisan gun law reforms, he wants the death penalty for hate crimes and mass shootings/domestic terrorism...
Trump Undid Obama Rule That Added Mentally Ill People to Gun Check Register
Ohio lawmaker blames gay marriage, video games and Obama for Dayton tragedy
COLUMBUS, Ohio — An Ohio lawmaker is placing the blame for Sunday's mass shooting in Dayton on gay marriage, recreational marijuana, and former President Barack Obama.
Rep. Candice Keller (R-Middletown) started off her obscene post on Facebook by saying, "after every mass shooting, the liberals start the blame game. Why not place the blame where it belongs?"
The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discusses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals (open borders).
Keller went on to blame the problem on the disrespect of law enforcement, athletes "who hate our flag and Nation Anthem," lawmakers who don’t value the 2nd Amendment and “snowflakes, who can’t accept a duly-elected President.”
Attorney General Yost condemned her comments Twitter by saying, "No, m'am. The blame belongs to the evil man who killed those people."
Bemoans them blame game, then immediately plays the blame game. Well done. I had to look Middletown up and aside from her picture which, well looks like where she is from, meth county. Middletown is exactly where I expected it to be.
The problem is much deeper than "guns." But, you geniuses keep your heads buried in the sand and blame guns.
We are a nation that preaches hate. Look at this board. This side sucks. That side sucks. Moderates suck. We turn our backs on mental illness. We cater to those who cause problems in schools. We nurture the issues that troubled youths have. We promote violence in our video games, movies, and even TV. We isolate children. We bully one another on social media. We are obsessed w/painting the other side as the sole culprit in the country's problems. We demand that our rights are honored while we ignore the rights of others.
Those basic problems exist all over the world but there are hardly any mass random shootings like these (on this scale and frequency) outside of the US. I mean, Japan has lots of violent video games and where are the mass shootings there? I'm pretty sure there are mental health issues all over the world and plenty of hate to go around...where are the mass shootings? I mean, if those are REALLY the root of the problems, there would be mass shooting in every country, every day.
I'll agree that the gun itself is NOT the problem. The first problem is our complete unfettered access to them. The second problem is the TYPE of guns we allow to be sold.
Both of these issues could be eventually fixed in a sensible manner without taking away your right to protect yourself and your family.
------------------------------ *In Baker we trust* -------------------------------
I guess when Beto O Rourk a respected member of the left and democratic presidential candidate blamed Trump for the shootings on the MSM it was a respected opinion . J\C
See... now you want to get into a row with me ,Your hate for Trump is duly noted I was just pointing out the blame game comes from both sides in which I think is wrong from either side dialog not blame may be the best way to try and solve this problem, to keep us and our families safe in this crazy world that we share....Peace
The public demonization of a person or group resulting in the incitement of a violent act, which is statistically probable but whose specifics cannot be predicted: The lone-wolf attack was apparently influenced by the rhetoric of stochastic terrorism.
Stating facts is not hate. You can hate what people do. You can hate what people say. But that doesn't mean you hate them. But labeling someone as hating Trump is a convenient way of avoiding admitting or discussing the hateful, divisive things he says to splinter our nation and tear us all apart which he does consistently.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The public demonization of a person or group resulting in the incitement of a violent act, which is statistically probable but whose specifics cannot be predicted: The lone-wolf attack was apparently influenced by the rhetoric of stochastic terrorism.
Stating facts is not hate. You can hate what people do. You can hate what people say. But that doesn't mean you hate them. But labeling someone as hating Trump is a convenient way of avoiding admitting or discussing the hateful, divisive things he says to splinter our nation and tear us all apart which he does consistently.
Saddest part is, you don't see the irony in what you just posted.
as i've stated on all the other unfortunate threads we've had on mass shootings.
you can defend the 2nd amendment all you want. you can try to claim its mental health all you want.
at the end of the day, the majority of people who are tired of the "thoughts and prayers" nonsense which always leads to nothing being done is growing rapidly.
you can blame it on racism, or disenfranchisement, or whatever.
people are tired of the excuses, and people will vote for someone to change the laws regardless of what the pro 2nd amendment guys have to say.
yall better come with gun control measure before the progressives come with some for you. the constant rhetoric of doing NOTHING is not cutting it anymore.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Oh, it certainly works both ways when it comes to spreading hate. I'm just not sure overlooking some actual facts help the discussion. Such as.....
One Week After FBI Warning About White Supremacist Terrorism, Mass Shootings Strike El Paso and Dayton
ust over a week after FBI director Christopher Wray told the Senate that most domestic terrorist arrests in 2019 thus far have involved white nationalism, a shooter who aimed to attack “as many Mexicans as possible” killed 20 at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas on Saturday.
This isn't something that some left wing media is spreading. This came directly from the director of the FBI.
The saddest part is people refuse to actually address such things by blaming it on other things. I mean if it's a mental health issue, the mental health issue must be much higher among white supremacists.
They rationalize a huge problem that's growing quickly within our nation. They blow off any actual debate by saying, "You hate Trump!"
The sad part is, while you didn't come out and say, "You hate Trump", you do the same thing and don't really address the actual issue.
White supremacy is a big part of the issue. Did you plan to address that or just wish to continue your usual game?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Those basic problems exist all over the world but there are hardly any mass random shootings like these (on this scale and frequency) outside of the US. I mean, Japan has lots of violent video games and where are the mass shootings there? I'm pretty sure there are mental health issues all over the world and plenty of hate to go around...where are the mass shootings? I mean, if those are REALLY the root of the problems, there would be mass shooting in every country, every day.
I'll agree that the gun itself is NOT the problem. The first problem is our complete unfettered access to them. The second problem is the TYPE of guns we allow to be sold.
Both of these issues could be eventually fixed in a sensible manner without taking away your right to protect yourself and your family.
Is the access the problem or is it more our willingness to use them? Plenty of people have access and don't use them.
I was doing some thinking on the topic of gun violence and culture and your mention of Japan led me to think about how different countries have different "National cultures" and Hofstede's 6 dimensions.
The United States ranks very high on Individualism and very low on Long-term Orientation. I was kind of trying to find similar countries. Japan has a much lower Individualism score and a much higher long-term orientation. I'm having a bit of trouble finding another country with a profile similar to ours. South Africa is probably the most similar I've come across and has similar violence problems.
Thinking about those two ideas of high Individualism and low Long-term Orientation it kind of makes sense that we see more atrocities take place. We're a people that largely thinks about themselves and doesn't worry so much about the consequences. When you somewhat start at those extremes, the extremists within those countries would only be moreso.
Here's a link that includes a graph comparing those dimensions for a few different national cultures: Link
You can swap out the countries.
Just kind of taking the idea and thinking out loud. Feel free to comment/criticize.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
sorry, but one side does it MORE than the other, and it isn't close. its not equal whatsoever. one side is pushing hatred for others far more than the other side.
and that rhetoric of "both sides" does nothing but minimize the effects. one is clearly worse than the other.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and RIP to the victims in toledo ohio. my prayers are with those guys. horrible tragedy.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yeah, when one side has the leader of the free world spreading it all over the globe, because let's face it, the whole world listens when he talks, the competition isn't even close. But they like to pretend it is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
the segregationist, or mlk? or do like "both sides"
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
If it was a parenting problem ... or an ADD problem ... or an internet problem ... or a movie problem ... or a video game problem ... or a drug problem ... or a whatever else you want to deflect this to ..... then every other country in the world that has all those things would also be suffering from the same outbreak of mass shootings and gun violence.
Guess what - Gun violence in the USA outstrips the rest of the 1st world nations by a country mile. . . . so, I wonder what else is unique to the USA that could create all the gun violence? Hmmmm ? Or do you not want to face facts?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)