DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2019 training camp preview: Analyzing the offensive line

My sentiments exactly. Let's give him a little more time.

J/C

I’d be good with giving him time if we think he might eventually pan out (even into a solid depth guy) ... but I also don’t want us to keep him strictly because of his draft slot and/or if he isn’t showing the effort we are asking.

Of course, that’s not stuff that I’m privy to

Austin Corbett still in running for RG job

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/cleveland-browns-still-considering-austin-corbett-right-guard

Austin Corbett hasn’t seen work with he first-team offense at right guard since before the Orange and Brown scrimmage/practice on Aug. 3.

Corbett has been working almost exclusively as the backup center, while being shuffled at right and left guard with the twos and threes, but that doesn’t mean he’s out of the running for the starting job according to head coach Freddie Kitchens.

“No, he is not [out of the competition],” Kitchens said Sunday. “We have to have somebody that snaps the ball and not leave (C) JC Tretter on the field the whole game. Right now, Austin is working at center. We are working a couple of other guys at center that just are not getting the amount of reps.”

Corbett, who saw a combined 48 snaps, struggled mightily Saturday against the Colts backups and while Kitchens maintains the 33rd overall pick in the 2018 Draft is still in the running to start, his work tells a different story.

Corbett does not look like a starter and it’s clear that Kitchens is testing his versatility.

“When you do cut your roster down, you need a certain amount of guys that can snap the ball, a certain amount of guys that can play guard and a certain amount of guys that can play tackle,” Kitchens said. “If you ever have somebody that can play all three, you are kind of ahead of the game.”

While the perception is that Kitchens is running out of time to figure out what to do at right guard, he isn’t in a hurry to decide if he’ll stick with Eric Kush, who has been taking the majority of the one reps the last three weeks.

“We are going to continue to look at people,” Kitchens said. “I have a sense of urgency everywhere, but I don’t know that we are running out of time per se. I don’t know who sets the rules as far as to [when you have to name a starter]. I thought we only needed a starter by the time we get to September 8. That is the way I am approaching it. You probably would like to have one in place that Monday or Tuesday before. You may see something you haven’t seen in a guy up until then.

“I think a couple of the guys we have been playing there are just now getting kind of comfortable. We will see. We still have two games left and in theory six practices before we start preparation [for Week 1].”

Drew Forbes has gotten a look recently, and he saw time at both guard spots Saturday.

“He is continuing to get comfortable as far as knowing what to do and how to do it,” Kitchens said. “He is in the mix, and we will see where it goes. He is getting better. You see Drew getting better even within [practices].

“I think he got better as game went on. He was better in the game this week than he was last week in the game. He just needs to keep that upward trend. One thing I like to tell young guys is don’t make the same mistake twice. I don’t mind you making mistakes. Just don’t make it again. If we can continue to build our repertoire of that, then we will be OK, and that is at all positions.”

That gives me no good vibes...none.

Things are not looking good for the young man right now ... but its way way to early to write him off ...

tabber i’d love to see the stats on how OL drafted between 28 - 38 have faired between lets say 2010 - 2015 ... maybe one of the Depo humpers or sashiettes can find it ...

IMO spending all that cash on Hubbard was a much bigger mistake than drafting a potential bust at #33 ... the sashiettes always whine over VG being overpaid ... funny how they overlook Hubbard ... ..

The thing i love about the dawgs that want to cut bait with Corbett (not saying u do tabber) is that its not like we’ve 3 or 4 young dudes with potential were gonna have to cut to keep him ... we’ve got a FEW VETERAN BUMS we can let go of when we sign dudes off the waiver wire before we get to Corbett ...

I dunno man.

Forbes is going to make it and Lamm is no slouch as a backup swing T.

If they keep (9) guys...here's the locks:

Robinson
Bitonio
Tretter
Kush
Hubbard

Lamm
Forbes

That leaves two spots...who knows if one of the other guys - or two - are "ahead" of Corbett.

LT - Didn't work out

RG - Looks like it's not going to work out

C - Looked pretty practice-squad-ish against the Colts.

Maybe he can kick?

J/C

I know he’s PS eligible (and I’ve seen others suggest it as well) but I doubt he’d get past other teams to get there ... some teams are more desperate than us and he was drafted very high.

They don't have to keep 9 O line, some years they have started with 8. They don't have to cut a backup just because they don't start.
I think idealy if everbodys solid and versatile, you're better off keeping 8 instead of 9, give that spot to another position group.

Admittedly Corbett has been disappointing ... but what does that say about the two Veterans we signed? Neither of them have staked their claim to a job either.

My guess is that Kush will start the season as our RG, and we will not cut our rookie Forbes who I think will eventually stake his flag and claim the RG postion.

Lamm is the only viable canidate on our roster to be our swing OT. (Although we may still look to upgrade after the cuts)

They are not ready to throw in the towel on Corbett, so we have 8 roster spots on our roster taken up, with one more possible opening for another who may or may not be on our current roster.

J/c

Could somebody who is well-versed with OL play break down what Forbes’ strengths and weaknesses are at this point? What’s he need to improve? What’s his upside? Etc.

I was going to start another post but it makes sense to do it here

Anyone who tries to answer all your questions will be full of crap,we haven't seen enough of him to make that type of diagnosis.
The 2 or 3 plays I focused on him,one thought came to mind,cement shoes.
But of coarse I had a good buzz on by that time,and that thought was quickly followed up by I'm hungry,pastrami sandwich.

I thought Kush looked very good in pass pro in that first game. The amount of room we gave our qbs in the pocket was noteworthy.

I had a hard time getting good looks at the OL in the second game, so I can't comment on that game.

I wasn't making a case for keeping (9) OL, I was making a case for Corbett being a cut-possibility because we have (7) guys who aren't going anywhere and Corbett isn't one of those (7).

If we only go with (8), Corbett's chances get worse as there are several "viable" vets and some young guys fighting it out with him for that last spot. That was my point.

Tab (and anyone else),

Two things I read today about Corbet that are very disconcerting:

Lacks functional strength at the point of contact;

Lacks athleticism to move laterally with quickness.

I'm no guru here...but what position on the OL can you put a guy like that? I'm guessing his technique isn't great either - if for no other reason than he's not played inside or on the rightside until now.

Don't think I'm defending Hubbard but his pay isn't quite as bad as it seems if you dive into the details. His yearly cap hit is in line with a top10-15 RT. He's played near but id say below that level. Youll always overpay for a FA though so considering all that, assuming his play doesnt go down, it's not as bad as his total contract number might portray. He's also really easily cut after this year. Dorsey gave us as out that would stretch 4M of dead money over 2020-2022 but save us almost 7M a year should we be able to replace him. I think Forbes should get a shot next year at RT. He's got the feet to play wide.

Thanks for the info ....

I see nothing ... ?

I know, Dorsey missing on Corbett in the 2nd round is alarming. After all, he only picked a franchise QB, a pro-bowl rookie CB, and a stud RB in the first 2 rounds. That he didn't hit home runs on all 4 picks has me wondering if he's qualified for the job.

Good Grief.... After all the right moves, this may have been a stinker, but there are numerous “why did he do that” .... that have turned out better than expected..

Joel Bitonio @ #35 was a pretty good pick.

Yeah, I think a lot of us were hoping Corbett would turn out the same way and just play the other OG spot lol ... it hasn’t turned out that way of course

Dorsey had an outstanding draft last year, obviously. Every GM misses though and Corbett looks to be not a great pick. It happens.

I actually wonder what the thought process was behind trading Zeitler. As that trade was originally announced, it was Zeitler for Vernon with a slight move up on a later pick (155 for 132) that is not as valuable as it sounds. These trades were later combined with the OBJ deal, which led some people to strange ideas of who got us what.

I get it that Vernon is a good player too, and plays a higher value position, but I also think O-line is very important and high priority, especially with a young QB and new offense. That extra split second in the pocket can make a big difference.

I'm just saying, the plan seemed to be that Corbett was ready to take over, and we therefore had an abundance of interior linemen and we could ship one off in a trade. Now it looks like we severely weakened the RG position and have an upgrade at DE to show for it. I just wonder if we could have kept our RG and gotten another DE elsewhere.

Meh. Just thinking out loud (well, kind of)...

We are going to be inept at RG and kicker this year.

The question is...

Will it be too inept to win 10 games?

Was the plan Corbett taking over ?? I know that is what we were saying.. What the media thought .. but did Dorsey .. or any of his staff .. or Freddie actually say that ?? If that were the case .. then why sign 2 more Guards and draft one. I, for one, do not think the plan was ever definitively Corbett, I think the plan was exactly what has happened, bring some guards to camp and see what we can find out. Final cuts are not here. We did not get our starting Left Tackle til late last summer. It ain't ovewr til it's over...

Good points.

Of course the plan was Corbett taking over. Let's not try to over analyze this.

- He was taken as the first pick in the second round.
- The offensive guards now in the running for RG were signed AFTER Zeitler was traded so why would Dorsey make a deal to get rid of one of the best guards in football if he didn't already have the expected replacement on the roster.
- Corbett started as the offseason #1 RG. It was his job.

It is what it is and Corbett could still end up becoming the future right guard for this team but let's not recreate the scenario here.

j/c

I like Terry Pluto of the PD more when he writes than when he talks in those Cleveland PD videos. So he wrote this in an on-line article today. It offers some perspective about RG competition that I found to be reasonable.

Here is the article below...


Cleveland Browns: What is the message with Austin Corbett not starting? — Terry Pluto
Updated 8:11 AM; Today 5:00 AM

Terry Pluto talks Cleveland Browns: Offensive tackle Austin Corbett and draft talent
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By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio — You know the Browns are in good shape when fans and media are gnashing their teeth over Austin Corbett and the right guard situation.

I’m far more worried about the kickers than right guard, but there is a message here with how the Browns are handling their 2018 second-round pick.

When the Browns drafted Corbett, I assumed he’d be like another second-round pick from Nevada. That was Joel Bitonio, selected by former GM Ray Farmer in 2014.



Bitonio was a left tackle at Nevada. Corbett later replaced him at that spot.

The Browns immediately moved Bitonio to left guard in the NFL, and he was the opening day starter. He has held the position ever since and was picked to his first Pro Bowl at the end of last season.

When Browns GM John Dorsey picked Corbett at the top of the second round in 2018, there was some consideration of him replacing future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas at left tackle. Most scouts and draft experts viewed Corbett as a guard or perhaps a center in the NFL.

Last year, he was not going to take away jobs from guard Kevin Zeitler or Bitonio. Nor could he beat out solid pro JC Tretter at center.

But when Zeitler was traded to the New York Giants as part of the Odell Beckham/Olivier Vernon trade, right guard was open for Corbett.

So far, he has yet to win the job and it’s doubtful he will start opening day.

SERIOUS ABOUT COMPETITION

If the Browns were still in the massive building stage of 2016-17, they could start Corbett anyway and hope he grows into a viable left guard.

But the Browns are talking playoffs, and that’s a realistic goal. It also means they have to be serious about playing the best guys regardless of draft position.


Over and over, Coach Freddie Kitchens has been preaching “competition.” He wants jobs to be won, not handed to prized young players.

Rookie Greedy Williams is having a strong training camp, but he is battling with veteran Terrance Mitchell for a starting cornerback spot. So far, Mitchell is holding off the young man from LSU. Even if he doesn’t start, Williams will be on the field often. Teams need five or six defensive backs with all the passing in the NFL.

But only five offensive linemen play at a time, and it appears Corbett does not deserve to be one of them. Journeyman Eric Kush appears to be the likely starter at right guard. Corbett also had a rough day at center with two bad snaps and a holding penalty last week in Indianapolis. It’s clear he’s struggling with confidence.

YOU CAN’T ALWAYS BE RIGHT

Dorsey has a fabulous drafting record with the Browns. He has had four picks in the first two rounds of the 2018 and 2019 drafts, and three of them are impact starters – Baker Mayfield, Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward.

If it turns out Corbett is a miss, so be it.

Many draft experts were surprised when Corbett was drafted that high. But they also were surprised when Mayfield was the No. 1 pick and Ward was the No. 4 pick.


Very few of them saw Chubb being drafted No. 35, two selections behind Corbett.

The Browns should be patient with Corbett. Offensive linemen get hurt. Depth is needed.

In the meantime, who plays is important to the integrity of the front office/coaching staff. Players pay close attention to who seems to be given favored status that isn’t deserved.

For example, Dorsey traded veteran Carlos Hyde at mid-season because it was evident Chubb had emerged as the superior running back. The rookie from Georgia earned the position.

And for Corbett, that’s what he needs to do.

If the end result is OBJ, I still make that Zeitler trade 99 times out of 100.

While we may never find another Zeitler, there are always very good Guard prospects to be found in the 2nd round of almost every draft.

We might not have our guy this year, but we'll have him soon enough and Baker gets rid of the ball so quickly, we might not miss him.

We can point to plays in isolation and focus on them that the OL played bad in pass pro, but that is a false narrative. The OL gave Baker way, way more time than Winston got.

Every qb gets pressured. Baker stunk tonight and the OL was not the problem.

Just because he had more time than Winston doesn't mean they played well, man.

Baker was absolutely part of the problem, but he was absolutely not the entire problem. The OL absolutely shares the blame, as do the WRs & TEs.

I disagree w/you about the OL. I think they did a poor job in run blocking, but I thought they gave Baker more than enough time on most plays. Not every play. But, most plays. No qb has all day to throw on EVERY play. Baker has received more time to throw in his brief career than perhaps any qb during that time span.

I’m not as concerned with our pass pro, even after tonight ... our run blocking is an issue for me, though. We really haven’t even tried to establish a running game, so maybe that’s part of the problem ... but man, we just don’t seem to generate many lanes for our RBs

OL looked lazy on some plays and did not do their job well on pass protection. Runblocking was miserable overall. Baker had a discouraging night, and some of his frequent targets had dropsy. He was holding it too long at times, and the electricity wasn't there much. For playing a half, this offense took us out of the game. Hats off to FG team!

Halfway through the third, I was fairly sure we would give this away. Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call. Who needs cut is getting clearer to me. We also need to settle on a starting line and let them work as a starting unit soon. JMHO

Agreed here.