DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 23 Jets 3 Post game thoughts

DC, Baker wasn't in Berea at all during his time off. He didn't work w/a QB coach. He did work out in a gym. The amount of time he spent throwing to his teammates this summer was minimal. He did "take time away from football." I don't see how those things equate to him being a "hard worker."

Yeah. I do. He knew what it took to get Baker into a bad place and he took him there. The good passes were there to remind us of what is coming. Overall I thought Mayfield's accuracy was off and quite a few of the dropped passes were on him. I don't think we're quite there yet. That touchdown pass to OBJ was just stinking beautiful. And they looked vastly better than the first week so I'm not complaining.

Because establishing the run is going the way of the Dodo bird, and that is probably a good thing. Personally, I'd like to see more playaction plays from the offense. Use that the build up in the running game. Establish the playaction....to execute the run. Sounds crazy but this is the NFL. And it's most likely the right route to go down. More efficient overall.

That all aside, our run blocking isn't very good. That could be another reason why Chubb isn't getting many touches in that category.

I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, but this isn't the team I thought we were going to be. Maybe the hype got to me more than I thought.

I was expecting an explosive offense led by Mayfield, Landry, Beckham and Chubb... They had moments, but I was expecting more.

I expected the D to be stout but I didn't expect all the penalties that Miles was getting... What was it, 3 last night?

The good news, I saw vast improvement from the week prior and maybe that will bode well for us for next week. But next week, we are playing a damn good team.. If our Oline doesn't improve by next sunday, we are in for a real mess.

I think a lot of us, even after a win, have tempered some expectations now. Quite frankly, this isn’t a double digit win team ... at least most likely. This is still a team that is near .500 (maybe 9 wins) .. we should be able to beat the bad teams, most of the average teams, but will struggle with the good ones. To see our schedule coming up is a bit daunting to me

I think it is far too early to be assessing "sophomore slump". Two games down, barely time with the entire first unit playing together at camp and in preseason. This machine is NOT a well oiled machine...it has had its moments, but it has also shown it needs more time together to start gelling. I agree that we HAVE to play better on all three sides of the ball to beat LA.

I also have to concede that I was worried about the Hammer given his lack of experience. He was phenomenal last night. Pretty much on the ten or inside the ten on every punt. Great hang time too!

Myles should easily hit 15 sacks this season. At one point I thought he might get 15 last night! They simply couldn't stop him.

Any word on if Donald is playing Sun? Probably too early, but our line is going to struggle w/him.

I never bought into the hype. I was cautiously optimistic and I made a comment that we are still the Browns until we prove we are not the Browns anymore. However, I thought we would look better than we have. If we don't improve these next five games we could be looking at a 2-5 record or worse.

Bake’s the biggest issue with the O right now .... and Higgins coming back will not solve any of his problems ... NOT A SINGLE ONE ... I'm by no stretch happy with my boy Freddie but Bake’s the biggest problem ...

- he’s inaccurate as heck right now ... he still has his great throws but way to many are off target ... he missed a boatload of throws last night and he wasn’t real accurate against Tenn either ...

- he refuses to take the open underneath route and is forcing things downfield or getting pummeled cause he’s holding it too long ....

- he’s made exactly ZERO PLAYS out of the pocket so far this year ... last year he was like a machine outside the pocket ... so many BIG PLAYS he made after scrambling .... this year ... NADA ...

If this don’t straighten out NOW were in deep trouble with this schedule ahead of us ...

GOOD LUCK BAKE .... keep fantasy island empty .... *L* ...

The inaccurate throw to OBJ when he stepped up in the pocket was alarming to me ... that is DEAD NUTS for him usually. That’s a layup. Also, the one when he drifted right and tried to hit Landry on the sideline ... and it sailed out of bounds. He made that play dozens of times last year.

He’s not seeing the field as well, not as quick, and not as accurate. Gotta change

IMO, OBJ was held on the play. As he made his break, the DB held him and then Mayfield let it rip. I can't say for certain, but had he not been held, maybe he gets an extra half step and can make the catch. Remember, Mayfield ran downfield asking for a flag (we couldn't challenge because it wasn't PI, it was defensive holding).

I don't think that throw was completely on him in that situation. There were quite a few others that were high or wide, as you said, the one where he rolled right and tried the sideline throw, last year he hits that on the numbers.

Also, I haven't seen anything about Trevor's ankle. Is he okay?

U talking about the one where he overthrew an open OBJ by 10 yards and obj wanted a flag? ... if so, that was the first one that really told meBake was off ... then that miss to VG down the sidelines was even more eye opening ... including Bakes body language after the throw ...

It seems he’s lost all his confidence and thats HUGE FOR HIM ... he lives off of chips on his shoulder and the fact he thinks he can do anything he wants on the filed .... his confidence in himself is a huge part of his game and right now he looks like a dear in the headlights constantly after plays ...

This does not bode well for us if he don’t find himself TOOT SWEET!

On the OBJ one handed catch, from the sideline view, you can clearly see his face and eyes. Hard to understand why it was such an issue for the officials.

He was held ... no doubt ... but he was running almost parallel to the end zone at the time of the hold and Bake threw it 10 yards over his head .... being held didn’t affect how off that throw was ...

Can someone who recorded if check that please ... i’m pretty sure the hold didn’t alter OBJ’s direction to make the throw look worse than it appeared ... but i could be wrong ...

And that was just the one that made me go ... WOW .. he’s off ... he had many other throws that were just not accurate at all ...

I think it's a combination of Baker, play calling, and scheme.

I watched a special on Baker right before the season and they talked about how Freddie simplified things for him when he took over last year. They had him only reading half the field, went w/more max protection personnel sets, called a lot of quick plays, etc. If you have time, read the offensive scheme thread and the links that are in some of the posts. It's educational.

Baker is holding the ball too long and is either not seeing open receivers or is ignoring them. He was doing that last year under Haley's direction, too. But again, I think it goes back to scheme and personnel packages. He doesn't seems quite ready for those things. He's young.

The accuracy thing is wild because he makes some throws that are brilliantly accurate. The throw down the sideline that OBJ one-handed was an extremely accurate throw. Later, he threw a check down throw in the flat into the dirt. I think his poor throws come down to two reasons. The first is that his confusion creates indecision and that changes things for him. Other times, his lower body mechanics break down. Two separate issues, but both have been noticeable.

It's a work in progress. Both he and Freddie need to improve. They can. Hopefully, they do.

Thanks for the breakdown .... especially the confusion part ... that helped me understand part of the problem ... makes sense ...

Unfortunately it don’t make me feel any better .. *L* ...

I’ll read it over the weekend ....

I didn’t hear Greg Robinson’s name or number one time last night. Way to go Greg!

He had at least one holding call.

I suppose it will sound like an excuse, but based on the number of throws by Mayfield that were wild-high, its just possible that his wrist is not 100% from the hit he took on the sack/safety last week. Its hard to believe that a QB who showed really good accuracy as a rookie has become so scattershot in his 2nd season.

He's young. I hope he spends next off-season breaking down film. Watch coverages over and over and over. Booger was talking about how Williams was confusing Baker by showing one coverage pre-snap and then going into another coverage post-snap. I've made a ton of posts about pre and post-snap coverages over the years. It's a real thing that most fans and media folks don't talk about. The other thing he can do is work on his lower body mechanics. He has the arm, moxie, swag, accuracy, etc to be very good. He's gotta put in the work.

He had one hold, but yes, he played well.

Could be his wrist/hand as well .. that affects your accuracy of course. Good point

Mayfield was never very accurate out of the pocket. Last year he had a running game that was working.

My biggest concern the way we are playing right now its his health...

I don't think it has anything to do w/his wrist. I say that because he had some incredibly accurate throws and his velocity is supreme.

Man you guys are rough.

When was the last time we defeated ANY team by 20 points?????

We have been the victim of 20-30 point losses for 20 years!!!!!!

Oh, how you people forget.

2 years ago, we were 0-16! I said 0-16!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your impatience is really beyond words.

Baker has played 16 NFL games and you are all roasting him????

Give the man a little time to evolve before you compare him to Brady and Brees.

This team is YOUNG and learning.

There will be growing pains, but all your negative comments are just unbelievable.

It is like you are grading our team as a 5 year veteran team.

Quite frankly you are all disgusting.

GO BROWNS!!!!

J/C
If you follow Dan Orlovsky on twitter, he’s had some really nice breakdowns and criticisms of our offense ... check it out if you can, they’re videos

The way the Browns are looking atm is bad .. beating up on an undermanned team and not looking good in the process is what we are all talking about.

Granted,some of the calls were bad. I still do not understand the landing with your weight on a QB call. Coming off a block and trying to tackle, but adjusting your hit so you do not land on him is stupid.

but do not see 5 wins atm .. much less 10 -6

The high throws aren't wrist related and they're not accuracy related. They are height related. Would love to hear he has talked with Brees at some point to see how to corral this. I think it's something he's just going to have to tweak to fix. The ball sails because he's concerned about getting it over the line.

Not to argue semantics, but I don't consider inaccuracy to be the absence of accuracy, but rather the degree of consistency of accuracy. If a QB can't reproduce a given throw more than 5 or 6 times out of 10, then IMO, he is inaccurate. Mayfield appears to be less consistently accurate this year than he was last year, with the exception of a couple clunker games last year.

We are 1-1 and thats better than were used too.
We have a long way to go before we become a playoff team.
I do not like the play calling. Not nearly enough runs by Chubb.
It is very clear that our defense and special teams are way above our offense.
Still too many penalties.
Baker is not comfortable and Freddie needs to help him with better playcalling.
It seems like Freddie is in love with forcing the ball to Odell instead of using the run to set up paly action.
Our tight ends need upgraded.
I thought Schobert had a nice game.
I was happy with the win but not impressed with our offense.

jc -

Watched the locker room speech after the game. Pretty uninspiring speech by Freddie and really awkward lukewarm reaction from the players to Freddie getting his first win. Wilks is the one that had to bring it up. Freddie's presser after the game was awful as well. Odd answers and seemed kind of out of it almost like he was out of breath.

Putting my psychologist hat on, this team is sinking under the expectations. It was too much too soon. Something tells me this might work in their favor as they will now be the underdogs next week at home and that is a more comfortable position for them (it's also why I'm predicting a win). Ultimately I think this team will take a ton of lessons into the off season. It's what they do with them that will matter.

Baker can be great if he wants it bad enough. I truly believe that. He was more contrite in his presser yesterday than at any other point I've seen him. He knows it starts with him, that he isn't playing well, and that he's missing a ton of throws. Get it fixed.

I didn't think it was that. Too me, it looked like he was trying to force the ball more than place it at times. He was overthrowing it, which if it was a problem with his wrist, he wouldn't have been able to do. JMO

I think Milk Man said it best...we look discombobulated...a lot...maybe most of the time. My mind keeps going back to the lack of playing time by the 1's in the pre-season. We've seen that movie way too many times.

It's been said here already, but what was/is the deal with getting to the LOS with barely enough time to get the play off? We are not some well-oiled machine that has played together for awhile...so why are we pretending to be like one in that regard?

To my recollection, the Jets played 8 in the box on D quite a bit...somewhat daring us to throw. Then Baker overlooks the easy play way too often and it was there again last night. I think this is where we/he misses Higgins the most...he looks for Higgins (he shouldn't too much) and will overlook the easy play (he shouldn't so much) but oftentimes Higgins IS that easy play. More on Higgins to follow...

I'm not sure what we have going on at TE. There are (4) on the roster and only (1) actually plays/looks like a TE - albeit one that doesn't block well. This position group is so below average that it's unbelievable.

Lamar Jackson completed (10) passes to his TEs last Sunday. Carson Wentz completed (8) passes to his TE last Sunday. Baker had (1) completed pass to a TE last night. How we cut DeValve over P Brown is mind-boggling. I know DeValve got dinged a lot...but he was healthy at final cutdown. He gets open and catches the ball.

In the end, Higgins is Baker's de facto TE...when Higgins isn't there...so goes a lot of that confidence/comfort that young QBs are all about. That's not to say that Baker won't pass on the easy play if Higgins is in...he will...but if (3) incompletions last night were instead (3) completions to Higgins (very reasonable for his "TE") Bakers stat line goes to 22-35 350 yards. 1 TD and 1 INT (on a deflected pass that should have been a PI call).

I think we'd take that on any given Sunday/Monday/Thursday.

I agree. Last year I can give him a bit of a pass for taking down time. He got married and as a rookie. Those guys leave their college season and jump right in to the NFL drafting process. That makes for a LONG year. Down time was probably needed.

You mentioned it here or somewhere else, it will be key to see how he goes about next off season. If Bake wants to reach his full potential, he will need to take less down time.

As for this season, I hope we aren't trying to change him.

Next Sunday we need to pound Chubb and hit more quick passes. That will open up plenty of chunk pass chances.

Well said, I sense the same things too. I think Baker’s eating some humble pie to be honest.

Every player knows the TRUTH inside their mind. He knows he’s not playing well and is in the deep end right now ... no more floaties. He has the ability to be a great swimmer, but it’s gonna be hard

Browns open at +2.5. I've seen as high as +3 (pays -120)

Moneyline is +125

2014

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411060cin.htm

I think it's a simple matter of exposure.

Opposing teams have film on him now. DC's have had a half season of book on him, and are starting to do what always happens in the NFL... adjust and adapt.

Add to that our lack of time to gel, and it shouldn't be a surprise that 2019 didn't take off like a rocket. The tools are there, but it takes time to dial in the workshop.

If this O was operating as proposed on paper, the final score should have been CLE 40-something/NYJ 3.

This team ain't there yet.
This team might not show its potential until well into the 2nd half of this season.

Baker Mayfield will see the kitchen sink thrown at him this year. I fully expect him to bump/lurch his way through a big chunk of this season, as he learns his way into the top shelf of NFL QB's.

OL protect is an ongoing issue.

Everyone who watches a game with me will here me say (at least 4-6 times per game): "Good things happen when you get pressure." It works for us when Myles, Larry, and Olivier are on the field; the same holds true with our opposition. Even Tom Brady becomes average/manageable when he's forced from his comfort zone. Baker is 1/2 a season old in the NFL. He's getting pressured... and it's keeping him from establishing a rhythm. He must take another step.

But that won't happen until he gets a reliable, clean pocket. This OL is stunting his growth early in the season.

Humble opinion time: I think the indecision you see is Baker trying to figure out the NFL. This is gonna continue throughout the 2019 campaign. We will see the flashes of brilliance (like that 30- yd toss to OBJ), but we will also see him struggle for big chunks of games. It's natural and to be expected.

Lots of fans and experts have predicted a division champ for the Browns, but that's only based upon what's on paper. I wouldn't be surprised to see an 8-8~ season, with a totally dominant team in 2020.

.02

The Problem with Baker?

- I think he took a pounding in week one and the first half of last night seemed like it was going to be like that again. He may be hearing footsteps coming at him earlier which breaks his progression reads or rushes them.

- I'm not sure his throwing hand is 100% due to the accuracy issues. I've watched him throw 60 yards into trash cans, drop numerous long passes right into the WR hands, play lights out from an accuracy POV... yet through the first two games something is off. I can't help but feel it's something physical vs. mental or scheme. He didn't just forget one of his best traits, something is up that we are not aware of.

- Teams have more tape on him, this is a new offense, and the pass happy play calling is not doing him any favors.