The types of plays being called could be a problem. The run versus pass play calling is fine. We ended up running the ball 21 times, that is pretty good for 2019.
The problem is the running backs are not getting the ball in their hands enough in the passing game. Throwing to the running back out of the backfield is one of the most efficient passes in the league. It's a short pass that usually goes for a pretty good chunk of yards.
Not only are we not passing to the running backs but we have had very few efficient short passes completed to just pick up a quick seven or eight yards.
Running the ball in 2019 is less efficient than throwing the ball. Throwing the ball averages more yards per play and a higher success rate. Hopefully the clunkiness of the offense is just early season rust being worn off and not a larger issue with the system or the players.
Here’s something I’ve wondered. Biggest knock on baker besides his atrocious accuracy is his decision making and pushing the ball down the field at all costs. Could it simply be he just can’t see over the line to see those routes over the middle developing in the short to intermediate? If FK was the true mastermind behind last years turn around, wouldn’t you think we’d see some of those plays by now?
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Here’s something I’ve wondered. Biggest knock on baker besides his atrocious accuracy is his decision making and pushing the ball down the field at all costs. Could it simply be he just can’t see over the line to see those routes over the middle developing in the short to intermediate? If FK was the true mastermind behind last years turn around, wouldn’t you think we’d see some of those plays by now?
How come he could do it last year but not this year?
I think ppl are misremembering BM performances last year....he's got some brilliant moments....and some not-so-brilliant moments.....he's going to take risks with the football...that's what he is....he's got that gunslinger mentality.....he gives us a chance to win in every game....that's something we haven't had in forever...
he has his flaws...hopefully he'll grow with experience and right now...I'm happy with that...
Beckham’s two terrific plays inflated Baker Mayfield’s numbers a bit. He seemed to get rid of the ball a touch faster and plays like the seam route to Beckham help. Beckham said they installed that play just this week — perhaps to combat the issue of holding onto the ball too long — and Beckham knew by the defensive scheme it was going to be a big play.
That type of RPO with a receiver who can beat man coverage is the stuff the Chiefs excel at doing. It’s the stuff this team can and should ultimately develop, too. Freddie Kitchens said the original play call was a run, but Mayfield improvised.
Nice info Milk ... it seems like we need to take a page out of the Chiefs, Cowboys, 49ers playbooks ... watch the quick passing game and RPO stuff
Also, looking at Baker’s INT ... there was an easy check down right there for 5 yards ... GOTTA take that. It’s happening far too often
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Not going to copy your post with 3 tweets in it but I agree with Orlovsky.. Our tempo is horrible and I wonder how much of that comes from the HC trying to make the play calls....
As far as us being 30th in 3rd down conversions, I'm honestly not overly concerned with that because cumulative season stats don't mean much in a 2 game sample when one of them was historically bad. Because of penalties, we were constantly in 2nd and 20, 3rd and 17, etc... so our 3rd down conversion % was 10%... we were 30% last night. Still not real good but in manageable distances we were much better.
ASIDE from any hype... I wonder how much teams like the Titans are taking the Browns more seriously this year and preparing more. Last year, coming off that 1-31 garbage from the two previous seasons, is it it possible teams prepared less and chalked up a win with the Browns coming up on their schedule? And that played into some of last year's success? Along with a a lack of tape on Baker?
The world is a better place after a win and 1-1 is way better than 0-2.
Congratulations to Freddie and his staff on their first NFL win. Not real happy with some of the play calling. Did not like some of the plays called in various situations. I thought there was some plays for Chubb that should have been called.
Baker. He has not started his 16th game yet in what is a career of learning. GW knew how to confuse him. Baker missed some reads. There were few rhythm throws. At the same time he made some stick throws and some good decisions.
Offensive Line. Played well. The blocking on the Chubb TD run was a thing of beauty, textbook. Pass protection was better. Harris is not a good blocker. Hubbard struggled at times.
Myles. The Jet offense was crippled. We did what we had to do. Myles is a dominant player. The calls were close. Can not takes away his aggressiveness, but he has to stay in control.
Higgins was missed. He has a knack to find open space in the intermediary routes.
I love Schobert. Super smart player. He always is where he should be. You never see him out of position. Kirksey also played well.
Odell. He showed his talent. I have my doubts about him playing sixteen games. Some of the things he says strikes me as a guy who feels like he has to "feel 100%." There is no 100% once the season starts.
Expectations. After seeing the first two games we have a ways to go. The schedule looks rough. Rams, Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks, Pats. We need to get better quickly. We are going to tested early. To win three of those games we will have to be a much better team than we have shown so far.
I think Peen made a very valid point about "trying to change Baker". Not really so much in who he is or how he plays, but throwing too much at him at one time. Trying to change the scheme too much, too fast. I did see at least some attempt to scale that back just a little bit last night.
Everyone has covered most of the points I found to be troubling. Myles is a beast but he will have to learn more discipline.
Diam also brought up a good point that Baker's moxie is a part of who he is. It seems that's a little shaky right now because of what's being thrown at him. Which brings me to Clem's point about the other teams in the NFL now having film on Baker. It was obvious to me at least that when Williams changed the coverage post snap it confused Baker and had him second guessing himself.
The NFL is a league where film study rules supreme in game preparations. I'm sure the Titans and Jets games will be blueprints for our opponents moving forward. As many have mentioned Baker needs to take what opposing D's are giving and just go with the flow.
I also agree with most people that the game we played last night won't bode well for us against teams with decent QB's and a healthy D. But from last week to this week was solid progress. If we can maintain that progress game in and game out moving forward things will come around.
That's my only real hope moving forward as the schedule strengthens.
A shout out to our kicker and punter. Both performed well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think the schedule might work out for us in a strange sort of way. We have some tough games coming up and we are not a well-oiled machine right now. Let's just say we can get to 4 and 4 or even 3 and 5 after 8. Think about the following:
--Hunt will be eligible --The OL will have time to jell --Kinks on offense w/Freddie and Monkins should get ironed out --Baker and his receivers will have more chemistry.
The Ravens are playing well, but we have some easy wins in there and no other team as current constructed scares me.
I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.
The Cleveland Browns first win of the season was at the hands of the hapless New York Jets on Monday night. Things do not look good in the Big Apple as the crosstown Giants are seemingly just as bad.
After a 16-3 halftime lead, Cleveland capped the night off with a 23-3 victory to begin this season knotted at 1-1. There were many great plays, and not so great plays.
The Good OBJ’s special talents: Odell Beckham Jr.’s one-handed grab in the first quarter was a tremendous catch under tight coverage. On his touchdown catch in the third quarter, the best part was when he faked to the right and then cut to the left side of the field, which basically took the only man who could tackle him, free safety Marcus Maye, totally out of the play.
Beckham’s six receptions for 161 yards equate to a 26.8 average. Anyone who is still not pleased with the trade for OBJ is a liar. Not a bad night even without the watch and the dark shield.
Myles Garrett: At times, defensive end Myles Garrett seemed almost unblockable. Jets left tackle Kelvin Beachum had no answer all night long for Garrett’s speed and first step. Bringing tight end Ryan Griffin over at times to chip did not help much. Garrett ended the night with three sacks, five tackles and three tackles for loss, but his constant presence in the backfield dominated the line.
Cleveland’s linebackers: Christian Kirksey, Joe Schobert and, at times, Mack Wilson made play after play all night long.
In the third quarter when the Jets went for a fourth-and-two at the Browns 12-yard-line, cornerback Greedy Williams hit running back Le’Veon Bell first, but it was Schobert who put the knock-back tackle on Bell who appeared ready to lunge forward for the first down.
Facing a third-and-11 for the Jets in the fourth quarter with 13:40 left, Bell caught a screen pass and then broke four tackles while reversing his field. It was Kirksey who brought him down just short of the marker to force yet another punt.
Finally, it was Schobert’s hit which forced Bell’s fumble late in the fourth quarter and eliminated the Jets’ best scoring opportunity. Schobert finished with 13 tackles.
Defensive coordinator Steve Wilks: To say that Wilks called a stellar game is an understatement. At times, he had eight players in the box with man-on-man on the two solo receivers outside. Wilks blitzed a fifth or sixth man all night long, which created a Jets offense who had dismal yards in the first half.
Other formations included a 4-2-5, 4-1-6 and, at times, the standard 4-3. The Browns pass rush dominated this game.
Kicking game: Punter Jamie Gillan routinely placed the ball inside the 20-yard line (four total), helping to keep the field position game in the Browns favor. Kicker Austin Seibert was true on all of three of his field goal attempts, connecting from 43 yards, 48 yards and 23 yards.
Two rookie kickers was a huge risk that head coach Freddie Kitchens took, and it seems to be paying off.
Solid Unies: The white jersey with matching pants and socks was a very clean look. But the most impressive aspect was the fact that the numerals were orange with a slight brown dropshade instead of a solid brown number. The continuation of the orange really compliments the orange helmet.
Also impressive were the Jets’ all-black uniform with the darker forest green color variation. The only thing missing from the Browns uniforms was the Bernie Kosar-era white facemasks.
Clock management at the end of the first half: A refreshing part of the Browns night was how the first half concluded.
The Jets got the ball with 57 seconds remaining and on first down Bell ran up the middle for only two yards. Sensing New York would simply run out the clock, Kitchens called a time out. This forced the Jets to try and get a first down and quarterback Luke Falk then threw an incomplete pass, which saved a time out. With five yards tacked on for delay of game, on third down, Bell was stopped for no gain and forced a punt with the Browns now having the ball with 35 seconds remaining.
On third down and 20 from midfield, quarterback Baker Mayfield hit Jarvis Landry for 25 yards and a first down with no timeouts left. The entire Browns offense sprinted up 25 yards to the line for Mayfield’s spike, which gave Seibert the opportunity to kick his third field goal and up the lead to 16-3.
The Bad Offense run game: Except for Nick Chubb’s 19-yard touchdown run in the second quarter, the run game did not get anywhere all night. Holes to either side never quite formulated because blockers were not moving their men out of harm’s way and just using arm pushes instead of drive blocks. Seventy rushing yards for a game is not going to beat the better teams in the league, just the lousy ones. Going into this game, the Jets were 24th against the run.
Offensive line pass blocking: Mayfield made a third of his pass attempts scrambling out of the pocket frequently. When he did have time to throw in the pocket, wonderful things happened, such as Beckham’s touchdown reception. The rightside in particular with right guard Eric Kush and right tackle Chris Hubbard was a jailbreak on many passing downs.
The Ugly Right tackle Chris Hubbard: Chris Hubbard could not contain Jets defensive end Leonard Williams for most of the night. On one play, a cornerback blitzed with Williams stunting toward the middle, and Hubbard just kept following Williams instead of staying in his area and letting Williams go to take on the blitzer.
When Mayfield would have to pop out and run into the flats to throw, it was usually Hubbard’s man who would start this process. With 10:41 remaining in the fourth quarter, Chubb took a pitch from Mayfield on a toss sweep behind Hubbard, who had two Jets to choose to block and chose to block neither.
Myles Garrett: As a premier defensive end in the National Football League, you have to be aware that the league wants every single one of its member clubs to have every single one of its quarterbacks available each week. That is why there are special rules in today’s NFL designed to protect quarterbacks – make that numerous rules to protect the quarterback.
And one of those rules is as soon as the ball has left the signal caller’s hand he is no longer a target and can be bumped, but not tackled. The defensive player in pursuit of a quarterback has to make a reasonable effort to avoid hitting the passer.
Garrett’s two roughing the passer calls were just plain stupid and hurt the defense each time. He could have incurred a third such penalty on the Bell reverse field screen on third-string quarterback Luke Falk that thankfully was not called. It is going to be an expensive week for Garrett
Garrett was a beast even with the penalties. A couple years back he would have been praised for those hits on the QB, but with the way the NFL changes rules and the refs call them so unevenly, it's going to take time for him to figure out what he can get asway with.
Baker is going for the long ball on every down, he has got to be reigned in.
OBJ is a great player. Also, I watched the INT a couple times, it was clear pass interference, the guy was all over his back. Freddie needed to throw a challenge on that.
A win is a win. The offense has not meshed yet, and Baker is trying too hard for a big play every down. Freddie needs to ride Chubb more.
Young team, new coordinators, first time head coach, and that is just what it looked like.
I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.
I agree. It's what I was alluding to when I put this in my post. Though I didn't spell it out very well.
Quote:
I think Peen made a very valid point about "trying to change Baker". Not really so much in who he is or how he plays, but throwing too much at him at one time. Trying to change the scheme too much, too fast. I did see at least some attempt to scale that back just a little bit last night.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.
Tweaking the personnel packages seems like a good idea in theory but I still don't how it would work in practice.
With 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, two wide receivers) we would have to take Higgins (Baker's binky) off the field or one of OBJ or Landry. And we'd have to bring on a tight end, which would mean Harris (who has been terrible) or Pharaoh Brown (who is an unknown) or Ricky Seals-Jones (I think this is probably the best option). None of those options above seem ideal, which is why I think we're in 11 personnel most of the time.
We don't have a full back so 21 personnel is off the table at least until Kareem Hunt comes back and we potentially line him up at receiver.
I think 11 personnel allows us to keep our most talented players on the field at this point in time.
I’m glad my thoughts on Schobert were correct: I thought he had a really good/active game. Seems like his evaluation agrees with that
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I hope Todd Moncken isn't the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that no one's talking about. He was brought in to have significant input into the offensive scheme. And he's air raid all the way from what I've heard. Freddie just seems "off" this year in his play calling. He seemed to be near genius last year molding the offense for maximum production.
The other potential situation is that the wheels have fallen off by the time we get to the other side of the tough part of our schedule. Going into winnable games with no mo' makes the "easy" stretch of games much tougher.
I'm glad we got a win. We needed it. I'm also glad guys did well (Garrett, Chubb, the Oline was much improved). Still, as others have said, it's hard to celebrate the win when you know you've got the Rams coming up.
In a weird way, I'm kinda glad that we're seeing our offense in a bit of a mess. The scheme we employed against the Titans just wasn't going to work, and I'm hoping that last night's game was because Freddie and Monkin saw that and are making large changes on the fly. That obviously carries the negative of pushing the offense into more disarray through the short term, but I think that will get us into a better position eventually when we start to settle into plays and formations that work better for our personnel. Monkin may well have his high-risk-high-reward offense, but I'm hoping that he's realizing that that is going to be a season or two away, and not right now.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
How many passing yards did the Jets have in the 1st half?
Interesting Halftime stat:
LeVeon Bell had more receiving yards (5) than both JETS QB's had passing yards, combined (4).
thats good (for us)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I hope Todd Moncken isn't the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that no one's talking about. He was brought in to have significant input into the offensive scheme. And he's air raid all the way from what I've heard. Freddie just seems "off" this year in his play calling. He seemed to be near genius last year molding the offense for maximum production.
I agree. And I have been trying to talk about Monken's influence in the Offensive Scheme thread. I think I mentioned it on this thread, too. I'm very concerned w/his philosophies.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Just a random comment I will add here. Ratley has some wheels!
On the play that OBJ to for 80-90 yards, Ratley came from out of nowhere to get between OBJ and the last 2 defenders who might have had a chance to make a play.
It was impressive.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
OBJ is probably making mayfield look for the homerun ball too much.
i mean looking at the replays, there were some wide open check downs that was there all day for mayfield.
our O line has problems, how much of those problems would've been masked if mayfield was hitting the open throws and open guys like he did last year?
yall know what this reminds me of, right guys?
remember how Hoyer the destroyer was playing....right up until Gordon got back from the 10 game suspension? then he was forcing the ball to him constantly.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
We need to run the ball more to set the tone of the game and let the passing game feed off that. We are looking for the big play every down. Take what the D gives us on O. Establish a running game then use play action.
I agree Homewood to a tee. I also think it all comes back to Freddie play calling and even though Baker isn't as sharp as can be he is taking the blunt of the blame.
We need to keep improving week to week and we will be ok. That includes the playcalling and game planning on O.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
I don't really think Baker is taking the blunt (brunt) of the blame. I mean say what you will but the play calling really has nothing to do with the accuracy of a QB's arm. And I think the fact he has trouble going through his post snap reads is something very common for a very young QB.
Now some of that can be overcome with play calling. Last year they pretty much asked players which plays they were more comfortable running. As such it helps a young QB. From the change in play calling it seems they aren't doing that this year.
And it very well could be that if they were running plays the players were more comfortable with, that Baker might be more accurate. But a QB has to adapt and be able to maintain his accuracy. That's on Baker.
As an example..... Last year we saw Baker rolling out when pressure was applied in the pocket. He made some amazing throws while on the move. This year under those same circumstances, his throws seem far more off the mark. These are similar throws under similar circumstances with totally different results.
Now some of those things are on Baker. Some of it has to do with what I believe is the coaching staff throwing too much at him too fast. It's the coaching staffs job to know a young QB's limitations and progress and in return call plays with those limitations in mind. I'm not seeing that thus far on the part of the coaching staff.
There's enough blame to go around here And I think it's being doled our pretty evenly.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
- I think vers is on to something with Monken's influence. I have no idea if true, but it seems like last year - Freddie called his game, his plays. This year it just seems that Freddie is calling Monkens game and his plays. If that makes any sense. We are seeing the same offense and play types that really set Winston up to fail. Deep plays and long developing routes that get pressure on your QB who then has to force a throw resulting in an a bad pass or INT. Watch Winston under Monk and tell me that's not what we have seen the last two games from Baker. This aint the same Baker or offense we saw last year. With upgraded talent, we downgraded on our game plans and playbook, IMO.
Just a random comment I will add here. Ratley has some wheels!
On the play that OBJ to for 80-90 yards, Ratley came from out of nowhere to get between OBJ and the last 2 defenders who might have had a chance to make a play.
It was impressive.
This comment made me go look at the vid. If you can find a wide screen vid, watch it. He was, when OBJ caught the ball, perhaps only a yard behind OBJ. He was split out wide.
AS the tape shows, OBJ made a few cuts (half cuts, really) and, in no way am I saying he doesn't have speed, but......well, start this vid at around the 40 second mark.
[quoteOBJ is probably making mayfield look for the homerun ball too much.
i mean looking at the replays, there were some wide open check downs that was there all day for mayfield. ][/quote]I don't know if that's the OBJ effect, or the effect of our new OC. Because I saw the same type of gameplans in Tampa.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
