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I like John Harbaugh. Dude will change his schemes to fit his talent. Underrated coach in my opinion. I do think he was wrong for going for two last week. That did not make any sense.
Edit: I hope we make some changes this week. Baltimore will get after the qb and they have an excellent secondary. If Baker holds the ball as long as he has been thus far this year, it could be a very long day.
Time to make some schematic adjustments.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 09/24/19 09:36 AM. Reason: Another thought
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Hell, half the plays they cut the field in half.
Freddie did that w/Baker last year. It's not an uncommon thing for the playcaller to do that w/young qbs. It actually makes some sense, especially for guys who were not asked to go through a lot of progressions in college. I agree, and I expected to see it in the Rams game which is why I was so optimistic about the game. Seeing them unable or unwilling to adjust was very frustrating. It does not give me hope as the season moves along. Really wish Baltimore would have fired Harbaugh. I would have personally went and picked him up and drove him to Cleveland. I think (hope) that Freddie is not so caught up in who's scheme we're running. I think he has a good head, he can see when things just aren't working. I hope he eventually comes around and makes good decisions about the offense. I am also not a fan of this type of offense, but if that's what the coaches think we should run, then so be it... but there are personnel issues that we've created. We've got to get at least 1 legit tackle, and at least 1 good receiving TE. Whether or not the line is responsible for the poor play of the offense and the pressure on Baker is actually irrelevant.... if they want to keep this offense, they need a line that's much better... at least until Baker develops his post-snap brains and decision making a little more. This offense wasn't going to be a finished product out of the gate. There was going to be a tough learning curve. Apparently, we've decided to make it harder by going away from the things we did well last year and adding/removing personnel, contributing to some unfamiliarity. And regardless of all that, give Chubb the f'ing ball. Dude has been the lone, consistent bright spot in the offense so far. Keep the big guys happy by having them run-block more, and take some focus off of Baker.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Chubb. And shorten some routes. Time to take up some of the slack in BM's leash. Almost always rolls right when flushed because of tackles or Bitonio. Just roll him; unload the ball somewhere rather than the sack again. Taking the blame for the loss is admirable as it is worthless. It's a winning business. We should be about that.
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JC https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brow...innovative-lookAccording to Freddie Kitchens:
The Browns will keep the same system and terminology; that continuity is key for a team that for so long has relied on restarts. Monken will learn the system Kitchens used, as opposed to the team learning Monken’s.
"He understands that him learning something new is a hell of a lot better and easier than 90 other guys learning what to do," Kitchens said.
Monken’s approach mirrors what Kitchens did with the Browns last season: spread the field; use horizontal-vertical routes and multiple groupings and formations to put pressure on the defense; get the ball out quickly; produce big plays. This offseason, Monken interviewed for head coach openings with the Packers, Bengals and Jets. He also interviewed for other coordinator jobs before choosing the Browns, where he knew he would not be calling plays. "He came in and made the decision for what he was going to be surrounded with and the environment that is going to be created moving forward," Kitchens said. meanwhile: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/rep...ator/ar-AACQZW8https://clutchpoints.com/browns-news-freddie-kitchens-playing-bigger-role-in-offensive-installation/Browns’ Freddie Kitchens playing ‘bigger role’ in offensive installation According to Cleveland.com’s Mary Kay Cabot, Kitchens hasn’t been extra involved in offensive meetings because first-year offensive coordinator Todd Monken is acclimating to his new team more slowly than expected, but due to his role as overseer of the Browns at large. Kitchens has been doing more in offensive meetings the past few weeks, but only because he’s been gathering input from all the assistants and must make decisions on how the scheme will ultimately play out, a source told cleveland.com.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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i think it might be safe to say that even Dorsey became a prisoner of the moment with the FK hire.
the hype seem to affect the entire organization from the top down. This deserves repeating. How this translates to the entire "search party" falling head over heals (he was the unanimous decision), I don't know. Prisoner of the moment is one thing, playing like you're handcuffed to a set of plays or an offensive philosophy is mind-boggling to me. Didn't Freddie just sit down and draw up a few crazy plays on a napkin last year with "Baker and the boys"? That's what it seemed like... that's the way it was reported. Now we're watching a team that looks like changing things up would be harder than a speed-skater making a right turn. I. Do. Not. Get it. It cannot be this complicated. I'm not blessed in the X's and O's department like many of you. The personnel packages we've discussed make perfect sense to me though. I know we've screwed up the entire TE dept since last season, but won't Demetrius Harris block better than, say, NOBODY? We better do something quickly, Baker looks like he may be getting a bad case of anxiety disorder and a mild case of "the yips".
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Except during the SB against the Pats in the 2nd half.
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j/c
I must say I think the speculation about whose system we are running here seems a little disjointed. Freddie was named the HC and had the freedom to hire his own coaching staff. So I guess my question to my fellow posters is why would he hire someone who runs a system that isn't much like the system he wants to run?
I mean let's face it, the film on Monken was there. The Tampa Bay O was on full display for anyone and everyone to see. It wasn't some hidden surprise to Freddie.
So it's my contention that the system Freddie wished to employ is the mirror image of what Monken was running in Tampa Bay. That a Freddie O and a Monken O are pretty much one in the same.
To me, trying to say who is responsible for the scheme we are running falls squarely on Freddie. He hired, wanted and approved of Monken's O or Monken would have never been hired in the first place.
I mean how much sense would it make to hire someone who runs an O that you don't want to run? To hire a person that will have to change what he does to fit into what you are trying to accomplish?
The math on that just doesn't add up to me. I believe Freddie hired someone who had the playbook he preferred to begin with and what we're seeing is a product of that.
I think Freddie felt he had the personnel to run this O and is finding out that our OT's and Mayfield simply aren't ready to make that leap. Now we all have to sit back and see how Freddie adjusts to that reality.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'd love to see a poll done, I'd do it but don't know how - choose your top two from each group that represent your highest priority ... I think most would say it's a combination in many ways - but what are the biggest factors?
- Baker is the main reason the team is struggling offensively
- The O scheme is the main reason the team is struggling
- The Play calling is the main reason the team is struggling
- The fact that Freddie is a rookie HC is the main reason the team is struggling
- The fact that we have a new coaches, schemes and playbook and we are only into week 3 the team is struggling
- The OL is the main reason we are struggling
- The lack of establishing the run is the main reason the team is struggling
- Lack of playing time for starters in pre-season is the biggest reason the team is struggling
- I am a little concerned with Baker
- I am very concerned with Baker
- It'll be fine - give Baker time
- He's toast, we need a replacement 4 Baker
- I am a little concerned with Freddie
- I am very concerned with Freddie
- It'll be fine - give Freddie time
- He's toast, we need a replacement for Freddie
- Freddie needs to stop calling plays
- Freddie needs to change the playbook and have more from last year's scheme
- Dorsey is somewhat responsible for not having a better OL and a blocking option at FB or TE
- Dorsey has put together a team that should be able to compete if our coaching was better
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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j/c
I must say I think the speculation about whose system we are running here seems a little disjointed. Freddie was named the HC and had the freedom to hire his own coaching staff. So I guess my question to my fellow posters is why would he hire someone who runs a system that isn't much like the system he wants to run?
I mean let's face it, the film on Monken was there. The Tampa Bay O was on full display for anyone and everyone to see. It wasn't some hidden surprise to Freddie.
So it's my contention that the system Freddie wished to employ is the mirror image of what Monken was running in Tampa Bay. That a Freddie O and a Monken O are pretty much one in the same.
To me, trying to say who is responsible for the scheme we are running falls squarely on Freddie. He hired, wanted and approved of Monken's O or Monken would have never been hired in the first place.
I mean how much sense would it make to hire someone who runs an O that you don't want to run? To hire a person that will have to change what he does to fit into what you are trying to accomplish?
The math on that just doesn't add up to me. I believe Freddie hired someone who had the playbook he preferred to begin with and what we're seeing is a product of that.
I think Freddie felt he had the personnel to run this O and is finding out that our OT's and Mayfield simply aren't ready to make that leap. Now we all have to sit back and see how Freddie adjusts to that reality. You put out a nice buffet of food for thought! I have a thought I'd like to add on, but I'm hesitant to do so because it doesn't paint Freddie very positively, and I'm not trying to purposefully put the man on blast. It's like "Hmm... do I or don't I bring a jello mold to Vers' BBQ"? I guess I'll type it out and see how it reads.. When we announced Freddie as our HC I was fairly neutral in my feelings about it. I wanted to know more about his philosophy, his systems, and his scheme. He had a great relationship with Baker and he was considered part of this up and coming crop of fresh, innovative coaches in the league, someone who was not likely going to be our OC for more than this year. He had some street cred because our offense was night and day last year. To me it looked like he was creating whole game plans on a weekly basis. Seeing it was actually just adapting Haley's offense to me isn't any less impressive. But what if that's the extent of Freddie Kitchens? Is it possible he isn't the kind of person who establishes systems and processes, he just makes established systems and processes better? (Like those BASF commercials "We don't make a lot of the things you buy, we make a lot of things you buy better" Let's say instead of being retained here Freddie became the OC somewhere else? What does his offense look like?
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Might have to take you up on that and make some polls. The first one is more of a ranking though, as I feel it's a combination of all of that.
6 - Baker is the main reason the team is struggling offensively
1 - The O scheme is the main reason the team is struggling
2 - The Play calling is the main reason the team is struggling
4 - The fact that Freddie is a rookie HC is the main reason the team is struggling
3 - The fact that we have a new coaches, schemes and playbook and we are only into week 3 the team is struggling
7 - The OL is the main reason we are struggling
5 - The lack of establishing the run is the main reason the team is struggling
8 - Lack of playing time for starters in pre-season is the biggest reason the team is struggling
Freddie being a rookie Head Coach, thinking he had all the answers, and scrapping an offense that was working fine last year for an offense that doesn't really fit to your QB's (or other players') strengths is right at the top of the list. And that sort of ties into everything. The scheme is terrible. We have a great back in Chubb, but want to go shotgun/no back and take him out of the equation half of the time. We have a QB that plays best with quick reads and throws, but we ask him to run a confusing offense. We want to go long developing routes with a patchwork line. The play-calling isn't much better. We have plays that work, as we've seen. But we keep going away from them, and go with things like empty backfield passes 4 times in a row on the goal line. Baker needs to improve and hasn't played well at all, but they haven't exactly played to his strengths either. The O-line has done what it can. It could improve quite a bit, but it's not like guys are slipping through untouched every play.
X - I am a little concerned with Baker
- I am very concerned with Baker
- It'll be fine - give Baker time
- He's toast, we need a replacement 4 Baker
- I am a little concerned with Freddie
X - I am very concerned with Freddie
- It'll be fine - give Freddie time
- He's toast, we need a replacement for Freddie
- Freddie needs to stop calling plays
X - Freddie needs to change the playbook and have more from last year's scheme
- Dorsey is somewhat responsible for not having a better OL and a blocking option at FB or TE
X - Dorsey has put together a team that should be able to compete if our coaching was better
Where's the option for "Dorsey is partially responsible because he signed up for Kitchens when he knew his plan was to scrap the offense". That right there is what drives me the craziest. Continuity and familiarity is what make offenses work. Constantly switching up your offense on a rookie QB is just asking to ruin him. We HAD an offense that worked. Freddie's biggest selling point is that he ran an offense that actually worked last year. Why in the world did we scrap that and bring in a whole new system? Worse yet, a system that minimizes Chubb's impact, and asks Baker to do things he doesn't seem ready for? Dorsey had to know this, and he still went along with it.
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I must say that IMO it's far too early to say what Freddie is or isn't. At least for me anyway. But your hypothesis is as good as any.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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A ranking would be good/more appropriate ... yes agree.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Here is a new scheme for us against the Rats: 
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I must say that IMO it's far too early to say what Freddie is or isn't. At least for me anyway. But your hypothesis is as good as any. I appreciate that, and point taken. Whatever Freddie may be, I hope this is just a matter of needing to sync everything and not him trying to be someone he isn't.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Reading some of the posts I think there is a little bit of everything probably wrong.
Saying that, going into the season with all the hype I was worried about a few factors, most of which were our head coaches inexperience plus the fact we had not only a young team, but the team's roster had been drastically changed the past 2 seasons. Add to that critical players did not log many minutes in pre-season the early struggles do not surprise me.
Basketball teams with only 5 players struggle to gel so I assume 11 players who need to perform their individual tasks in sync with precision timing it should not surprise anyone we have struggled. The real question is how long will the solution take.
I do think we have talent and expect the play to start reflecting that talent by at least mid-season.
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The next few weeks will be 'getting better', after the bye I expect to see much better game planning and scheme. I think the best thing we could do today is get back to what we did late last year.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 09/24/19 04:42 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I'd love to see a poll done, I'd do it but don't know how - choose your top two from each group that represent your highest priority ... I think most would say it's a combination in many ways - but what are the biggest factors?
- Baker is the main reason the team is struggling offensively
- The O scheme is the main reason the team is struggling
- The Play calling is the main reason the team is struggling
- The fact that Freddie is a rookie HC is the main reason the team is struggling
- The fact that we have a new coaches, schemes and playbook and we are only into week 3 the team is struggling
- The OL is the main reason we are struggling
- The lack of establishing the run is the main reason the team is struggling
- Lack of playing time for starters in pre-season is the biggest reason the team is struggling
Yes
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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Nice point about our team needing time to gel with new circumstances, and that’ s definitely true ... you just worry that we’ll be 1-6 before that happens ... and at that point, nobody will be happy or patient
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Tackles are tackles.
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Well there you have it ...
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Those stats are fairly revealing. A lot of the stats regarding the offense that have been posted in the last week are so are painting a pretty clear picture.
So, do we change or do we trust the process and believe that we'll get better once we have more time invested in the changes?
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I think the smart choice would be a combination of the two. Go back to what worked last year while slowly injecting the new system. It seems pretty obvious that implementing it all at once isn't working.
What a lot of people seem to overlook is that a lot of money and hype was invested into this season. While a lot of us view this as a sport and our passion, bottom line is that it's a corporation and a business. With this much of an investment, I don't believe a lot of patience will be employed.
For this to work it has to be given a chance. For it to be given a chance we have to compete and win some games.
If we go back to what we know will work while gradually implementing the new scheme as time goes on, we cab compete, win some games and over time run the scheme the coaching staff has in mind.
A lot of us understand that we're going to need to get away from not having better blocking TE's and an Hback to run these long developing plays. That we can't keep refusing to have max protection packages on those plays.
It seems like they're trying to build Rome in a day and lack enough stone masons to pull off the job.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Seems they might lack the stones for the job, irony intended. Be less exotic because the route folks aren't even cutting downfield before Mayfield has flushed right and hung onto it too long. Are we loafing routes? Hatching the ball? Some of this requires a priority fix IMO,and it doesn't take a lot of film and stats to get there. Who is giving up pressures? Sweep some; screen some. But a draw for nine yards at the goal line is stupid.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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j/c
As the pain of the last loss starts to fade away, I wonder how we'd 'feel' right now had we not laid such a big, stinky egg on Opening Day...not saying had we WON...just not looked so inept and ill-prepared.
Maybe it'll end up being a good thing once the schedule softens up and we tweak (hopefully) what isn't working. Before the year began, I was hoping we'd be around .500 at the midpoint...that's still doable.
Imagine how we'd feel right now if the schedule started out 'softer'...we looked like crap early on...and then knew that a harder schedule was coming. Yikes.
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That makes sense...we'll see if enough pride can be swallowed to go there.
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Thought provoking. I was amazed at how unprepared we looked, and also hated the penalties so far. Maybe more prep in preseason games might have helped. Just noe worth much wondering. Confront, solve, resolve. "Do not fix blame; fix problems." Not all of this fixing has to be rocket science. Mental toughness might help a bunch. Especially with penalties.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Been reading a lot of the linked materials in this thread and others, and I just don’t understand why we are running this scheme.
The scheme from last year seemed so appropriate and effective, allowing Mayfield to play to his strengths, giving Chubb a lot of touches, and giving the WRs space to move.
I don’t want to bring it up, since it’s in the past, but this reminds me a lot of what Hue was scheming with Keizer. Long downfield looks, that took time to develop. The concerns I saw with that scheme are the same I’m starting to develop with this one. The major one being the 2.5 seconds and less versus the 2.6 seconds and more, and the effectiveness of each.
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I hope the Browns adjust their packages and change their schemes this week. As most of us know, Baker and the OL struggled when Haley was running the offense. After he was fired, Freddie came in and simplified the offense. Some changes were: --Baker only having to read half the field --Mass protection on many plays --Plays designed to get the first read open quickly --Having multiple TEs to help w/blocking --Keeping a back in to help w/blocking --Trickeration to keep D's off-balance It's a bit gimmicky and I don't know if it can hold up over the long run, but it was effective last year. Fast forward to opening day and we ran a lot of 11 personnel. This can be a high-powered offense that highlights your skilled personnel. [Note: I will look for a link that describes the different personnel groups. I'll try to find one that is easy to read. That will keep this post shorter.] The problem that we saw early on last year and in our opener against the Titans this year is that our OL was struggling a bit w/out any help from backs and TEs. Also, the routes were taking more time. The second problem is that Baker now had to read the entire field and he looked confused. That led to him holding the ball too long and making some really poor reads and decisions. At this point in time, I don't know if Baker and our OL is ready for this type of offense. They may be eventually, but it sure didn't look good in the games we have watched. I would hope that we go back to some of the things we did last year when Freddie took over. Quick reads. See half the field. More max protection. I'm worried about the dude we brought in from Tampa Bay. Yes, their offense scored a lot last year w/many deep passes, but they gave up a lot of sacks and had too many turnovers. I didn't get that hire from the get-go. Well, I mean I get that they want to utilize our great talent w/OBJ, Landry, Njoku, and Callaway..........but, I don't think the OL and Baker are ready for this. Do you guys think that we should stick w/what we did in week one or go back to the things that Freddie brought in when he took over last year? Here is a link for the personnel packages: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/nfl-personnel-groupings-11-personnel-12-personnel-21-personnel This is interesting(good work) because it tells whats going on ..the $$$$$$$ question is , regardless of whether this is Monken's scheme (which for some reason I feel he has input) or not, it's not working because of the use of the personnel ..it's not playing to Mayfield's strength and covering his weaknesses.
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This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
The other thing is for him not to always roll to the right side of the field which is being cut off..stay in the pocket a bit longer .
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
Not all NFL QB are alike... Mayfield needs high 60 -70's % completion to have good games.. He is more a "system/high tempo QB" than a virtuoso, I know I'm going to take heat from this, but its not even a critic... I actually think the kid is good in the right environment...
Last edited by rastanplan; 09/26/19 01:12 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 878 Likes: 17
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 878 Likes: 17 |
This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
Not all NFL QB are alike... Mayfield needs high 60 -70's % completion to have good games.. He is more a "system/high tempo QB" than a virtuoso, I know I'm going to take heat from this, but its not even a critic... I actually think the kid is good in the right environment... I like to use a baseball analogy for this. Was Smoltz better than Maddox? Nope. Just different. If Baker is more of a Maddox, then, so be it. Give him the scheme to win.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,841 Likes: 274
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,841 Likes: 274 |
.... Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
Nice. I'm going to borrow that and use it someday, without giving you credit. Hope you don't mind. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 Likes: 10
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 Likes: 10 |
I think the smart choice would be a combination of the two. Go back to what worked last year while slowly injecting the new system. It seems pretty obvious that implementing it all at once isn't working.
What a lot of people seem to overlook is that a lot of money and hype was invested into this season. While a lot of us view this as a sport and our passion, bottom line is that it's a corporation and a business. With this much of an investment, I don't believe a lot of patience will be employed.
For this to work it has to be given a chance. For it to be given a chance we have to compete and win some games.
If we go back to what we know will work while gradually implementing the new scheme as time goes on, we cab compete, win some games and over time run the scheme the coaching staff has in mind.
A lot of us understand that we're going to need to get away from not having better blocking TE's and an Hback to run these long developing plays. That we can't keep refusing to have max protection packages on those plays.
It seems like they're trying to build Rome in a day and lack enough stone masons to pull off the job. This is the part that frustrates me the most I think. The fact that we're at the point we're saying "go back to what worked last year and implement from there" is problematic. You are 100% correct. But why weren't we doing that in the first place? I'm just so tired of this string of coaches that come through here and NONE of them have the confidence or chutzpa to take what we are successful at and say to their opponent "we're gonna cram it down your throat until you figure out how to beat it". But no, we instead simply assume our opponents are going to be able to beat it and we don't even bother trying. I find myself strangely impatient this year and I'm not so sure it's simply being spoiled because of what we have on paper. I guess I'm just tired of seeing other teams with new coaches or new schemes actually having consistent success, but then looking at our own team and saying "well, we just need time to gel". I don't know. Maybe it's really just a grass is greener kind of deal.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 Likes: 10
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 Likes: 10 |
This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
Not all NFL QB are alike... Mayfield needs high 60 -70's % completion to have good games.. He is more a "system/high tempo QB" than a virtuoso, I know I'm going to take heat from this, but its not even a critic... I actually think the kid is good in the right environment... Baker + this roster + Kyle Shannahan' system????? it'd be killer
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350 |
J/c
It's been mentioned that Baker struggles against zone coverage. This appears to be true on the surface. Are our receivers struggling as well against it, though, complicating the problem?
We miss a reliable TE to sit down in holes in zones in the middle of the field. We miss Higgins who can somewhat do the same thing.
Ratley came to us a rather raw receiver. He missed a lot of time during camp. Is he seeing things the same way as Baker? Is he settling in the right spots and making good decisions during scramble drills?
Are teams tilting coverages to take OBJ away? Is he coming back to Baker when the initial play isn't there?
Landry for all his savvy and ability to shake a man doesn't really threaten zones with speed.
We're not using much play action to suck up LBs and open up the middle of the field behind him.
While Baker Is struggling, he hasn't gotten much help.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,240 Likes: 594
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,240 Likes: 594 |
This could well just be the expected painful part of the learning curve where Baker takes his lumps and begins to grow into a full-blown NFL QB.
Afterall, Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.
He's getting it now.
Not all NFL QB are alike... Mayfield needs high 60 -70's % completion to have good games.. He is more a "system/high tempo QB" than a virtuoso, I know I'm going to take heat from this, but its not even a critic... I actually think the kid is good in the right environment... Baker + this roster + Kyle Shannahan' system????? it'd be killer Ugh... and there it is. I was thinking that as well, with the hot start that San Fran has had this year. I didn't want to put it to paper (err... keyboard). We had him here.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,240 Likes: 594
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,240 Likes: 594 |
I think the smart choice would be a combination of the two. Go back to what worked last year while slowly injecting the new system. It seems pretty obvious that implementing it all at once isn't working.
What a lot of people seem to overlook is that a lot of money and hype was invested into this season. While a lot of us view this as a sport and our passion, bottom line is that it's a corporation and a business. With this much of an investment, I don't believe a lot of patience will be employed.
For this to work it has to be given a chance. For it to be given a chance we have to compete and win some games.
If we go back to what we know will work while gradually implementing the new scheme as time goes on, we cab compete, win some games and over time run the scheme the coaching staff has in mind.
A lot of us understand that we're going to need to get away from not having better blocking TE's and an Hback to run these long developing plays. That we can't keep refusing to have max protection packages on those plays.
It seems like they're trying to build Rome in a day and lack enough stone masons to pull off the job. This is the part that frustrates me the most I think. The fact that we're at the point we're saying "go back to what worked last year and implement from there" is problematic. You are 100% correct. But why weren't we doing that in the first place? I'm just so tired of this string of coaches that come through here and NONE of them have the confidence or chutzpa to take what we are successful at and say to their opponent "we're gonna cram it down your throat until you figure out how to beat it". But no, we instead simply assume our opponents are going to be able to beat it and we don't even bother trying. I find myself strangely impatient this year and I'm not so sure it's simply being spoiled because of what we have on paper. I guess I'm just tired of seeing other teams with new coaches or new schemes actually having consistent success, but then looking at our own team and saying "well, we just need time to gel". I don't know. Maybe it's really just a grass is greener kind of deal. We've had a string of coaches that say that they're going to adjust the system to the players, and then cram their own systems down the roster's throat. This situation is slightly different. We DID adjust the system to the roster, and THEN crammed a different system down the roster's throat.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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