DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Mayfield work head enough to be great?

Really OK with a bunch of what I saw today.

Thanks, Ravenkiller. Hope you watched this beatdown. I find that I enjoy scoring quite a good bit. Let's win again soon.

Jc

Well, another dismal performance by baker mayfield.

I just want to remind the board that as much as we all believe baker mayfield is the guy, he needs to clean his game up. Since 2018, he leads the league in picks.

So far in 2018, he has 8 picks. He has 4 TDs and 9 total turnovers.

Can't argue w any of that. Some will anyway.

ANd he’s literally running into sacks (and a fumble last night) ... If we just had the last 5 games to go by, he’d be an outright bust of a pick.

But we’ve seen him be accurate, decisive, confident, etc ... but that has faded away. He looks shellshocked and unsure. Teams are keeping him in the pocket, forcing him to throw while not seeing, and playing zone so he can’t trust his WRs as much.

And he’s responded terribly

For the sake of this city and browns fans everywhere, baker must develop into the franchise QB.

But man..if we have a QB who only performs when he has a chip on his shoulder, we have a problem.

At some point, guys gotta perform against good teams. At some point, he has to live up to the hype.

I mean damn, why does he still have poor form in the pocket? Why is he still throwing fade away passes like he’s Kobe? Why is he running into sacks and bailing the pocket so early? Why isn’t he taking the play that’s there and instead trying to go for a home run ball? Why is he telegraphing his throws, leading to batted balls?

As below average as our OL has played, baker is making them and the entire team look a whole lot worse. Baker HAS to step his play up. And if he can’t do that without running his mouth and creating fake outrage, then I dunno guys.

I think the title of the thread should be changed.

By all accounts he is a hard worker. I don't think it's a question of whether he will work hard or not. It's more of when he's working hard is he working smart ...i.e., is he doing the right things.

I also believe the new, inexperienced QB coach isn't doing him any favors. Just a hunch on that one.

And he's just incredibly immature. Immaturity breeds overconfidence. Overconfidence breeds complacency.

He has a lot to clean up.

J/c

I agree with the fact that we can’t just play well when we’re “mad” or when we respond ... it’s like we are playing bogey golf but then get birdies when we absolutely have to.

Meanwhile, we should be playing par golf and getting birdies when they’re there

Honestly, I think the "he's running into sacks" thing is being over played.

He's not really running into sacks. It starts much earlier than that. His recognition, trust, confidence...take your pick...is not where it needs to be. He shouldn't be running into anything because the ball should already be out before he even has a chance too. And that's the part he's missing.

"Taking time away from football" is not my idea of working hard.

It’s not being overplayed when it’s ruining drives.

I think both you and Rish are right. He should get rid of it quicker and he does leave the pocket when he shouldn't. Obviously, both are related to him being confused by the post-snap coverage.

Again, there are no reports that I am aware of that Baker isn't a hard working player. Just the opposite actually. Taking time away from football maybe wasn't the smartest thing to do but that's not proof he isn't a hard worker. His coach also encouraged it.

If this is the best he can manage, he should sit. This double and triple pump, running into sacks, myopic use of Chubb (reliably predictable), and holding too long for this line is just dumb. If he knows better, and we HAVE seen him do better, then it isn't making it to the field. He runs right when flushed, and his passes are thrown inexplicably high. These tall balls are going to get us hurt, and it doesn't seem much of this is being coached up and corrected.

Look for some tackles who can move their feet better. Trade Callaway possibly. Sit Baker if he can't be game ready.

Callaway simply isn’t mentally good enough to trust. He didn’t know where to line up and was totally out of the game even before his big blunder

jc

question for the guys who really study the game......

is Baker's lack of athleticism starting to hurt us this season? because a person doesnt roll the same direction over and over again if they are comfortable throwing from multiple platforms. we've also seen some running lanes baker could've took off and get a few yards on as well.

im just wondering. i know QB's are suppose to make money from the pocket, but its not like he's even doing that right now either.

J/c

I’m also growing MORE AND MORE concerned that we never seem to check the ball down or have outlets for Baker (whether that’s by design or because he won’t hit them). It’s like all 4 WR options are clumped together and/or running way too deep of routes

At this juncture (as of October 8th) if the Browns are picking in the Top 5 again, they gotta take another QB.

Until you find your guy, you keep taking QB. This will either light a fire under Mayfield or he will fold. One way or another Baker needs to know ASAP that either you step up or you step aside, if he cna't get the job done we will find someone who can.

At the end of the day, this is business and the Browns need to find a QB that can utilize all the weapons we have. So far that hasn't been Baker Mayfield.

If im picking in the Top 5, i take another QB, and i give Mayfield one more year, if he can't do it, move on.

Pat Thorman
@Pat_Thorman
Baker Mayfield (66) and Lamar Jackson (67) have faced pressure on a similar number of dropbacks.
However their passer rating while under pressure is not similar.

LJ: 99.0
BM: 22.3

That means nothing. Lamar isn't very good either.

So far he’s better than Mayfield. The stats plus the W-L record since 2018 says he is.

Baker should be better than Lamar long term.

Should.

J/C

I agree that Baker should be better, and I also agree that he’s not right now. Given the choice of QBs right now I’d take Lamar, simply because he can creat yards by himself and Baker can’t. Baker’s lack of speed and athleticism is daunting ... he’s way slower than I thought coming into the year

I take baker simply because I believe in 2 minute situations, he’s a better QB when we need yards in chunks, standing in the pocket. There are a few other aspects that I’ll also choose baker over Lamar.

But that is a gap that is quickly closing, and was never that wide to begin with.

One other alarming thing: as soon as we go empty it’s like we immediately suck. Baker was so good in empty formations in college and last year ... and this year he’s the exact opposite

Look at our red zone offense when we go empty ... it’s putrid

Yes ... and who is calling the empty sets? .... and to b3 honest i dont remember an empty backfield last year unless it was a shift by the RB in motion.

To me that shows it isn't primarily a QB problem. If you have done it in the past, you can do it now.

I still think the problem is when we merged Freddies O and Monkens. It is like they don't mesh and go for opposite results.

We just aren't cohesive in what we are doing. Something has to give.

This is kind of where I'm at, and it's why I haven't thrown myself off the cliff. This offense is a work-in-progress that is now subjected to a massive overhaul.

8-22 is a QB problem.

j/c:

Baker Mayfield is ranked 31st out of 33 listed starting qbs. Only Cam Newton and Falk from the Jets are behind him. His QBR is 33.4. http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

He has also thrown twice as many interceptions as TDs this year. He has a losing record as a starting qb.

He's put a target on his back w/his words and all kinds of people associated w/the NFL are talking about it. But, you know.....it's just because some posters "hate" Baker.

never mind Lamar, Josh Allen has played far better than Baker Mayfield, with much less talent to work with.

im tracking the 2018 QB draft class right now. man....i know its only a year and a half, but this 2019 offseason, you can clearly tell which QB's took a step forward, and which ones took a step (or multiple steps) back.

Allen also, so far, has a much better coach as well. You know, the coach everyone in the former FO wanted but Jimmah trumped it and took Hue Jackson.

I am not making excuses for last night performance. It was a bad game. Only simpletons as wanting to make changes at this point.

As I stated earlier, I think there is something going on with the O in general. Maybe it's Freddie calling Monkens O or maybe it is Monkens O.

I have a brother who lives in the Tampa area. He thinks Monken is a QB killer. He had Winston all balled up last year.

That is just his opinion. I am not pointing fingers. You want to point fingers like some of the others, go for it.

IMO Lamar is ALL that better statistically since 2018.


Baker (NFL Career)
TD–INT: 31–20
Completion percentage: 62.7
Passing yards: 4,872
Passer rating: 90.0

Lamer (NFL Career)
TD–INT: 17–8
Passing yards: 2,472
Completion percentage: 61.7
Passer rating: 91.6
Rushing yards: 1,003
Rushing touchdowns: 6

Now this year is a totally different story

In your case, you do, but I get your point. No doubt about it, Baker isn't playing well. I totally agree.

We just might differ on why.

I am not here making excuses for the guy. I just wonder why because he did play well last season.

I don't know why we didn't exploit Sherman playing so far off the receivers. You could have literally driven it down the field with 10 and 15 yard out routes every single play. Then when they adjust you go over the top. These are also fast developing, timing plays that have had Baker drop, plant, throw.

Offense would have gotten into a rhythm and defense would have been on their heels.

My only point is there are multiple problems going on here. I'm certainly not trying to say Mayfield is the only problem. But he's most certainly one of the major problems.

Accuracy and thought process isn't on a HC. Calling plays and implementing a system conducive that puts your QB in the best system for him to be productive is.

As far as the O that makes it a two headed monster.

To be honest, I fell asleep once we went down by 14. I could see how that one was shaping up. I rather wake up pleasantly surprised then sit through a game like that.

I agree, we should be attacking underneath a lot more. I think part is Monken who prefers a vertical, slower developing passing game. I think it is partly the OBJ effect where we feel we need to get him the ball.

Things just aren't in synch with the coaching staff and the team.

Makes you wonder if we should’ve kept Gregg Williams as HC. Freddie seems to have too much on his plate. I’m not giving up on Freddie cause it is his first year,

But nobody can deny that he was very under qualified compared to others.

Unless we start attacking underneath with crossing routes, check downs, etc then Kareem Hunt’s addition will also deem itself pretty useless too. We’re using about 5% of our offensive potential. The play calling and QB execution is destroying us and handicapping everything

Again, I feel baker should be better long term.

But the stats say Lamar has played better, and the W-L column states that as well.

And the thing with Lamar is that he runs so much, and STILL has way less turnovers than baker.

And how the hell did the guy end up with a higher accuracy rate than baker? The same dude who so many people said needed to change positions?

We drafted the most accurate QB in the class and yet.....man I dunno.

I guess I just expected baker to take a huge leap forward with the weapons he has, and yet now I’m often wondering what Allen, Rosen, or Lamar would look like with the same talent.

Cause people bring up the OL....but Allen and Lamar actually have the ability to take the hell off when it breaks down. I mean, Daniel Jones could be legit faster than mayfield in game speed.

I've worried about this since it happened. We had caught lightning in a bottle, why didn't we stick with it? I get that Baker liked Kitchens and maybe Dorsey was afraid we'd lose him if another team offered a HC gig, but still. We finally had some semblance of continuity, we were winning games, we had an offense that finally looked competent and a team that looked competitive. We took one piece of that, and then blew up the rest. Worse yet, we let Freddie dictate that he could be the OC as well as the HC. That's usually something only the best of the best can pull off, like Belichick and Reid. Not a first year head coach that had all of 8 games experience as an OC.