In this case that's not going to happen. In a post game thread the objective is to address "that game". Nothing more, nothing less.
I am not giving up on the guy and he has a chance to succeed, but it hasn't been just "one" bad game. He's been bad for most of the year. His QBR is 31st out of 33 ranked qbs. Only Cam and Fales [Jets} are below him. He has twice as many picks as TDs. He isn't even completing 60% of his passes. He is making a ton of poor decisions and inaccurate throws. Many of those throws are sailing high.
He has also painted a target on his back and I get that some Brown's fans will defend him no matter what, but a lot of people associated w/the NFL are saying that the target is real and his poor performances are adding to that perception.
I agree with everything you said. My point was that each week we have a post game thread. That thread is designated to address each game on an individual basis.
From that, people seem to draw some illogical conclusions that your opinion of that game or the play in that game means something far more than what you are posting.
I think Mayfield deserves a fair chance here. He has a great arm and possesses all of the physical ability to be a very good NFL QB.
There are still a lot of questions he needs to answer but some of that will take time. The mental part of the game is where he faces his biggest obstacles. Reading D's post snap. Understand the tendencies of his opponents just to name a couple of things.
Those things, as I mentioned will take some time to see if he grasps. Some QB's grow into those things and some never do. But it's far too early for me to make an assumption about those things either way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
My biggest concern is the reading post-snap coverages. I really think that is an innate gift that is about processing speed. There are things you can do to make it less of a glaring weakness, such as understanding tendencies, but it's always going to be an issue.
With that said, I am not positive he can't process what he sees fast enough. The sample size is still too small, but I have to admit, it's a legit concern right now.
I am not going to get on your case like others have/will, but Baker has a great arm. I also think it would be stupid to give up on him. We have a lot invested in the guy and he has talent. I think he can improve and we would be smart to give him every chance to succeed.
Mayfield has an above average arm, which is good enough to do what ya need to do in the NFL..its by no means the canon Brady and Pre-Injury Peyton Manning and pre-injury Andrew Luck had, but it will be good enough if other things fall into place.
I am not suggesting giving up on Mayfield. I said i'd give him another two years, but if im picking in the Top 5 and Mayfield has not cemented himself as "the guy" then you have to take another QB and start exploring your options.
We have a ton of talent on this team, and a lot of money tied up in OBJ, Landry, etc. Why is it Mahomes has taken ahold of the reigns in KC and there is no question? Mahomes didn't have a great year last year than suck it up now. Mayfield at this point leave us more questions than answers.
If we are bad enough to have a Top 5 pick next year, the Browns would be doing their fans a disservice by not taking their due dilligence and taking another QB at that spot. If Mayfield ends up working out, we can trade this person for a King's ransom, If Mayfield doesn't work out we got a 1st RD guy that has sat for two years and learned and ready to take over. Either way we WIN in this scenario there is no losing.
Of course this would require Dorsey swallowing his pride and just "maybe" entertaining the possibility he was wrong and I am not sure he can or will do that.
Mayfield has an above average arm, which is good enough to do what ya need to do in the NFL..its by no means the canon Brady and Pre-Injury Peyton Manning and pre-injury Andrew Luck had, but it will be good enough if other things fall into place.
I think Baker's arm strength is better than all three of those guys. I am not knocking any of their arms, but Baker has a very strong arm.
I just don't understand fake planting your flag on your own field.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I don't recall Brady ever having a Rocket arm, or top arm in the NFL. I don't recall Manning have one either. Both good above average, but honestly, Bakers arm is better than both in their primes.
You then try to compare Mahommes to Baker. Mahommes sat an entire year watching a competent vet, under the tutaledge of a GREAT minded HC who has a history working with some of the best QBs the NFL has ever seen. He then stepped into a playoff team loaded with talent.
Baker got thrown into a mess last year, and although he now has a lot of talent - he has a rookie HC who we don't really know anything about, a team that has been put together over the last two years after winning 1-31 games, with 0 chemistry, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, new oline coach, etc.
To try to compare the two is, well.....not a valid comparison.
If we had a top 5 pick next year (we wont), it would be wise to trade down and pick as many lineman as we can. I find it funny you say to keep baker 2-3 years but want to draft a qb next year...… your agenda is showing.
Quote:
Of course this would require Dorsey swallowing his pride and just "maybe" entertaining the possibility he was wrong and I am not sure he can or will do that.
I think you should take your own advice you are giving Dorsey.
I just don't understand fake planting your flag on your own field.
It would've been perfect if they were on the Browns field, but I think the message was received regardless.
I also didn't understand attempting to plant a flag into artificial turf, but I'm not a college/pro superstar athlete...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Feh... Bakers arm strength was dicussed pre draft and i'm pretty sure the same guy said Baker had a below average arm. His arm strength is fine.
Bakers strength last year was accuracy and anticipation ... Baker was throwing the ball before WRs made their breaks or before they were open .... this year his accuracy and happy feet are concerning ... but more alarming is the play calling and scheme. Without improved playcalling and options to get the ball out quicker we wont get the ooportunity to fully judge Baker ... jmo
The more things change the more they stay the same.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
i agree. lets hope he can step away during the bye coming off a big win against seattle.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
One thing I am going to give him credit for - he handled the Sherman controversy well, self deprecating (made the joke about video helping him this time) and was gracious in accepting Sherman’s apology.
I don't think he threw w/anticipation last year. I think he struggled making reads and did better when Freddie cut the field in half and tried to utilize the quick, one-read passing game.
A lot of people bringing up last year, but I'm not sure they really know what they saw and are now blaming the coaching and everyone around Baker. That's unfair in my book.
I think one thing that a lot of people are overlooking is that maybe teams have had time to study Baker and exploit his weaknesses. We have seen that w/many other qbs. And I think it kind of sucked that we played the Jets early in the season. Gregg Williams knows Baker and he showed Baker one look pre-snap and the switched the coverage post-snap. That confused Baker. I think other teams have followed suit.
That’s EXACTLY why I thought playing the Jets so early was a HORRIBLE break for us. Gregg would give everyone the blue print on how to defend Baker. I see it in basketball all the time when teams play each other early that really know each other.
Playing the Jets week 16 would have been much more beneficial haha
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Baker made a lot of throws with anticipation last year. They may have been his first read, but he made them nonetheless.
He also made a ton of tight window throws with a lot of confidence. Those may have been his first read as well, but he threw them decisively and with accuracy. He was second in the league in plus level throws. Second, as a rookie. He made one of those throws to Higgins on the first drive against Tennessee. I began to expect them last year. I was surprised when we didn't convert 3rd and 15s. They were almost gimmes.
We don't even have the first read guy right now. It's got to be deeper than other coaches have tape on him or mixing coverages post snap. Those answers just can't be the whole story. We are watching QB play that isn't even good enough as a backup. I understood things may have been masked last year, but he put enough good on tape to make this complete reversal very surprising.
SO.....Sherman disrespected Mayield, disrespected the Browns, disrespected the 9'rs, disrespected his team mates, and disrespected the NFL.
Sounds like a classless college thing.
arch..but used to help motivate the 9ers, they beat our butts.
This team is so inexperienced in many ways yet our fans and most of the media fail to realize it before they begin running their mouths.
Another learning experience for this team and especially our younger players...I hope they remember these lessons.
This is total BS! These guys have been playing football since they were 5yrs old! What do they possibly still have to learn? If they can't get themselves up for a game and FOCUS then they should quit playing. Yeah, you can't win them all, but you can at least look like you were prepared and ready to play. These guys are poorly coached, period. Who has improved this season? Mayfield is a disaster, Garret is one of the most penalized players in the NFL! Run D still sucks. Ward can't stay on the field...
Dorsey made the mistake of letting the coaching staff go that engineered the 2018 end of season run AND INSTILLED SOME DISCIPLINE. Then he weakened the offensive line trading Zietler for the unproductive Vernon. OBJ has always been a head case and a distraction. The Giants were LAUGHING all the way to the bank as we absorbed their two worst salary cap and locker room headaches!!! Way to go Dorsey....now here we are.
What has Vernon done? What has OBJ done? Going to be a frustrating season...get ready, 6-10 at best.
Someone should tell these guys to "shut the he77 up" and just PLAY FOOTBALL! Not to mention start fining them for STUPID penalties....
The preseason hype was laughable...
The comments by Wiley at beginning of season don't seem so off-base at the moment...do they?
One thing you fail to mention when comparing Mahomes with Baker is that this is Mahomes 3rd year in that offense. Baker is essentially on his third offense in 2 years.
I always find it interesting when someone will alter the truth or forget details to enhance their agenda....
Kinda breezed thru this. Need to go again. More in depth.
Pretty good. Enjoyable analysis as always.
I don't think he's regressed. There are, however, issues that are influencing his 2019 campaign. He wasn't one read last year. I like how he also said coaching has a large part in this. Baker is learning and will figure this out no doubt. It'll be fun when he does and no one will remember his struggles.
That’s a good explanation of his issues. He was much more calm and confident last year, whether that had to do with the play calling, the line, the personnel, etc. But this year he’s skittish. He’s not trusting his line, his reads, or the players around him. Rarely gets to his second read.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
So...........anyone wanna talk about this? Or, do you wanna talk about other posters?
Of course I will...While the Oline hasn't held up, from the screen shots behind the QB which show better angles and distance with the DB'S.. ALL HE HAD TO DO in most instances was to shift his vision and go to the hot read.
Those open areas in the middle are there..even the one where Njoku gets hurt if he throws it early before he scrambles right, he'd have a clean throw and a safe catch. So perhaps the offset that occured in TC really affected him more than we knew with the shuffling of the Oline, which needs to be fixed. He has to settle down, become more aware that he doesn't need to leave the pocket and run, but shift and look for the open receivers. While I do put blame on the protection in some instances , some of this is on the QB . While he can make downfield throws he needs to become more of a manager of the downs, perhaps trying to see the shorter routes and anticipate the receiver coming open..
According to Next Gen Stats, Mayfield is throwing into double coverage (defined as two defenders being within 1 yard of the receiver at pass arrival) at a rate twice that of any other quarterback in the league.
He also continues to hold on to the ball for far too long, opening himself to unnecessary hits and negative plays, whether sacks or turnovers. Mayfield's average time before unloading the ball Monday was 3.35 seconds, matching the longest he has taken to pass in a game in his career.
One thing you fail to mention when comparing Mahomes with Baker is that this is Mahomes 3rd year in that offense. Baker is essentially on his third offense in 2 years.
I always find it interesting when someone will alter the truth or forget details to enhance their agenda....
nope... he is in the same offense. Freddie made Monken learn the playbook from last year.
I don't know how many times this has been covered. I don't know how many more times it can be covered.
Ironically. (probably not intentional) you are altering the truth because it's the same playbook/offense
https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brow...innovative-look The Browns will keep the same system and terminology; that continuity is key for a team that for so long has relied on restarts. Monken will learn the system Kitchens used, as opposed to the team learning Monken’s.
"He understands that him learning something new is a hell of a lot better and easier than 90 other guys learning what to do," Kitchens said.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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