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OBJ’s wanting of the ball is justified ... gotta give him the shot to win it for us in that spot Yeah, I don't like the blaming of OBJ. If he explodes, he should. Baker has no idea how to play professional QB. He has no idea what he's looking at pre or post snap. His coach isn't doing him any favors. No flow to the play calling. Dialing up Hilliard at the weirdest times. And his defensive coach doesn't blitz a guy who hasn't taken a snap in 3 years allowing him to get comfortable. Wow. Browns are losers. They always will be until they're not. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is on a 4 game winning streak with 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They care about winning and develop game plans with that in mind. They have a culture that makes the coaches and players care about winning. The Browns have a culture where individuals try to prove how smart and how great they are. The Browns are the dregs of the league. We will not beat Buffalo next week. They play the right way and care about winning.
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Dawg Talker
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Yo guys
What the hell happen to the deep ball?
We just don’t take any shots anymore. Sup with that? Yo guys
What the hell happen to the deep ball?
We just don’t take any shots anymore. Sup with that? Last year a lot of our deep balls came on play action with max protection in 12 personnel. We just don't do that anymore. Also, we really do have trouble pass blocking. It is a real thing that affects the deep ball. Who calls a safety blitz with OBJ and Landry in the field? DC's have figured Baker out and know he can't beat them...
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Legend
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Legend
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Well said. Losers lose. And that’s us ... and Baker isn’t the answer it appears. He’s shown no progress
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Dawg Talker
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OBJ’s wanting of the ball is justified ... gotta give him the shot to win it for us in that spot Yeah, I don't like the blaming of OBJ. If he explodes, he should. Baker has no idea how to play professional QB. He has no idea what he's looking at pre or post snap. His coach isn't doing him any favors. No flow to the play calling. Dialing up Hilliard at the weirdest times. And his defensive coach doesn't blitz a guy who hasn't taken a snap in 3 years allowing him to get comfortable. Wow. Browns are losers. They always will be until they're not. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is on a 4 game winning streak with 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They care about winning and develop game plans with that in mind. They have a culture that makes the coaches and players care about winning. The Browns have a culture where individuals try to prove how smart and how great they are. The Browns are the dregs of the league. We will not beat Buffalo next week. They play the right way and care about winning. SF was a bad team last year... there is no reason to blow this away. Just some major adjustments, specially at HC and QB... I atually don't think we need some extra special HC and QB, just some competent ones. Real players and Real Coaches.
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Legend
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It's a bummer.
I haven't said much about Freddie, but he is as bad as Hue.
You don't go for it until you have to go for it.
When Baker was stopped short, bad call or not, we should have taken 3 points.
Had we done that, we wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th and 4. We could have taken 3 points and taken the lead.
Week after week we use up our time-outs way early in the half.
The shine is off both Freddie and Dorsey.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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I have officially vacated my seat on the "try to defend Freddie" bandwagon. This is all on him. All of it. Our play calling on critical downs is unexplainable. You have 4th and a long one to potentially save your season and your absolute best player is on the sidelines and you run an off tackle QB sneak with a QB who is neither all that big nor all that fast.
I could rant about 1000 little things and individual players but I'm just not up to it at the moment.
yebat' Putin
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Yo guys
What the hell happen to the deep ball?
We just don’t take any shots anymore. Sup with that? I don't think Baker can see down the field. It seems when the rush is coming from the left, he doesn't see anything on that side of the field. Baker is a back up QB in this league, I'm convinced he will never get any better. That being said, the defense lost this game. Once again a depleted Oline and a first time starter at QB and they can't stop them. IMO Whitehead gave up both TDs, missing the tackle on the TE and missing the tackle on Lyndsey. If they did fire Freddie tonight, I would not care. This team is a pathetic group of so called "good" players. I'm starting to think that getting Beckam ruined the chemistry of the team. Also, Baker is not a strter in the NFL.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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Legend
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Legend
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Dorsey is just as liable right now ... hiring FK, not fixing the OL, and using assets to trade/change the chemistry is on him
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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How do you run twice as many plays as the other team, control the clock, win the turnover battle and still lose?
This team continues to astound us with new lows every week.
Just blow the whole thing up and start over next year. I'm so (many explicitives) sick of rebooting and staritng over. But it has to be done again. This is not working, no excuses for losing this game today.
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Kitchens definitely needs to be fired.
Don't fire Dorsey, that would be a mistake, let him complete his rebuilding plan.
Don't give up on Baker, don't want to see him reach his potential with another team.
Need to upgrade the OL and LBs.
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I have officially vacated my seat on the "try to defend Freddie" bandwagon. This is all on him. All of it. Our play calling on critical downs is unexplainable. You have 4th and a long one to potentially save your season and your absolute best player is on the sidelines and you run an off tackle QB sneak with a QB who is neither all that big nor all that fast.
I could rant about 1000 little things and individual players but I'm just not up to it at the moment. At least he's not like Hue and say it was Baker's call... But you are right, clearly Freddie is way over his head, his QB isn't helping him though.. Rookie HC and a QB who does not know how to read a D, is not a good combination.
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All Pro
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where is Mike Polk to make another video when we need him???
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Kitchens definitely needs to be fired.
Don't fire Dorsey, that would be a mistake, let him complete his rebuilding plan.
Don't give up on Baker, don't want to see him reach his potential with another team.
Need to upgrade the OL and LBs.
I agree with all of this. we are on pace to be drafting Chase Young with the 2nd pick.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I think Dorsey traded away some of our better players in Zeitler, Charles, Ogbah, etc. and has nothing but scrubs to show for it.
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Legend
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Those that want to anoint him a bust have did so weeks ago. Actually they did it before he was drafted and are still hoping they are right.
Horrible game management. Horrible play calling. Horrible offensive scheme. Horrible that we can't throw a blocking FB out there for even a single play..... As someone else said - If I am Dorsey I tell Freddie he isn't handing the play calling and if he wants to come back next year he needs to learn how to coach a team as the HC.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joe Thomas #73
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Legend
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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Well, my post game thought: the first half of that SMU-Memphis game was a corker last night.
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Those that want to anoint him a bust have did so weeks ago. Actually they did it before he was drafted and are still hoping they are right.
Horrible game management. Horrible play calling. Horrible offensive scheme. Horrible that we can't throw a blocking FB out there for even a single play..... As someone else said - If I am Dorsey I tell Freddie he isn't handing the play calling and if he wants to come back next year he needs to learn how to coach a team as the HC. Well he didn not win it and he had the chance... The QB sneak and the OBJ pass he didn't make. If you draft a QB because he is a winner, but he can't win one... And actually all I see is a O limited by the QB inneptitude. He just does not understand the game to the requierd level. Someone has to read the D and make adjustments...
Last edited by rastanplan; 11/03/19 09:16 PM.
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I never believed all the hype. I made a statement back in the summer; the Browns are still the Browns until their not the Browns anymore. It's still a losing atmosphere and it hasn't changed and won't until the wins start coming. Talk is just that, talk.
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Legend
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Eh, I'm not in meltdown mode because I saw a few games ago that FK is completely incompetant as a head coach. And if Monken is designing those plays then he needs to go also. I've also changed opinions on Wilks as he has an inability to ever bring the heat. He hardly ever blitzes and that should have been the gameplan tonight.
These coaches are idiots and all need fired.
Our talent is fine. Baker is fine. They would all play better with better coaching and schemes.
Also, can we please get an OL.
Last season was fool's gold, and I feel Dorsey will get some good coaches next season.
No Craps Given
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Fire them all mam... 
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Legend
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Well at least our kicker and punter are really good.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Eh, I'm not in meltdown mode because I saw a few games ago that FK is completely incompetant as a head coach. And if Monken is designing those plays then he needs to go also. I've also changed opinions on Wilks as he has an inability to ever bring the heat. He hardly ever blitzes and that should have been the gameplan tonight.
These coaches are idiots and all need fired.
Our talent is fine. Baker is fine. They would all play better with better coaching and schemes.
Also, can we please get an OL.
Last season was fool's gold, and I feel Dorsey will get some good coaches next season. Baker is only fine, that is one of the major problems... We need a QB with a good grasp of teh game, and Baker isn't it. Reading the D and making adjustments, he has to do it... so many blunders...
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Kitchens definitely needs to be fired.
Don't fire Dorsey, that would be a mistake, let him complete his rebuilding plan.
Don't give up on Baker, don't want to see him reach his potential with another team.
Need to upgrade the OL and LBs.
I agree with all of this. we are on pace to be drafting Chase Young with the 2nd pick. We are on pace to be drafting 8th, not 2nd.
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Legend
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Legend
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Those that want to anoint him a bust have did so weeks ago. Actually they did it before he was drafted and are still hoping they are right.
Horrible game management. Horrible play calling. Horrible offensive scheme. Horrible that we can't throw a blocking FB out there for even a single play..... As someone else said - If I am Dorsey I tell Freddie he isn't handing the play calling and if he wants to come back next year he needs to learn how to coach a team as the HC. Well he didn not win it and he had the chance... The QB sneak and the OBJ pass he didn't make. If you draft a QB because he is a winner, but he can't win one... And actually all I see is a O limited by the QB inneptitude. He just does not understand the game to the requierd level. Someone has to read the D and make adjustments... Cleveland Browns lost for lots of reasons today. The very biggest of them all is putrid, horrible coaching. You want to make the loss about Baker - suit yourself. Flipping it to "well he didn't win the game" is B.S. .... but have at it with your agenda.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Legend
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Legend
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Dorsey is just as liable right now ... hiring FK, not fixing the OL, and using assets to trade/change the chemistry is on him I agree. That is why I said the shine is off of him as well. We can still have a pretty good season, but I am just not feeling it right now. Just too many things that just don't feel right. Both Landry and Beckham had to change their shoes to be able to play in the 2nd half. Non conforming uniforms. That is on the coaching staff. You see what these guys are wearing. I coached a lot of baseball. The first thing I did was to check all the players to see they were wearing their uniforms the way I demanded or the way the team voted on day one. We were all going to look the same. Period. No discussion.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Granted, coaching matters in the NFL and there is enough blame to go around starting with Freddie. I would say Freddie, Wilks, the defense showing a lot of quit, and Baker are all culprits. But Baker doesn't know what he is doing or how to play professional QB at a level you would expect from the first overall pick. Freddie, Wilks, and the D aside, he's just not very good right now. There's no reason for everything on the offense to be so frenetic if Baker has an idea of what to do both post and pre snap. But he's really struggling doing that. He's shown almost no improvement since the start of the season. I think it's fair to start getting concerned. I also mentioned before the game we will see what the this team thinks of its captain. The defense completely rolled over today. They didn't rally around Baker after he was the target of the media for more ill advised antics. I think that may be more damning than his play.
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Rishuz,
Again, that is a symptom of Freddy not tailoring a offense to what Baker does well vs not well. Also, Baker's internal clock on pressure is not good..
I just rewatched the 4th down play to Landry.. First he had to see the DEN was bringing pressure. Second, if you look at the play, BAKER WAS LATE throwing to Landry.. to make it worse he only looked at Landry because Beckum and #88 were open. #88 was open due to Landry dragging across...
So even on that play, Beckum was open, Landry was open right away and #88 was late opening...
Landry cut under Calloway and is open right away....
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*
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 11/03/19 09:22 PM. Reason: Whitehead's tweet had profanity I had not seen.
Tackles are tackles.
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Legend
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Legend
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Those that want to anoint him a bust have did so weeks ago. Actually they did it before he was drafted and are still hoping they are right.
Horrible game management. Horrible play calling. Horrible offensive scheme. Horrible that we can't throw a blocking FB out there for even a single play..... As someone else said - If I am Dorsey I tell Freddie he isn't handing the play calling and if he wants to come back next year he needs to learn how to coach a team as the HC. Well he didn not win it and he had the chance... The QB sneak and the OBJ pass he didn't make. If you draft a QB because he is a winner, but he can't win one... And actually all I see is a O limited by the QB inneptitude. He just does not understand the game to the requierd level. Someone has to read the D and make adjustments... Cleveland Browns lost for lots of reasons today. The very biggest of them all is putrid, horrible coaching. You want to make the loss about Baker - suit yourself. Flipping it to "well he didn't win the game" is B.S. .... but have at it with your agenda. Except it's not BS. Franchise QBs are supposed to win games. Especially when they have the ball on a potential game winning drive. Did anyone think Baker was going to convert the 4th and 4? I had less than 5% confidence.
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1st String
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The biggest flaw with BAker is that he's a midget, gets passes batted down a fair amount of the time, and he just can't seem to see the field well. So, the decision needs to be made, if we need a new QB then that is our 1st round pick but we won't be picking No.1 so I don't know if we can upgrade?
Personally, I'd upgrade the OL first, give Baker more time to develop, I'm certainly not saying everything is Baker's fault, cause it's not.
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Legend
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Kitchens and his whole staff, baker and Dorsey are not any better than anything we’ve had since 99 Agreed. They're actually quite a step down from a number of the earlier regimes. Season is over; unless I'm *really* bored, there is no reason to tune in on Sundays any longer. I didn't see it coming, but this team is as much Fools Gold as Anderson's team was. I had thought, even before Free Agency and other moves, that this was a 12-4 team. Now, I think it is more like a 4-12 team. There is ZERO chance we beat Pittsburgh, and I feel it unlikely we beat Baltimore again. Honestly, playing Cinci twice and Miami is probably the only reason we might hit 5 wins and that's only because they will work harder to lose than we will.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This teams is imploding by the second.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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Legend
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Eh, I'm not in meltdown mode because I saw a few games ago that FK is completely incompetant as a head coach. And if Monken is designing those plays then he needs to go also. I've also changed opinions on Wilks as he has an inability to ever bring the heat. He hardly ever blitzes and that should have been the gameplan tonight.
These coaches are idiots and all need fired.
Our talent is fine. Baker is fine. They would all play better with better coaching and schemes.
Also, can we please get an OL.
Last season was fool's gold, and I feel Dorsey will get some good coaches next season. Baker is only fine, that is one of the major problems... We need a QB with a good grasp of teh game, and Baker isn't it. Reading the D and making adjustments, he has to do it... so many blunders... He's the best QB we have had since Bernie, and he is the best we will draft for a long time. We need coaches who can scheme towards our strengths. Our coaches suck and help nobody. Higgins barely even played. Where was SJ all game?
No Craps Given
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Practice Squad
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The players have checked out on Kitchens, they have absolutely no faith in him.
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Legend
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Legend
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I also mentioned before the game we will see what the this team thinks of its captain. The defense completely rolled over today. They didn't rally around Baker after he was the target of the media for more ill advised antics.
Awesome and very balanced take.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Granted, coaching matters in the NFL and there is enough blame to go around starting with Freddie. I would say Freddie, Wilks, the defense showing a lot of quit, and Baker are all culprits. But Baker doesn't know what he is doing or how to play professional QB at a level you would expect from the first overall pick. Freddie, Wilks, and the D aside, he's just not very good right now. There's no reason for everything on the offense to be so frenetic if Baker has an idea of what to do both post and pre snap. But he's really struggling doing that. He's shown almost no improvement since the start of the season. I think it's fair to start getting concerned. I also mentioned before the game we will see what the this team thinks of its captain. The defense completely rolled over today. They didn't rally around Baker after he was the target of the media for more ill advised antics. I think that may be more damning than his play. +1 ... don't get why people become so personnal, nobody is here wanting Baker to fail. He is just very limited. He's missing plays, he's not seing D miss matches, he's not seeing uncoverd defenders. He can't just be there and execute the play, he's the heart and sould of the O, and he is actually dragging the O, not making it better.
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You talk about worrying about Ants when the Elephants are getting though .. You gotta be kidding me!!..
Everyone worried about shoes when we got other problems!! The NFL and each team has someone who looks at uniforms. SO the NFL could have said something BEFORE the game, when they usually do. Freddy aint got time to worry about cleats.
Freddy needs to worry about his sorry play calling and how long it takes him to call the plays... How about that!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 19 Broncos
24 Postgame Thoughts
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