DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garrett Part 3

The networks should revisit the replays and show the complete scene to the public with full audio and in slo mo.

I read somewhere that Garret was appealing his suspension again based on the fact that there was precidence for his actions. I guess in 2013 I think Antonio Smith wacked Ritchie Incognito with his helmet and I believe Smith only got suspended two preseason games and one regular season game. Not sure on all my facts but here is the video of the incident.

Huh. First I had seen that. Nice big uppercut to the face with the helmet!

I'd send an all blitz his way, first play.

I have not been pouring over the video with an obsession. But When seeing it again this morning on Sportcenter, I noticed somethings I didn't before.

First and foremost. (and I briefly mentioned this before) Thank God for David Decastro. If he hadn't been there, this could have been extremely ugly. He did all he could to diffuse the situation and keep the players separate. Even after the swing he tried to control the situation and even tries to cover Garrett when Pouncey is taking his swings. You can see that Garrett isn't fighting against Decastro while on the ground or trying to get him off. I wish there was more narrative about what he tried to do. Instead of promoting what people are trying to do right...the narrative is about blame, and negativity.

Secondly, Once the helmet was taken off and Decastro is moving Garrett away...Rudolph comes after Garrett 2 more times before the helmet swing. The first time he hits Garrett in the groin (the second attack to this part of Garrett's body). Now Mason can make the argument that he was trying to reach for his helmet. But (and I can admit some bias here) from my interpretation...Mason's arm did not go straight to the helmet but reared back first. He "wound up". And if he was reaching for his helmet his aim was consistent with his performance in the game. But the thing to take away from this is that Mason comes after Garrett, hits him in the nuts...and he DID NOT retaliate.

Decastro then positions himself between the 2 and Rudolph comes at Garrett AGAIN. Rudolph continues his own "rage" and keeps making advancements on Garrett. So if we are keeping count, this is the 4th attack on Garrett. The helmet pull, the groin kick, the groin punch, and now this. And this is when Garrett finally swings the helmet.

Now attack 3 and 4 are Bang Bang and most might take the view of it as a single attack...but there was opportunity after #3 for Mason to stop.

My point of all of this is not about excusing Garrett. But rather to show more argument against the lack of punishment to Mason Rudolph.

Let us be clear. This whole situation for the NFL is not about justice. It is about PR. And the Steelers are playing that game better than the Browns. But I will get to that later. The current PC narrative is that it is a worse action to to retaliate than to instigate. The other issue that goes against Garrett is that the retaliation was far more violent than the instigation. But we have a 230# QB vs a 285# DE. Is this really going to be a surprise?

The NFL is making an example of Garrett. This satisfies a PC Culture and attempts to make a statement to curb these actions from happening again. But by only punishing the retaliator and not the instigator, they ensure that this situation will happen again. By only punishing the retaliator, their message is that the retaliator is the CAUSE of the incident. This alleviates the hindrance towards the instigator of continuing to instigate. If the NFL really wanted to curb these situations, they would be making an example of Rudolph as well. Instead, they turn Mason into a victim. And if Mason is the victim, they cannot allow the accusation of "racial slur" to taint that. This is not about dealing with what actually happened, but rather to shape the incident into an acceptable narrative for today's culture.

This is a culture issue. Today's culture is over-reactionary(ironic isn't it). The current PC narrative pushes an idea that there is NEVER AN EXCUSE for retaliation. You always have the option of walking away. You control your actions, you cannot control another's actions. I understand that point of view...and there is some validity to it. But I don't agree with it. I do not agree with "NEVER AN EXCUSE".
11 million people had their lives taken from them, including 6 million Jews, because of that kind of thinking in the 1940's. I try not to hold onto "absolutes" like "never". This is not to say Garrett could not nor should not have walked away...he definitely could and should have...But what is the acceptable number of attacks upon yourself before you do retaliate? you cannot answer that...it is completely subjective.

I think the thing that today's culture does not get or understand is that JUSTICE applies to ALL PARTIES INVOLVED and not just the victim. To take this to an extreme example...would the death penalty be considered justice for the crime of petty theft? Of course not. But an argument can be made that this is exactly what is happening with the pariah treatment of Myles Garrett. Some even on this board have expressed the idea that Myles may have played his last game in the NFL....ever. Is that justice?

I mentioned the Steelers are playing this PR game better than the Browns. And that is very apparent. For example...when you are in a car accident, what is it that attorneys and insurance companies tell you to do? They tell you to never admit fault at that time. Even if you are at fault. By doing so you are putting yourself at a HUGE disadvantage. And the Browns have done the very same thing. They believed they were getting out in front of the situation by apologizing to the Steelers AND Mason Rudolph. But instead they have now accepted responsibility for the CAUSE of the incident and have thrown Myles Garrett under the bus. The Steelers know exactly who instigated and escalated this incident. But have you seen the Steelers organization apologize to the Browns for their part? From the very beginning they did not claim responsibility (nor did they deny it) and they let the Browns fumble over themselves. Even in Mason's apology (which was not even factual of the events), he only mentions "his part" and not exactly what "his part" actually was.

This whole situation is a travesty. It is a travesty that Myles Garrett was stupid in his actions. It is a Travesty that Myles is being treated so harshly. Especially when considering his past and the precedence's set on previous aggression's of this type by others. But it is even harsher because it is a travesty that Mason Rudolph is essentially being let off the hook with what will be a fine of 15K-20K (from reports I have read). Myles Garrett is going to lose MILLIONS...this is justice??? It is a travesty that today's culture is pushing this narrative...and it is a travesty the Browns put Myles behind the blackball (unintentionally) in trying to appear as the responsible party that owns up to that responsibility. They gambled poorly that society would value that. I mean they were already apologizing before anyone truly understood what actually happened. Their "support" of Garrett is a little late to the party.

If we as a society truly wanted justice we wouldn't be judging this incident 2 seconds after happened. We would have seen Garrett, Pouncey, Ogunjobi, and especially Mason Rudolph suspended and fined appropriately. We would be saying more about David Decastro and pushing the narrative of the peacemaker. But sadly, we as a society do not...

Good post. After reading it I'd like to add another thought.

In addition to all the issues you identified there is also the Browns factor. Since the Browns are losers and have been for a long time, it's easier to give them the short end of the stick without a lot of backlash. We are a laughingstock and this is just another in a long line of events for the world to laugh it.

There are two ways to combat this...one, start winning. The other I wouldn't mind seeing is the Haslams doing an about face and instead of cowtowing to the NFL throughout this whole ordeal, change course and consider fighting this treatment aggressively through any of a number of mecahnisms...through the media, legal system, whatever.

Someone has to stand up to Roger Goodell. It's amazing in today's world that someone so corrupt can operate out in the open without fear of repercussion. He has so much unchecked power and it's so consistently abused and he just continues to operate with impunity. The general public doesn't care because it's the Browns. Maybe the Haslams should.

Rudolph's fine had been reported as $35K earlier this week. Was it increased?

Schefter's tweet from 11/17 ...

That's basically no punishment.

Cannot disagree with anything you said. Very well stated as well.

Now that the numbness of this whole situation is beginning to subside, I've come back to just being very disappointed with Garrett.

Society loves a villain. Myles complied. Although I think the punishment is excessive, the same "culture" you speak of immediately becomes another reason for the NFL to strike hard. Another notch in their belt to show their deep concern for player safety and specifically - cranial safety. Truth be told, it would be a stupid move as a business entity, to treat this any other way.

David Decastro's example casts an even heavier shadow on Myles' actions. The calm and level-headed approach to absolute chaos. It seems that if Myles just had a small part of that psychological fortitude, in that moment, things would have been much different.

That panzy is trying to rip your helmet off? Just jump up laughing at him... Put your arms in the air and let your rabid fans sing Rudolph his "good-bye lullaby".

That would have been much more fun.


As far as the whole "equity" issue... Same as it ever was. You'd have to be a fool to ignore the disparity of how teams are disciplined in this league. This one reeks.

People used to complain that Baker was making himself a target.

Well, there is now a bigger target.

There was a black TV sportscaster that right after it happened said Rudolph must have said something for Myles to go off like that.

He was the first one I heard mention it. He said that is the only thing he could think of that would set Myles off like that.

He did not hear it from anyone he just said that is the only thing he could think of that would make him go ballistic.

Are you saying Myles’ johnson is bigger than Baker?

I wouldnt know about that, but Baker Brown might.

Rudolph would know. He spent some time down there checking it out.

Lmao

This whole season has taken the wind out of my sails for an enjoyable season. This thing with Myles has sunk the boat.....

Well Decastro had the luxury of not being attacked in that moment...I don't think there is a comparison...JMO

NFL's collective bargaining agreement (CBA) reportedly states that the first-time fine for violation of rules re: fighting is $35,096, which is what Adam Schefter initially reported would be Rudolph's fine.

https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-mason-...-164759178.html

So why is he now being fined $50,000?

The only thing that changed since Schefter's report is that Myles Garrett's allegation of a racial slur by Rudolph during his appeal hearing was leaked. But the NFL said that no audio was available to support or refute Garrett's allegation.

I hope someone in the media asks the NFL to clarify why Rudolph's fine was in excess of the CBA's maximum allowed for a first-time offender. FWIW, his fine ended up being greater than Myles Garrett's ($45K).

Thanks for posting that.

Glad Rudolph was fined. Should have been suspended at least 3 games also.

Rudolph was just having a ball out there.

I am absolutely stunned. I'm a Union guy, I see how things go at my job. There are guidelines and rules in place and they are adhered to with regards to discipline, promotions, time off, vacations and everything in between.

I could swear there was language in the CBA regarding helmets as weapons.

Poor Richie.

Anytime, and I like how the media is all that has never happened before..well it looks like it has. But that wasn't a bonk on the head with the bottom of the helmet that was an uppercut to the face with the crown. However I'm sure Ritchie Incognito can take a better shot than Rudolph.

Poor Rudolph with his nose so bright...

I was listening to this Yellow sportcaster the other night and he said pee.Rudolf must haved peed on Garrett to get that reaction.

Well, he definitely pissed him off.

damn, grrl.

Is Myles allowed to travel with team and be on the sideline?

I would think that he is allowed no contact while under suspension.

i thought that too .. fines to the players probably doesn’t mean nearly as much as a punishment should

I thought it was absolutely no contact, but now that you ask I am not 100% sure.

He's suspended.

He's not allowed anywhere near his teammates or browns stadium.

Although it would be cool to see him in a suite as Niles Jarrett and the stadium cheer his presence.

But no. He's not allowed in the stadium.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steel...s-during-brawl/

Rudolf fined $4k more than Garrett.

I’m thank full for no suspension. Wink wink

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think some of the NFL Small Market teams (Browns, Saints, Lions, Bills, Jags, Titans, Bengals, and Colts) Owners need to meet with Vince McMahon and come to some sort of an agreement on a new league(Which im sure Vince would be more than happy to work with them) and these 8 teams just pull out of the NFL completely and be these 8 owners be the HUGE injection of money and capital to form a league that can outright compete with the NFL.

the NFL has been allowed to do WTH it wants for far too long, and has become a watered down league because of the lack of competition.

all 8 of these small market teams listed have been continually screwed over by the NFL for the better part of 20 years, look no farther than the NFL blantly screwing the Saints out of a Super Bowl berth last year.

Im sorry but its longer overdue for the re-establishment of the AFL. Those 8 owners, along with Vince creating another 8-12 teams...we will have a real competitor to the NFL, and those 8 NFL owners have enough capital to compete and bring in real big name players to its league. The fact this new league will have the old school 1980's rules where you will actually be watching "real football" instead of refs throwing flags all the time, this league will dig the NFL grave in 7-8 years.

Its long overdue, it needs to happen.

Typical .. so why not just say he’s suspended 6 games then? To prove a point that they didn’t lessen their original suspension?

I am going to buy everyone of my family and friends Garrett Jersey's for Christmas as a way to show the NFL I support Myles.

I know he went to far but I believe that he was provoked, and his temper got the better of him. He is IMO as fine a young man as any that play in the NFL.

"The NFL will be open-minded and listen to Garrett during the offseason meeting, and if his behavior is what the league hopes it will be and his answers are accurate, there's a strong chance he will not miss any playing time in 2020, according to sources."

What on God's green earth does that even mean?? The only thing that can be surmised is that he better do some serious a$$ kissing when they sit back down.

What a FARCE.

Oh yeah... And "shut up and stay in your lane until then".