DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns plan to retain Freddie Kitchens 'barring a horrific collapse'

I think Ron Rivera is a very underrated coach. Cam Newton won an MVP with Greg Olsen as his best weapon. They were consistently an extremely fundamental team.

Three names ranked in how I would prefer them.

1. Rivera
2. Gary Kubiak
(3a. Stick with Freddie)
3b. Mike McCarthy


I would fire Freddie tomorrow if I thought we could get Rivera.

14 Games in and this team is as lost as we were in TC.

Guys not lining up right, not knowing the play call, running to the line with little time left on the clock. having to line up WRs - the offense is just a mess. It was week 15! I mean goodness, if you cant at least get guys lined up by 15, what are you doing here?

Then add in again that players are quitting on the coach, yelling at him on the sideline (rightfully so), and just the overall lack of respect for FK, the writing is on the wall.

What do you guys expect to happen when Balt blows us out at home sunday?

It's your first main paragraph there (disorganization of the offense) that is starting to turn my opinion of FK. I can find a way to excuse A LOT, but the team looking like they got the playbook yesterday... in week 15... there's no excuse for that.

Again, I listened to the game (so I have to watch), but this is the feeling I was getting in the first quarter. Complete and total disorganization and no urgency.

NFL Gamepass is what I use. It's actually pretty great now that I'm living in Cinci, and I'd even go as far as to call it a worthwhile purchase each year. Just need to buy an Android box to get the video working right on my TV.

I'd put it another way. If I follow that line of thinking, it's whoever said that talking to the players and saying, "this is what needs to happen to get this guy out of the building".

So who wants to make the case for keeping Dorsey ?? I would love see it in print .lol

That case doesn't have to be made. Some people act as though GM's are supposed to be perfect. Yet there has never been such a thing.

We need to dump Dorsey, Freddie (and the entire staff), Baker, Chubb, Myles, and then dump all our high cap hits and start over.

And Zac Jackson ... he's the one constant through all this losing that hasn't changed. He needs to go, just in case.

j/c...

only team this decade without a winning season...christ

I think Randall is actually more part of the problem than part of the solution, he is a malcontent. He has not been happy in virtually every NFL situation he has had.

Randall and OBJ are more problem than solution at this point of the two only OBJ is really worth the gamble.

Which would be a case to keep Freddie actually....

We've won 6 games only one other time this decade and never more than 4 wins in back to back seasons. While we are all disappointed with this season, we could have back to back 7 win seasons for the first time since 1992/1993 ...


2018 7-8-1 3rd -- AFC North -- Hue Jackson,
Gregg Williams Roster / Stats
2017 0-16-0 4th -- AFC North -- Hue Jackson Roster / Stats
2016 1-15-0 4th -- AFC North -- Hue Jackson Roster / Stats
2015 3-13-0 4th -- AFC North -- Mike Pettine Roster / Stats
2014 7-9-0 4th -- AFC North -- Mike Pettine Roster / Stats
2013 4-12-0 4th -- AFC North -- Rob Chudzinski Roster / Stats
2012 5-11-0 4th -- AFC North -- Pat Shurmur Roster / Stats
2011 4-12-0 4th -- AFC North -- Pat Shurmur Roster / Stats
2010 5-11-0

And people wonder why some are skeptical when it comes to analytics.

I have been hard on Dorsey for some of his decisions, but I will make the case for keeping him. Write it down.

Now, if he doesn't fire Freddie, and we waste another year, my mind will be changed. But I am not about to run a guy out of town because he made a bad decision hiring Kitchens. Ill give him that pass - but I think he needs to be put on notice as well. Get it right moving forward, or get out.

Progress is progress?

j/c...

The Ravens open at -10. Jump on it now. This thing is a dumpster fire that we've all seen before.

J/c

Kareem Hunt just reported that guys took plays off and were not giving 110%. SMH

The wheels are falling off if you ask me. When we get trounced by Bmore this week, its really going to hit the fan.

i'm surprised this hasn't come out sooner..most fans realized this by the Bye week

And I don't blame any of these players. They played until it just didn't matter anymore.

j/c
I'm sure there will be drips and rumors - none of it will make any of us feel good about the Browns organization.

I'll keep it simple - Freddie has proven again why he's not HC material. I think given the regression we have seen by several players, not the least insignificant of which is Baker, you gotta look at HC, scheme and play calling.... preparedness like we saw vs Ten and Arizona sort of just top everything off.

I was thinking waiting till the end of the season would be the cleanest way to handle this - but I simply don't know. I'm leaning to letting him go this week if it was my decision. Start lining up interviews.

Dorsey owns a slice of all of this - but he's done enough in my eyes to warrant more time. The only concern I have is his ability / willingness to bring in someone that might be as big a name or force as he is. My top 2 HC options would be Rivera or McCarthy. I'd hope to hell Dorsey can make the best/right decision this go around.

J/C

This whole thing is a dumpster fire.

Dorsey is the best GM we have had in forever.
Nobody can scout like him.

He isnt going anywhere.

We just need new coaches.

And all you people making up imaginary stories about "Dorsey prefers weak coaches" ....PFFFT. Did you do a Vulcan mind meld with him?

I don't think either McCarthy or Rivera will come here if they are stuck with Dorsey.

Don't think coaches don't talk, im sure Andy Reid filled them in on the BS Dorsey does.

Also, don't forget the BS Dorsey did last year by trading away Jackson's starting RB(Hyde) against Jackson's wishes because he wanted Jackson to play his guy (Chubb). Even if it was the right decision, its unprofessional as all get, and I wouldn't want to work with a toxic GM that does that kinda BS. I am sure McCarthy and Rivera want NOTHING to do with that...we will have to send Dorsey packing to get either one of those guys to sign on here.

That sounds like a guy that doesn't believe what he's saying, but doesn't know what else to say and knows he can't say nothing.

The pain, the PAIN!!!!

The irony.

We see it all the time when you post.

j/c,
I think that Freddie has shown to be stiffnecked, and is unwilling to except criticism, where it is due.

Now he has lost the respect of this team, because of the bed that he has made.

This is not a salvageable situation imo...

Why hasn't he been fired yet?

Yep - I can't believe Dorsey forced Hue to play Chubb - one of th ebest backs in the NFL.

J/C

We have seen:

Players fighting in TC
Players suspended for the year for fights
Players threatening people on Social Media
Players calling out other players not playing 100%
Players calling out the medical staff
Players wearing inappropriate attire during games
Players calling for other teams to "come get them"
Players committing penalty after penalty
Players punching guys in the head during games
Players not practicing in cold weather



We have seen:

Team lose to multiple first year QBs, some of which undrafted
Team lose to inferior talent levels, multiple times
Team not knowing the playbook
Team not knowing where to line up
Team leading the league in penalties
Team having more than questionable play calls at key moments
Team not learning from mistakes
Team is not only not progressing, they are regressing.
Team is poorly organized and run.

Can anyone really defend any of this and give me an example why Freddie and co should be retained? Honest question.

I know I keep hearing snide remarks about firing Freddie and why we need to stay the course and a lot about first year HC's. But can anyone actually give me a REASON for Freddie to stay that actually pertains to Freddie and not some "well look at Chuck Knoll" argument. Because guess what, Freddie aint Chuck Knoll.

I have stayed out of discussions and arguments about Freddie Kitchens. I have been thinking it is best to stay the course. Kitchens is a rookie HC with a less than average resume, so it's natural that he would need more time to learn the job. Patience. He was hired because of the apparent chemistry between himself and the QB Mayfield. Mayfield has regressed. That is not abnormal for a 2nd year QB. Patience. The Browns have traditionally had a short leash for HC, resulting in a profound lack of continuity over the years. To only way to remedy that is to finally give out more leash. Patience.

But what was evident during yesterday's game, was that Kitchens has lost the respect of the team. No matter what has been said to this point by Dorsey and the Haslams, I think it is now evident that replacing Kitchens is the best way forward. Sorry Freddie, you had my support, but you lost it when you lost your team.

How much time do we think Freddie is actually spending with Baker? He's spending time on all the extraneous BS that a HC has to deal with. He's had a lot of that non-football stuff he's had to waste time on.

It's all the other coaches around Baker that changed. Monken and Lindley seem to have been a step back from the people we had last year. I get that the buck stops with Freddie, but he's got Callaway's stupidity to deal with and Randall's acting out to handle. He's the one facing Mary Kay and Grossi's (negative) leading questions day in and day out. He'd been trying to make sure OBJ's frustration didn't boil over. He's got to set schedules and approve travel plans.

It's easy to blame Freddie, but why aren't people looking at Monken? Because Kitchens is unlike Hue, and he hasn't thrown his OC under the bus? Monken's got more time to spend on/with the offense. He was allegedly a passing game guru, but that's the part of the offense that looks horrendous.

I also think part of the reason defenses "know" our playcalling is because the pass plays and run plays don't tie together as well as they used to. It's like we've tacked a completely different looking passing game onto last year's playbook that had the old passing game that played off the other plays torn out.

We don't have Mike Evans to make the offense work like it did for Monken (sort of) in TB and Manziel at A&M before him. Too much ad libbing on routes rather than precision. I wonder if the problem now is really the playcalling or just the execution of those plays. Hmmmmmmm isn't execution kind of similar to coordination?

Dorsey had Freddie bring in experienced coordinators so he could delegate things to them, but I'm not sure they are holding up their end of the bargain.

Whose vision are we following here? It doesn't seem very cohesive. We got names, but they are looking less and less like fits.

Maybe we can salvage this thing with only Monken agreeing to part ways.

Good post. I agree, Monken and his air raid need to go. The route concepts have been ugly all year making Baker even more confused beyond the leagues adjustment to him.

Baker dominated the middle of the field last year.....all of our passes are outside the hashes....

We run from shotgun on the goaline....


get this garbage (air raid) out of my face.

This was a fun read.

(I agree, btw.)

Just saw the presser, man I've never seen a bigger group of idiots than those reporters asking the questions. The last question, "Do you understand the disappointment the fans are feeling?" What a well thought out intelligent inquiry there.