DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns plan to retain Freddie Kitchens 'barring a horrific collapse'

For the sake of argument I'll go along with the theory he has lost the locker room for the purpose of this debate.

What possible good would it do to name an interim HC with two games left?

I mean to me it was far more debatable to question if he had lost the locker room before the Arizona game. I think we both agree that giving a first time HC only one season to prove himself doesn't look good to future HC candidates looking at the possibility of considering Cleveland as their next destination. Could you imagine how much worse the optics would be to those potential HC candidates if Freddie wasn't even given the full season?

I don’t agree oooob ... bring in fresh blood, switch things up .. give the troops a jolt ...

If he’s lost the LR were a rudderless ship .. ok, more rudderless than it appears tp be now .. *L* ...

If he lost the LR make the change now ... give the troops a “jolt” something different ...

… if you listen to the propaganda network of the Cleveland Browns, it seems the setup for a fall guy is wilks (the drum was really beating right before AZ)

nobody has earned / deserves their jobs on this staff but I think the FO knows they need to make a sacrifice to the blood god and tag you are it

Give the troops a jolt in time for the off-season? Sorry, don't see the point.

If it were as little as 2 weeks ago, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

No one. Its one of those things, we will never truly know.

Just have to make an educated OPINION or GUESS as to what it really was.

But to say it was one way or other, I was just pointing out that either side is wrong if they do.

Pulling a "Ray Horton," eh?

I think there's a difference between a logical conclusion and a far fetched one.

Two reasons:

1. Who takes over - Monken or Wilkes. Niether honestly IMO are going to be a good option, so there really is no difference.

2. If the FO knows they are canning Freddie, and have outside idea of who they want or a list of guys, the last thing they want is to can FK and then we beat Baltimore and cincy under Monken. Then the "keep monken" train will start. Its best to just let them finish the year and wipe the slate clean IF that is whats going to happen.

Honestly, idk if they are going to can him. I think they should, I think if we get blown out this week they will. But if we give a good showing this week and win next week, I can see the case for keeping him and making other changes.

But that's not we are talking about in this post, so we wont go down that road. . .

For your question only - with two weeks left, your out of the playoffs more than likely, and you don't want either of the guys behind him as your gonna can them too - let him finish the year and move on.

Agreed, there is. I am not debating that is a real possibility you are correct. I am saying that posting as if it is correct, is wrong. That's all.

I didn't know saying, "It does sound more like trash talk than anything else" was saying it was correct.

Thats one way to go i guess ... i just don’t agree with it ...

I’m certainly not going to keep him cause I’m worried about whoever takes over winning the last 2 and the ground swell of support for me to keep that person the following year ...

Thats just silly bro ... your reaching on that one ..

I have refrained from posting most of this season but to say I’m disappointed is a massive understatement.

The only thing I will say. If we had played disciplined, well executed, well prepared ball this season, with the infusion of talent, we’d be sitting fairly prettily. We were playing disciplined, well executed and well prepared ball end of last year. It’s the most frustrating season I’ve ever watched. We’ve absolutely handled Baltimore at their house. Then we turn into the pumpkin. That kind of inconsistent is on the coaches. Plain and simple. Urgh.

And to a large degree I certainly agree with that. What does puzzle me is when posters attribute things to the coaches that isn't on them.

I don’t think I did? I think I posted a very balanced narrative. My main point is the difference in attitude, preparation and execution between now and then. Plays are getting in late. Baker is having to tell guys where to line up for the love of all things orange. Who’s that on? Where’s the accountability for that? It’s more frustrating than the 1-31 because it’s all mental.

I blame OBJ for all the balls he's dropped.

I account for a certain amount of drop off in OBJ's ability to get open (by his own standards of shiftiness and separation) to his injury.

I blame Baker for missing open WR's much, much more frequently than a franchise QB should.

I blame Freddie for not having a scheme that makes more use of OBJ's talent and every other WR on the team. I blame Freddie for throwing too much - and for not adjusting to Baker's struggles.

In the post I made initially I didn't blame anyone but OBJ for his drops - and I see you have another new post talking about posters blaming drops on other things - or about posters blaming coaching for things that aren't the coaches responsibility .... I'm curious to know what you think you are reading ?

I blame Freddie and Monken for the fact that 3 or 4 other teams have come out after our game and admitted they KNEW what we were going to do before we did it on most plays. If 3 or 4 picked up on it, the other 11 or 12 did too, they just didn't say anything.

The Cardinals defensive coordinator came out before the game and said our plays are predictable.

You know, will, the weather has sucked lately. I guess that is on Freddie too?? lol

And yes, OBJ has dropped more catchable balls than I’d expect. Landry has been the #1 playmaker without doubt. I have always liked him and I hope he stays a Brown a long time. I hope the same for OBJ. We need quality. I think those two together wreaking havoc would be beautiful to behold. Saying that, I’d rather Chubb / Hunt ran 30 times a game. Man, we have so much offensive talent it’s galling.

Making a minor sacrifice is really just kicking the can down the road. If I'm Dorsey, I realize this isn't about Freddie's job, it's about mine. Dorsey can get a do-over on butchering his coaching selection if he fixes it now and fixes it right. If his decision is to ride another year with Freddie and it turns out to be anything less than a solid playoff season... then not only is Freddie gone, Dorsey is likely gone with him.

I'm not in the building every day to know what's going on but from my couch, if you asked me to put MY JOB on the line that Freddie can pull this together?.. I don't think so.

This is how I envision all of our coaches meetings during the week:

Asst. Coach: I've watched all the film. Our opponent struggles to stop the run and their offense really struggles when you blitz them a lot.

Other Asst. Coach: Yea, I saw the same thing. It seems obvious but, what game plan are we setting up?

Freddie: It is obvious, we aren't going to run the ball or blitz because that's what they'll be expecting........

I see you continually criticizing other posters for finding and detailing issue with our coaching staff ... but instead of supplying reasons why they are wrong, or an alternate viewpoint you call them 'geniuses' or poke fun at them. If you think Freddie is doing a great job - please provide some context for that perspective.

I think Mike Priefer has done a pretty great job. I'm not sure he's qualified to be a HC, but he did improve our Kick/Punt teams over last year. The thing I like about ST coaches being Head Coaches is that they are smart enough to know what they don't know, and are more willing to delegate to their OC and DC. Bill Cowher comes to mind when I think about ST coordinators who became successful HCs. There's others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Edit: John Harbaugh was the ST coord whose name escaped me.

The Browns likely won't want the guy that was suspended 3 games for saying, “We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows," leading the franchise.

They've had enough headaches in the PR department.

Do things like that and let’s say Bountygate really prevent those guys from getting HC gigs? If the team is willing to hire them as a coordinator, it’s not like that’s a low profile position either. Sean Payton was banned for his role in Bountygate and they still held his job for him. If he decided he wanted a change of scenery, I’m not sure another team would say no to hiring him over it like some tend to attribute to GW.

We can forgive domestic abusers, habitual drunks and drug abusers, even felons, but God forbid we forgive a guy who told an offensive and regrettable joke that witnesses say the "offended" person (Chris Kluwe) laughed at. He was suspended without pay, sent to sensitivity training, widely castigated and humiliated, and he then apologized publicly. But that's clearly not good enough, nor will it ever be. Maybe Oprah Winfrey, Phil Donahue, or Dr Phil will take the job, because I doubt you'll find a football guy who never told an off-color joke.

Just noting the likely reality of the situation of Priefer becoming our HC.

I have a theory I want to throw out there. Maybe the players haven't soured on Freddie, but maybe it's Baker. How many games have we seen Jarvis or Odell open and the ball thrown over their head and intercepted, or not even thrown their way? The passing game IMO, next to horrible schemes, is suffering more from Baker's poor play, than playcalling IMO. He has a progression, I doubt he is told throw to one guy only on a given play. Freddie has his own problems, don't get me wrong, but Baler has not been good. Without garbage time this past week, he wouldn't have even broken 200 yards against a team giving up an average of 300+ weekly.

Just a thought

As for the "horrific collapse", I see the Cardinals game as step one. If these guys show the same effort against Baltimore at home, I would call that the final nail. Losing to Cinci would throw the dirt on the coffin.

If this were early in the season and everyone were healthy, maybe. Our defense stands no chance as is (assuming no Vernon.) Plus there's the likelihood that these games are likely meaningless anyways. We're ~99.9% out of the playoffs. Winning would really only drop us further down the draft board and maybe make us drop down a tier on the available OTs when we pick.

We might both be trying to lose in week 17.

Sad, but some of Dorsey's decisions after Myles' suspension looked like he was going full Sam Hinkie on the rest of the season.

If we can work on specific aspects of something and get better, that's great. I'm not worried about winning when it no longer matters and our roster is missing key pieces.

Maybe the players have just soured on losing. Who can blame them? Losing sucks.

As a lifelong fan, I could never say this

The players know why they are losing. They see the film. Losing brings out the blame game, and I have to believe that when they watch the film, they know who is to blame.

Sorry Mac. I don't agree, even if I have mellowed a bit and consider you a friend and try to agree.

I don't think OBJ is disappointing. A player doesn't go from one of the most dynamic in the league to a "average Joe" at his age unless something is causing it.

There are factors in play that are causing him to look rather average, and it isn't just OBJ.

Interesting take. Baker clearly isn’t the same charismatic leader he was last year. It’s probably not helping matters, but I don’t think he’s been so bad that he’s the primary source of the overall team demeanor.

Jarvis seems to be getting his. If he had a problem with Baker I’d think we’d see him yelling at Bake, not Lindley and Freddie. Unless there is some seriously bad blood between he and Bake.

Just clicking.

Here's a question. When all is said and done, who is going to be our head coach for game 1 of the 2020 season?

1) Freddie Kitchens
2) Someone other than Freddie Kitchens

If you had to put your money on one of those, which would it be?

I'm going with 2) someone other than FK. Call it a gut feeling, but it's a gut feeling based on how the season has transpired and some of the distractions along the way.

Baker is one of the 5 worst QB in the league this year, so yes he's the primary source of problems in this team, he and the HC.

Let me rephrase that. taking into consideration the quality of the OL receivers and support cast, Baker is hands down the worst QB in the league this year.