DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Depodesta needs to GO...

While I liked a lot of the moves and draft picks Dorsey made, he also had a lot of bad moves, not necessarily just in regards to player personnel and coaches, but the salary cap. I'm sure the cap moves especially grated on Depodesta.

A couple moves I remember from before this season: keeping Chris Smith and TJ Carrie. In hindsight, these were horrible decisions. If I remember correctly, the Browns could have saved more than $10 million in cap space for future seasons, which could come in handy when discussing future contracts for Schobert, Randall, and Garrett. That far outweighs any contributions we got from them this year.

Dorsey came into an amazing situation with multiple high draft picks and salary cap space, but he failed to deliver a winner. Our cap situation is nowhere near where it was when Dorsey started, but we are still ok.

Luckily for us, Dorsey did significantly upgrade the talent level of this team. It's up to the new GM/coach to make the most of this existing talent, fitting it to their system, while continuing to build the team, apparently with an analytical approach.

They're cheapskates yet went out and signed Landry and then added OBJ?! Cap should be saved and spent when you get to the point where 1 or 2 pieces are needed to put you over the top! You must be smart with it! We see careless teams get in cap trouble constantly! You give DePo FAR to much credit than he deserves! You cant say you dont know what he's done to the positive yet be so matter of fact that he's some destructive force in Berea with some nefarious agenda! You dont, and I dont really know either way what DePos contributions have been! Ridiculous!!!!

Mac....we literally spent the 4th most money in the league this year on our players. You have no leg to stand on when you say we're fielding a "cheap" team.

This doesn't even take into account the mountain of money we are paying to coaches and GMs that no longer work for the Browns.

Moneyball started in baseball, where there is no salary cap. Teams have vastly different budgets depending on popularity, market size, etc. One of the ideas behind Moneyball was to be more efficient; a small-market team like Oakland couldn't spend with the Yankees and such so they had to be better and smarter with every dollar spent.

The result in the early 2000s was actually pretty good, with the A's winning 90+ games every season and 100+ games a couple times, though they lost 3-2 in the first round of the playoffs a bunch of times, so there's that.

The NFL is different as there is both a salary cap and a salary floor, which off the top of my head is something like 89% of the salary cap over a rolling 4 year period. So basically, the lowest spending teams are not that much lower than the highest spending teams, compared to what it is in baseball. It's a moot point though because 'Moneyball' was not designed to spend less money. It was more like the requirement of spending less due to MLB dynamics that led to the development of more efficient ideas.. I think you have that one backwards.

Dorsey brought in talent, just like he did with other teams, just because they were hurt and/or didn't perform to the level of their talent, isn't his fault.

I agree that Depo has done little to nothing and I'm not a big backer of analytics, it's a tool that can be used but shoudl never be the end all be all to finding talent.

Dorsey didn't build other teams in one season and not all of his decisions were perfect, that's my guess, so, I'd saY Haslam had a dumbass knee jerk reaction and didn't give Dorsey a fair amount of time. Hell, Hue Jackass got 2 and as half seasons.

We were 7-8-1 in 2018, that's 1 win and 1 tie better, you could absolutely say that Kitchens incapable playcalling and ability to be a decent HC cost us that much in wins, at least.

We got Landry in a trade.

Does he play for free?

Nope .. but his salary was set by other people .. not our front office.

Just curious....how do you know what Depo does or doesn't do?

Do you have a inside track?

We do know what Depodesta did... He engineered a rebuild, a mathematical "tear down", it was ugly and entirely necessary. When he was done with Phase 1 we had more high draft picks than anybody in the history of the league. He turned a 1 million dollar investment (Brock Osweiler's salary) into Nick Chubb. Everyone in the NFL stopped dead in their tracks at the sheer genius of the move.

He created friction with Dorsey when (many assume this to be true) he convinced Jimmy that Haley was a terrible choice for interim coach because of the expectations that he would be retained. He created more when he favored Kevin Stefanski over Kitchens... alas, Dorsey "flexed his muscles" and got his way. If you'd rather have a "yes man" that just agrees with every idea from the "type A" in the room, you're just asking for more dysfunction.

As far as "quest for power", I'm at a total loss for what you mean by that. Seems to me he is just doing his job.

"Moneyball" was designed for a baseball team to compete in a small market. What he is doing with the the Browns has little to do with that concept. The NFL is more of a level playing field because of salary cap. With that said, Depodesta stockpiled an unprecedented amount of capital in a short amount of time... And Dorsey looked like an 18 year old dropped off at a strip club with a briefcase full of cash. There is nobody in our organization interested in "hoarding cash". That said, few are interested in burning it all for a night out on the town. There are some bills coming due, and Depodesta will also be the architect in working that out... Dorsey had already proven he was a big "fail" in that aspect.

I don't like what just happened, but there is one person to blame for the Dorsey firing, it's the one he sees in the mirror. Particularly true, if after this debacle, he offered no leeway in correcting the course going forward. "My way or the highway" was dead by week 10.

This is false. He signed a new contract when he was traded.

Name calling clearly points to your intelligence.



Had you have said that in the first place I would have agreed with you.



Only the bad mechanic here was Freddie. That decision lays squarely on the shoulders of Dorsey. But everyone from coast to coast knows Dorsey assembled the talent to have a winner with the Browns. You do too.

So using your analogy, we fired a mechanic who did a great job with the exception that he did a poor job on break work. I think the actual decision boils down to that mechanic refusing to quit working on the breaks.



Once you have something to teach me I'll pay attention to it.

The Dolphins signed Landry to a 16.5 mil Franchise tag, establishing the market for the trade. The Browns then signed him to a 5 year contract, with only the last year of the contract ( 2022 ) being higher than Dolphin's annual contract.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/jarvis-landry-14473/

I don't. And neither does anyone else on this board. But to read it, even with that in mind, it sounds like some posters would advocate a statue of him being placed in front of the stadium.

But you claim he is part-time!

This stuff is hysterical.

Yeah, a guy who won't even move to the city where the team is isn't very committed to working with those around him.

I think you are reading too much in to things.

I am a fan of Depo, but don't hold him up to some legendary status, nor see others.

On the other hand, I do see people up in arms any time Depo's name mentioned. Look at the thread title.

It isn't Depo's fault he has backed guys who would have been better. It's not his fault that Dorsey didn't draft all that well considering the number of picks and failed in a historic way in choosing a coach for this team.

Now you have Haslam looking at Depo's thought's on what we should have done V what Dorsey did. You, I and most everybody else would conclude we need to listen to Depo more.

John got all bent up with that idea and couldn't deal with it....so here we are, posters getting all bent up because Depo might actually be a big value to this team.

Being in charge of the search and making the decision are two different things. I highly doubt you hire a GM and HC who have to report to the analytics guy. If that happens, the disaster here will continue.

Dorsey did a great job of building this roster. He screwed the pooch when he hired Freddie. And I certainly don't doubt Depodesta's contributions to the Browns. And yes, mac has gone off the deep end on this one.

You have lost your marbles here. Each year you have to plan on the signings next year when considering cap space. There has been nothing cheap about the cap space spent here over the past two years.

I agree. I don't think Depo is all of a sudden in charge of things. Haslam might be listening to him a bit more.

He has him in charge of the search. So what? What does that mean? It could mean a lot of things, but I don't think it means that Depo is the exclusive voice on who gets hired.

Like I said previously, some people hear Depo's name and they go berserk.

J/c

I’m wondering: did JD just like FK because he could control him? Is that the gist of his insisting FK remains coach?

And signing Chris Hubbard to a massive contract
And signing TJ Carrie to a massive contract
And trading Zeitler for Vernon
And trading a 3rd rounder for T. Taylor
And trading Ogbah/ cutting Nassib (simply as depth guys)
The trade of OBJ looks like a joke.
And cutting,then reneging and trading McCourty to NE because he realized people valued him.

I can go on, if you'd like.

That's the popular rumor. Nothing more.

Boy I botched that post....sorry

"Triggered" is the appropriate term.

The GM and Head Coach will never report to Depodesta. Not in this universe. There is not a worry in my mind that Jimmy is considering anything like that. Depo's title is chief strategy officer, and will remain the same. It has much more to do with giving people useful information and ideas than rejecting theirs.

We have to follow the flowchart... Dorsey rejected and structural changes and parted ways. My best guess is that he wanted direct control of the entire process. Now that he's gone, who should be in charge of "directing the coaching search"?

I think people tend to put too much stock in our daily rumors and sound bytes. Depo is merely the person in charge of organizing the interview process and being a set of ears in the room. Why? Because he has been entrusted with the mechanics of building a sustainable future - from a business standpoint, not an "Xs and Os" standpoint. To say that candidates won't bother because he is directing the search is a bit of a reach imo. Everything else you said about our history and dysfunction has little to nothing to do with Depo.

I think we're seeing a drastic change in philosophy in how NFL teams are run. A coach and GM need to be more of a tandem than part of a hierarchy. We're seeing the two be hired together more and more. Teams are parting ways with both when changes need to be made to ensure the next two are "on the same page" from the beginning. Personally, I think that opens more doors than it closes, and makes the probability of hiring experience at the HC level easier. In essence, the prospect can pitch his entire sale instead of wondering if he will mesh with the current GM.

j/c...

I'm not sure how I feel about Stefanski. I'm looking for a solid solution that is has proven success at the HC level in the NFL.

It seems to me that with Wolf already here and McCarthy's proven track record as an NFL HC, that would be the best combination with the least amount of turmoil. They have worked together before and the results were good. McCarthy has openly spoken about being willing to use analytics as a tool in team building. That looks like a combination where those two and Depo may be able to work well together. That would be a nice change of pace.

Secondly I like the idea of Jim Caldwell as has been mentioned on the board. His record isn't as impressive as McCarthey's but he had much less to work with in terms of talent. He also seemed to get more out of Stafford than any other HC the Lions have had. The latest rumor I've seen about him is he may be going to Miami as an asst. coach.

I believe (no evidence) that Depodesta has been preaching this all along and probably has shown his case on paper.
Everyone on the same page or failure.
It may not have to be HIS guy but just the group that works together.

But in reality, insert any person's name, and getting others in concert for a unified vision/direction is always a plus.

There are a lot of things missing and incorrect with this post.

For example, DePo has the same title with both regimes, so if we are going to incorrectly attribute every pick in 2016 to him, let's also incorrectly attribute every pick to him in 2017, 2018, 2019 to him as well.

Through what process did we arrive at the assumption that Paul Depodesta was making our draft picks??

C'mon bro.