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Kitchens killed any chance of Chubb winning the title with his playcalling in the final three games.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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The poorly named rushing 'title'.
I propose we stop using that name and say "led the league in rushing yards" instead.
There's no title or championship involved in having the highest personal stats in a category.
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Yea...Chubb should’ve won the rushing title if it weren’t for Freddie.
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Makes no difference to me. Now if you want to say he should have gotten more carries as that would have given the Browns a better chance to win, that's different.
Leading the league in x category just doesn't translate very well in the NFL. There's too much going on, other players affect performances, there's usage vs efficiency, and so on. Look at the passing yards leader-- Jameis Winston with 5,109. Just don't forget about the 30 interceptions and 7-9 record.
The actual rushing 'champion', Derrick Henry, didn't even play the second to last week of the season on a coaching decision. The way the tie-breakers worked, it was really week 17 that mattered to the Titans.
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Umm, I think everybody was rooting for Chubb to get the title as a moral victory to an otherwise trash ass season. Just like getting obj 1000 yards or something like that.
Also, giving Chubb more carries absolutely gives us the best chance to win, so it’s effectively killing two birds with one stone.
I don’t understand why you’re pushing back on fans wanting the highest character guy on our team to get the rushing title since we had nothing else to play for. Kinda odd.
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For the record, I've been a huge fan of Nick's for longer than many others have. Read this thread if you need confirmation: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1593360/chubb-or-hunt#Post1593360It's just that whether he finished with 1,494 yards or maybe could have gotten >1,540 yards with heavier usage from our lame duck coach just doesn't really matter. I actually think we could have used Hunt more down the stretch (pushing Chubb's numbers down), just to divvy up the workload more and extend Chubb's career. Backs who get 300+ carries a year usually don't last long in this league.
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Umm, I think everybody was rooting for Chubb to get the title as a moral victory to an otherwise trash ass season. Just like getting obj 1000 yards or something like that.
Also, giving Chubb more carries absolutely gives us the best chance to win, so it’s effectively killing two birds with one stone.
I don’t understand why you’re pushing back on fans wanting the highest character guy on our team to get the rushing title since we had nothing else to play for. Kinda odd. To me, gunning for personal stats is not a moral victory. I actually think it's the opposite of what this team needs. If giving Chubb more carries gave us the best chance to win, that's a reasonable point. I didn't watch much of the Bengals game honestly, like you said-- trash season, and I didn't care to watch much of the Browns lose to the 1-14 Bengals. But if it was all about winning the game, why does everybody keep bringing up the rushing title as if it's so important? I agree that Chubb is a high character guy, I've said that repeatedly and have thought that he has been one of the best backs in the league going back to last season. I still do not care about leading the league in a personal stat.. what is odd about that?
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Again, because it’s good to have a player on the team you root for lead the league in something good, like rushing yards.
It’s not anything deeper than that. It’s really that simple. We had nothing to play for, no playoffs, no spoiler, or anything. Just pride. So why not try to get your guy the rushing title, since it ALSO gives you the best chance to win the last game of the season by giving him carries?
This isn’t calculus.
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Already said what I wanted to say.
I just don't want to hear you say that stats don't matter in the future, that it's all about winning games. Because clearly the stats do matter, it's more a matter of when and how much they matter.
As far as calculus, I'd rather do that than continue this silly debate.
Last edited by Haus; 01/02/20 10:58 AM.
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Because clearly the stats do matter, it's more a matter of when and how much they matter. Great job captain obvious. As far as calculus, I'd rather do that than continue this silly debate. That’s how I feel about the majority of our interactions.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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just clickin' https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...e1-24bcf07e2701‘Motivation.’ Nick Chubb: 2019 season will drive Cleveland Browns’ efforts in preparation for 2020
Cleveland Browns running back Nick Chubb believes the struggles in the 2019 season will motivate the team during preparation for 2020.
Author: Matthew Florjancic
Published: 10:33 AM EST December 28, 2019
Updated: 10:33 AM EST December 28, 2019
CLEVELAND — During the much-hyped 2019 season, the Cleveland Browns finished short of the end goal of competing for an AFC North Division championship and breaking the National Football League’s longest-running playoff drought.
Although the Browns did not achieve those goals, running back Nick Chubb is confident he and his teammates will handle the disappointment in a positive way in preparation for the 2020 season.
“Just motivation,” Chubb said. “Just knowing how it feels to not be as successful and to lose certain games. To carry that on to the offseason training and just never forget how we feel now and not ever wanting to feel this again.
“We know what we did this year -- things that worked and things that did not work -- so just learn from that and next year, come in with a different mindset, fix all of the small things and get ready to try again at it.”
Chubb said the Browns have been learning “small things, situational football’ during the weeks leading up to games and need to have a greater understanding that “every play matters,” and that success on game day starts with building good habits in practice and meetings.
“It is the NFL,” Chubb said. “It is tough because everyone is a really good team, and it is a week-in and week-out thing. For us to be consistent and be who we are every game because the first game we played (the Ravens), it was completely different.
“We made the plays we needed to make and we did a great job on defense. This game, things just did not go our way from that aspect, so it is just being the same team every week, week in and week out for 16 weeks and see where you are at the end of the season.”
The Browns officially were eliminated from postseason contention with their 31-15 loss to the AFC North Division champion Baltimore Ravens at FirstEnergy Stadium in Cleveland last Sunday, a game that allowed Baltimore to clinch home-field advantage for as long as they remain in the playoffs.
The Browns (6-9) last qualified for postseason play during the 2002 season.
In addition to missing the playoffs for the 17th straight time, the Browns will finish the 2019 season with a sub .500 record for the 12th consecutive year. The best the Browns can do record-wise is 7-9 if they beat the Cincinnati Bengals at Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati Sunday, which would be a half-game worse than the 7-8-1 mark they posted in 2018.
The Browns last finished above .500 when they had a 10-6 record in 2007, and key members of this team are determined to bring the franchise back to prominence in the postseason.
“They deserve it,” Chubb said of the fans waiting 17 years for a return to the AFC playoffs. “They’ve been sticking in for a long time. Feel like the team deserves it, too, organization because we’ve all been going through it together, working for it and things like that, but we’ll get it fixed.” This is one of the things that makes Nick special. He talks about winning, using this season as motivation, how bad it feels to lose games. Learn from past mistakes, come in with a different mindset, fix the small things. Every play matters. Gives a shoutout to the fans. Nothing about personal stats and accolades. We need more players like Chubb on this team. That's when we will start to win more games than we lose.
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j/c Yeah, it's all Freddie's fault Derrick Henry rushed for 211 yards. I mean we all saw that one coming. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'll put it another way.
As you say, individual awards mean very little. Chubb even said the same. Even taking that into account, the rushing title was the only thing of consequence going on during our last game. We were eliminated from the playoffs and set at 3rd in the AFCN. Cinci locked up pick#1 already. There was literally nothing else to play for other than the rushing title going to Chubb, and others (OBJ) hitting stat milestones.
So as unimportant as it may have been, it was the most significant thing going on in that game.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I understand the argument you are making as well as the thought process. I just don't agree with it. When I say that personal stats don't matter, and that we should think more in terms of the team-- Those aren't just empty words; I actually mean it.
There's a lot that goes into rushing yards to begin with. If we're going to judge a running back, let's not do it based on rushing yards (which is heavily influenced by number of carries, offensive line, scheme, etc.) but something that encompasses more of a running back's performance, including in the passing game. For example, I posted numerous times how Chubb was PFF's #1 rated back last year. This is based on grading every play, even the boring stuff like blocking or catching a dump off pass.
He has an elite PFF grade again this year though they have changed their system and position rankings are no longer free/public info (does anybody have a membership?) This means more to me than something as narrow as number of rushing yards. That's an archaic measure of a running back's performance and I still don't think the rushing "title" is a fitting name at all.
For anybody who skipped over all of the above, I do not care about who has how many rushing yards.
Last edited by Haus; 01/02/20 12:22 PM.
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j/c Yeah, it's all Freddie's fault Derrick Henry rushed for 211 yards. I mean we all saw that one coming. Right? I thought Chubb had it locked. Chubb was 28 - 86 the last two games, no "chunk" runs, and to my eye was looking a bit worn. Nobody saw that coming from Henry as his previous two games looked a lot like Chubb's last two.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Fair enough. I understand what you're saying.
I agree with what you say about using another metric other than yards to judge a RB, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the rushing title, which is total yards.
Other than that nitpick, I agree with what you say.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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For anybody who skipped over all of the above, I do not care about who has how many rushing yards.
Posting again to make clear I didn't skip this part. Allegedly, players were miffed at his non usage leaving to bring overtaken by Henry. You may (or may not, can't be sure) be more lonely than you think with your opinion. Not saying you're wrong, just trying to further/better explain my view.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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For anybody who skipped over all of the above, I do not care about who has how many rushing yards.
Posting again to make clear I didn't skip this part. Allegedly, players were miffed at his non usage leaving to bring overtaken by Henry. You may (or may not, can't be sure) be more lonely than you think with your opinion. Not saying you're wrong, just trying to further/better explain my view. You have done a good job explaining your view. I appreciate it. I already know I'm (mostly) alone in my thinking-- reading through this thread made that abundantly clear. I do wonder which players were miffed that Chubb didn't enough carries down the stretch. Was it the same players who were so unprepared/unprofessional that they couldn't learn the offense enough to even get lined up in the right spot consistently?
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You're certainly not alone in your opinion.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Last edited by GratefulDawg; 03/21/20 11:25 AM.
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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He is awesome. This is one guy that I hope plays his whole career as a Brown.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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Chubb is a freaking stud ... and Burns is right: this ZBS fits him to a T
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Only thing I'm worried about for next year...is he going to be as comfortable running with a fullback?
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Nick couldn't be more different from Barry Sanders as a runner but his style is still beautiful. The decisiveness of his cuts is surgical. His ability to navigate angles in small spaces is highly developed. His vision, power, and speed are all first class. Perfect RB for a run first, natural turf, outdoor football team.
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I do think Chubb will be a good fit for the ZBS. He has that ability to stick his foot in the ground and make a decisive and explosive cut.
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Only thing I'm worried about for next year...is he going to be as comfortable running with a fullback? Of course. It would be no different than Hunt being his lead blocker.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Only thing I'm worried about for next year...is he going to be as comfortable running with a fullback? I don't think it will be a problem. Here's why. Nick already shows great patience pressing the LOS. Also, the FB in Stefanski's scheme is not always in a traditional I formation. Expect the FB to be aligned similar to Juszczyk is used in SF (damn, that's as hard to spell as it is to pronounce).
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Only thing I'm worried about for next year...is he going to be as comfortable running with a fullback? You should not worry about Chubb one bit. Georgia ran a pro-style offense and used a lot of FB.
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I agree ... chubb is not anywhere near my worry list lol
Btw, great sig!!
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Thank you for the info! I figured he'd be fine, but just didn't know how much experience he had with a fullback.
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Some really good film breakdown of Nick Chubb 2 hrs long for your enjoyment  https://youtu.be/k_YZZ7RIxHQ
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Very interesting. My son told me about a deep dive into Nick Chubb and why he would be the next 2k runner.
A lot goes on in a runner's decisions from play design and what actually takes place post snap.
Chubb is so efficient no waste in his style. He has everything you look for in a runner.
This coming season should be real interesting with the add a fullback and more two TE sets incorporated into a ZBS.
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Very interesting. My son told me about a deep dive into Nick Chubb and why he would be the next 2k runner.
A lot goes on in a runner's decisions from play design and what actually takes place post snap.
Chubb is so efficient no waste in his style. He has everything you look for in a runner.
This coming season should be real interesting with the add a fullback and more two TE sets incorporated into a ZBS.
I like how they showed him running agaist stacked boxs and yet still being effective, even with some leaky line play (that improved somewhat with Wyatt) ... which in the process showed the ineptitude of Freddie's offense. Our offense should (needs) be able to make teams pay in the passing game whenever they are stacking the box on us. I think getting them out of that stacked box, in combination with a revamped OL and the ZBS will only offer Chubb and others better opportunities to break off some long runs.
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Last year RG was musical chairs. Who was going to hold the job?
Hubbard IMO was a swinging gate in pass protection and adequate in the run game.
Robinson at LT was inconsistent and was flagged often.
We have a very good OL coach in Callahan. The revamped OL will need some time to gel. Practice with the virus may be a challenge. But every team will face that challenge.
One would think having Hunt all season and the emphasis on running will help Nick. Not that he needs much help.
I would think offensively the team will improve.
How the ball will be spread around will be interesting the Browns will have many options.
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A few thoughts:
--I think Nick Chubb will be very good in a ZBS. I think he has that ability to put a foot in the ground and take off. That is what you want in your RB behind a ZBS OL.
--Nick Chubb is my favorite player on the team and I rarely have favorite players. He just seems like such a good dude.
--I do not think Chubb is a good short-yardage/goal line runner. His weakness is that he runs too high. He is also a "read" runner. The latter thing is good most of the time, but not in short yardage situations.
--If I was the coach, I would put in Hunt in the short yardage and goal line situations. He runs a lot lower and is more decisive in his decisions.
--I think the Browns are in a great situation at RB. Thanks Dorsey. You might not have dressed the part, but you sure knew how to acquire talent!
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A few thoughts:
--I think Nick Chubb will be very good in a ZBS. I think he has that ability to put a foot in the ground and take off. That is what you want in your RB behind a ZBS OL.
--Nick Chubb is my favorite player on the team and I rarely have favorite players. He just seems like such a good dude.
--I do not think Chubb is a good short-yardage/goal line runner. His weakness is that he runs too high. He is also a "read" runner. The latter thing is good most of the time, but not in short yardage situations.
--If I was the coach, I would put in Hunt in the short yardage and goal line situations. He runs a lot lower and is more decisive in his decisions.
--I think the Browns are in a great situation at RB. Thanks Dorsey. You might not have dressed the part, but you sure knew how to acquire talent! I agree 100% with all those points. I don't understand why Chubb isn't a better goal line/short yardage back. I think he is too cerebral a runner. Takes his time and is patient then takes off when the hole open. But on the goal line and in short yardage situations you need to just put your head down and crash into the pile. Hunt seems to do that well. Chubb doesn't. Just my supposition. I don't know the answer.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I think you nailed half of it. The other half is that he is an upright runner.
Love the dude. Just not a great short=yardage runner. That's okay. Hunt can fill that role.
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A few thoughts:
--I think Nick Chubb will be very good in a ZBS. I think he has that ability to put a foot in the ground and take off. That is what you want in your RB behind a ZBS OL.
--Nick Chubb is my favorite player on the team and I rarely have favorite players. He just seems like such a good dude.
--I do not think Chubb is a good short-yardage/goal line runner. His weakness is that he runs too high. He is also a "read" runner. The latter thing is good most of the time, but not in short yardage situations.
--If I was the coach, I would put in Hunt in the short yardage and goal line situations. He runs a lot lower and is more decisive in his decisions.
--I think the Browns are in a great situation at RB. Thanks Dorsey. You might not have dressed the part, but you sure knew how to acquire talent! Some excellent points. Chubb no doubt is a read runner. He waits, finds his opening, then goes for it. His vision is phenomenal. He is going full speed but it is like he sees things playing out in slow motion. I also agree on short yardage and goal line situations. He isn't the best at simply hitting the designed hole for the above mentioned reasons. Just a general impression, but it seems like Chubbs TDs are from 10 yards and out. Things close up once at the 10 Not much to read in that area. I agree, Hunt due to his lower center of gravity is a better option for hitting it straight in to the line. Take a look at one of the UDFA's we sighed. Benny LeMay. I think the kid is 5'8" and 225. Pretty stout kid. He played at Charlotte. Will Healy is the head coach. Will and my son played football and baseball together. Will Healy. He is going places in the coaching world. Started as a asst. coach here in Chattanooga. Took the head job at Austin Peay. 2 wins in 4 years, Will took them to 8-4 his first year. Yep, Will is on his way to the SEC for sure. Sorry for the tangent. Benny could become a pretty solid goal line guy. You will remember, he reminds me of that old Baltimore Colts runner Don Knottingham. The human bowling ball.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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