DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Evaluating John Dorsey as CLE GM

Draft 2019

Rd 1 - Nobody
Part of the OBJ/Vernon acquisition. This had both #1pick player and salary cap implications. The value depends on what happens with OBJ/Vernon in 2020. I think Vernon will be released due to cap hit...OBJ could become an astronaut. Who knows?

Rd 2 - G Williams
What's not to like? I think his falling to Rd 2 could not have been predicted by many fans. I think he was 'forced' to start when Mitchell would have been a better option. Injury and goofy scheme did him no favors. Excellent value here.

Rd 3 - Takitaki
Who knows? I like the guy...but he feels more like a 5th Rder than a 3rd. That's two years in a row where we got 5th Rd production from 3rd Rd picks. I recollect that he was a 'bone' thrown to Wolf who gushed over the guy.

Rd 4 - S Redwine
I personally like the guy...he's not afraid. He has a lot to learn, but good value in Rd 4.

Rd 5 - M Wilson & Siebert

The Wilson pick is classic for Rd5 - as was Avery last year. Good potential...football player. He was forced into action way to early due to Kirksey being injured, Taktaki not ready and Adarious Taylor sucking.

Siebert. He's a kicker. I think he'll be fine. Not outrageous in the 5th Rd. It's too bad the Gonzales saga played out like it did which appears to have forced our hand here.

Rd 6 - D Forbes

Why not? Excellent potential here. Classic 6th Rd flyer. Well done.

Rd - 7
It's the 7th Rd. Flyer on a guy who dropped down due to injury...and a CB...can never have enough CBs or pass rushers.

I'll put the Scottish Hammer in here too - even though he was an UDFA. Very good pick up here...and for free even.

This too has the makings of a pretty good draft. Some guys need to step-up and the trade of the #1 pick needs to return some value...but it's an easy draft to like.

JD managed the draft pretty well even with the Corbett bust. There are only a few picks I'd like to have 'back' in hindsight...but that could be said for any GM.

In the end, it's hard to be critical of JD for the two drafts under his watch.

It seems the man responsible for Patrick Mahomes landing in KC is Brett Veach, the guy who moved up to the GM role after Dorsey was canned. Dorsey just doesn't mind taking the credit.

Here's a good read on the story behind KC drafting Mahomes...

The inside story of how Patrick Mahomes landed with the Chiefs

I like Mack Wilson a lot. I don't understand why he gets so much hate sometimes. He's raw, but he didn't suck. He had a fantastic preseason and I thought we could have done a lot worse than him.

Mack Wilson was rated as one of the worst linebackers in football by PFF.

I think he flashed at times and is still very raw. Saw more bad than good but I think there is an upward trajectory on him.

I was just pointing out why get might get hate.

I don't know if Mack Wilson is good or bad. I do know that he was a rookie fifth round pick that was forced into playing time because Christian Kirksey got hurt. I would expect a big jump going into his second season.

Clearing up some disinformation with your post.

C. Thomas was not a bone to Highsmith ... He was an Andrew Berry selection.

To assume that we drafted him to appease an alumnus is just plane laughable.

Thank you for the correction. FWIW, I'm not suggesting that it is a bad thing for a GM to allow a fellow FO to pine for a particular "known-to-him" player after the 2nd Rd. I got the story right, but missed the FO who was in favor.

From what I've read and videos I've watched, he got lost in run support a lot...really, really a lot. But so did Ogunjobi (in particular) and too many other guys took their turn too.

That said, I think the plan for him was to play STs and develop for at least a year...not to be a starter out of the gate.

I think that was a good pick...even of he becomes noting but a backup and ST demon.

I like his range, his athleticism, and he looks like he's got a pretty high motor.

I think the biggest thing that could hold him back is that being in that 5th Rd range, he could easily fall victim to the "he's not my guy" thing under a new coach.

There are 22 starters on the team. I'd say 15 or so are not on the bubble. Everybody else is or might be. That's just how it goes with a coaching/GM change.

The positive is Dorsey did do a very good job of upgrading the roster. We may not see as much roster purge as one might normally see.

The bottom 20 guys always change. It will be interesting to see how much change takes place with the middle 20 players.

Dorsey also had a boatload of draft picks to work with that allowed him to bring in a bunch of guys. Now? Not so much.

He should have stood in college another year .. physically he’s not NFL ready yet ..

He needs to put some weight/muscle on and learn how to shed blocks ...

He’s got mad upside ... he has athleticism u can’t teach ...

If he stood in school like he should have he may have neen a 1st round pick ...

This is egregious. I feel attacked.

I agree. He reaped the fruit from the pervious bunch, but that still doesn't change the results. He carried out the plan.

I was going to say something similar, but that was bordering on the Sashi/Dorsey crap and I didn't want to go there. That is over now. We should know who our coach is Sunday morning. Lot's the read on Sunday. The GM should only be a few days behind. I think the short list at GM will boil down to 2-3 people.

My only point was that it's easier to turn over the whole roster when you have a ton of picks. Our new coach won't have that option.

and its debatable he did more than average job upgrading talent given how much he had to work with. He whiffed hard on quite a few picks and handed out some dumb contracts.

I assume you are talking about Mack. Correct?

If so, I agree. I don't know if he would have been a 1st round pick, but he would have been no worse than a 2nd round pick. Much better than the 5th or 6th round where he was selected.

But, we don't know some of these kids situations. Money talks. If they come from little, 5th round money can really help a family. A lot of work goes in to it, but being any draft pick is a lotto win for most of these guys. A few $million sounds like a lifetime of ease

Saben said he needed to come back. When your coach is making 4-5-6 mil a year, that sounds petty, but Nick did a lot of waiting himself. In coaching any sport, you don't make much money when you are 24 years old kicking around as a grad assistant at some college or kicking around in baseball as bullpen coach for the Hudson Valley Renegades.

I can see the defensive roster being the victim of another scheme change. That, and many of our "keepers" on D should probably be able to make a switch. Feel free to correct me here.

On offense, I think we're much more locked in. We should be sticking to an offensive scheme that's same or as similar as possible to 2018 (this past season proves that). I don't see us being able to make radical changes. Even the O-line, which needs personnel upgrade anyway, can't be turned over in one offseason.

Mack was a steal, yes maybe a year early, but he looks the part and got much needed playing time this year

Which happens to every GM.

In addition to his not working well with other, I recall also hearing that handing out overly-generous contracts was also a known weakness with Dorsey before he joined the Browns. A year or so after he left the Chiefs they were struggling a little bit with the cap. That seemed to carry forward with his FA signings here, which I found really curious/interesting. He seemed to be a very shrewd negotiator when dealing with other FOs, but then was overly generous with players. Kinda weird, if you ask me.

Agreed. I wouldn't get too caught up on the 4-3/3-4 thing (not you specifically, everyone).

Our defense could have a lot of turnover because a bunch of guys are out of contract (Joe Schobert, Damarious Randall, Eric Murray, Juston Burris) or we can move on from them and save cap space (Christian Kirksey, Olivier Vernon, T.J. Carrie, Terrance Mitchell, Morgan Burnett, and more).

I only see a few locks on defense. Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, and Greedy Williams.

The problem I have with JD and the Draft is picks like Corbett.. The guy is going to play Left Guard in the NFL , Period . He is not a Tackle in anyway shape or Form .. Dorsey really believed he was going to transform the kid .. Dumb . He isn't even a Right guard ..

C.Thomas was another reach at the " TOP " of the third . Rotational DE at best . Crap value pick.

Callaway , another John is the sharpest tack in the pack pick.. My Son is a Fl. Grad. and football nut job ( just like his old man ) Couldn't believe Dorsey would risk a FOURTH on him..

Avery is a guy I think Coaching staff's are missing the boat on . Playing him out of position.

Would Garrett move to outside LB? That's a risk. Otherwise, our better players would basically be doing the same thing regardless of scheme (Ward, Greedy, Randall), and the rest would be allowed to leave in FA (Schobert).

Q: how many RT or LT can play on either side?

Certainly the majority can not make that transition.

But when a Guy who has played on the Left his whole life can't make the switch to RG he is considered a bust. Okay then.

I know he was in competition for a tackle spot during camp, but I never really took that seriously. I don't know what the story was there, but he was drafted to take over for Tretter, and then when Zeitler was traded he would also be able to man that spot. I don't recall him being considered for tackle at the time he was drafted.

I don't know, it's two different body types.


To me your tackles need to be nimble with longer arms. Guards, more like bouncers. Thick, strong, and get mad if hit.

The switch from LT to RT and vice versa is spoken-of as if it's like changing underwear...it clearly is not.

When an OL is taken with the 1st pick in the 2nd Rd and he gets traded after about 1.5 years...he is considered a bust...or maybe a bust pick.

The 1st, 2nd is like gold. You get all night to think about it and suitors have a night to court you. JD botched that...it happens.

I'm really curious if he turns into another Cam Erving. Erving is terrible, but he's still in the league and starting for a team that should go deep in the playoffs.

Don't get caught up with positions. Myles Garrett is a pass rusher. If someone tries to make him something else then they are doing it wrong.

John Greco was just on the radio the other day talking about it. He said its harder to do than most will ever know. He equated it to being right handed, and someone giving you a pen and saying "now sign your name perfectly with your left hand".

Some guys are ambidextrous, and can do it. Most cannot.

AND not a cornerback. Just turn him loose to wear his guy out. And the other five or so it ought to take to handle him.

General response .. Corbett is a Left Guard ... I watched him closely in preseason ( Bitonio at tackle ) he really adjusted nicely and ended up doing very good job.. He is going to play LG. for someone and do a nice job..

My problem is drafting him at like 32 and believing he would play tackle in the NFL. I don't think any draftniks had him at tackle .. going from left to right is chore ..

Corbett is the Rams starting Left Guard.

Dorsey Drafted Baker and hired Kitchens, those were by far his worst moves.

Failing to bench Baker and fire Kitchens by this year bye got him fired and us without playoff chances.

I like Dorsey, but I think this super mega star GM and John Doe HC will never work, and it was stupid to think it could work.

It can work with a star HC and a low profile GM,but never the opposite.

I think it could have worked .. If Dorsey had taken control of Kitchens. Dorsey needed to do what many GMs of other teams have done when a Head Coach refused to let an Offensive Coordinator call plays, called the Head Coach in and say, "This is not working, Let the person who designed the offense call the plays." That is where Dorsey messed up with Kitchens. He did not stay the "Superstar GM." He allowed Kitchen to FUBAR the offense and get both of them fired.

I'm not sure if this has already been stated, but I think one of the reasons Dorsey is no longer here (among a handful of others) is that Haslam has had his sights set on Josh McDaniels for awhile now. I believe that the backchannnels of communication have been churning with the McDaniels' camp for a bit and I think it was conveyed to Haslam that Dorsey would be a road block to him accepting the HC job and moving to Cleveland (from early rumors). Haslem made an offer to Dorsey that he knew Dorsey would not accept and he was subsequently left packing his things.

I've felt all along the the McDaniels hire was a Jimmy Haslem desire that he really wanted to land....the big name hire. I have no clue how other parties feel about Josh that are part of the hiring process. Many reports have indicated that the team has been chatting with McDaniels for quite a bit and today might just be part of the pagentry to ultimately land him.

I think there are only a few things that could blow this all up.

1. Other interviewees have completely shocked Haslam and McDaniels has some catching up to do.
2. McDaniels absolutely bombs.(probably not going to happen)
3. Jimmy is set on who he wants to replace Dorsey with as a GM and McDaniels doesn't feel comfortable going into the situation without his own hand-picked guy.

It will be interesting to see if there will be any collateral damage/moves as a result of any candidate being announced either today or tomorrow, namely DePodesta.

j/c


If Dorsey was as great as some think he was I wonder why no one is beating down the door to hire him.

I'd actually venture to guess that because Dorsey was so bad as GM, that he'll never hold another GM position in the NFL again.

I'm a Dorsey skeptic as much as anyone on here but I think most teams have their GMs already in place and I bet Dorsey doesn't want to take a demotion as a scout or equivalent title. Plus, like most GMs and coaches of the Browns, Dorsey will be paid not to work for the next couple of years.

This was the argument that Sashi haters made just after being fired, and it wasn't a good one, IMO.

I do think he'll get a job sooner rather than later but I, too, wonder if it will be a GM role. There is a large enough sample size about his issues with poor financial management, ego, and a lack of organizational leadership to concern teams. That and I think the guy came across as a rather dense person.