DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Evaluating John Dorsey as CLE GM

Yes, I was being facetious in that regard.


However, my latter comment I was not. Dorsey wasn't very good. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that holds that opinion.

If Haslam has wanted to bring in McDaniels for a while, when did this start ? Could Dorsey have stopped it by assisting Freddie ? Would forcing Freddie to use Monken's game plans, or allowing Monken to call plays, say.. after the Denver game, have changed our fortunes on the field ? I'm not saying all would have been great, and the Browns would have made the Playoffs, but could that change of perspective kept both Freddie and Dorsey's jobs ? I know hindsight is 20/20, but with all the criticism of play calling, it is a speculation worth discussing. Could Dorsey have changed things by taking control at that point and telling Freddie, "Things are not working with your play calling, let the offensive coordinator call the plays."

JC

I think JD’s failures were the hiring of FK (whether he truly believed in him or just wanted to control the coach) and his inability to work with people in the FO

Dorsey still looks really bad in this scenario. Dorsey flexed his muscle to hire Freddie, specifically, because of his play calling "magic" from the previous year. Taking it away that soon says, "I've already messed up this hire."

I'd say identifying a mistake and being willing to address it is a much better character trait to have than to dig your heels in and double down on a mistake. It might have been a bad look - but it would have been the right thing to do = and doing the right thing given any set of circumstances is really want the people who report to you to try to do.

Typically, yes that is a good trait. However, we saw just last year what a disaster it is when you start dictating how your HC can run his team. In this instance, Dorsey flexed his muscle to hire Freddie and pulling the play calling duties so suddenly, would demonstrate a lack of faith and support and a bit of a panic move.

It would be a bad look on Dorsey, not some admirable quality.

I think you do what is best for the team, or lose your job. Dorsey lost his job ...

makes you wonder if Freddie was just like... trade him. I won't play him. vs he sucks (to all of the players Dorsey traded)

much like he did hollywood.

I don't think Freddie had ANY say in anything that went on with the roster. I believe that was 100% John.

but... he can refuse to play those players.

Freddie showed many times over the course of the season that if he didn't like someone... he wouldn't play them.

Something tells me he would walk into Dorsey's office and be like... trade them. I won't play them.

That would make sense if Freddie had ANY credibility. he didn't.

1. Its widely been reported from KC to Clevealnd that John was very headstrong. He would not allow a rookie HC demand anything about the roster.

Heck, the dude wouldn't let the OWNER take away his say on the roster, why would he let a rookie HC, who 0 other teams would have hired, come into his office and demand things. Just doenst add up.

2. We watched as Dorsey traded Hyde beceause Haley and Hue wouldn't play Chubb. Dorsey is not going to let a coach of Freddies stature demand anything.

very, very good points

Just a comment here folks....and this isn't directed at willie, it is a problem all over the board.

How about we copy the lines we are going to reply to rather than simply quote the entire chain of comments in the thread.

Sure, it is a little more work, but it make the board more readable.

If people don't know how to do that, we can have a class.

Heck...here is is.

Copy and paste what is it you are commenting on....everybody knows how to do that.

[] type quote between the brackets. then paste what you just copied.

then [/quote...another ] after quote

Bingo Bamo...a much cleaner board.

i like to read the entire string so I can remember what the hell we were just talking about

IMO John Dorsey did some good, positive things while he was here but it seems to me he had some serious character flaws. Those flaws to me would limit his success in the long run and start to cause problems. I imagine that's what led to his firing in KC and again here.

I typically will try to do that, but if its a longer conversation, I will try to get the full context of the topic, or if I am replying to an older post, will include all of it as a refresher.

I typically quote the whole thing because I'm lazy.

:-p

I don't get why you need to repeat something you just read, but...

Dorsey did some good things, and he did some bad things. IMO, he attempted to swing for the fences, and struck out. OBJ, Vernon, FK, all splash plays which could make him look really great, or ..... Not. Ditching guys like Fells for "his guy" Harris was a bad move. Keeping Corbett, and then relying on him for too long, another bad move, and like many, driven by Ego and me me me, rather than simply a bad evaluation. Making John Dorsey look good was part of the evaluation. Making the Browns a good team was secondary.

The hiring of FK, was the cherry on top, and again, this decision was made to allow JD's ego more control, not to make the Browns a good team. Freddy was not ready and JD was certainly in position to know this. Not just a bad move, but a really stupid one, and one made so the full Dorse could maintain full control.

Do you people realize that in the space of two seasons, we managed to have not only the worst HC in NFL history, but a second one who was possibly even Worse?? Holy Bejeezus Gawd.

As someone has pointed out, Corbett started at LG for the Rams and finished out the season at that position. Not sure what the Rams' roster/injury situation was, but Corbett is currently a starting guard.

John Dorsey was good. He did not deserve to be, nore should have have been fired. He's been the best GM, in terms of bringing in talent, that we've had since the return.

Dorsey has only made one mistake that I can see, when he traded Zeitler for Vernon, BAD move. Other than that, he brought in good FA's and drafted well. Now, was he perfect, hell no, but if you're waiting on perfection, you will be waiting a very long time and never see positive results.

I bet he goes on to help another team, and I would not be surprised if that team gets to the Super Bowl before the Browns ever do, IF they ever do.

I agree the Zeitler trade was not good the way it turned out, but you forgot his biggest mistake, the one that got him removed, the hiring of Freddie Kitchens ...

So the Browns where going to sit Bitionio to start Corbett ? I keep trying tell folks Corbett is a LEFT guard " period " .. I guess Freddie could have tried to move Bitonio to the right , yea that works ! Willing to bet that Corbett plays LEFT his whole career .. Round beg , round hole ..

John Dorsey was the best GM we have had since the return and it isn't even close. He brought more talent to this team in two years' time than the rest of them did put together. Firing him was the stupidest thing Haslam has done since he bought the team and that is saying something.

Some of you seem to forget just how BAD the former GM's have been here in Cleveland. Dorsey wasn't perfect, no GM is. But he was MILES better than anyone else this team hired. I will miss him greatly when our next GM turns out to be a complete failure. Refuses to ever spend in FA or make any trades to get us some players.

I don't agree with your opinion.

I actually wish we still had Savage.

How soon is too soon for a Tom Heckert joke?

Heckert is deceased now, so probably shouldn't talk about him.

So still too soon?

I think so .. yep.

Haslam didn't fire him. It was a mutually agree split.

He did do a good job but I wouldn't say excellent. He had a lot of room to deal and make selections.

I wish he could have stayed, but HE is the one who made the enormous blunder of hiring Freddie to coach what could have been a playoff caliber team look like a bunch of flap-lipped foot sniffers.

at being so naive .... naaa ... your not naive ....

at U being so protective of the thief that u support the spin it was a mutual split ...

You mean that you don't take a corporate PR statement as fact?

You are being disingenuous Peen ...

They where both equally to blame for hiring Freddie.

Well then, here's hoping we get another Farmer. You guys will LOVE that. lol

I disagree. That was Dorseys hire.

Think back to the introductory press conference. Jimmy and Dee were sitting in the crowd. They weren't up on stage smiling and gushing.

They let their football guy pick his guy, so I suppose in a way, you are right. Somebody should have stepped in and said, "no, we can do better than that".

That's his story and he's sticking to it. The Haslams sign the checks and are at the top of the food chain here. But they're very wealthy and from Tennessee, so somebody has to protect them.

Dorsey right now is water under the bridge and 5 miles downstream.

And last year they let John make the call. Had the Haslams made the call, they would have no real grounds to offer John a reduced role. They reduced his ability to hire the next coach.

The coach was the problem last season, not the players Dorsey brought in