DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Hire Kevin Stefanski

That's not what I meant.

Freddie works out the gameplan with input from Monken. Freddie gets a call into the owner's office on Friday afternoon, and he (or someone from the analytics staff) pulls out a red marker, and takes plays off the sheet, and adds plays from previous weeks that they think would do well, even without the team practicing them.

Could anyone put it past Haslam?

It seems as though this is a new setup. I don't think Dorsey would have let something like that occur. I think it was pretty clear Kitchens was in over his head. Also, my guess is that Todd Monken would have divulged the Haslam details if given the chance.

New guy here. Not sure if this has been said, 8 pages is a lot to go through. Hate to bring up a rival, but does anyone remember where Tomlin came from? He was a defensive position coach in college and Tampa. He had ONE season as a DC in (of all places) MN, before being hired by Pittsburgh. We’re killing Stefanski, but we have no frickin clue how this is going to play out. Tomlin has 1 SB and an overall successful run.

I hate ownership as much as everyone else, but ffs, let’s see what happens.

Why Kevin Stefanski? Browns see him as first answer to fixing institutional dysfunction of the Jimmy Haslam era

Charles RobinsonNFL columnist
Yahoo SportsJanuary 13, 2020, 12:54 AM EST

Under team owner Jimmy Haslam, there have always been turf wars inside the Cleveland Browns. Some were quiet and conniving. Others were loud and ham-handed. Some took place with the office door closed. Others were broadcast on HBO for the world to see. For the balance of Haslam’s reign, time has always created a common thread among warring parties.

Eventually, nearly everyone would lose — on the field and off. And in hindsight, the roadmap to failure couldn’t have been more obvious if it had been drawn on the back of a pink slip.

For the Browns, this has turned the Haslam era into a layer cake of failed regimes. From the beginnings of Joe Banner, Mike Lombardi and Rob Chudzinski, right into the most recent endings of Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens and John Dorsey. Smashed in between, NFL coaching and executive careers were often left to be rebooted or fundamentally changed forever. Whether it was Jackson, Alec Scheiner, Ray Farmer, Mike Pettine, Todd Haley or a litany of others in the margins of a perpetual fallout zone.

We can talk about the failures forever, clucking our tongues at the factionalism that has been the most consistent part of the Cleveland Browns. Or we can address the two fundamental questions that matter when looking forward:

Has Browns ownership learned anything during this brutal process of warring and attrition?

And …

If it has, can it actually apply the lessons it has purchased with millions of severance dollars and incalculable embarrassment?

The answer to this — whether Browns fans like it or not — is Kevin Stefanski.

Browns were a disorganized organization
Note that I didn’t say Stefanski was the right answer, or even a good answer. But make no mistake, the new Browns coach is the beginning of a different answer.

For the first time since Haslam took over this franchise, he’s trying to engineer a structure where the head coach, general manager and chief strategist are not only on the same page, but are carrying the same book and speaking the same kind of football language. That’s the end goal in ultimately pursuing a trio of Stefanski, DePodesta and (if it actually comes to fruition) general manager Andrew Berry. To take three Ivy League minds who each embrace analytics and put them into a rowing crew together. All pulling in the same direction. All unified together and, if need be, challenging and debating Haslam as a unit rather than individual shards of opinion.

That is what this hire is about: Locking the braintrust together rather than incentivizing rivalry.

As one source framed it during the coaching search: “Jimmy has seen enough to know it hasn’t worked for him doing it the other way. John [Dorsey] and Paul [DePodesta] didn’t see eye-to-eye on things, but the bigger problem is they didn’t truly believe in each other. I think that’s what Jimmy is looking for — getting everyone on the same page [in the fundamentals], but also having confidence in each other as individuals to execute.”

It certainly wasn’t that way with the structure of the last regime. And there will be no shortage of gory details and illustrations to drive that point home — particularly with yet another wave of fired personnel set into the wind. But one story sums up all of Haslam’s past failures the best. It was recounted by sources with direct knowledge of the details.

Dialing back to the early days of Dorsey’s arrival as general manager, then-coach Hue Jackson had started a dialogue with Dorsey about the viability of DePodesta’s role in the organization. Jackson felt that he and Dorsey were aligned when it came to how they wanted to build a team, what the structure should look like and, most important, who should be involved in showcasing that vision to Haslam.

To Jackson, it was simple: With Sashi Brown out of the organization, he and Dorsey should cement their places in the structure and express to Haslam that DePodesta wasn’t necessary in the process. The way Jackson figured it, he and Dorsey and the rest of the football side of the operation were the right pieces to guide the franchise forward. Dorsey agreed and through a series of conversations, it was relayed to Haslam that DePodesta should either have his role minimized or move on from the franchise.

In the end, Haslam disagreed. And he reacted by delivering an individual message to all the top executives before camp kicked off: Everyone was valued and everyone was going to have to find a way to work together. As part of his delivery with some of those involved, Haslam vowed to get the leadership from the football side and analytics side communicating regularly. His message? He wanted to build a shared vision between Dorsey, Jackson, DePodesta and everyone else who filled out their respective cliques.

Ultimately, it failed. Jackson’s tenure began unraveling in a fractious relationship with offensive coordinator Todd Haley. And in turn, that put pressure on Jackson’s relationship with Dorsey and Haslam — ending in Jackson’s firing, which eventually opened the door for Kitchens … and the 2019 disaster … and left Dorsey just as vulnerable as Jackson when it came to the future of the franchise and how DePodesta would factor in it.

All of that was the preamble to Dorsey eventually losing his place in the organization. It was sped up by Kitchens being an unmitigated disaster at times, including a lack of accountability on the roster and friction between not only coaches, but players and coaches. And finally, when it appeared DePodesta could leave the Browns this offseason, it stimulated Haslam to take stock of the crumbling empire he had created. By the last few weeks of the season, rumors about the Browns began to swirl: Kitchens might be fired, DePodesta might leave, Dorsey might not be safe. And somewhere in that mess, Haslam had to make some choices about what he wanted.

This is where the two questions about Haslam becomes key again: What did ownership learn, and how can it apply those lessons?

Why Josh McDaniels wasn’t going to work
I don’t know if Haslam will ever come out and detail his own mistakes, but there are plenty of people who have come out of the Browns who will do it for him. And first and foremost, many of them say the same thing: Rather than building his structure through an ideology — where the mission shapes the hiring process — Haslam has often tried to cluster different people around an ideology, hoping that their intelligence and experience would be common bonds bringing them together.

Unfortunately, that hasn’t worked. Whether it has been corrupted by egos, power grabs, impatience or simply Haslam being swayed by the last voice to exit his office — the vision has splintered. And over time, the ideology has been a matter of which faction you belonged to, or who you viewed as your direct leader, or simply whatever helped you survive through the chaos.

That’s a large part of the reason Kevin Stefanski is the guy in Cleveland now. He fits with DePodesta. And the general manager hire will fit, too — presuming it’s Berry or someone earmarked by Stefanski and DePodesta. Think of the trio as the Three Musketeers, locked in every coming battle together, protecting each other’s backs and carrying out their mission arm-in-arm. A three-man block that will not only execute together, but also be there in support of each other through all of Haslam’s involvement.

None of this is to say Josh McDaniels couldn’t have had his own version of this in Cleveland. But it absolutely would have been more complicated, necessitating not only that DePodesta was out of the organization for good (much like Jackson and Dorsey wanted), but that everything would be built and streamlined through McDaniels. There’s no telling how that would have worked with Haslam being as involved as he is. And there’s no telling what other land mines might have existed that are definitely there but completely unseeable right now.

The simple truth of this is that Haslam knows DePodesta. He trusts DePodesta. And he believes in DePodesta. He also knows Berry and has a reasonable idea of how the organization was prepared to function with Stefanski. One year later, with Dorsey out of the franchise, that vision has even less complication.

Time will tell if all of this is the right move. Maybe failure will leave it to break apart in warring voices. Maybe the common denominator of corruption in the system will always be Haslam. But the Browns can’t know for sure until they try something different. And this is that chance, plain and simple.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/browns-stefanski-haslam-hiring-different-055423768.html

I don't think anyone is saying analytics are bad and shouldn't be used, but I also don't believe that in any of the cases you cited (Pats, Ravens, Eagles) does the coach answer to or work for the analytics people. Ernie Adams works for Belichick, Daniel Stern works for John Harbaugh, and I believe whoever is the Eagles' stats guy works for Doug Pederson.

Kevin Stefanski reports to analytics people for approval of his game plans. He works for them.

Is there any reason to believe that DePodesta will not wield similar power over the GM with regards to the draft and FA?

That’s not the issue. The issue is that time and time again, we’ve had the resources and personnel to effectively use it, but when it’s crunch time, he’s stepped in and hone the other direction.

I can’t be the only one who can see us having a analytical dream team, only for badlands to get frustrated after a while and go back to “football” guys.

How many coaches *couldve* been successful here if he wasn’t constantly getting in the way?

I think we will really like Kevin Stefanski. My questions arise about whether he or we end up liking how the entire operation runs. I've seen NOTHING that says Depodesta meddles or that he thirsts for power. Heck, he'd rather be out west apparently.But who knows. Hopefully we have harmony in the FO with enough free thinking to keep things even keeled.

We have been consistent. That's the problem.

That is not my 'take' at all. My understanding is that this will be a collaborative effort between equal, non-reporting parties to incorporate analytics into the game plans. There is obvious benefit to this and probably long overdue. I don't see any power grab by Depo, rather making full use of his services...

I would expect (hope? that his involvement is simply to ensure that the 'plan', or process, stays on track...

I've said this a couple times in 'defense' of Haslam. Chud being let go was understandable - new owners coming in wanting a fresh start and Chud's team 100% quit on him. Petine and Farmer had to go due to the infighting - that was all on Jimmy and the set up he employed and the way he undermined everyone (per detailed article) ... Hue and Freddie .... anyone really want to claim they should have had more time?

Gotta hope Jimmy and Depo got it right. Have to hope that there is no undermining of confidence because people have Jimmy's ear ... and maybe/hopefully the Monday meeting with Jimmy is to avoid different versions of events finding their way to his ears? Got to hope that this is way different than Petine and Farmer otherwise we will be repeating this in 24 months. . . . KS not my first or second or third choice but I will absolutely get behind him and let him prove me wrong.

If we had something even remotely close to this in place last season, at least 2of the top 3 reasons Freddie got canned wouldn't have happened (Warren Sharp tweets).

I don't like Haslam in these meetings. My hope is that he's there only at first to make sure these meetings get off the ground and he can step back once they get rolling.

OK here's what we really know at this point.
Dorsey and Kitchens are out.
Chief Strategy Officer is Paul DePodesta,
Kevin Stefanski is the HC and the Haslam's own it.
All the rest is smoke and personal agenda, both in 'Social Media' and reporting.
Good luck to Kevin and I hope you stick!

For Cleveland Browns new coach Kevin Stefanski, the biggest challenge is leadership

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01..._source=twitter

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Unlike many Browns fans and members of the media, I’m intrigued by an analytics approach to building a football team. That’s why I have some optimism about Kevin Stefanski being named the Browns new head coach.

The disclaimer is the Browns can’t return to the “blow up the team and rebuild it” model. That’s what they did with analytics in 2016-17 under former Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown.

Brown’s long-term plan was to use some of his salary cap room for free agents and draft picks to select a QB in 2018, much like former GM John Dorsey did when he took over the front office.

But let’s leave an in-depth discussion about football analytics and the Browns for another time.

Rather, it’s important to look beyond the numbers to the challenge facing Stefanski, whose last job was as Minnesota’s offensive coordinator.

AN EMBARRASSING SEASON

The team is in desperate need of a leader.

The 2019 Browns too often were an embarrassment because of their lack of discipline, excessive penalties and downright disrespect between some of the players and former coach Freddie Kitchens.

When the Browns studied Stefanski as a QB coach and later offensive coordinator, their research showed Case Keenum and Kirk Cousins had their best seasons when connected to Stefanski.

The idea is that Stefanski will have a positive impact on Browns QB Baker Mayfield, who regressed last season after the strong rookie year in 2018.

Given Stefanski’s track record, I’m reasonably confident Stefanski will help Mayfield.

THE REAL CHALLENGE

The risk with hiring any first-time head coach is the leadership question.

He doesn’t walk into the room and command the same immediate respect as Ron Rivera or Mike McCarthy, two veteran head coaches hired this month by other teams.

Those guys have a history of taking teams to the Super Bowl.

But many first-time head coaches have recently been successful: Sean McDermott (Bills), Sean McVay (Rams), Kyle Shanahan (49ers), Matt LaFleur (Packers), Doug Pederson (Eagles) and Mike Vrabel (Titans).

When it comes to leadership and the 37-year-old Stefanski, we really don’t know.

That’s not a criticism, it’s a fact, and it could have been written about that list of young coaches when they were hired.

This team has strong personalities such as Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Mayfield and others. Some of the sideline outbursts between Kitchens and his players were signs of a team longing for leadership.

Can Stefanski supply it?

Stefanski was a young assistant to former Vikings head coach Brad Childress in 2006. Many of the issues Childress faced as a head coach passed through Stefanski first. That gives him a different perspective than a guy who simply advanced as a position coach to offensive coordinator.

His father is Ed Stefanski, who has been an NBA executive. That should help him understand the GM/coach relationship because he grew up with the dynamic.

LET’S TRY IT AGAIN

Browns Owner Jimmy Haslam’s consistent theme in his last press conference was the need for “alignment" between the front office and coaching staff.

Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta ran the coaching search and the team settled on Stefanski, who was DePodesta’s choice a year ago and a runner-up to Kitchens.

Just as important as the selection of the coach is the new general manager. The Browns have to find a way to use their analytics system to perform better in the draft than it did during the Sashi Brown era.

To be fair to Brown, that front office trashed the first round by skipping Carson Wentz, trading down twice and picking Corey Coleman in 2016.

But second-round pick Emmanuel Ogbah (now with Kansas City) and third-rounder Carl Nassib (now with Tampa Bay) and fourth-rounder Joe Schobert (Browns) have become starters. Rashard Higgins also was in that draft.

In 2017, they picked Myles Garrett. I know, the coaching staff takes credit, but Brown made the final decision. Jabrill Peppers, David Njoku and Larry Ogunjobi also were in that draft. But they passed on QB DeShaun Watson.

THE OTHER BIG QUESTION

Be it Andrew Berry or whomever is the next GM, they need to find more talented players in the draft and free agency. That’s especially true on the offensive and defensive lines.

For Stefanski to be successful, the Browns have to hire the right scouts and player personnel people. Dorsey will be missed in this area.

They also need an experienced, big time defensive coordinator. They should retain Special Teams Coordinator Mike Priefer, who had that job in Minnesota when Stefanski was there.

Can this work for the Browns?

Yes, if Stefanski can grow as a leader and the right front office is assembled. Now it’s up to Haslam and DePodesta to make that happen.

I've never read that Stefanski or any coach has to run a game plan by DePodesta. I'm pretty certain that's an unwarranted worry.

Friday meetings and coach has to submit the plays to the analytics department.


Probably to supply the coach with data. Like... when you run this play on 3rd and 4 you have an 82% success rate. Etc

No they did not. Chud was fired because of Banner. Banner was the problem and not Chud...That was why Banner was fired...because they figured out he was the issue. But by that point...Chud was gone. In fact the Browns players were ticked that Chud didn't get another year.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...-browns-players

blah blah blah. Tired of hearing that. That means literally nothing. JM is the highest paid OC in the league for a reason. Bill and Co. did everything they can to get him back when he was going to take the Colts job.

Theres a reason for that.

What did the players say during their exit interviews with Haslam.

"we need leadership"

Who would come in a better leader, JM with 6 SB rings and has been groomed for the last 10 years, or a guy with 9 more games calling plays than Freddie?

I totally agree with you about the Monday meetings. Adding another meeting with Haslam can only be bad.

I'm coming around on the Friday meetings, though.

Vrabel also spent how many years playing the game under the best HC in football history.

Well the players didn't play for Chud on the field of play - I watched the games. They quit.

Absolutely. A more recent example of success is Matt LaFleur who has the Packers in the NFC Championship game after two straight years of sub-.500 football under McCarthy.

LaFleur only had one year of OC play calling duties with TEN under his belt prior to be hired by GB.

This is actually a very good point. Anyone willing to come into this franchise, with the history of OUR owner, and allow his future to be dictated by the decisions of that triumphed, well.....it makes me weary.

This is just so....Browns.

I mean you got a guy with 6 SB rings, from the area, that wants to coach here.

On the other hand, you got a guy with what 9 more games than Freddie calling an offense, with 1 year as an FT OC - who, in the biggest game of his career called a game that garnish 7 first downs and how many 3 and outs?

We just had Freddie, who couldn't get the ball to Odell and would not give Chubb the ball in key situations

we just hired a guy that couldn't get his best WR Diggs the ball in the biggest game of his career, and who gave their RB, the best player on the team 9 touches.

Browns "we gotta get this guy!"

I like McD just fine. I wanted to see him coach...period. Wasn't really willing to give him or anybody the title, "King of the Browns". Seems that's what he wanted or at least that's what we're told.

IMHO the Bronco's stint established that McDaniels isn't HC material...

No? Have you ever grown or matured after a 10 year period? Have you ever failed at something, only to learn from your mistakes and become a better individual?

There are a lot of coaches that failed in their first stint as HC, and then went on to have success. That's a flawed logic you are selling, along with others.

I think its hilarious, and I WANT EVERYONE TO READ AND THINK ABOUT THIS!!!!!

The downfall of Josh not being hired was that he wanted sweeping organizational changes. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED!!!!!!

This organization is a mess! We need sweeping changes from the top down in how we run this team!

Except the sweeping didn't include the ownership. Can't sweep away a stain...

"He’s more of the old-school style mixing in new-school tools on how to beat the opponent each and every week."

I like that. It wraps up a lot of what I believe in as far as leading a football team-- be tough and physical, but also smart and disciplined. Use data/analytics to help inform decisions. That doesn't take away from being tough and physical, or having good leadership qualities.

Also here's another thought. Say we have some diva who acts up and won't listen to what the coach says. Some want to put this on the coach. Here's another thought.. how about getting a new player.

Agreed, however the sweeping changes would have been IMO to have it setup like NE. The HC gets player say, roster control, and the owner sits back and enjoys the trophies. THAT is why Haslam IMO didn't hire him. Haslam is a control freak

J/C

Name that coach

limited experience
1 year as OC
Doesn't have his own offense, calls someones else's
Cant get the ball to his playmakers
offense looked like garbage in the biggest game of his career

Is this Freddie or Stafanski?

Its both.

Kenny Roda tweeted:

j/c

The problem with Haslam is that he has yet to figure out just how involved he needs to or should be. I think its also taken him too long to understand that in corporate America, the whole dog eat dog environment amongst your management may work, but with a football franchise where the distance between your GM and the product on the field is no further than the distance between the luxury suite and the 50yrd line, its much more important to have everyone in line.

Pit, I never got back to you about your post in regards to my claim that this organization has never been in alignment. My apologies. You posted the article with DePo and Hue post Draft talking about being in sync. I'm not dismissing it, but I'm only giving it the weight I would any other post Draft statement. There are only 2 statements a team gives: a) We got exactly who we were targeting or b) he was rated high on our boards.

I do believe that everyone believed they were on the same page. But I think by the time your HC is trying to work trades for QB's on his own, no one's reading the same book.

Personally I'm neutral on the Stefanski hire. I would have preferred an experienced HC like McCarthy or Rivera. What I do like about it though is that its DePo's recommendation and out of ALL the players in Berea over the last several years of this saga, he's the only one (and his people) who have been coming at this thing from an objective position. Their recommendations come with data. It doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically the correct answer, but they aren't biased with an ego, or a fear of someone else's ego.

DePo created a system. Stafanski is a system hire. Its not based on the recommendation of a homeless guy, it's not based on an owner trying to incorporate traits suitable to a different enterprise, it's not a hire of a GM trying to flex his muscles because for that moment what he wanted was more important than what the team needed.

He has 6 SB rings, everyone wants to say that its because of BB and Brady - yet BB and Brady have never won a SB without JM on the staff. It goes both ways. And you cant use "what is proven about Mcdaniels" when your trying to make a case for Stefanski - theres a lot more proven about JM than Stefanski.

There were reports yesterday that BB was calling the giants pushing Judge on them, because he didn't want McDaniels to get the job. He didn't want McDaniels leaving. Which is exactly why the pressure they put on JM was so strong when he was in the line for the Colts job. Bill values JM more than any Coordinator he has ever had. That is proven.

Good. So maybe he won't be dumb enough to roll as HC and OC?

And there it is.

Typically OC's call plays when they get hired as HC. They got the job for their offense - so don't like putting their fate in someone elses hands.

I would highly doubt if he doesn't call plays.