There is no way any coach is going to succeed with some knucklehead stats moron meddling in the coaches headset demanding certain plays be called. Playcalling is going to be influenced by a baseball manager...one that ruined the Dodgers mind you.
I have hammered this decision so far, but to be fair. . .
I dont think Depo is going to be involve in the actual play calling. I do think he will have input with his numbers on certain plays, and when and what times they would be useful to call, but I dont think hell have a headset on and telling the play caller (whomever that is) when and what to call. If that is the case though, this will fail faster than I thought.
it's KoB. Just let him be out in left field.
Last edited by oobernoober; 01/13/2003:39 PM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Advice point number one. If you get to a point where you could gain an advantage, early in the game, expect the Refs' to stall your drive or help the other teams drive to make sure you don't succeed.
A lot of the work is done and those areas on offense that looked less prepared and off-script under Freddie...those issues should be corrected with more proficient coaching and or replacing those who can't adjust.
My experience with learning plays and blocking assignments are best corrected through repetition. Run the same play again and again until all know their assignments on every play.
Who is to be blocked or who is to line up where or who is supposed to go in motion or what route a WR is supposed to run should be learned in practice so each players knows their assignment on game day.
I would expect a vastly improved offense. Those who are not able to learn, cut them or trade them.
You can't be dumb and expect to win in the NFL or at any level of football.
Time and time again, I watch old time football clips, and one thing is there, have 2-3 go to plays, you know you can make work. Be it Browns sweeps, or Steeler trap plays, whatever. Work those plays over and over. You have to be able to lean on bread and butter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Ditto... but, adding a single TE that runs, catches, and BLOCKS like Kittle would pay massive dividends to a revamped and improved OLine.
If that can be had in Free Agency, so much the better... then we can get this defense where it needs to be, which requires someone as fearsome as Garrett to be opposite of him.
I think we have that guy in Carleson.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Stefanski presented a detailed vision of how he will approach the head coaching job. He made it clear he was willing to yield to certain DePodesta standards, such as an analytics person with a head set and access to the coaching staff on game days, in addition to certain Haslam likes, such as hours-long, Monday-after, owner-coach meetings.
The Browns have made some peculiar moves in recent weeks. They’re reportedly intent on giving Paul DePodesta — a former Los Angeles Dodgers general manager and analytics whiz from “Moneyball” — more clout in playcalling, and that’s something that just wouldn’t work for McDaniels.
There is no way any coach is going to succeed with some knucklehead stats moron meddling in the coaches headset demanding certain plays be called. Playcalling is going to be influenced by a baseball manager...one that ruined the Dodgers mind you.
Add in Haslam increasing his meddling in the football operations by demanding hours long Monday meetings with the coach to go over his game plans and give his "expert" football opinions on what KS should do...you kidding me?
This dysfunction will probably be worse than what it was with Sashi Brown, add in Mr. Assistant 0-16/1-31 in Andrew Berry and well...you get where this is going.
this is the most dysfunctional thing I have ever seen or ehad out of the Browns and boy have i witnessed some dysfunction over the years...
everyone keeps using this same cantonrep article to try to make these damning statements
this is the third time I will add that the article doesn't claim any of the demands of analytics are real
instead the article says
"What follows is our belief about the elements of Stefanski’s interview Thursday and McDaniels’ interview Friday that left Stefanski as Haslam’s seventh head coach since he bought the team in 2012."
I am not going to compare Carlson to Kittle , but the kid caught my eye in training camp ( think I sent Purp a PM on him ).. Thought he showed some skill for UDFA from AN Ivey school ..Was hoping he would have moved from the Practice squad to game day much sooner in the season. Curious to see what the new regime thinks of him .. Watch him get cut before Camp. lol
I am not going to compare Carlson to Kittle , but the kid caught my eye in training camp ( think I sent Purp a PM on him ).. Thought he showed some skill for UDFA from AN Ivey school ..Was hoping he would have moved from the Practice squad to game day much sooner in the season. Curious to see what the new regime thinks of him .. Watch him get cut before Camp. lol
Personally, I think he s a solid number 3 TE. Nothing more as of yet. He's young enough to still be able to develop.
I am not going to compare Carlson to Kittle , but the kid caught my eye in training camp ( think I sent Purp a PM on him ).. Thought he showed some skill for UDFA from AN Ivey school ..Was hoping he would have moved from the Practice squad to game day much sooner in the season. Curious to see what the new regime thinks of him .. Watch him get cut before Camp. lol
There is no way any coach is going to succeed with some knucklehead stats moron meddling in the coaches headset demanding certain plays be called. Playcalling is going to be influenced by a baseball manager...one that ruined the Dodgers mind you.
I have hammered this decision so far, but to be fair. . .
I dont think Depo is going to be involve in the actual play calling. I do think he will have input with his numbers on certain plays, and when and what times they would be useful to call, but I dont think hell have a headset on and telling the play caller (whomever that is) when and what to call. If that is the case though, this will fail faster than I thought.
"“Was also told candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department on Friday and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan,”
So KS has to get his game plan together, then he has to turn that over to Haslam and Depo every Friday so they can go over his plan with their "expert eyes" and approve his weekly game plan for the game. There is no way in **** we can be sucessful this way.
Neither Depo nor Haslam have any damn clue what is a good and a bad plan for football. Furthermore, KS was required to allow a Depo crony to have a headset and access to the coaching staff on the sidelines during games to give input into play calling
It doesn't take a genius to figure out this is a total disaster.
Again its not that I dislike KS, I just know our ownership isn't going to give him the time he needs to be successful and they are already setting him up to fail with this BS.
Haslam values the advice of a baseball manager who uses Google over people with expereince drafting and coaching professional football with track records of success, its a problem.
I just hope KS gets paid well, he is going to need it.
"Football guy" is a nonsense term made up for NFL Gatekeepers.
There's only one problem with that. How many years did it take for BB to transition into a winning HC coach, or "football guy" as you put it?
If you look at his record in his first two years as an NFL HC, Haslam would have fired him if he were hired here. It's not that guys with an economics degree can't be "football guys". It's just that it doesn't happen in the microwave fashion that Haslam wants it to.
And let's stop pretending BB hadn't worked his way up for years in the coaching ranks. Football guys are developed for years. He wasn't working in the economics part of football all those years while developing his acumen.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan,”
OH MY GOD !! They have to discuss and communicate. Shocker. End of the freaking world.
It's been done here before, talked about here before. Tried here before. And I've read posts like this hundreds of times during those years.
Yet it's always turned out the same way. Which leads us right back to where we are. Square one.
pit...you saying you believe the team will regress, instead of improve under the numbers boys?
The first time the analytics boys were in charge of managing the Browns, they fired all the football scouts who disagreed with the numbers boys, concerning the evaluation of Carson Wentz.
Surely the numbers guys are man enough to admit that the "football guys" have the team playing better now.
If the Browns analytics management team begins to tear down the football structure and this team steps back from 6 or 7 wins in 2020, there will be a fan revolt.
Browns fans know we have talent and all the new guys need to do is add to the talent level in areas of need.
Stefanski presented a detailed vision of how he will approach the head coaching job. He made it clear he was willing to yield to certain DePodesta standards, such as an analytics person with a head set and access to the coaching staff on game days, in addition to certain Haslam likes, such as hours-long, Monday-after, owner-coach meetings.
The Browns have made some peculiar moves in recent weeks. They’re reportedly intent on giving Paul DePodesta — a former Los Angeles Dodgers general manager and analytics whiz from “Moneyball” — more clout in playcalling, and that’s something that just wouldn’t work for McDaniels.
There is no way any coach is going to succeed with some knucklehead stats moron meddling in the coaches headset demanding certain plays be called. Playcalling is going to be influenced by a baseball manager...one that ruined the Dodgers mind you.
Add in Haslam increasing his meddling in the football operations by demanding hours long Monday meetings with the coach to go over his game plans and give his "expert" football opinions on what KS should do...you kidding me?
This dysfunction will probably be worse than what it was with Sashi Brown, add in Mr. Assistant 0-16/1-31 in Andrew Berry and well...you get where this is going.
this is the most dysfunctional thing I have ever seen or ehad out of the Browns and boy have i witnessed some dysfunction over the years...
everyone keeps using this same cantonrep article to try to make these damning statements
this is the third time I will add that the article doesn't claim any of the demands of analytics are real
instead the article says
"What follows is our belief about the elements of Stefanski’s interview Thursday and McDaniels’ interview Friday that left Stefanski as Haslam’s seventh head coach since he bought the team in 2012."
Thank you. People keep freaking out about this article (including Chris Simms) and the whole thing is a riff, a conjecture piece by Doerschuk who clearly had a favorite and claims browns fans had a favorite as if that matters at all!? It’s not reporting, it’s an opinion piece. People gots to chill.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Ditto... but, adding a single TE that runs, catches, and BLOCKS like Kittle would pay massive dividends to a revamped and improved OLine.
If that can be had in Free Agency, so much the better... then we can get this defense where it needs to be, which requires someone as fearsome as Garrett to be opposite of him.
I think we have that guy in Carleson.
I wasn't impressed with Carlson's blocking. Especially in goal to go situations.
I did start looking at TEs in the draft a bit. So far I'm liking Asiasi from UCLA. The QB and OL were a mess, but I liked what I saw from him.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
NO ONE...NO ONE, expects the Browns to regress this year.
I don't give a damn who takes credit for getting the Browns in the playoffs in 2020, but failure to do so is going to be one helluva shock to every Browns.
The table is set, the weakness are obvious and now all that has to happen is improve upon the weaknesses.
...OR ARE SOME LOOKING FOR REASONS TO JUSTIFY A REGRESSION IN 2020?
NO ONE...NO ONE, expects the Browns to regress this year.
Regressing two years in a row would be a tough pill to swallow.
We had a terrible schedule in 2019. On paper, our schedule appears to be easier for 2020. We'll see.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
NO ONE...NO ONE, expects the Browns to regress this year.
Regressing two years in a row would be a tough pill to swallow.
Going from 3 - 13 BS (before Sashi) to 1-15 in Sashi’s 1st year to 0 - 16 in his last year prepared us well for regressing even when year to year regression was ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE ....
NO ONE...NO ONE, expects the Browns to regress this year.
I don't give a damn who takes credit for getting the Browns in the playoffs in 2020, but failure to do so is going to be one helluva shock to every Browns.
The table is set, the weakness are obvious and now all that has to happen is improve upon the weaknesses.
...OR ARE SOME LOOKING FOR REASONS TO JUSTIFY A REGRESSION IN 2020?
No excuses, just win!
I agree. I don't know that it is playoffs or bust but 9 wins should be attainable.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Going from 3 - 13 BS (before Sashi) to 1-15 in Sashi’s 1st year to 0 - 16 in his last year prepared us well for regressing even when year to year regression was ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE ....
All it took was for Hue to say "hold my beer".
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan,”
OH MY GOD !! They have to discuss and communicate. Shocker. End of the freaking world.
It's been done here before, talked about here before. Tried here before. And I've read posts like this hundreds of times during those years.
Yet it's always turned out the same way. Which leads us right back to where we are. Square one.
pit...you saying you believe the team will regress, instead of improve under the numbers boys?
I won't address the rest of your post, but this part I will.
I have actually never indicated that at all. I was speaking purely about the fact that Haslam has tried to use this structure before. Where people at the top have an equal say and everyone reports to him. Some people can succeed doing things this way. Some don't. Thus far his track record indicates he has had no success trying this structure.
As far as the analytics? I think there's a huge false portrait of what's been going on within this team by posters on this board. Not that they are doing it on purpose, it's just their "feelings" without giving it due thought process.
For posters to believe we are somehow turning a page on analytics and just now will be employing it and considering it on a large scale aren't thinking this through at all. Now maybe Dorsey didn't care for it. Some claim Dorsey didn't use it.
However, DePodesta was hired in January of 2016. People claim the DePodesta wasn't really used in that first draft.
Quote:
Imagine that, the “football guy” and the “Moneyball guy,” on the same page. This is what a curious public has kept a skeptical eye on since January.
“I know everybody is watching us, and rightfully so, and they can,” Jackson said on Sunday afternoon, after his first draft as Cleveland’s head coach had finished. “I said on Day One, we are going to be on the cutting edge of what we do. Well, we showed a piece of that the other day. I’m sure people will say, how did they make this happen, like you are asking right now. We have a plan, and we are working the plan. And we are very happy, for our first time out, to produce the way we did.”
“We are trying to build a great organization over a long period of time,” DePodesta said Thursday night, “and tonight was the perfect example of that. We got a player we really wanted who we think is a great fit for us now, and yet we also have a few more bites at the apple.”
Depodesta has been heavily involved since making his first trip to Berea. We have been using analytics all along. I'm sure it hasn't been the deciding factor in every decision the team has made, but it has been an influential tool all along. Including the Corey Coleman pick.
To think otherwise would be ignoring the above quote directly from the horses mouth. To think otherwise one would have to believe that Haslam has been paying DePodesta since Jan. of 2016 while totally ignoring the very skill set he hired him for in the first place.
To at least some degree, we have been "under the numbers guys" since DePodesta was hired. And here we are...... again.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
“We have watched the offense, there are issues in Minnesota. If they can’t run the ball, it’s the most basic, bull crap offense we have seen,” Simms said. “The analytics department making in game decisions about what to do in certain situations? Get the hell out of here Cleveland. That’s unbelievable and so dysfunctional.”
This whole thing is a dumpster fire, and the National Media is rightly calling it so. the only saving grace we have is this failure forces Haslam to sell the damn team. The NFL has to be getting close to stepping in, allowing Haslam to buy an NFL franchise was a mistake. We the fans have had to suffer for it.
Stefanski was hired because he is a "Yes man". Don't think the players don't see their coach bowing to some pencil pushing baseball manager like Depodesta having say in his game plans, and his crony on the sideline trying to influence playcalling.
Had I known we were getting this, I'd have rather stuck with Dorsey, he at least knew what he was doing when it came to finding football players and talent, sure his management style needed some refining, but he knew talented football players.
Ha - Chris Simms calling Gary Kubiak's offense basic and bull crap. Brilliant, Simms - you schmuck.
#MediaExpert
People have to learn to not take talk shows seriously. Seriously. For real.
They manufacture drama, division, and talking points to create discussion where there isn't much to be had. It's their job. One person ALWAYS takes the over-the-top oppositional view.... it's how the format works. It's just part of the scripted act.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
....