DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Evaluating John Dorsey as CLE GM

This. 100% agree.

John was a good talent evaluator, he made some good moves, and some BAD moves. Some moves are still waiting to see if they are going to pan out. But his biggest move and mistake was Freddie. By far.

19 of the 32 second round picks that year changed hands at one point or another. Some before the draft and some during. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NFL_Draft#Trades

Right? The argument that just because NYG took a RB @ 2 means that the Browns can value Corbett over Chubb because no one else could slide into the slot before them is pretty comical. Or even worse, simply because Barkley was already drafted means they were able to switch their picks.

Judas Priest (In my Ken Carmen impression).

No one gets all of their decisions right .... especially when trying to pull a team out of a 1-31 disaster. Dorsey plugged in as many pieces as he could on a barren roster. Yes he has draft picks ..... but he also had nothing at QB, RB, and in the secondary. We had a WR, a TE, 3 OL, a few DL, and a pair of LB, (not counting Collins, who played like a guy on his way out of town once he got his deal) a P and a LS. This team was riddled with holes.

I'm not surprised you missed the point..... again.

The point was, if Dorsey only had one of those two picks, people have no idea if he would have taken Corbett of Chubb.

And you don't.

No, we don't.

But we had Hyde and Duke Johnson on the roster - I would ASSume he would still have taken Corbett with taking the roster construct into consideration. Corbett was a higher need than RB was at the time.

We don't know though, you are correct in that aspect.

"Mmmmm Hmmmm"

I think this argument really only comes into play when a team has back-to-back picks. Then it really doesn't matter which one you take first.

When there's another team picking inbetween your picks, it seems pretty obvious that a GM is going to pick the player he values more first. What are you even going on about over there?

Teams trade up and down on draft day all the time. Chubb was projected to go in that late first, early second round area to begin with. A team very well could have traded up to pick #34 and taken Chubb.

You'd think it would be obvious, but here we are.

It is obvious for those who really don't wish to consider it.

Chubb had gone through a major injury and wasn't even 100% at that point. He was playing again but not performing to his old self. I actually had a debate on whether he would ever be his old self again. I saw him well on his way to being back to 100%. Others didn't. That question alone would have given teams pause to ttrade up for him.

It's odd how some of the same people trying to debate this claim the value of RB's have dropped. Yet now they claim some team would ahve given up additional resources for a RB.

I think it was more about need than talent. The Browns needed a LT .. Corbett played LT at Nevada, as did Bitonio. The supposition was one would play LT and the other would play Guard.

Chubb was an additional piece, a luxury pick, due to having a high 3rd round pick. We already had a good RB ( Hyde ) and a backup ( Duke ). Dorsey went with need first, luxury second. It did not work out, but many draft picks do not, which as Browns fans, we know all too well.

That would be assuming anyone actually believed Corbett could play OT at the NFL level. I don't feel anyone did.

but maybe they thought Bitonio could.

I used the 2019 draft here by mistake. Here are the 2018 draft trades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft#Trades

There, 16 of the 32 second round picks were traded at one point or another.

Maybe someone with more motivation than I have can tell us how many of those were on draft day, and maybe even find an example or two of teams trading up for running backs. Or not.. it's not that big of a deal.

Maybe.

So he drafted Corbett in the second round thinking he would be a guard when we had Bitonio and Zeitler? And then went into the season with Greg Robinson and Desmond Harrison as the potential left tackles?

That is pretty poor.

The argument that Corbett is just a failed tackle makes Dorsey look much better. Everyone misses on picks.

Nobody in draft circles project Corbett to be an OT at the NFL level.







Everyone who bothered to look at this knew Corbett wasn't projected as an NFL OT. So you just keep on carrying on about it.

Our biggest problem as fans and as an organization is we are always looking into our past more than our future ... JMHO

Since 1999, the past tells us that looking into the future didn't help.

I thought they originally drafted him to eventually take over at center?

He was certainly seen as an interior lineman. I haven't seen anything to indicate for certain which one of those positions he was drafted to play.

That was my point. We drafted a guy to play guard, in the second round, when we already had two of the best guards in league on the roster.

It could have been center. I really have no idea. Either way it was a very poor pick as it turned out.

What's ironic is you are saying 100% you knew what was going to happen to argue your point, and then you say no one knew what was going to happen to argue your point.

Um.....

I believe the consensus thinking it was to replace Tretter at C, but I don't believe the team ever came out and stated their intentions - it was just the writing on the wall at the time, as he had Zietler and Joel - and Tretter was battling some injuries if I recall.


When we traded Zietler, they tried to plug him in there.

Either way, it was a bad pick, especially at 33 - regardless of who we drafted after him.

It most certainly was a bad pick...especially at #33 overall.

What followed in Corbett's regard was atrocious talent evaluation and a total failure at maintaining a solid OL in front of his sophomore, 6'tall QB. What was atrocious was watching your #33 overall pick cycle through failures at OT, C & RG and then STILL trade away your All-Pro RG who was playing beside your atrocious RT/turn-style.

The pick itself wasn't the issue as much as the decisions surrounding that pick that followed. He parlayed a bad pick into a fire-able act.

I understand you have selective comprehension depending on the poster, but I did know, and so did everybody else, that the Giants were not going to select a RB.

I also know that Chubbs performance during his Senior year at Georgia he had less YPC than both his Freshman and Sophomore years.

I also know that the Giants needed and selected an interior OL player with their #34 pick. Exactly the reason why I stated that Dorsey chose to select Corbett before Chubb.

So maybe you should actually bring something to the table in this debate rather than to try and shoot the messenger.

It's mind-numbing that you two are still debating the same tired, meaningless point.

Nobody is forcing you to follow it.

But follow it, I will...

I would agree if it was a stand alone thread. The problem is the banter is in a thread that people do want to follow.

JMO

Oddly enough, that draft and the picks made in that draft ARE part of evaluating John Dorsey.

You see, John Dorsey made mistakes. That's clear enough. But some of the crazy things people reach for to claim he made errors that simply weren't made is the issue here.

I've only commented on it twice....now thrice.

Let me add that I'm wearing my shirt that reads "Memphis started it."