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The Leftorium will appreciate the business!
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I seem to recall that Depo's first job in pro sports, after graduating from Harvard, was interning in the CFL with the Baltimore Stallions.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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I don't get the hate. We have 3 really sharp people in charge of different, but related avenues.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Seems like 'The Plan' is back on track after a 2 year absence... Maybe so. I hope so. Not that the plan is a sure thing. I think this time Berry is much better than Sashi since Berry is a actual scout, or has that background. I also think Stefanski is superior to Hue. Stef won't have to go through what Hue did, but Hue was the weak link . He was picked by Jimmy. Once Hue saw he couldn't actually coach a team to some wins and needed them to win some games for him, he panicked, and I guess I get it. I wouldn't like my coaching name painted to 1-31 We lost a decent number of games we could have won because of Hues ineptness.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Getting some of the 1-31 crew back together doesn't give me confidence. Jimmy is still in charge, so they will be gone in a year or two.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Getting some of the 1-31 crew back together doesn't give me confidence. Jimmy is still in charge, so they will be gone in a year or two. Except, of course, if they win.
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j/c:
Making a brief appearance in case anyone wants a different perspective and doesn't mind getting off the beaten path.
I've been reading quite a bit about how good it is that we are finally getting everyone on the same page. I am a bit surprised that everyone's memory is so short, because we heard the same mantra not that long ago.
It's when Shanny was here. Many media members and fans said he was a "me" guy and you couldn't win w/those type of guys. They said he didn't work well w/others. Folks were so hopeful because we would be so much better off w/everyone working together and on the same page.
That turned out well. He didn't work particularly well here as a subordinate. He was a bit of a control freak. That works better as a HC when you actually have control on game day. Pretty much everyone agreed that he was bright and had a nice offense, but he had some rough edges to smooth.
The other thing I would like to point out is that some folks are saying that Dorsey couldn't work w/others. They point to one article while he was in KC and repeat it over and over again like there are many examples of that claim, when in fact, it was just one opinion. It was not "widely reported." Instead, it has been widely regurgitated by certain folks who had it out for Dorsey.
I think it has been reported that Dorsey had the respect of many football guys around the league. It's been said that is why he was able to make so many trades. Other folks trusted him because of his willingness to work fairly w/others.
Or he was able to make so many trades because people thought they could get the better of him and knew he rarely listened to anyone else when he had eyes for a player. He was a good scout whose tunnel vision made him an underwhelming GM. It seems like he spent too much time alone watching film of players who would likely never be on the team to the detriment of the players already here. How could he have not known of the Monken/Kitchens rift? He wasn't just a scout any more, he failed at managing people.
I want to shift slightly to Depo and those who were/are in his camp. A lot has been made over the "flexing my muscles" comment, but those same folks ignore information from the very same article where Depo and company would not tell their head coach who they were drafting until the day of the draft. Those guys wanted Trubisky. Hue wanted Myles. They kept him in the dark throughout the entire process. Is that working w/others?
Now, pair that information by putting yourself in Dorsey's shoes. You know that the analytics guys had multiple instances of not working well w/their the coaching staff. You also are working your tail off and have to deal w/a guy that can't even be committed enough to move to Cleveland and is instead working from San Diego. Yet, that guy has the ear of Haslam and is bucking the moves of others in the organization. How would you feel about that? Would you trust Depo and his guys?
There are a ton of other examples that give credence to these points, such as Hue calling D. Watson and saying they are going to draft him, but then the FO trading away the pick. I won't go into all of them, but it's out there for all to see if they care to look.
It is my contention that Depo and his guys were never happy w/Dorsey and they were in Haslam's ear the entire time. When things went south this year in regards to the Brown's record, their voice became even more persuasive in Jimmy's mind, because he almost assuredly did not enjoy taking a back seat and allowing the GM to have so much control of football operations.
The Browns lost the best thing they have had since their rebirth in John Dorsey and the building is full of snakes and incompetents that are in over their head. That is my take and I will not be rooting for such folks. I'll come back after they are gone.
They didn't tell Hue who they were picking because they knew he couldn't keep his mouth shut. They tell Hue they're taking Myles and they'd lose any leverage trying to get a team to jump up from 2 for a QB, as quick as Silver could type. Dorsey is the Hue Jackson of GMs. Good OC (scout), not so good head man. ...That's a bit harsh. Dorsey did do some good things with individual players. But also had some pretty big misses (Corbett/Thomas). It was the everything else not related to picking players part that he really struggled with.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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I thought he was pretty capable when he was here...he has since gained more experience and knowledge.
Looks like these guys will have 5 years to turn this around and become a force in the NFL.
Berry does not seem to be an EGO guy but instead will roll up his sleeves and do the job.
This is the organization that DePodesta is establishing.
Youngest GM in the NFL...hmmm seems to have been around for quite a while.
Like the FB we just picked up although it had Stefanski written all over it.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Getting some of the 1-31 crew back together doesn't give me confidence. That's where I'm at. It took a while, but we needed to fumigate the place to get rid of the stench after that disaster. Unless Berry was the lone warrior speaking out against what was going on at the time, we don't need to see what he can do in different circumstances. That's as bad as keeping the all time losingest coach in NFL history "to see what he can do with better players".
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Getting some of the 1-31 crew back together doesn't give me confidence. That's where I'm at. It took a while, but we needed to fumigate the place to get rid of the stench after that disaster. Unless Berry was the lone warrior speaking out against what was going on at the time, we don't need to see what he can do in different circumstances. That's as bad as keeping the all time losingest coach in NFL history "to see what he can do with better players". I am closer to the fence than you are, but I cannot shake this.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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So will Berry only have 1 year to turn the Browns into a winner? If the Browns have a losing record next season will Berry be fired after his first year as GM like Dorsey was? Will see if this puts an end to the infighting and power struggles. Will be interesting to see if Berry can work with a head coach he didn't hire. Hope this works out.
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Considering Berry wanted to hire Stefanski last year, I think they'll work just fine together.
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Speaking for myself here...
I thought Shanny would fail in his goal to become a HC because of his inability to work with others. Clearly I was wrong, and I admitted as much at the time. I think he has a very low tolerance in terms of dealing with people, and so him working under an extremely inexperienced HC like Pettine probably wasn't such a good idea. You also had the Farmer BS going on.
He probably saw himself as the lone sane person surrounded by morons (and he wasn't totally wrong) and got out as quickly as he could.
As for Dorsey, I think you could see that there was at least some truth of his management inability.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Considering Berry wanted to hire Stefanski last year, I think they'll work just fine together. Or so we hope. Truly, anything can happen. At least the optics of it right now don't seem like a forced marriage.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Speaking for myself here...
I thought Shanny would fail in his goal to become a HC because of his inability to work with others. Clearly I was wrong, and I admitted as much at the time. I think he has a very low tolerance in terms of dealing with people, and so him working under an extremely inexperienced HC like Pettine probably wasn't such a good idea. You also had the Farmer BS going on.
He probably saw himself as the lone sane person surrounded by morons (and he wasn't totally wrong) and got out as quickly as he could.
As for Dorsey, I think you could see that there was at least some truth of his management inability. Yeah, I mean if you are sitting there with Mike Pettine and Farmer - who are ready to throw fist at each other as was reported before, I would find it hard to work with them as well.
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LOL
Mr. Assistant 1-31. Remember this guy was Sashi Browns Top Scout/Personnel guy.
Don't give the BS they were not trying to win. Sashi was rebuilding the entire roster from the draft, he needed EVERY pick in order to rebuild the roster.
out of 24 picks under Berry and Sashi, only 5 of those players could even stick to our roster:
Garret
Schobert
Oganjobi
Higgins
Njoku
Do you realize Sashi Brown and this clown "threw away" 19 draft picks in 2 years. We have ZERO to show for any of those drafts picks. Berry was the "genius" behind the Corey Coleman pick.
Mind you Berry thought Coleman was better than Keanu Neal, Ryan Kelly, and Kenny Clark all of whom made the Pro Bowl and since we were draft BPA that year, he had Coleman rated higher than any of those guys, and Berry and Brown were the ONLY GM in the NFL that had Coleman in front of much better players.
This is a disaster of epic proportion, Berry is nothing more than a yes man and a boot licker. Patton pulled out of the Browns job because he was not comfortable with the power structure meaning guys like Depodesta have too much power in the personnel and scouting matters.
You should be very concerned that Stephanski's hand picked guy for GM balked and walked once he realized how things were going to be run here.
I give Berry 1.5 years before he is fired. During this time he will however squander most of the draft picks we have during this time, and we will lose some good players we got under Dorsey to cap casualties or trades.
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Dorsey wasn't perfect, he annoyed the **** out of me at times BUT he was our best chance to win in Cleveland since Marty.
Our real issue last year was Monken and Kitchens didn't get along. We should have kept Kitchens, moved on from Monken, brought in a new OC and stayed the course. Kitchens was still learning how to be a head coach sometimes you have to take one step back to take 5 steps forward.
Kitchens showed enough by beating 2 playoff teams(Ravens & Bills) and beating every single team in his division in his 1st season to be given a 2nd year.
Hue Jackson wins 1 game in 2 years and gets a 3rd season. Kitchens beats every divisional opponent and 2 playoff teams as a rookie 1st time head coach and gets fired.
idiocy beyond belief. Thats typical around here with the Browns though.
Our owner has ZERO clue how to run anything outside of marketing. This is why we are screwed.
unless a coach GM win 11+ games right out the gate they are fired....we will never be successful this way.
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There goes any chance we had of getting decent players in the draft too.
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Thankfully, I don't agree with anything you're saying. Much of which has zero facts to back it.
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But I’ll be rooting in my little way for these guys and then the next. I think that 'these guys' are here for a while... I think so as well. There is nothing in the history of Haslam or the first time these guys were here to indicate this will be the case. Actually every crumb of evidence to the complete opposite as far as this FO. We have two out of three of the trifecta that failed the first time. The difference is the coaching staff. As far as the FO and Haslam's track record, PPE's over and under of 30 games is far more realistic. But I guess ignoring the evidence and the fact that hope can be unrealistic has to explain it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If they do remain and we win a lot, does that mean the Sashites were right all along?
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I thought Shanny would fail in his goal to become a HC because of his inability to work with others. Clearly I was wrong, and I admitted as much at the time. I think he has a very low tolerance in terms of dealing with people, and so him working under an extremely inexperienced HC like Pettine probably wasn't such a good idea. You also had the Farmer BS going on.
He probably saw himself as the lone sane person surrounded by morons (and he wasn't totally wrong) and got out as quickly as he could. That's the exact type of thing we should all be careful of. Narratives. When someone gets hired here people post every positive thing in the world about them. Fluff articles about their background. How respected they are around the league. How this time is different. As soon as they depart, usually a year or two later, suddenly they were hard to work with, disrupted any sense of symmetry, it was them and them alone that was the problem. We've seen it time and time again. People poke fun of Freddie's "If you don't wear orange and brown you don't matter". But the reality is, when you get hired by the Browns you're a saint. When you get fired from the Browns you were the devil. It's all a narrative people wish to believe and perpetuate to make themselves feel better that's usually never rooted in reality.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If they do remain and we win a lot, does that mean the Sashites were right all along? If they do it without Sashi? Wouldn't that indicate the opposite?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I get what you're saying. To an extent, that's to be expected, as you don't get fired for doing a spectacular job, but I get your overall point, even if you're painting with too broad a brush (there were plenty of doubts regarding Freddie's experience, etc when he was hired, for example).
However, it was different with Shanny. The rumblings about him being tough to deal with were there before he got here. His prowess as an OC was also well known, and stuck after he left. The other difference with Shanny is that he left, we didn't fire him.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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My only reference to Freddie was about his saying "If you don't wear orange and Brown you don't matter". He was a terrible HC and like you, I didn't want see him named HC.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If they do remain and we win a lot, does that mean the Sashites were right all along? If they do it without Sashi? Wouldn't that indicate the opposite? Everyone's a sashi-ite until they're not, I guess.
Last edited by devicedawg; 01/29/20 11:27 AM.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Wolf is not gone(yet). just highsmith
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Dorsey:
2018 ~ 7-8-1
2019 ~ 6-10
Overall ~ 13-18-1
Obviously it's a major improvement over the previous two years but Dorsey was also given a blank check in the way of assets. People are talking about him like we fired prime Ozzie Newsome.
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You're quick.  I caught it and changed it almost immediately.
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If they do remain and we win a lot, does that mean the Sashites were right all along? Depends, how much are they relying on guys drafted and picked by Dorsey to win vs. the guys they bring in and draft I guess. And that's an honest answer - not a snarky one. You see, I think the teams going to be decent this year actually. We have too much talent. All we needed last year to be 10-6 instead of 6-10 was a few good coaching decisions, and someone to hold guys accountable for their production. My issue is the structure of the org. will fail once again as it did. The names on the wall don't matter.
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I thought Shanny would fail in his goal to become a HC because of his inability to work with others. Clearly I was wrong, and I admitted as much at the time. I think he has a very low tolerance in terms of dealing with people, and so him working under an extremely inexperienced HC like Pettine probably wasn't such a good idea. You also had the Farmer BS going on.
He probably saw himself as the lone sane person surrounded by morons (and he wasn't totally wrong) and got out as quickly as he could. That's the exact type of thing we should all be careful of. Narratives. When someone gets hired here people post every positive thing in the world about them. Fluff articles about their background. How respected they are around the league. How this time is different. As soon as they depart, usually a year or two later, suddenly they were hard to work with, disrupted any sense of symmetry, it was them and them alone that was the problem. We've seen it time and time again. People poke fun of Freddie's "If you don't wear orange and brown you don't matter". But the reality is, when you get hired by the Browns you're a saint. When you get fired from the Browns you were the devil. It's all a narrative people wish to believe and perpetuate to make themselves feel better that's usually never rooted in reality. It works that way a lot. Sashi more became a martyr than the devil, though. At least for many. It depends which side of the fence you sit on. Some felt Shanahan was more martyr than devil. Some were pretty unanimous as they drove their bus to devildom.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Hope this guy is better than Ray Ray.
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Depends, how much are they relying on guys drafted and picked by Dorsey to win vs. the guys they bring in and draft I guess. I don't think these guys have the ego that Dorsey does... However, your point was exactly Dorsey's fear, in my mind. When he came in, I asked how would he ever turn us into a winner without riding the previous regime's coattails? We had a great base of players, a bunch of draft picks and cap space out the wazoo. I mean the scarecrow from the wizard of oz couldn't mess this up. But then Dorsey proceeded to unnecessarily overturn the entire roster, trading a first round pick for a diva WR, swapping promising back ups for promising back ups. I was actually impressed that he made it his own, but that's why he was fired. He just did things for no rhyme or reason. He had no vision. Im sure he thought the tin man from the wizard of oz could have coached the team he assembled. And here we are. Im just thankful he got the QB pick correct.
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And here we are. Im just thankful he got the QB pick correct.
Hopefully he didn't also break him with his decisions at HC and on the OL.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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I must say is that while I'm onboard with the analytical approach, I hope that everyone still does realize that we need to build a solid culture. There has to be a bunker mentality, where everyone is playing for each other, and everyone is giving it their best for the team.
That was one of the issues I had with Dorsey, is that he didn't seem to care about character or relationships within the team. If he could bring in a "talented" player, it didn't matter if they had other issues that would disrupt the chemistry. Then he would cut other guys that the team sort of took issue with. I feel like some of those things could have been handled a lot better.
I'm hoping the analytics team doesn't do the same thing and look at cold-hard numbers. Making cuts and hires left and right without considering the thoughts of how it will affect the culture of the team.
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Maybe we should consider putting a spreadsheet emblem on our helmets.
#GMSTRONG
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Slide rule on the helmet.Uniform consisting of lab coats,pocket protectors and thick glasses.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Slide rule on the helmet.Uniform consisting of lab coats,pocket protectors and thick glasses. I'll take that over a big slab of slobbered bubble gum.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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