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I understand that but let me ask you this?
What positive does the team gain by claiming they couldn't keep a guy they wanted to keep? They could have simply let him go or said they couldn't have come to terms with a contract rather than display their desire to keep him if they planned to force him out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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jc....
49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan once made a 32-point presentation on why the Browns should let him out of a job, and it changed his career
Tony Manfred and Scott Davis 44 minutes ago L
Kyle Shanahan and the San Francisco 49ers might not be in Super Bowl 2020 if Shanahan hadn't went to extreme lengths to get out of a job six years ago.
In 2014, Shanahan was an offensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns. While Shanahan didn't exactly set the league on fire in his only year in Cleveland, he still built the 21st-ranked passing game in the league with Brian Hoyer at quarterback and an anonymous group of skill-position players. The team went 7-9 — which doesn't sound great, but it was their best record since 2007.
However, Shanahan didn't like the direction of the franchise. CBS's Jason La Canfora reported at the time that Shanahan crafted a 32-point presentation about why he wanted to leave the Browns after the season, and used it to convince head coach Mike Pettine to let him out of his contract. From Canfora:
"At season's end Shanahan, the lone bright spot on offense, perhaps, presented Pettine with a 32-point presentation on why he wanted to get out of his contract, sources said. And after much deliberation among lawyers and negotiation, in a bizarre precedent, a statement was crafted and Shanahan was a free man. ... Allowing Shanahan to walk sent shockwaves through the building, with such a talented coach allowed to go at a time when the Browns desperately needed to develop a quarterback and with a quarter of the teams in the NFL needing a new offensive coordinator."
Shanahan had two years left on his deal. The team could have fought to keep him or at least asked for compensation from whichever team he signed with, Pettine told the Cleveland Plain Dealer, but they ultimately chose not to.
"It's just very hard to win in the NFL (even) when everybody's into it and they truly want to be there," Pettine said. "And again if you have somebody that just doesn't want to be there, I know it's easy to say, 'Hey he's under contract, hold him to it,' (but now) there's a dark cloud over your coaching offices and I've been a part of that."
Shanahan ended up joining the Atlanta Falcons as an offensive coordinator, which proved crucial to his resume. After a rocky first year in Atlanta, Shanahan helped turn things around big time in 2016. The Falcons went 11-5, scored more points than any team in the league, finished first in offensive DVOA, and Matt Ryan won MVP. They went to the Super Bowl, where they eventually lost to the New England Patriots, notoriously blowing a 28-3 lead.
Even that dramatic loss — during which the Falcons' offense stalled out — had its benefits. The next day, Shanahan became head coach of the 49ers. A month later, at the NFL draft combine, he spoke to Bill Belichick at length about that game and about head-coaching. Belichick had been close with Kyle's father, legendary NFL coach Mike Shanahan. Their relationship paid off down the line, as when the Patriots decided to trade Jimmy Garoppolo, Belichick called Shanahan and offered the young quarterback for just a second-round pick. The 49ers landed their franchise QB.
Shanahan reflected on his presentation in 2017 before the Super Bowl, saying it wasn't a PowerPoint presentation, but a list of items he gave to Pettine.
"It wasn't a Power Point presentation,'' Shanahan said (via Cleveland.com). "It was all on paper. I gave a number of points — 32 of them, which you guys were accurate on. I gave them to the head coach.
"I told him he could do whatever he wanted with those, whether he gave them to the owner or the general manager. I'm sure that he did. I just wanted to be up front about it. I had some specific reasons I didn't think it was going in the right direction, why it wasn't the best place for me and my family."
Shanahan also called it one of the hardest decisions of his life.
"It was one of the hardest decisions I had to make in my life, so it's not like it was an easy decision. There were a lot of things that my wife and I really loved about Cleveland," Shanahan said.
"But I also have a family to think about, I have a career to think about and that's really what it came down to. That's why I was open with those guys about it and the fact that they understood and let me move on is something that I really appreciate all of them for."
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Haslam seems to react to public opinion, always attempting to paint himself as this good guy.
The first media reports about Wolf and Highsmith simply said they were fired. Then came the stories about the Browns trying to keep Eliot. Haslam does know who Eliots dad is and IMO, was doing his best to get ahead of the story that the Browns simply fired Eliot...that was not a good look and Haslam knew he was setting himself up for some criticism from well respected football people, which is exactly what happened.
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Yeah he just made that up without talking to his son about what's going on here. Andy Reid is 61. How old does a person have to be before we would need to do something to piss them off? See you're ignoring the fact that his son has told him what's going on here. But that's okay. i know you have an opinion to bolster. Did his son also tell him to hate analytically driven baseball teams?
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The first media reports about Wolf and Highsmith simply said they were fired. Then came the stories about the Browns trying to keep Eliot. Haslam does know who Eliots dad is and IMO, was doing his best to get ahead of the story that the Browns simply fired Eliot...that was not a good look and Haslam knew he was setting himself up for some criticism from well respected football people, which is exactly what happened.
Mac, I actually agree with you here. Mutually parted ways is a corporate euphemism for fired. Offering someone a lower position knowing they won't accept it is one way to get out of situation (see also John Dorsey). On that note, it's not surprising his dad was upset and lashed out.
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On that note, it's not surprising his dad was upset and lashed out Wolf's dad simply said what a majority of football fans and coaches already know...that the Browns are a mess again because they have an owner who has no business owning a NFL franchise.
Jimmy Haslam is what his record says he is...A LOSER.
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Depodesta judged the QB talent in the draft in 2016 and 2017 and got it so wrong both times. Analytics told Depo that Kizer and Kessler were best for the Browns.
I don't know, well, nobody knows, but my thinking is, (appearances are/were) They didn't so much whiff on Qb talent in mind, and say Kizer was better than the others,) but what more likely happened>> where they whiffed, is they had numbers suggesting Qb. X, would be available at pick Y< so they waited, and when someone else took QB, X, they were stuck, and ended up taking Kizer on Day 2 as a consolation prize, Which for various reasons resulted in known results.
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...that the Browns are a mess again because they have an owner who has no business owning a NFL franchise. Haslam is and will always be the wild card. A mess? The Browns haven't even played a down of football yet! Last year was certainly a mess though.
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Jimmy Haslam is what his record says he is...A LOSER.
Only until he isn't. Records change. It could take awhile. I'm stuck here for the ride. Might as well try to enjoy it.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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If Haslam wanted Eliot Wolf, he would be here. Ok, probably so, but he didn't. Tell me, what did Elliott Wolf do for the team? I am not knocking the guy. I just don't know, you talk like you do. What did he do?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If investing a billion or so in something and having it grow 50% in value makes you a loser, where do I sign up?
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That is the loser I like....Damn, I only improved 40-50%..LOL
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I would like to know what a "football guy" is?
Are the Wolfs "football guys"?
Neither played college football from what i can tell.
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Jimmy Haslam is what his record says he is...A LOSER.
Only until he isn't. Records change. It could take awhile. I'm stuck here for the ride. Might as well try to enjoy it. Right now he has the worst winning % of any owner, in any sport, in modern history. Yea Jimma!
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would like to know what a "football guy" is?
Are the Wolfs "football guys"?
Neither played college football from what i can tell. That has kind of been my point all along. What defines football guy? Did you have to play the game past high school? Work in it for 25 years? Simply be employed by a team?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter...
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... That can be true. But no amount of experience can make something out of somebody that they just don't have natural ability and talent for. Sometimes raw, inexperienced talent is a better solution than the long in the tooth experience that is mediocre or worse. I'm just hoping that Stefanski can lead all these pieces - because that is that start, middle and end of it. A lot like the QB - if the QB is not up to the job, it makes it almost impossible to succeed. Trent Dilfer and one or two other really below average QB's are the absolute exceptions. With the F.O & coaching staff - it is all going to take Stefanski to be able to lead and bring out the best in all of the coaching staff. Even with Berry and the way we build the roster moving forward - clearly communicating the goals of the team in a constructive way would help the process.
Last edited by mgh888; 01/31/20 08:08 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... On the other hand, I work with a gal who has been doing what she's doing for 30 years and she let's you know it EVERY day. She is absolutely terrible at the job. I mean horrifyingly bad.
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Monken was an experienced OC, but failed with the Browns. Haley was an experienced OC, and former head coach, who failed with the Browns. Hue was a former HC with an 8 - 8 record, who failed with the Browns. Williams was an experienced DC coordinator and former HC, who succeeded with the Browns, but the experienced GM did not want, in spite of his Williams' experience and winning record with the Browns.
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Monken was an experienced OC, but failed with the Browns. Haley was an experienced OC, and former head coach, who failed with the Browns. Hue was a former HC with an 8 - 8 record, who failed with the Browns. Williams was an experienced DC coordinator and former HC, who succeeded with the Browns, but the experienced GM did not want, in spite of his Williams' experience and winning record with the Browns. This tweet came across my feed and it feels relevant:
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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On the other hand, I work with a gal who has been doing what she's doing for 30 years and she let's you know it EVERY day. She is absolutely terrible at the job. I mean horrifyingly bad. She sounds like Hue.
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Experience matters. It also matters how you use the experience. If you use it to change and get better, it's a good thing. If you point at it and say, "this is the way I've always done it," it's a bad thing.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical. A quick search and... Andrew Berry has been in and around football for 14+ years. In the NFL since 2009 Kevin Stefanski has been in and around football for 19+ years. Coaching in the NFL since 2006. They are 32 and 37 years old, respectively.
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I believe the men we now have in place are quite capable of doing a good job and bring us a winner. I also believe they need to be left alone to do the job without any interference from above. It would be novel if that were allowed to happen.
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That is the loser I like....Damn, I only improved 40-50%..LOL How does that make any difference in the fact that we have been the franchise with the worst record in football since he bought the team? It doesn't. That's like saying someone bought gold cheap and the price went up. They had nothing to do with that. The value of every NFL franchises goes up. But some peoplpe equate money with success and not winning with success as we see here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Monken was an experienced OC, but failed with the Browns. Haley was an experienced OC, and former head coach, who failed with the Browns. Hue was a former HC with an 8 - 8 record, who failed with the Browns. Williams was an experienced DC coordinator and former HC, who succeeded with the Browns, but the experienced GM did not want, in spite of his Williams' experience and winning record with the Browns. Simply being qualified with experience in a particular field doesn't mean that individual is guaranteed success...but it is where 99% of employers begin when trying to find the right people to insure success.
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Simply being qualified with experience in a particular field doesn't mean that individual is guaranteed success...but it is where 99% of employers begin when trying to find the right people to insure success.
That's because most people in the insurance business (large scale) don't last very long. Only sociopaths lack empathy enough to stick around. Success is never ensured at hiring. It's all about what everyone involved does after. Someone can be the greatest person ever at some particular thing, but they can't do everything. If everyone else in the organization can't work with them, things aren't going to work out. As long as everyone involved can do their job well enough, and they do it together, it can work out.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Of course it does Mac. I do agree 100% Forfive me, I didn't go back to read in what context you are talking, I assume DePodesta. The thing is that he has years of experience at what he does. He's not so much a football guy. He is employed by a football team to provide analytic information. He isn't calling the shots. That is what I am trying to tell you in a calm manner. He isn't. The things he brings to the team are tools for our decision makers to use to make the best decisions possible. It's still up to Berry and the coach to make the decisions. I don't know how else to say that to you.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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That is the loser I like....Damn, I only improved 40-50%..LOL How does that make any difference in the fact that we have been the franchise with the worst record in football since he bought the team? It doesn't. That's like saying someone bought gold cheap and the price went up. They had nothing to do with that. The value of every NFL franchises goes up. But some peoplpe equate money with success and not winning with success as we see here. LOL...it was just a comment on a comment. Go away.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We both know that's not going to happen. I'm just more willing to see there's two sides to this coin and somehow that bothers people. Oh well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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To determine if an individual is "qualified" to perform a specific job, how much previous EXPERIENCE the individual has doing that job or work related to the job becomes critical.
Some things cannot be learned by reading a book..some things cannot be learned without investing the time and effort needed to be good at a job.
Experience does matter... Of course it does Mac. I do agree 100% Forfive me, I didn't go back to read in what context you are talking, I assume DePodesta. The thing is that he has years of experience at what he does. He's not so much a football guy. He is employed by a football team to provide analytic information. He isn't calling the shots. That is what I am trying to tell you in a calm manner. He isn't. The things he brings to the team are tools for our decision makers to use to make the best decisions possible. It's still up to Berry and the coach to make the decisions. I don't know how else to say that to you. Peen...
I'm glad to hear someone finally admit that Depodesta isn't much of a football guy...
That is the main problem I have with Depo..he has managed to con so many into thinking he has some miracle method of picking player talent. I believe he tries like hell to sell himself as something he isn't...he isn't much of a football guy.
Can anyone tell us what Depodesta does to improve player talent?
I'll have more to say later...got to go for now.
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Can anyone tell us what Depodesta does to improve player talent? I can answer that one. He does NOTHING, because that's not his job no matter how much you try claim it is. I'm waiting for you to blame Chris Stanley because we went 1-31 over 2 seasons.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Depodesta is one of the only three people that have to report to Haslam on a weekly basis. The other two are the HC and GM. People need to stop pretending his input is somehow not as important. If it weren't he wouldn't be on that same level.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Depodesta is one of the only three people that have to report to Haslam on a weekly basis. The other two are the HC and GM. People need to stop pretending his input is somehow not as important. If it weren't he wouldn't be on that same level. Of course his input is important, but its the amount of influence he will exert is where all the wacky claims come in.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
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Of course his input is important, but its the amount of influence he will exert is where all the wacky claims come in.
He is a professional Sports executive, I'm sure he has meetings with Haslam about things other than roster composition.
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Depodesta is one of the only three people that have to report to Haslam on a weekly basis. The other two are the HC and GM. People need to stop pretending his input is somehow not as important. If it weren't he wouldn't be on that same level. Depodesta's job is to gather data. It is important. The GM, HC, and Haslam (and others) choose how to act on it. “We think Paul is really good at this type of position,” Haslam said. “When you think about it, really all he’s done his whole life is -- or his whole adult life I should say -- is gather data to make good decisions so we think he’s ideally suited to lead this process.” link
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Of course his input is important, but its the amount of influence he will exert is where all the wacky claims come in.
He is a professional Sports executive, I'm sure he has meetings with Haslam about things other than roster composition. He definitely does. His role from the beginning was to look at and improve the organization as whole and see how the different aspects of it can better compliment each other, like nutrition, sports medicine, etc.. IIRC a couple seasons ago under Hue they were talking about data informing their decisions on recuperation times for minor injuries.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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j/c
It's hilarious how hard people are trying to play down that Depo is one of only three people that meet with Haslam weekly, just as the HC and GM do,then pretend like his voice doesn't carry the same weight.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
It's hilarious how hard people are trying to play down that Depo is one of only three people that meet with Haslam weekly, just as the HC and GM do,then pretend like his voice doesn't carry the same weight. Because it's absolute nonsense. The head janitor from the facility might report to him as well. Is he helping with the next draft? Does he have as much power as Berry?? He must, by your definition his voice "carries the same weight".
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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