La Canfora also reports that the scouts that were let go disagreed with the team's newly-empowered analytics department and DePodesta that Goff was a greater pro prospect that Wentz. L
But was it the reason they were let go?
Or was it just a cherry picked fact?
Did they ask to be let go because they didn't want to change the way they scouted to something more analytical?
Did they also pound the table for the guys that didn't meet analytical thresholds and failed miserably here?
Did the players they graded consistently end up getting drafted later than their grades?
I'm pretty sure they didn't get fired just for disagreeing on one player. The way they showed their disagreement? Perhaps.
If you call the guy you work for a nerd and say he didn't draft real football players, he probably won't keep you around.
*shrug*
From Pro Football Talk...
The easier course for the Browns would have been to keep the scouts on the payroll but give them little or nothing to do for the next three weeks, perhaps even telling them to stay home with pay.
Which, in fairness to the Browns, may be as a practical matter what they’ve done. From Cleveland’s perspective, the organization had a large staff of scouts, the team wanted to streamline the operations going forward, and the Browns wanted to be candid and honest with the departing scouts and give scouts whose contracts were expiring after the draft a chance to pursue new jobs.
The Browns fired several scouts prior to April’s NFL draft because they were high on quarterback Carson Wentz, CBS Sports’ Jason La Canfora reports.
Cleveland had the No. 2 pick in the draft, but traded it to the Eagles along with a fourth-rounder in exchange for the No. 8, No. 77 and No. 100 picks, along with future first and second-rounders. Then, they turned around and traded the eighth selection to Tennessee, and chose wideout Corey Coleman at No. 15.
Philadelphia, meanwhile, selected Wentz at No. 2.
While the team’s chief strategy officer said in July that the Browns didn’t see Wentz as one of the top 20 quarterbacks in the league, La Canfora reports that some of the more experienced scouts in the organization preferred Wentz over Goff, who eventually went No. 1. It was this schism in the organization that caused the scouts to be released before their contracts expired after the draft.
It was curious timing for a firing, and now we know why it happened.
I don't have any inside knowledge since I don't work for the Browns, but it seems like Depo has a lot of indirect power and influence on what the FO does. He may not do the actual hiring and firing but I'm sure he makes suggestions.
He absolutely makes suggestions. We know this because last year his recommendation was Stefanski instead of Freddie.
He makes suggestions based on the information he has, and they are not always taken by the decision makers. Of note, that directly infers that he is NOT one of the decision makers.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
And at least for me, that's what I've been trying to say. The hires made favor an analytical system which Depo is the most experienced at of the entire group. The HC was actually the same guy he preferred last year.
The job he does I don't fell is any different than it was before. But the structure and the hires made certainly seem to indicate his influence and power will be far greater than before. When looking at the HC and GM hirings, it has been so far.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
He absolutely makes suggestions. We know this because last year his recommendation was Stefanski instead of Freddie.
He makes suggestions based on the information he has, and they are not always taken by the decision makers. Of note, that directly infers that he is NOT one of the decision makers.
Also... um, that's his job. Like, his entire job... the whole point of his employment with the Browns.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
They were let go because the scouting was over. The scouts are sitting in the draft room. This is the same crap that was posted a few years ago. It's all rehash.
There is nothing new here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I don't have any inside knowledge since I don't work for the Browns, but it seems like Depo has a lot of indirect power and influence on what the FO does. He may not do the actual hiring and firing but I'm sure he makes suggestions.
citizen...Depodesta is listed as the chief strategy officer and is the #2 or #3 member of the Browns staff, just behind the owners according to one source and on the Browns website he is listed behind the owners and Berry.
Depodesta, now has 4 yrs of experience in the NFL. He has the power to hire and fire personnel as well as setting the Browns draft strategy. He established the guidelines as to how the franchise operates...Depo is Haslam's favorite guy in the front office, imo.
The Cleveland Browns are Depodesta's EXPERIMENT, the first NFL team to use his Baseball Moneyball strategy based on "analytics", to build the Browns into a Super Bowl winner.
The Brown would be better off if Depo was allowed to return to San Diego.
They were let go because the scouting was over. The scouts are sitting in the draft room. This is the same crap that was posted a few years ago. It's all rehash.
They were let go because the scouting was over. The scouts are sitting in the draft room. This is the same crap that was posted a few years ago. It's all rehash.
There is nothing new here.
100% FALSE..and you know it peen!
I meant to type aren't sitting in on the draft. The only scout I know we have released was the head of college scouting. The scouts are still here. We didn't need that other guy here. I am sure Berry will fill that role the remainder of the year.
Again, this is nothing more than another Harvard Boys thread. You have posted up some of the same info that you used 2 years ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Just messing with your view of the FB position..... kinda
Ok....I was talking about scouts. I wasn't sure what you were talking about.
Cool, he brought the position back from near dead.
I am good if you get the right guy. The position was near dead for a reason. It turned to a position where a thick neck was all that was needed. They became blockers, and not as good as guards.
Maybe to refine my position, it isn't the position I dislike, somebody is going to play it if you have 2 backs in the game. It was the type of 1 dimensional players who took over the position. Maybe that makes more sense. Heck, Jim Brown was a Fullback....but now he would be called a tailback.
I want production above simply being a guy with a meathead the size of a picnic ham, blocking.
I thought both Hunt and Chubb did a nice job of lead blocking for each other. I am good with either one of those guys being the fullback. If gaining 1-2 yards is the deal and you want blocking, Ditka had it right, put the Fridge back there. Marty with Pizzouli.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I can't say I disagree with you opinion. I would certainly want a FB who can do more than simply lead block on short yardage situations.
Not only short yardage. If the guy you have does little other than block and maybe catch a few swing passes, or carry the ball 2 times a game, he leads backers to the hole.
Sure, give me Mike Alstott. That is a fullback. Rathman was good, but more as a receiver.
My attitude is this....you have 5 lineman and 1 QB. You have 5 other attack positions. Why not have an actual 5 on the field? If one of them is there to block, and doesn't fool anybody to think otherwise......why?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
You may wish to check into Kyle Juszczyk. He's exactly the type of FB I think you are describing. And the first player signed after Stefanski was named HC was a FB. Let's hope he's everything you're wanting because it certainly appears we will have a FB on the roster.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I mostly agree with you. I think a fullback should be a threat to carry and even catch the ball, even if it's a low threat. In today's NFL, he should offer a decent amount of versatility.
That said, I think all of that versatility is wasted if he can't block.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Found some information that answers the question...How much analytics do the Chiefs and 9ers rely on?..
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS Coach Andy Reid’s traditional background, having worked under Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf on his way up, might fool you. He’s progressive, which is reflected in the way the franchise has grown over the last few years. Coming from Philadelphia, perhaps the league’s most analytically inclined franchise over the last two decades, Reid brought Mike Frazier, now the team’s statistical analysis coordinator, from Philly with him. With GM John Dorsey departed, the next scouting boss will inherit three analysts. As one staffer put it, “We’re still 85 percent Atlanta Braves (touch it, smell it, feel it) and 15 percent Oakland Athletics.”
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS Chief strategy officer Paraag Marathe is a pioneer in analytics, and the Niners continue to invest in it. Director of football administration Brian Hamptonoversees a four-man staff headlined by football research and development analyst Kwesi Adofo-Mensah. And the team is very advanced in business analytics. Yet Marathe would tell you that, even after all these years, analytics is still largely a supplement to the football side’s traditional methods of running a team. L
And the percentage of it the Browns will use? I’ll save you the trouble of typing, you don’t know.
I mostly agree with you. I think a fullback should be a threat to carry and even catch the ball, even if it's a low threat. In today's NFL, he should offer a decent amount of versatility.
That said, I think all of that versatility is wasted if he can't block.
It's wasted if you don't use it. I understand the blocking. That is why I have said if blocking is all they are good for, put a better blocker back there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
And the percentage of it the Browns will use? I’ll save you the trouble of typing, you don’t know.
CLEVELAND BROWNS While the assumption is that the Browns let the numbers drive decisions, the message coming from the building has consistently been that the team is merely investing in analytics at a high level to try and ascertain their value. With Sashi Brown as football czar, director of player personnel Ken Kovash (an analyst poached from Dallas a few years back) carrying the same title as scouting chief Andrew Berry, and the largest analytics staff in NFL, there’s no question that a commitment has been made. Now, they’re trying to figure out where analytics lines up with scouting and coaching. There have been examples of the team deviating from the models and numbers tell them to do, as recently as in this year’s draft (the analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett).
And the percentage of it the Browns will use? I’ll save you the trouble of typing, you don’t know.
CLEVELAND BROWNS While the assumption is that the Browns let the numbers drive decisions, the message coming from the building has consistently been that the team is merely investing in analytics at a high level to try and ascertain their value. With Sashi Brown as football czar, director of player personnel Ken Kovash (an analyst poached from Dallas a few years back) carrying the same title as scouting chief Andrew Berry, and the largest analytics staff in NFL, there’s no question that a commitment has been made. Now, they’re trying to figure out where analytics lines up with scouting and coaching. There have been examples of the team deviating from the models and numbers tell them to do, as recently as in this year’s draft (the analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett).
This article was written in Jun. 2017, yet it failed to mention Depodesta and how much he was involved in the draft process. Maybe SI didn't want to look as if they were piling on the Browns commitment to analytics and how much Depodesta and his analytics were driving the Bus.
An example might be the analytics surrounding the Mitch Trubusky vs Myles Garrett decision. The analytics side was very secretive about their deliberations unwilling to share information with their HC, about who they might draft.
Hue Jackson was so desperate to head off a disastrous draft pick of Trubisky by the analytics guys that Hue taped pictures of Garrett on the walls of Haslam's office before the draft.
Spin it any way you want Mac, but Myles was drafted, not Trubisky. For people wondering why Hue got fired, aside from trying to trade for his own QB ( McCaron ), having a dismal record ( 1-31 ), he also broke into and vandalized the owner's office ...
All you have done is prove that the Browns do look at needs in the draft process.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
Your argument hinges on a news outlet NOT wanting to pile on the Browns?
Dude....
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
And the percentage of it the Browns will use? I’ll save you the trouble of typing, you don’t know.
CLEVELAND BROWNS While the assumption is that the Browns let the numbers drive decisions, the message coming from the building has consistently been that the team is merely investing in analytics at a high level to try and ascertain their value. With Sashi Brown as football czar, director of player personnel Ken Kovash (an analyst poached from Dallas a few years back) carrying the same title as scouting chief Andrew Berry, and the largest analytics staff in NFL, there’s no question that a commitment has been made. Now, they’re trying to figure out where analytics lines up with scouting and coaching. There have been examples of the team deviating from the models and numbers tell them to do, as recently as in this year’s draft (the analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett).
This article was written in Jun. 2017, yet it failed to mention Depodesta and how much he was involved in the draft process. Maybe SI didn't want to look as if they were piling on the Browns commitment to analytics and how much Depodesta and his analytics were driving the Bus.
An example might be the analytics surrounding the Mitch Trubusky vs Myles Garrett decision. The analytics side was very secretive about their deliberations unwilling to share information with their HC, about who they might draft.
Hue Jackson was so desperate to head off a disastrous draft pick of Trubisky by the analytics guys that Hue taped pictures of Garrett on the walls of Haslam's office before the draft.
And the percentage of it the Browns will use? I’ll save you the trouble of typing, you don’t know.
CLEVELAND BROWNS While the assumption is that the Browns let the numbers drive decisions, the message coming from the building has consistently been that the team is merely investing in analytics at a high level to try and ascertain their value. With Sashi Brown as football czar, director of player personnel Ken Kovash (an analyst poached from Dallas a few years back) carrying the same title as scouting chief Andrew Berry, and the largest analytics staff in NFL, there’s no question that a commitment has been made. Now, they’re trying to figure out where analytics lines up with scouting and coaching. There have been examples of the team deviating from the models and numbers tell them to do, as recently as in this year’s draft (the analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett).
This article was written in Jun. 2017, yet it failed to mention Depodesta and how much he was involved in the draft process. Maybe SI didn't want to look as if they were piling on the Browns commitment to analytics and how much Depodesta and his analytics were driving the Bus.
An example might be the analytics surrounding the Mitch Trubusky vs Myles Garrett decision. The analytics side was very secretive about their deliberations unwilling to share information with their HC, about who they might draft.
Hue Jackson was so desperate to head off a disastrous draft pick of Trubisky by the analytics guys that Hue taped pictures of Garrett on the walls of Haslam's office before the draft.
When are successful teams ever not secretive about their draft plans?
When is Hue ever secretive? Telling Hue something was generally the same as telling the entire media-following world something.
If someone fell in love with a QB and thought we were going to take him, they may have offered a deal we couldn't refuse. We might have still got Myles and more. Unfortunately, Hue isn't that great at planning and grand strategy.
Hue gets an idea in his head and fixates on it to the detriment of everything else.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
memp, bull, oobs 32...all of you, stop being LAZY...
All of you are free to look up everything I said, but don't give your LAZY BULL CRAP, questioning what I post without you doing your own homework.
The Moneyballers were keeping Hue in the dark about whether they would pick Garrett or Trubiski. That in itself was total BS by Sashi and Depo.
Since Hue was not going to be let in on who they were drafting, Hue took it upon himself to wallpaper Haslam's office with pictures of Garrett. Something else that I read about was a final sitdown meeting Hue had with Haslam, either the day of the draft or the day before the draft.
Hue told Haslam he would NOT support Trubisky if the Moneyballers picked him over Garrett. I'm not sure if Hue's threat had any influence over the pick of Garrett instead of Trubiski, BUT IT WORKED out the way Hue wanted.
This situation can be looked at as an indicator of just how much of a split Haslam had created by allowing the Moneyball boys so much control over the franchise...without the input of the HC.
It’s almost like Hue Jackson couldn’t be trusted with sensitive information. . .
Right? I mean, telling the owner that you would refuse to support your QB in private or in public is the epitome of professionalism. With feelings that strong along with whoever Hue showed himself to be behind the doors of Berea, no kidding he couldn't be trusted lol
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
This situation can be looked at as an indicator of just how much of a split Haslam had created by allowing the Moneyball boys so much control over the franchise...without the input of the HC.
No. This situation can be looked at as an indicator of just how much Hue's ego and attitude got him a reputation of someone no one could respect or wanted to work with.
That famous scene between Hue, Haley, and Gregg? Those looks were all based on who Hue presented himself to be, not due to any sweet nothings whispered in their ears by Jimmy
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
It’s almost like Hue Jackson couldn’t be trusted with sensitive information. . .
He couldn't. They were probably jerking him around. "Hey Hue, our numbers came up with this guard at Boise State, what do you think about taking him #1?"
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
It’s almost like Hue Jackson couldn’t be trusted with sensitive information. . .
He couldn't. They were probably jerking him around. "Hey Hue, our numbers came up with this guard at Boise State, what do you think about taking him #1?"
You laugh, but that's no further a stretch than some of the stuff mac has posted in this thread. You might give him ideas.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Yet Hue Jackson remained on as HC for a year and a half after Garrett was drafted. Doesn't anyone find it odd that Haslam kept a HC nobody liked or trusted for another season and a half after Garrett was drafted if the theory nobody trusted Hue or wanted to work with him is true?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It was heavily reported that Haslam was a big big fan of Hue. Hired him over the protests of the brain trust.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
So the contention of some is that Haslam chose to keep a dysfunctional group together for a year and a half after some huge debacle in the 2017 draft?
I mean it is Haslam so anything is possible. However, it sounds far more logical to conclude this entire situation was overblown than anything else.
I mean not everything in life is a conspiracy theory.
Andrew Berry just commented in his pressure about that "time" in Cleveland - and I am paraphrasing " the one thing I would like to bring back or keep was the collaboration we had from then"
Andrew Berry just commented in his pressure about that "time" in Cleveland - and I am paraphrasing " the one thing I would like to bring back or keep was the collaboration we had from then"
That certainly doesn't sound like the dysfunction some seem to describe.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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