DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum ...Depodesta inherits a 2018/19 team averaging 6.5 wins per year, the 2020 goal, THE PLAYOFFS!

Depo and Dorsey were at odds. It's why Dorsey hired Freddie...to prove who had more power. So instead of Dorsey doing what was best for the Browns he was more interested in winning a pissing contest. That was ultimately his undoing.

But I don't blame Dorsey. I blame Haslam. He's the one that created a situation and culture that pitted Depo against Dorsey.

Things will never get better under Haslam. He's created a rotten to the core organizational culture where nothing can survive.

This season will be a disaster. Just like all the others.

I agree w/almost all of what you said other than one or maybe two stances.

I think Dorsey hired Freddie because that is who Baker wanted. That is not an insult to either Baker or Dorsey. I think Baker liked Freddie and Dorsey was trying to do everything he could to make things "right" for Baker.

The other thing is that I don't think this upcoming year will be a disaster. I think the talent Dorsey acquired will lead to two more decent seasons and then it will go rapidly downhill as the Depo/Berry/Etc guys will make dumb move after dumb move like they did when they led the team to 1 and 31.

I agree that is who Baker wanted. But then who was the "flexing muscles" comment directed toward then? The fact that Baker wanted Freddie just greased the wheels for Dorsey to make it happen and get one up on Depo. The fact that Freddie failed then gave Depo the ammunition to get in Haslam's ear.

It's an absolute dysfunctional mess that incentivizes employees to want to get their way instead of doing what is right for the organization.

I'm sorry. The Browns will never be good under Haslam. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it all the way through another double digit loss season upcoming...alignment was a fancy word that allows Haslam to meddle.

I mean let's be honest here...Dorsey, Wolf, and Highsmith...OR...Depo, Berry, and Stefanski? My point being is Haslam could have had alignment with the guys that were already here. You know the guys full of experience and a proven track record.

I am speculating, but I think that Dorsey might have resented the power that Depo had, especially because the guy would not even commit to being in the facility and instead resided in San Diego.

I also think that the leftovers from the previous regime battled w/Dorsey over power. I can see why Dorsey might have questioned their competence and trustworthiness. They are the same guys who would not even tell their HC who would be their first overall pick. They also cut Joe Haden after the HC and DC just said how invaluable he was. They are the same guys who balked at acquiring Jimmy G despite the coaches wanting the dude. They are same guys that Wylie wrote about leaving the facility early each night and not supporting the coaching staff.

There are folks on here who have a history of deception telling us that Dorsey couldn't work well w/others, but I think the truth points more towards the others not working well w/Dorsey, Highsmith, Wold, and company. Fat Freddie's incompetence gave Depo the ammunition to get in Jimmy's ear. Dorsey had rightfully put Jimmy outside of the football decisions, but I almost guarantee that Depo used that as a sword to get Jimmy to turn against Dorsey.

The bad guys won and I am bitter.

If Haslam "created" the situation, then he created it when he hired Dorsey. He didn't pit DePo against Dorsey, he put Dorsey against DePo. Dorsey was the guy who got what he wanted and made no secret that was what he intended when he first came on board.

Dorsey absolutely made decisions in acquiring talent that helped improve the roster. But Dorsey also made decisions based on what Dorsey wanted to do because it's what he wanted to do regardless of whether or not it fit in the big picture. Talk all you want about instilling a winning culture, but it's obvious that Dorsey was not the guy to do that. EVERY single one of the behavioral problems various players presented ranging from OBJ's uniform tiffs with the League to Myles getting suspended were all decisions made based on what theywanted to do, not with the big picture in mind.

I direct reflection on Dorsey.


So you'll have to excuse folks like me for not pining after yet another alleged "football" guy who somewhere along the line forgot about the importance of team in football.

LOL...............but, Depo, Berry, and rest of that crew who went 1 and 31 were the guys to instill a winning culture?

Are y'all for real? Seriously!

From everything I've been able to find, Sashi inquired about Jimmy G and Bill said he wasn't available. On various broadcasts leading up to the Superbowl, the story went Bill would only trade Jimmy to somewhere he thought he could be successful.

link

Wylie's account was vastly different. Now, some might believe Wylie when referring to Freddie and Zampese and then choose to not believe him about Sashi and the FO. That does not surprise me.

However, I think it might be wise to say he is full or crap, right on, or fairly believable on both accounts.

The only comment I'm seeing from Wylie about a Browns' GM is him saying Gregg Williams was too strong for Dorsey.

Have a link? I've tried several different searches and I'm not seeing anything on Sashi or Jimmy G from Wylie.

You completely missed the point.

Haslam is the root cause. It's plain as day.

There is no way that every single coach and GM that Haslam has hired all sucked.

But there is one common denominator.

What's Dorsey's failure to manage and instill a proper culture have to do with DePo, Berry, and crew?

I don't know if they can put one together. I do know however that their guiding philosophy of having a unified vision and making all decisions in the direction of achieving that unified vision paramount IS a recipe for a winning culture.

Spin and fabricate all you want, but everyone we have in place currently came to the position with a reputation of being able to work with others. You can't say that about guys like Dorsey and Hue no matter how much you plug your ears and close your eyes and yell "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!"

Look, the fact of the matter is that the Browns need DePo more than DePo needs the Browns. The field of applied analytics is in great demand across different industries, a field that DePo is highly regarded in no matter how much you and mac and others try to poop talk him.

j/c fun fact...

we have the 4th easiest schedule this year.

Jimmy's problem isn't that he hired people who sucked, because for the most part they didn't. Jimmy's problem is that he's tried to shortcut the process he hired DePo (and Sashi et al) that he agreed to.

But to claim that anyone starting with Sashi's firing to Dorsey's parting of ways is a victim is absurd. Being fickle is not Jimmy's problem.

I do think we will have a winner with Jimmy. I don't think all the coaches were horrible, but I think they were put in horrible positions to succeed because of Jimmy.

I believe he's learned.

I'll say it again, but I can't believe people actually think Dorsey did a good job.

Do people actually assume without Dorsey there's no way we could bring talent with the 1st, 4th, 33rd, and 35th picks in the draft? It would have been almost impossible not to... and one of those picks has already been traded away while another one is hated by some fans. How is that being a good GM?

I don't know, do they?

Similar to what I replied to Vers, what do the hypothetical picks of hypothetical staff have to do with the the picks actually made by Dorsey?

Look, all I'm trying to do is be consistent. Prior to the beginning of the season, regardless of how much hype any one of us individually bought in to, the bare minimum was that this team should have been competitive. As the season started to shape up and we saw what the Bengals were and what the Steelers were, AND with a win of Baltimore early... this team should have been competing for the Division Title.

That pre-season hype and the visualization of an achievable goal of competing for the Division doesn't happen unless you recognize that there was talent on this roster.

Now, I know in this all or nothing world there's little room for context or nuance. Just because I think Dorsey brought more talent than he let go of, doesn't mean I think he was 100% in this area. I think there was more good than bad.

You're right, probably anyone could have brought talent with those picks. But at a minimum, Dorsey didn't blow the Draft and while he did create some needs, he didn't trash the roster.

My final evaluation of Dorsey is that his ceiling in the NFL is probably that of a really good talent scout. He's simply not cut out to be a manager.

I don't understand why both things can't be true?

Well Vers, we never know exactly how those things go down, but I think Dorsey could have stayed. It's pretty evident he wasn't going to be the person selecting the coach. Were any other changes going to be made?? I think he would be selecting players and would have still been GM.

When he left it was said they came to a mutually agreed decision.

That usually means the team was changing his authority in some manner and John couldn't agree with those new terms. I don't think Dorsey went to Haslams office and was told he was fired.


Oh...I meant to add...I agree there was some strain between Dorsey, Depo, and Berry. Just days on the job Dorsey came out with his famous line, "Those guys didn't get real players".

You think that might have caused some tension in the building?

That is why after saying 7-8 wins, to be fair I brought up 9 wins. I think we can win 9 for sure....knock on wood.

Playoffs? Lets hope so and wait to see how it plays out.

I can agree, but there is nothing we can do about that, so I now have to say I disagree. Just kidding...I will say I hope you are wrong...how's that?

Well, until Washington wins 12 games and the Jags make the playoffs next year.

That’s your opinion on the playoffs ... I’m certainly not lowering expectations .... the talents still there ... Freddie sucked this is not an excuse but last year the injuries really hurt ... not having an OBJ with the explosion to create separation and make big plays ,,,, u combine with Bake after year 1 thinking this was going to be easy and not doing what he should have in the off season ... just getting OBJ back healthy and Bake hopefully improving immensely will improv3e the O drastically alone ...

And lucky for u, u didn’t say it was my agenda cause its the same agenda as last year ....

Don’t waste your time bro .... the menZas are still butt hurt over last year And need two people to blame instead of one .... criticize KJ all u want for the hire ... WELL DESERVED .... but to fire him over it with all the talent he’s brought us ... typical thief ...

KJ got fired cause he made one bad coaching hire and the thief is ... well the thief ... I’d *L* but that ain’t funny ...

My favorite part .... he loses a power struggle to Reid who left Phili cause he lost a power struggle there ... then wins one vs KJ .... now KJ according to them runs roughshod over Depo to hire Kev ... so KJ can’t get along with no one ... but if we hired Kev and Depo flexed his muscles it would have been fine .... its like they don’t understand SOMEONE HAS TO WIN ... its simply how it works but KJ is the devil cause he won and it didn’t turn out well ...

I'd say this is a really fair and accurate assessment.

Dorsey basically said we didn't have any real players on the team.

Would you cozy up to a new board moderator who said we need to get real posters in here? That is pretty much insulting to anyone who posts as well as all previous moderators. Or do you not see it that way?

I'm pretty sure Jimmy's biggest problem was that he picked coaches that sucked. Rosters didn't help them, but they were awful as HCs/leaders. It seems they were good with drawing up the X's and O's, but often horrific on getting it to translate to the field.

There have been lots of problems, though. Not just the coaches.

Because it was a stupid thing to say?

Great point about the coaches .... the track record of the gm’s since they left here is INCREDIBLE ... all the talent we’ve let go at the GM position is mind boggling ....

What you're really asking me here is if I actually take the word and a quote from the actual player involved over speculation of posters on a message board. And yes, I do.

We now live in a world where actual quotes and facts don't matter. Your post is a prime example of that.

We also had a very tough schedule last year.

Titans: 9-7
Jets: 7-9
Rams 9-7
Ravens: 14-2
Niners: 13-3
Hawks: 11-5
Patriots: 12-4
Broncos: 7-9
Bills: 10-6
Steelers: 8-8
Dolphins: 5-11
Steelers: 8-8
Bengals: 2-14
Cardinals: 5-10
Ravens: 14-2
Bengals: 2-14


That's a tough schedule right there.

The moderators have no control over who signs up on this board unless it's someone who was permanently banned in the past. So that point is moot.

Considering the quality of football posts from the past compared to now, I think such a moderator would be correct.

And the crazy thing is - we started last season with the "4th easiest schedule"...

So you can take this:


... with a grain of salt.

Last year was a wasted year with Freddie. We obviously didn't know that when the season started but we know it now. Before the season started everyone that was analyzing our Browns said two things over and over. They were that we had a 1st year HC with no HC experience and our O-line was suspect. Those were our 2 biggest flaws according to them and they were right. It came to fruition big time and ruined our season. We hopefully corrected one with KS and now we have to acquire new players to shore up our weaknesses.

I think it's more like "if at first you don't succeed, Try Try again"!

Love him or hate him, Jimmy does indeed keep trying..

Unfortunately, the only thing he really tries is "something else". He has no plan, and he never sticks with what he starts. He just restarts for the sake of something new.

Based on last year's records. That is a farce. The Bengals will have Joe Burrow, the Colts will likely have a new QB (Philip Rivers?), the Raiders will be playing in a different state, the Steelers will have Roethlisberger, the Texans roster will be weakened by their lack of draft picks, the Giants will have Daniel Jones starting the whole season, the Cowboys have a new coaching staff, the Titans may or may not have a new QB and running back, etc.

After the draft, when the Vegas odds are set for the most part, the real strength of schedule projections will come out. Those will show the real story.

With all that said, 6-10.

Because Dorsey insulted 2 of his sr. staff in a public way..

I expect the playoffs. My standards for a long time. I also didn't say you had an agenda because you mostly don't. That comment was aimed at those who will use a non-playoff season as their reasoning that Depo and others failed and must go.

You know they are out there.

I looked forward to going to a game with you last year but we couldn't work it out schedule wise. Maybe next season.

The schedule comes out around April 20 something. I know by May which games I am going to, which not, and which I might have 1 open seat.

6-10 guarantees starting over with a new QB.