DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Player movement, off-season

Sorry for any confusion. I wasn't saying cut them right now or even cut all 3, just that I had a list back in November of guys I expected to be "replaced" in some fashion and we took out a large chunk of them today.

I was mostly laughing to myself.

Seriously though, I would rather bring back Robinson than Hubbard and Kirksey's clock is ticking either way.

That is a good compromise. I would just say that just because guys started it doesn't mean they are starters. Hubbard is way below the level of production you would with your starting right tackle.

Quit acting like some if not all of those guys weren't going to be cut.

Sorry man, the roster wasn't going to remain the same even if the Dorse was still here.

Geesh.

I don't love it. I find it sad.

It's chapped asses sore because their guys failed to produce a winner like they expected.

Don't blame the new guys for the old guys failure is my attitude.

But opening up more money possibly does.

Every team cuts players this time of year and we have some Whining about cutting Kush. LOL



Give ma a break!

A lot of people down on Hubbard. He was the best RT on the roster last year. I agree he was pretty bad as a RT. But I think he would be the best RG on our roster and actually be pretty decent as RG compared to the others in the league.

Good cuts IMO. Marginal (very marginal) players in exchange for that cap savings.

Harris is one of the worst TE’s we’ve ever fielded

Is the experiment worth his salary?

I really don't want to get into any personal battles, but peen.......you are off the chain. I've been reading your posts and you are telling folks to go root for another team and making comments like the one above. Hell, I just came from another thread and you were trashing YTown and Pit.

The crazy thing is that you and some others [who I won't even talk to] have been crying and complaining ever since Sashi was fired.

And you have the nerve to say don't blame the new guys for the old guy's failure AFTER the previous old guys went 1 and 31?

Seriously man. Get real! I expect that type of stuff from some posters on here, but I am surprised you have fallen that low.

And, you can fire back on me and I won't mind because I was pretty harsh just now. I just had to get that out there because it is something that I have had a hard time with for quite awhile now. So be it if this gets to the point where you and I don't speak.

Anyway.........I already knew that we couldn't make trades right now. Then again, I didn't think it was a must to cut guys now before we had replacements. This is same stupid crap that the "smart guys" did when they led us to 1 and 31.

Dorsey waited and made trades like:

Kizer for Randall. Randall was kinda crazy last year, but Kizer is beyond terrible.

He got picks for bums like Kessler and Hogan.

He got a pick for C. Coleman.......the "smart guys" first pick ever.

He got a 3rd for Duke after the world knew the relationship was doomed.

He even got a 4th for Avery, who was a 5th round pick. There are a couple of guys saying that he got less than than what he spent, but that is incorrect. He probably didn't even want to trade Avery, but Wilkes would not play him. I don't think Avery did much in Philly. I could be wrong about that, but I never saw him when I watched the Eagles.

He absolutely stole OBJ from the Giants. Peppers is an in the box SS and those guys are a dime a dozen.

I do think he lost the trade of Zeitler for Vernon. I understood it. He was trying to create a fierce pass rush and help Myles prosper. Edge dudes are more valuable than RGs. I think he lost that trade, though.

The trade of Ogbah for Murray was probably a wash. Neither guy fit into the other team's needs.

The trade of a 4th round pick for Landry was absolute highway robbery.

Signing Hunt was a brilliant and inexpensive move.

I just don't see what's so great about cutting all of these guys right now when we haven't yet replaced them. I think Carey is a much more valuable player than his PFF numbers. I do think those numbers are probably justified, but Carey played in the slot. He played outside. He played some safety when we needed him to. He is very versatile and cutting him w/out getting a better player is dumb. But yeah, we saved a couple of million.

This is the kind of crap that happens when you get rid of the football guys. And before anyone misrepresents what I am saying.........I will say it for the hundredth time......I believe in analytics. I think you need those guys in your organization. But, that doesn't mean to get rid of all the football guys and rely on guys who have already proven to be a disaster of epic proportions!

The thing is, I don't think you were harsh. I am a big boy and consider you a friend


I expect honest talk from friends.


We will always speak.

I have had my allotment of bourbon for the evening....usually around 4:30 is when I will pick this back up.

All's good my friend. We can disagree, but we remain friends. That is how it is to work, right?

So hope we don't cut Kirko.

Why? What has he done for the team in the past 2 years?

I get new regimes get rid of old regime players. Hate that. It’s like ego won’t let them admit someone else has eye for talent. I don’t have a problem so much as cutting these guys but this early before the staff has a chance to see them and evaluate fit just creates more holes where we can’t afford more

I was pretty harsh. It's just been something that built up because I have been holding it in for awhile.

Much respect for your reply. I deserved some grief because I went at you pretty hard. You took the high road and I admire that.

I don't know that I would call it an experiment. If I am not mistaken, he played a good bit guard for the steelers (don't know if LG or RG).

I don't know his salary, or more importantly his cap hit but even if I did, I wouldn't know if it is worth it.

I think it's convenient to pick 2 as your lucky number, although he's been a Brown for 6 seasons.

But to answer your question, in the past 2 years, he's had 2 picks, a fumble recovery, 5 pass deflections, 54 tackles, and 3 tackles for loss.

Kirko has talent. I hope we keep him.

We saved over $8 million in cutting Carrie.

Thank you for the clarification.

We created another hole in cutting Carrie.

This is a difference of opinion. I'm fine w/you thinking that saving money is more important than what he gave to the team. I don't begrudge your opinion. However, I will keep my opinion that it would be wiser to keep guys like him until a better option is found. I hope that you don't mind my opinion?

The way i see it, i think they just saved 14 million dollars. Hopefully that's all money being put together to make sure Schobert is here next season.

The only one of that bunch i question cutting is TJ Carrie. i get it, but as you said, he's valuable. He's a decent player who is versatile. But from what i remember, looking at his contract when he was signed, it always looked like year three he'd be cut.


I don't think losing any of these guys is something we can't come back from

It depends on their contracts.... if any of them are due roster bonuses that we don't want to pay, then you need to cut them before we can sign anyone because free agency starts at the same time roster bonuses would become effective. So, sometimes you cannot wait - you have to pull the trigger and hope your plan to replace them falls into place.

The way I see it is that we're clearing out guys and contracts that don't have a future here and in the process, we're creating additional money to go not only retain our own, but go after guys that will hopefully be a better fit.


As for creating holes.... all of them pretty much were a hole in the roster as it is. Each and every one of them was a weakpoint.... so, it's not like we just created some dire situation. We ripped off some bad patches and are going to try to find better patches; maybe even a way to fix things.

Plus, if you know they aren't in the plans, cutting them now it the right thing to do.

It would be a disservice to them to wait until after teams have signed other players.

J/C - We can't sign anyone as yet, so we dont know what the plan is. Cutting the guys that were cut - I can see why we did it. As long as there is a succession plan in place, then we will re-invest the cap. It isn't about money vs players. It's about how to better utilise the $$$. That second point will remain the question.

The fact we haven't cut Vernon, for example, indicates to me that saving cap is not the priority. All FOs want to maximise the ROI. Vernon is talented but unlucky with injuries. Maybe next season, the dice roll with him.

About Carey,

Repeating what I've read in different sports reports. Both Burris and Murray have been mentioned as capable of playing in the slot. Don't know that to be true but this might have factored into Carey's release.

I don't want to sound like a broken record as I've said this before, but I met Carrie. He was probably the nicest, engaging, most polite Browns player I have had the chance/pleasure to meet. He was truly excited to be coming to the Browns...I met him maybe 3-4 months after he signed. I believe his wife is originally from the area and he played at Ohio U, so it was good for them in that regard..

But the guy was simply not good. There might have been a game or two where he would make a couple nice, consecutive plays on the ball but that was essentially it. He was flagged all the time as a result of not being able to stick with his WR. He was signed to starting CB money, and it was evident early on that was a big mistake. I don't believe it was that long into 2018 to where he lost his starting role.

I suppose the idea of a contract restructure could have been discussed, and maybe it was for all we know, but I think the FO decided they can get essentially anyone to do what Carrie did for us these past two years. Certainly cheaper.... and perhaps younger than 30, which is what he'll be come the start of the 2020 season. I think Carrie is what he is at this stage in his career and the upside just isn't there, IMO. Well, the upside is what money we get back for cutting him.

Best of luck, Carrie.

Gosh, can you imagine the uproar if we had cut players like Jamie Collins and Darren Fells to save a buck before we signed a free agent to replace them?


The double standard marches on...

Agreed that in order for Carrie to remain he would have had to restructure his contract. $8.1M was far too much for his on-field performance. And yes, he was one of the great guys and adults on the team.

Also, Terrance Mitchell had an overall coverage grade per PFF of 61.1 as compared to Carrie's overall coverage grade per PFF of 47.7.

Here are Carrie's numbers per PFF when covering only the slot...

I agree with this take on Carrie. Of the 4, this is the one I question. This does create a hole, and we are not up against the cap at this point.

The TE was a disappointment. He came he with the rep of being a good blocker with good hands, and did not show either.

Just an FYI, Eric Murray is a UFA.

j/c:

I looked it up and the Browns will save $6.35 million with $1.8 million in dead money.

Hopefully cutting Carrie means they liked what they were seeing from Donnie Lewis at the end of the season.

IIRC, he had a big year w/ the Raiders (?) that led to this latest (very lucrative) contract. He cashed in off his contract year. Not a positive for the regime that signed him, but we've seen much much worse. Plus, he did help us out when we were banged up in the secondary.

We did fix a mistake regarding his contract by cutting him, but some of the hand-wringing is a bit much (by those that are doing it).

I knew you would be one of the first to complain about cutting players.


It's not about money, but I am barking up the wrong tree if I continue.

Stay clueless.

j/c...

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Taysom Hill (who is somehow 30 years old) and Teddy Bridgewater.

Mormon

j/c:

Good gosh,,,,teams cutting players. How dare them.