I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Quote:
I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?
JCing...
YT...IMO, how that turned out, was not an accident but intended to insure that Depo had the deck stacked in his favor from the beginning of the hiring process. Hiring the coach before hiring the GM insured that Depodesta's preference, Stefanski, would have Depo's assurance that Stefanski would get the job.
It has been reported that Dee (and possibly Jimmy) preferred hiring Josh McDaniels for the HC job. As a NFL franchise, you don't bring and coaching candidate back for a second interview AND INVITE HIS WIFE to join the candidate on that visit, unless you are ready to offer the job to that candidate.
Somebody put the kibosh on the Josh McDaniels hire and it most likely was Depodesta, who very likely would have been out of a job if McDaniels had been hired as the Browns HC. Chances are that McDaniels would have used analytics in the same proportion that Belechick used analytics in New England, which would mean that Depo and his analytics program would no longer be needed by the Browns.
I can only imagine the conversations that took place between Depodesta and Haslam, from the time that McDaniels and his wife "landed in Cleveland" on Jan 10, 2020 to the time "they left Cleveland" on Jan. 10, 2020, "WITHOUT" a commitment from Jimmy and Dee Haslam.
The Haslames reputation likely hit rock bottom among the NFL eletes thanks to the obvious snub of the Haslams. Again, you don't invite a candidate's wife to join her husband on a second interview unless you are prepared to offer the job to that candidate.
Who was responsible for the change of heart?...the guy who had the most to lose...Depodesta. Jimmy listened to Depo and instead of hiring a coach who very likely grew up as a Browns fan decades before Jimma and De even thought about buying the Browns historic franchise ...Jimma and De listened to the advise of their "west coast" employee who comes and goes as he sees fit...who is virtually running the Browns franchise on a part-time basis while he builds, promotes and operates his own west coast business.
Quote:
It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Reality is, Depodesta is NOT ON EQUAL FOOTING with Berry and Stefanski. Depodesta is above "EVERYONE" within the franchise and his power includes the right to "hire and fire" everyone but the owners of the franchise.
Depodesta is a master manipulator, using his power to establish guidelines as to how the Browns should be managed and how the franchise should operate. Depodesta would not be in such a powerful position without the support of ownership.
Ownership simply follows Depo's lead, preferring to follow, rather than lead the franchise. The foundation to win is in place and hopefully "Moneyball" will not interfere with the growth of the franchise.
Depodesta needs to take a step back, allowing Stefanski and his coaches to do their job without interference from guy in charge, Depodesta.
BTW, Depodesta's west coast business features his employment with the Browns as a marketing campaign to promote his personal business, located in San Diego, CA.
I do wonder if the Haslams might be invested in Depodesta's business venture, which was launched in 2012, at the same time Depodesta was hired by Haslam...
Josh McDaniels brought his wife to the only interview this year, because she wanted to visit her parents. They are local.
McDaniels has been attributed to the quote that the Browns were delusional, thinking they had the talent to win now. Somehow, that seems to be the greater reason, other than a Depo veto of the move, as to why McDaniels was not hired.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
I think that most realize that Depodesta is the man in charge and the defacto GM, with the power to hire and fire and the final approval on major personnel moves. He interacts with the Haslams, including them, thus they feel involved, which is good for Depo's job security. It never hurts to brown nose the boss!
You really need to start your posts with “Once upon a time,” “Long ago,” or “Once there was a
I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Quote:
I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?
JCing...
YT...IMO, how that turned out, was not an accident but intended to insure that Depo had the deck stacked in his favor from the beginning of the hiring process. Hiring the coach before hiring the GM insured that Depodesta's preference, Stefanski, would have Depo's assurance that Stefanski would get the job.
It has been reported that Dee (and possibly Jimmy) preferred hiring Josh McDaniels for the HC job. As a NFL franchise, you don't bring and coaching candidate back for a second interview AND INVITE HIS WIFE to join the candidate on that visit, unless you are ready to offer the job to that candidate.
Somebody put the kibosh on the Josh McDaniels hire and it most likely was Depodesta, who very likely would have been out of a job if McDaniels had been hired as the Browns HC. Chances are that McDaniels would have used analytics in the same proportion that Belechick used analytics in New England, which would mean that Depo and his analytics program would no longer be needed by the Browns.
I can only imagine the conversations that took place between Depodesta and Haslam, from the time that McDaniels and his wife "landed in Cleveland" on Jan 10, 2020 to the time "they left Cleveland" on Jan. 10, 2020, "WITHOUT" a commitment from Jimmy and Dee Haslam.
The Haslames reputation likely hit rock bottom among the NFL eletes thanks to the obvious snub of the Haslams. Again, you don't invite a candidate's wife to join her husband on a second interview unless you are prepared to offer the job to that candidate.
Who was responsible for the change of heart?...the guy who had the most to lose...Depodesta. Jimmy listened to Depo and instead of hiring a coach who very likely grew up as a Browns fan decades before Jimma and De even thought about buying the Browns historic franchise ...Jimma and De listened to the advise of their "west coast" employee who comes and goes as he sees fit...who is virtually running the Browns franchise on a part-time basis while he builds, promotes and operates his own west coast business.
Quote:
It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Reality is, Depodesta is NOT ON EQUAL FOOTING with Berry and Stefanski. Depodesta is above "EVERYONE" within the franchise and his power includes the right to "hire and fire" everyone but the owners of the franchise.
Depodesta is a master manipulator, using his power to establish guidelines as to how the Browns should be managed and how the franchise should operate. Depodesta would not be in such a powerful position without the support of ownership.
Ownership simply follows Depo's lead, preferring to follow, rather than lead the franchise. The foundation to win is in place and hopefully "Moneyball" will not interfere with the growth of the franchise.
Depodesta needs to take a step back, allowing Stefanski and his coaches to do their job without interference from guy in charge, Depodesta.
BTW, Depodesta's west coast business features his employment with the Browns as a marketing campaign to promote his personal business, located in San Diego, CA.
I do wonder if the Haslams might be invested in Depodesta's business venture, which was launched in 2012, at the same time Depodesta was hired by Haslam...
...just win..that is all I want!
Either stop drinking before posting or pick another subject. You sound insane.
A lifetime fan of the Cleveland Browns since you were 10 or 11 years old?
I have no doubt that you and I are on the same page, believing the Browns are capable of making it to the playoffs in 2020.
Hope always springs eternal. I’d love to see the Browns win, and, win for many seasons to come. We are not any different as fans, you and I, however, the constant posting about the front office has worn thin. As I’ve said in many a post, it doesn’t matter in the end. Who does what how and with what tools,simply doesn’t matter. As long as the team is winning, what happens in the front office is meaningless.
A lifetime fan of the Cleveland Browns since you were 10 or 11 years old?
I have no doubt that you and I are on the same page, believing the Browns are capable of making it to the playoffs in 2020.
Hope always springs eternal. I’d love to see the Browns win, and, win for many seasons to come. We are not any different as fans, you and I, however, the constant posting about the front office has worn thin. As I’ve said in many a post, it doesn’t matter in the end. Who does what how and with what tools,simply doesn’t matter. As long as the team is winning, what happens in the front office is meaningless.
I understand your point, but there were plenty of folks who complained and complained and complained about Sashi being fired. They trashed Hue. They trashed Dorsey. They said weird things like "Sashi died so we could live." They made really odd comments like "Landry can't catch a pass over 2 yards." They pimped guys like Nassib. They were much more vocal than the guys questioning Depo's role.
Yet, I never heard you utter a word towards them. I never heard you say that the subject had worn thin.
If you are being honest, why would a couple of months of fewer daily critical posts about the guys in charge irritate you more than three straight freaking years of whining and complaining about the guys in charge and the guy who was fired?
Double-standards are a thing.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 02/22/2008:59 PM. Reason: spelling
Your characterization is an embellishment. People say things like "Sashi died so we could live" just to get under your skin because you never let anything go. You invite comments and topics to stick around by being passive aggressive. You can never just post your thoughts on a subject and move on. You always have to add "I hope I can post this without any insults"...or my personal fave of "...you're a really good poster but now you're acting like those other guys"...just post what you have to post without the melodramatics. If you're not going to do that then own the fact that you're a drama and conflict magnet and stop playing the victim.
Yet in almost every case when it comes to the NFL, when a regime leaves, they all pretty much leave. You don't have one of the top three sticking around in what now will be the third FO. It's very unusual to put it mildly.
That doesn't mean that Depo is running the team as mac seems to insist on. It doesn't mean he has the final say on everything. But if Haslam didn't trust Depo more than everyone else he's let go to this point, Depo would have been gone too.
So you have a new HC, a new GM and Depo on his third regime. You have the HC Depo wanted last year. Depo worked with Barry before as well. Now why would you hire back Berry who was just fired from here not long ago at an even higher position?
Come on GM, even you can see that Depo played a big role in putting the HC and GM in place here. The owner just didn't go back in time and decide on Depos choice of HC and rehire a former employee who he chose to fire not long ago without Depos input.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Depo was not one of the top three. As far as Haslam trusting Depo I agree with you, the reason I outlasted 9 GM's is because the owner trusted me and he knew I always told him the truth, even when I knew it was something he didn't want to hear or didn't agree with I told him anyway.
BTW Berry was not fired. Jimmy and Dee didn't want him to leave, but didn't stand in his way of taking a promotion to work for the Eagles.
Yet, as you admit, you were not one of the top management people that met with the owner every week. I think you're trying to make a comparison there that doesn't exist. Depo meets with the owner every week. The same as the GM and HC will do. The top 3.
And if only a short time ago had Haslam felt Berry was worthy of being GM, Dorsey would have never been hired. Something changed his mind in a very short amount of time. And there was only one major ingredient left in the FO since Berry departed. Depo....
I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to dismiss the obvious here,
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
OK number 1 just because they all three meet doesn't mean they all talk about the same things. The GM and the head coach meet about football. Depo meets about the organization. Different things are discussed. I am also not trying hard bro, just stating the truth.
I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Quote:
I just find it ..... odd ..... that the Browns supposedly have the GM/HC/Depodesta set up as a tri-pod, each reporting to Haslem ..... yet who set up the interview process(es) for HC and GM, and who had a vote in each case?
JCing...
YT...IMO, how that turned out, was not an accident but intended to insure that Depo had the deck stacked in his favor from the beginning of the hiring process. Hiring the coach before hiring the GM insured that Depodesta's preference, Stefanski, would have Depo's assurance that Stefanski would get the job.
It has been reported that Dee (and possibly Jimmy) preferred hiring Josh McDaniels for the HC job. As a NFL franchise, you don't bring and coaching candidate back for a second interview AND INVITE HIS WIFE to join the candidate on that visit, unless you are ready to offer the job to that candidate.
Somebody put the kibosh on the Josh McDaniels hire and it most likely was Depodesta, who very likely would have been out of a job if McDaniels had been hired as the Browns HC. Chances are that McDaniels would have used analytics in the same proportion that Belechick used analytics in New England, which would mean that Depo and his analytics program would no longer be needed by the Browns.
I can only imagine the conversations that took place between Depodesta and Haslam, from the time that McDaniels and his wife "landed in Cleveland" on Jan 10, 2020 to the time "they left Cleveland" on Jan. 10, 2020, "WITHOUT" a commitment from Jimmy and Dee Haslam.
The Haslames reputation likely hit rock bottom among the NFL eletes thanks to the obvious snub of the Haslams. Again, you don't invite a candidate's wife to join her husband on a second interview unless you are prepared to offer the job to that candidate.
Who was responsible for the change of heart?...the guy who had the most to lose...Depodesta. Jimmy listened to Depo and instead of hiring a coach who very likely grew up as a Browns fan decades before Jimma and De even thought about buying the Browns historic franchise ...Jimma and De listened to the advise of their "west coast" employee who comes and goes as he sees fit...who is virtually running the Browns franchise on a part-time basis while he builds, promotes and operates his own west coast business.
Quote:
It seems odd that Depodesta would be on equal footing with Berry and Stefanski, when he helped hire both.
Reality is, Depodesta is NOT ON EQUAL FOOTING with Berry and Stefanski. Depodesta is above "EVERYONE" within the franchise and his power includes the right to "hire and fire" everyone but the owners of the franchise.
Depodesta is a master manipulator, using his power to establish guidelines as to how the Browns should be managed and how the franchise should operate. Depodesta would not be in such a powerful position without the support of ownership.
Ownership simply follows Depo's lead, preferring to follow, rather than lead the franchise. The foundation to win is in place and hopefully "Moneyball" will not interfere with the growth of the franchise.
Depodesta needs to take a step back, allowing Stefanski and his coaches to do their job without interference from guy in charge, Depodesta.
BTW, Depodesta's west coast business features his employment with the Browns as a marketing campaign to promote his personal business, located in San Diego, CA.
I do wonder if the Haslams might be invested in Depodesta's business venture, which was launched in 2012, at the same time Depodesta was hired by Haslam...
...just win..that is all I want!
Either stop drinking before posting or pick another subject. You sound insane.
I didn't think it was possible but mac made the Epstein Murder and Clinton Kill list much more credible!
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Yet, as you admit, you were not one of the top management people that met with the owner every week. I think you're trying to make a comparison there that doesn't exist. Depo meets with the owner every week. The same as the GM and HC will do. The top 3.
And if only a short time ago had Haslam felt Berry was worthy of being GM, Dorsey would have never been hired. Something changed his mind in a very short amount of time. And there was only one major ingredient left in the FO since Berry departed. Depo....
I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to dismiss the obvious here,
No offense, but I guess I'm just having a hard time figuring out just what position you are arguing.
Clearly DePo had input on the HC hire... Clearly DePo has input on any and everything else Browns. It's what he was hired for. Wouldn't it make sense that DePo would be on the same level as the GM and or Team VP? As the guy tasked with creating and implementing an organizational strategy, he has to have authority. If he weren't an equal, who would he be put under? The GM? the HC? And why would it be inappropriate for him to be in on those weekly meetings? Part of his job is to constantly assess and re-assess their systems. Why waste Berry and Stefanski's time by making them have a second meeting in order to compare notes and share info?
What most of us are pushing back against is this cockamamy narrative that DePo has ochestrated this Deepstate coup in Cleveland from his office in a hidden volcano off the coast of California.
"Do you expect me talk?" "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to watch perennially sub-par football! Muhahahahahaha!!"
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
No offense, but I guess I'm just having a hard time figuring out just what position you are arguing.
Actually what you outlined below is pretty much what I'm saying.
Quote:
Clearly DePo had input on the HC hire... Clearly DePo has input on any and everything else Browns. It's what he was hired for. Wouldn't it make sense that DePo would be on the same level as the GM and or Team VP? As the guy tasked with creating and implementing an organizational strategy, he has to have authority. If he weren't an equal, who would he be put under? The GM? the HC? And why would it be inappropriate for him to be in on those weekly meetings? Part of his job is to constantly assess and re-assess their systems. Why waste Berry and Stefanski's time by making them have a second meeting in order to compare notes and share info?
And this makes perfect sense to me. People just keep insinuating this isn't the case. That he isn't on an equal footing with the GM and HC. I mean if this is the structure Haslam wishes to run, whether one agrees with it or not, it is what it is. But common sense dictates your breakdown is at least fairly accurate. The only place we may differentiate is that I feel Depo has "major influence" on those things more so than simply "input". But that may just be a matter of semantics.
Quote:
What most of us are pushing back against is this cockamamy narrative that DePo has ochestrated this Deepstate coup in Cleveland from his office in a hidden volcano off the coast of California.
His office is most likely in his home.
I don't think Depo has orchestrated a coup. I think mac is way off base here. I also feel those who are trying to downplay Depo's role are no less off base. You have presented pretty much exactly the way I feel about how things stand. I'm a "the jury is out" guy. I have no clue how this group will do. I certainly have my concerns having so many elevated to new roles at the same time but I'm certainly in wait and see mode.
I hope that helps clear things up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think Dawgs on both sides have a tendency to get too hyper focused on presumptions and assumptions on what DePo's role in the roster is and disregard or discount what his entire role is.
I agree the influence/input is probably mostly semantics. From a practical sense, yes, I'd say that hiring Stefanski this time around is an indicator that DePo has more influence. I don't believe its the result of some sort of a power move that some make it out to be. The fact that he recommended Stefanski the year before and we're just now following that recommendation suggests to me that DePo is just now getting the deference he's due.
Whether or not he's earned that level of deference is still yet to be proven.
From what I've seen though, let's say DePo strongly lobbies for a player... I just don't see him in a my way or the highway position. We have to remember the guy recognizes the need to constantly assess results. So when he presents a player to say Stefanski and Berry, I think he'd be disappointed if they didn't offer feedback. If they said they didn't agree with the data, I think he's more interested in the reasons why than getting his way because their reasons why become additional data points. The whole goal of the analytics program is to increase the probability of picking successful players. Also to recognize players who may be overlooked.
I'm just not seeing enough that puts DePo in the driver's seat so for me personally, I'm just not concerned about him having too much influence.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Funny how in a year things suddenly change Depo was a mere after thought. Freddy was being annointed as a genius hire And Dorsey could do no wrong in player acquisitions. But the guy left standing Said the least. Maybe Depo knew all along Kitchens was going to Be one and done. And simply just waited his turn. I tell ya it seems like Kitchens fooled everyone (Even the homers) but Depo.
In my opinion, Dorsey was the best thing that has happened to the Browns since their rebirth. Before he got here, analysts consistently said that Browns had the worst roster or very close to the worst for years. Last year, those same people [I'm not talking about Brown's fans or dudes on here] said the Browns had as good of a roster as any team in the league.
It led to 1 and 31 and folks are trying to tell us that bringing back those dudes is "smart." LMAO.........it's such a crazy argument that all one can do is laugh, but folks on here actually champion such nonsense.
I agree. replacing Dorsey with a guy who was a part of the 1-31 regime doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Hoping it works out.
It's more a question of how much input and control he has than anything else. Not so much that there's anything evil about it.
Let's face it, two regimes and three HC's have come and gone while Depo remains.
The HC that was just hired was his preference last year when Freddie was hired. When everyone around you gets fired or leaves..... twice... When the guy you wants hired as HC gets hired as HC, it's obvious your influence is pretty huge.
It's not really quite the debatable topic some wish to make it out to be. It doesn't mean he runs the team or calls all the shots as has been suggested by some.
It's also a much more influential role than some are willing to admit as well.
Usually when two extremely opposing views are presented you find the truth is found squarely in the middle. L
Pit...trying to walk that fine line, attempting to put a smiley face on what took place here in Cleveland is tough to do. In many respects, it was a coupe orchestrated by Depo and Haslam.
Re-hiring the analytics team that contributed to the historic record of 1 win - 31 losses...is not a confidence builder...they have a lot of work to do, proving that they are capable of building the Browns into a winner.
Hopefully, Stefanski will show leadership and "take" the power and control over the football side of the Browns.
cf...here we go again...the analytics boys are what their record says they are...no way in hell your every going to convince me that the numbers boys were shooting for 1 victory in 2 yrs..or that that was all intentional.
Time to stop using that lame excuse and accept the fact that the Browns management and front office in 2016 and 2017 were that bad.
Time to stop using that lame excuse and accept the fact that the Browns management and front office in 2016 and 2017 were that bad.
The lame excuse that invalidates your entire point?
The team was tanking, Andrew Berry admitted as much in his opening press conference, and accomplished its goal. Then Haslam went nuts and blew up the process.
I am sure they were shooting for 4 wins combined in those 2 years. Needed to have worst record to ensure getting the top pick in the draft 2 years in a row - you know like tanking ensures.
Hue ensured that they would attain no more than that modest number of wins.
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