DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns GM Andrew Berry will listen to trade offers for Odell Beckham Jr. and others

I'm not getting on you, but Joe is by far the best LBer on the team.

Kirko is oft-injured and can't get off blocks. However, he is a great team guy, has good downhill speed and is a true pro.

Mack is athletic and should improve. He needs his body to develop and struggles in the run game.

Taki was lost out there in my opinion.

Joe is excellent in zone pass coverages. He is very smart at diagnosing the play. He isn't the strongest guy and does struggle to make tackles after shedding blocks, but he is the best we have............by far.

I won't trash the FO if they don't keep him just like I did not trash Dorsey for not getting the deal done earlier. I am not the hypocrite that some are on here. I will say that I am a bit concerned that this particular FO will start creating holes by letting really good players depart just like they did the last time they were in charge.

Bro, I still can't believe we went back to these guys after what transpired. Haslam is clueless!!!!

C'mon Vers your being too hard on MR. Haslam. A smart guy like you knows everyone deserves a 2nd chance

IMO, Kirko is better at shedding blocks and shooting through gaps to make plays on the defense. No doubt Schow has the heads up in coverage, but I think Mack can fill that void too. That's his strong suit, and he's only gonna get better.

Based on Berry's comments, I doubt we bring Schow back. And honestly, I think that graphic that's floating around that had Sashi's plans laid out on paper, I think a lot of those things will be Berrys goals as well. My point in bringing that up is, I don't think Berry wants to pay big money for a LB who isn't a game changer.

You are probably right about the Berry/Sashi/Schobert thing. One of my issues w/that regime is how many holes they created by not keeping the guys who could play. You are going to get some of that whenever there is a regime change, but it was shocking how many holes they created.

Combine that w/their poor draft choices and you have all kinds of problems. Think about it.........they actually went into a season w/a QB room of Kizer, Kessler, and Hogan. The group had ZERO wins in the NFL. Their WR room was Kenny Britt [a known headcase who had trouble w/the law,] Corey Coleman, and Ricardo Louis as their top 3 WRs.

Meanwhile, we are actually bringing those guys back and people are saying w/a straight face that Dorsey deserved to be fired because he hired Freddie?!?

I think you're forgetting somewhat how bad the roster was when Sashi's group first got it.

Would it have been nice to keep Schwartz? Yes. But Sashi was a first time GM who spent his time on the contracts-side of things. He clearly could have handled it better, but he also had to overcome all the disfunction Schwartz had gone through with his earlier time with the team. He also didn't really have an established relationship with the player. That's one hole "created", though Schwartz wasn't actually under contract, so the hole was kind of already there.

Would it have been nice to keep a healthy Haden? Sure, but he'd been injured the past two years. He also only played 11 games in his first year in Pittsburgh. Sashi didn't have a real close relationship developed with him to fall back on during negotiations with his being new to the job. We were going full tear down because we had a horrible roster and Joe's play and availability hadn't lived up to his contract.

What other holes did they make? They inherited a hole-y, unholy mess. Thanks, Ray Farmer.

Sometimes it is harder than it should be.

When someone tries to cut you off at the knees.....

Sometimes you get forced out by the conditions people set on you. They don't really leave you a choice. It allows people such as yourself to use semantics to paint a different picture than that.

Actually, I was using the literal interpretation of what happened and you were the one using semantics. Anyway, I was just joking and fishing for laughs at the expense of your post. Dorsey's gone and there's nothing we can do about it other than laugh and shake our heads.

I've been saying the same thing about Sashi for years now.

It was probably a little more than that. I get the feeling that Dorsey was kind of a bully. Something went wrong in KC as well, and I think that was the problem.

If you are the top person, you should at least be able to get along with most people, even when you disagree.

There is a way to disagree and get your way without demeaning them in the press and shoving them aside.

I can't prove he shoved them aside, but can about demeaning them in the press. If he is one way in public, it has to be at least the same in private, it not worse.

John Dorsey is a talented scout and evaluator. He isn't a good leader and manager. That takes a skill he doesn't have...tact.

The days of the gorilla storming through the room just doesn't work anymore.

Scared, marginal people deal with it. Unafraid people with some skill move on.

I completely disagree w/your take. I think the "not working well w/others" is a lie. I do think that Dorsey and his guys probably didn't get along well w/some of the guys who remained from 1 and 31. I think they resented him taking over. I think he wondered how they had so much of a voice after sucking so bad.

I think some of them, and Depo in particular, had Lerner's ear during the season when the team did not live up to expectations. I think he used that against Dorsey and made a power-play.

We all have different takes, but I prefer a guy who speaks directly to others rather than sneaking around like a coward and creating trouble.

No, I don't have a look and neither do you.

The person who deserves the most blame is Haslam. That was an unhealthy relationship that was doomed to fail. I really don't blame the analytics guys or Dorsey's guys for not wanting to work w/one another. Haslam should have stuck w/the analytic guys or fired them all and hired new analytic guys. They aren't that hard to find. A guy like Dorsey is.

This is absolute [censored] and you have ZERO proof of it. You, who loves to pontificate about using facts.

JC

Most of what I've read about Dorsey is not so much that he bullies people... he just cuts them out of the process. More than speaking directly to others, he doesn't speak to them at all.

He likes to make decisions on his own and seems to fly by the seat of his pants. Makes curious decisions with no real reasons and no signs of them coming. Seems to irritate those around him when they put in work and then read about his moves in the paper the next morning.

Not much of a collaborative type dude.

Mac said it so it’s true.

I think that Dorsey cut people he didn't trust out of the process. I don't think he had a bit of trouble cooperating with Highsmith and Wolf. (and others he brought in)

I'm tired of your hostile attitude and constant cussing on here.

I said I didn't have a link. I said it was my opinion. I was responding to peen's post where he threw his opinion out there that was just as speculative as mine. Yet, you ignored his post and jumped down my throat.

I have asked you some questions after you angrily teed-off on certain posts and asked you why you didn't do the same thing w/similar posts. You never answered.

Look, there are a lot of opinions on here that are different. That's fine. But, how about you cool it w/the hot-headed replies that don't fit your opinions while ignoring similar posts that do align w/yours?

Thus, I think your posts are absolute censored. LOL

Just a thought so bear with me. Say our new FO and coaching staff aren't enamored with Baker. We trade OBJ for a #1 and sign Case Keenum. With our 1st #1 we draft Jordan Love QB Utah State. With our 2nd #1 we draft an OT. We try and get what we can for Baker, possibly a #2. Love sits a year or 2 and learns behind Case. Thoughts?

cfrs, Hamfist, and Fate said this is so true.

What in the world are you talking about? I didn't say anything like that.

No, just no.

You liked this post.

My post was not any more speculative than peen's. Yet, Hamfist ignored peen's and tore me a new one where he resorted to cussing [as he usually does.] cfrs gave credence to his post by comparing me to mac. You "liked" that.

This is the kind of crap you guys do time after time. Make fun of opposing opinions while ignoring similar posts that agree w/your opinions. It's why I left the board for awhile. Then, I started thinking that it was wrong to allow bullies to dominate anything. I have actually asked several of you about ignoring one another. I'm good w/that. You guys apparently are not and that speaks volumes.

You are right. What Ballpeen said is also outlandish.

Nope. Actually, you compared yourself to Mac.

I'm not sure that he was comparing you to Mac any more than he was commenting on Mac's endless "the sky is falling, DePodesta is taking over the world" approach to Dawgtalker's infamy. It's comical, that's why I liked it.

It seems like you have some serious penchant for interpreting others thoughts and intent... Some sort of "reading between the lines" usually reserved for psychics. Worse than that, you've turned into the "Like" police. Constantly calling people out for liking posts as if you know why they like them. It reeks of paranoia.

So, just so I have it straight...

Liking posts is making fun of people.
Liking posts is bullying.
Liking posts speaks volumes about a person's character.

See ya tomorrow Vers... We can check in and see if anyone is complaining that the Browns haven't signed Schobert. You can use it as an example of why were so jaded, and remind us, for the 79th time, why it's an example of why everything is so unfair. You can complain about every post here, tell us all how misguided we are, and talk all day about the upcoming downfall of the team. The team you won't root for and aren't a fan of.

What a world.

So, how about we just express our opinions and stop w/all of this nonsensical fighting? I am not saying I am innocent in this particular practice, but man.........it's hard to even express one's thoughts on here.

For instance, I responded to an existing post on the Baker thread to a guy I respect. I knew we wouldn't insult one another. We would just respectfully disagree.

That led to a series of posts that ridiculed my position, which obviously killed the conversation. I assume that was probably the goal.

My contention is that it is a message board. Opposing opinions are a good thing. Not a bad thing. Trying to shout down others by ridiculing them is "not good for the board."

And here we go.

How about this, Fate. Would you agree to both of us not responding to one another again? I have been trying to not engage in conversations w/you guys. How about we all agree to not converse so we don't bog the board down w/the petty BS?

I can do it. Can you?

Pardon me for posting on this message board...

I read a lot of posts here. Why is it that you're the only who says to others not to respond so the board isn't inundated with petty BS?

I mean, do you read the message board, or do you just assume no one else does?

I don't think so. I can prove some of the first words out of Dorseys mouth were demeaning comments to people still on his staff. You don't do that in a public form if you are the leader of the team. I will NEVER back away from that comment.

Dorsey put together a top notch team in KC, yet KC decided to part ways. Why was that? As Vers disagreed and said it wasn't bullying..and maybe that wasn't the appropriate term. he said shuts out...ok....did he shut out Reid on everything? I think it was the same behavior there as it was here. He made for a hostile work environment. Something had to make it easy to send him packing.

The guy is a scout, not a manager of people. Berry is both.

There is absolutely no way to know that.

Berry is 32 years old. A kid.

I can prove some of the things I said, too.

The difference is that not one person said a word to you. I didn't yell at you. I didn't cuss at you. I proposed an alternative scenario and said that neither of our points can't be confirmed by a link.

So, what happens? Hamfist freaks out w/an angry outburst. cfrs jumps in and it's on.

This type of thing happens far too frequently on this board. Some things are said over and over and no one challenges those opinions and they become "fact," while other opinions are assaulted because they don't fall in line w/others.

I am not trying to stop you from voicing your opinion. I am offering an opposing opinion that also has some factual evidence. But, in the end.....we are giving on our opinion on a public message board.

It would be preferable if people could voice their opinions freely on here w/out all of the assaults.

Jc

Hey so we’re all assuming OBJ is back right?

My question is what are we doing with Higgins? Are we gonna let him walk and find another 3rd receiver, or is someone like ratley most like penciled in?

I hope the Browns wouldn't be dumb enough to trade OBJ.

I think there was an issue between Hollywood Higgins and the coaching staff last year. Perhaps things will be better w/the new coaching staff.

Personally, I don't think the 3rd WR is all that important for the Browns because they have the best 1-2 combination on the entire league. [Thanks John Dorsey.] I think most guys will do well as the 3rd WR because the first two guys draw so much attention.

You are certainly entitled to an opinion, as is everyone here. My issue is the VERBIAGE you use. “Cowardly”, as an example. You make a point then have to disparage a person you don’t know, or have ever met. I double dog dare you to say this kind of thing to a guys face.

I have the same issue with other posters who do the same.

I expect better from you, as you have shown in the past.

I’d keep Higgins around for two main reasons: a security blanket fo injuries to either WR1 or WR2 because he’s already shown to be a solid receiver in his own right. And two, with an injury to WR1/WR2, is going to make the team on edge, and Higgins is a proven comfort to Baker.

I used that word because peen used words like "bully" and "gorilla" to paint an unflattering picture of Dorsey. I didn't yell at peen. I didn't call him a liar. I didn't swear at him. Instead, I posted an alternative opinion that attempted to match his tone.

Personally, I think it is good to have various opinions on topics. However, if one group continues to paint a picture of Dorsey by using words like "bully" and "gorilla," then perhaps they shouldn't expect kind words directed towards the regime that replaced him, some of them who were already inside the building.

I'll try to leave it there. You can have the last word and I'm good w/that.

I agree w/you. I like Higgins. I championed us drafting him back in the day. He started off slow, but has shown improvement. I don't think he is a #1 or 2, but I think he can contribute. Hopefully, the relationship between he and the new coaching staff is a good one.

j/c


I'm wondering why there's been 3 pages of assumption that either or both sides have taken extreme positions when it comes to Joe.. .either Berry clearly low balled him or that Joe is clearly asking for too much?

There's any number of reasons he hasn't been signed (yet).

Maybe they agree on the numbers but not the structure?

Maybe Berry did make an offer that Joe's team feels is ...ok... but just ok and given his consistent level of play and Pro Bowl considerations, they feel like he could get more?

While I'm sure they have people who gauge what the going rates in upcoming FA periods are, the market isn't set until people start signing. And who else does Joe's agent represent? Is Joe Schobert the guy want setting the base market price for this up coming year?

Good post. I agree w/your take on this. I am not blaming Berry for allowing Joe to test the market. Joe's agent might be asking for too much money. Berry might eventually sign him. Maybe they don't think Joe is very good. We just don't know.

My contention is all of those things were also true when Dorsey was here, yet he was criticized a lot more than Berry has been.

At the end of the day, I hope the Browns keep Joe because I think he is a good player. But, as you said.......we really don't know the particulars of the situation.

Nobody knows, any anyone who does ain’t talking.
It’s always tough from a view outside the circle to figure out what is going on. Just as it’s impossible to tell what happened in a negotiation the with fails or succeeds, if you weren’t there it’s all conjecture.

I have to disagree on part of your post bro. IMO the 3rd, 4th, and 5th receivers are all very important. What happens when we have injuries at WR. OBJ has been hurt a lot the last few years. Right now we will have a HUGE drop off if either OBJ or Landry gets hurt again. (Which with our luck will happen to both of them.) Right now that would make our starters Hodge, and either Ratley or Taylor. That's a scary thought for me.