DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns off-season player movement

Without knowing the details of his replacement, obviously, this is a mistake. Opening up a hole on the roster is not a great look.

The guarantees are what are most important but $10 million a year is not a huge price to pay to for an above average linebacker. It seems the team doesn't value Schobert as much as most of us do on here.

(My guess is that the new front office views Schobert's position as one of the most replaceable on defense.)

well .. we do know, via report by schobert, the previous FO did not even talk to him about a contract. So let's not make this another "It's all the fault of the analysts" fight. It is what it is.. He has a price more than what the FO wants to pay, and could explain why we drafted 2 Linebackers last year.

It seems like the plan all along was to have Mack Wilson and Sione Takitaki take over for Joe Schobert and Christian Kirksey. I don't know if that is/was a good plan or not.

I would hope we won't rely on those two players to play vital roles on the defense going forward.

dunno how i feel about this. he's a pro bowl LB and you cant just find guys like him.

SAM 56 Harvey, Willie CF19 59 Young, Trevon SF19
MLB 53 Schobert, Joe 16/4 44 Takitaki, Sione 19/3 55 Davis, Tae W/NYG
WLB 58 Kirksey, Christian 14/3 51 Wilson, Mack 19/5 48 Grace, Jermaine SF19

Sigh.. thats our depth chart at LB. Considering that Kirksey is most likely out.. this would mean we are intentionally creating holes

I wouldn't say intentionally creating holes. Schobert has agency in signing as well. It would be intentional if they cut Schobert while under contract.

With that said, we have a huge hole at linebacker.

We’ll see how it plays out. He’s certainly been solid and made plays, though I’m not sure how valuable the FO views his positional WAR

So we're back to being cheap, and uninterested in quality players. I just love these analytical guys

I like Joe Schobert but the run defense has been a real issue with this team. Maybe the FO wants to get a more run stuffing MLB?

j/c:

$10 million doesn't seem out-of-line. Contracts keep going up. I had thought that Joe's agent was asking for $14-15 million plus per year. This is probably going to turn out to be another bad move, similar to what the analytic guys did their first time around. Losing "smart" players is not a good thing.

He's not worth that. He's good but he isn't anywhere near elite. Sure, I'd like the Browns to resign him. But not at that price. If some other team pays him like that, good for him. I wish him the best. If he doesn't get that big offer perhaps he will come back at a reasonable level.

Wasn't Schobert improving year to year ?
Oh I get it the Browns won't pay a player
That's improving year to year but they will overpay for bums who have seen better days like
KENNY BRITT.

Bingo.

Watch...it won't just be another team that he signs with. It will be a contender. So he'll be good enough for a contender but not the Browns.

This season is going to be worst than last. A total catastrophe.

J/C

I like Joe Schobert, he has been a glue guy in this organization. I would like him to stay on the roster but I do not think he's worth $10 million per year. He has deficiencies, they show up in his run defense, that's common knowledge on this board.

Don't lay this at the feet of the new FO. Dorsey poisoned this well more than a year ago. The crap that has splashed on their shoes comes from a pile that Dorsey left on his way out. The new guys at least opened up communication with Schobert's camp. Schobert is choosing to walk. This is on him. I wish him luck but he is not irreplaceable.

Mitchel Schwartz says: "That sounds familiar."

Here’s the thing. I totally get why an analytics person might not value JS so highly and I agree he’s probably going to be over paid by someone else. He’s solid, not great. He sort of snuck into the pro bowl if I recall via injuries to others. But he has things that don’t show up on spreadsheet. He’s a valuable locker room presence (supposedly) and a play caller on defense. As Verse said, losing smart players is not, um.. smart. I think you sometimes over pay those guys a bit on purpose. What were we thinking? $8.5mm? Not to get so fast and loose with the cap but seriously, $10mm is not a crazy number. And you gotta know someone else is going to pay him. If we’re bluffing, we’re going to lose.

My comparable in this situation is Alex Mack. An above-average player decided to take a deal elsewhere. Enter JC Tretter. It wasn't seamless Mack exited 2016, Tretter came in 2017. Still, he's been solid for the Browns. Just as likely as an outcome as the Schwartz situation.

j/c:

One thing to consider. A lot of LBers only play on certain downs. How many guys can play on all 3 downs? Is Joe a 3-down LBer? Will we need 2 guys to replace him? If so, will we get more production from those two guys for less than $10 million?

I imagine we'll see Kirksey and Mack on passing downs (when not in dime) and bring in Takitaki when we go 3 LBs. Berry was here with Sashi when Kirksey got extended in 2017. His injury was a pec, so it's not like he's gonna have a massive decline in functional athleticism. He's only 27.

Wait a sec, what makes you think Kirksey will be on this team? 10 mil is too much for Schobert but 8.8 mil is okay for Kirko (who hasn’t really played the past two years?). I’d be under the assumption Kirksey is gone

This is a great question. Schobert definitely plays all three downs (whether he plays any of them well is a different question). He played nearly 100% of the snaps for our offense last year. Losing him is/would be a major blow. We don't have anyone on the roster that can replace him.

My guess is that the front office see someone in free agency that they see as close to Schobert's equal for a much cheaper price. I hope they are right.

On the other hand you can't just overpay guys because it will open and hole.

The team is in a tough spot.

My assumption is that he's on the team until he isn't. If the number comes in at 10, maybe Joe is back. Mary Kay was probably just throwing something out there to see if it stuck, and it was 10-plus. I'm guessing someone goes higher.

Familiar?

So...Joe is signing a contract with another team for less money than we offered him?

Mack and Kirko bout to do work!

I dunno...Kirksey's cap hit in each of the next two years is approx $10 MILLION. His 2020 Dead Cap is $2.4

I don't think he's on the team in 2020 at that $10 mil cap hit. JMO.

J/c

I would think if we don’t want to pay Schobert that much we probably don’t think Kirko is worth close to that either. Not sure what his cap hit would be to release him, but we may be in line to have a facelift at LB

As was pointed out earlier, Dorsey wasn't going to sign him, so your point it very jaded.

Just don't understand the love for Schobert...he was the signal caller on a crappy, soft defense...whoopie...he rarely if ever made a game changing play.

I for one want to see an entirely new LB core....good tackling LB's that like to hit people.

Totally agree. He makes alot of his tackles 5-10 yards downfield

The problem with hiring Andrew Berry as the GM, is the Browns won't be able to sign quality players. Dorsey was able to pull of trades for OBJ and Landry. Getting Vernon was a bad move, and the Tyrod Taylor trade was a horrendous decision.

A reporter on CBS said by letting go Vernon, Schobert and Kirskey will save $30 million in cap space, which is great, until you can't sign anyone with the money, which is exactly what Haslam wants

Schobert had several situation going against him. Number one is the scheme he has played in had him out of position on so many plays ( not his fault ),, Second he is not physical enough to play a snobber knocker Middle backer.. ( I guess not his fault ) I you watch his play , you can't help but see how easy Guards and TE's moved him.. If you are a DC. , Is this the guy you want playing MLB in YOUR Scheme ??

So Hoodie skipped the combine to scout and personally workout DE/OLB Tyshun Rider from Middle Tennessee St

SSDY - The more things change the more they stay the same.

I’ve got zero problems with this ... Joe has a fairly big hole in his game ...

I’ll give these guys a few years before determining how “analytics” based there moves are ...

I know one thing for sure ... analytics has to be almost thrown out the window if we ever want any top tier FA’s ... but the 1st time around with the analytics crew they way overpaid for Zietler at the time ... and that’s a good thing .... you want a top tier dude your gonna way overpay ...

Some will get their chops broken every time over the fact the menZas STILL THINK VG IS OVERPAID ... ...

Browns and Packers are planning joint practices for the Summer.

You can count on wherever Schobert lands, they will play the Browns in 2020. NFL loves their story lines.

Remember the source of this. MKC isn't the most reliable.

Opponents are already on paper, teams won't sign or not sign Schobert based on whether they play the Browns in 2020.

J/C I dont have any problem with the front office allowing Joe to test the FA waters. Like others have posted, our run defense has been crappy and he has been part of that equation. If we take a hard look at our division every team is a power rushing team. I believe in order to win our division we will need LB's that can get downhill and make tackles at or behind the line. I don't think Joe is that guy, for that matter neither is Kirksey. Taktaki is a former D lineman, I think he is more of what they want as a LB. I remember Eliot Wolf talking about him at length and stating that when he hit people they never fell forward. I think Mack is more like Joe in coverage. I believe we will address this issue in FA and the draft.