DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season 2020 NFL Draft Isaiah Simmons

McKinney should be available in the late teens. No way you take him at #10. If he is a target, he is a great player, trade back 5-6 slots and grab him there and get a 3rd or 4th rounder in the deal. Maybe a 2nd if you can wait until next year for the pick.

I can understand why some would like us to draft Simmons or a good SS, CB etc. We are going to have to face Lamar twice a year and probably Joe Burrow. If we somehow manage to finally make the playoffs we will probably have to face D. Watson and for sure Patrick Mahomes. We certainly will need players on D who can cover and get to the QB. Seems to me we will have to get very lucky to fill all our holes with 1 draft and 1 FA period. We probably need 2 and that's hoping we can keep the good players we already have.

I might not be following you and you correct me if I am not.

But, I am thinking that you are talking about my comment on the Vertical vs Horizontal board????

If so, I am steadfast in that I believe in the Belichick's Vertical board that guys like Ozzie, Demhoff, etc have followed.

Don't deviate from your Vertical board by more than 1-2 spots because of need. Most of the time, 2 spots is too many. Of course, there are exceptions and BB even said he went 3 spots down "one" time.

So, if you have Simmons rated as your 7th overall player [I'm making this part up because I have no idea] and an OT as your 10th or 11th best overall player, it would be a mistake to take the OT instead of Simmons. Draft BPA almost always!!!

I know that might sound odd to a lot of you. Let me try this...........Remember the J. Ogden/Lawrence Phillips thing I talked about on your thread? Ozzie had Ogden higher on the Vertical board. Modell wanted Phillips because the team needed a RB and for other reasons. Ozzie stayed true to his board and drafted Ogden. He's in the HOF. Phillips, I believe, was killed in prison.

That's to dramatic. The key is to remember that you can always fill need in upcoming years, via trades, or in FA. Your draft picks........and this is extremely important is to draft players [especially in rounds 1 and 2[ that will be the cornerstones of your franchise for years and years.

Good conversation and feel free to ask me questions if I wasn't clear. I kind of feel I wasn't. Or, debate me. It's all good.

Do you put Burrow on your board, even though you have no intention of drafting a QB ? Or do you build your board based on positions you plan to draft, based on need ? I can see using both boards. One to track the draft, to follow what other teams are doing, and to focus on the positions you have planned to draft for. Or is that what you meant by Horizontal and vertical boards ?

Yes, Burrow would be on your boards. You rank the players all the way from 1 to ??. I'm not sure how many players they rank. I just know it is a lot.

The horizontal board will slot the draftee into your team's positional group. Your team has obviously identified positions/units that need an upgrade, but the Horizontal board allows you to be more precise.

Thanks, I understand better what you are saying. I originally thought when you said "two slots" you were referring to draft slots. But now I realize that you were talking about evaluation/grades. When faced with a dire need for Oline and possible perennial pro-bowler like Simpson it would take quite a bit of discipline to resits addressing the need. Especially when the need involves supporting your biggest investment at QB. You would have to practice draft scenarios where you did not draft OT in the first round. Winging it while on the clock would be disastrous.

I do now understand the logic behind your post. Thanks again.

Sorry that I wasn't clear.

You bring up a good point about having the discipline to resist moving too far off your Vertical board and filling a need.

I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of teams have lacked that discipline over the years. Sometimes, we all say "how did that guy fall so far in the draft," and sometimes the answer is that there were teams who did not have a need at the player's particular position. [Note: obviously it can for other reasons, like off-the field issues, etc.]

I just think history shows that you hurt the long-range success if you pass on better players for guys who fit a need. That's why I chose the stories of Ogden/Phillips and Ed Reed/Lito Sheppard in your BPA vs Need thread.

With all of that said, I have no idea what the boards look like. Simmons might not be ranked higher than one of the OTs on some of the team's boards. I was just speaking in hypothetical terms.

Good post.

I truly have no idea how the Browns are doing things. That's not a sarcastic insult. It's just that I don't know.

J/c

Could anybody with more expertise than myself compare Simmons to Edmunds (the athletic LB drafted by Buffalo).

As a player or as an athlete?

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/isaiah-simmons
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tremaine-edmunds

I believe Fe'Zahn (his real name) Edmunds was considered more of a versatile linebacker while Isaiah Simmons is a versatile defensive player.

I think Simmons is going to better, but I think 4Life found a pretty good comparison. Both guys are big, fast, and are versatile enough to play multiple positions.

I will add that I believe Edmunds skipped a year of high school. That's something to consider when evaluating his potential.

From PFF's updated draft guide. He's the only player in their guide where they could not find an NFL comp. Pretty crazy...

Thanks for the links

That’s impressive to skip a year like that. I think it’s a pretty solid comparison athletically ... I remember BUF used him as a spy against Lamar with some success when I saw the game

I have no idea how good he will be, but I think he is worth taking at 10. I also think your Edmunds comparison was pretty damn good. Big, fast, athletic guys who play a variety of positions. I also get the Derwin James comparison, but I think Edmunds might be a better comparison.

It depends on how he's used in the NFL. In college Simmons played basically every position besides the interior of the defensive line. That's more similar to how Derwin James is used. Edmunds is a versatile linebacker.

No matter what, Simmons is a true difference maker. His athletic profile is basically a big, faster Julio Jones.

Simmons would also likely be the only front 7 player who could shadow Lamar Jackson.

I think the real problem is that history shows that the "jack of all trades" tends to still be the master of none. But from what I've seen, Simmons may very well be the exception that proves the rule.

Assuming, at least, that the DC is willing to do more than just line him up at WILL or nickel safety.

Then again, that still makes him two players.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news...rs-into-top-10/

If that draft happens I'll travel to Berea and show Berry the error of his ways.

JC

To me, this is run up and hand in the card if he's there at 10.

He won't be. There is NWIH he gets past Rhule in Carolina at 7.

If you want to move up, your only real trade partner is the Chargers @ 6. If they're not in love with Justin Herbert QB, they can get their much needed OL help at 10. They'd want your 2nd (41) and next years 2nd. You won't pick again til #74.

That's really the only way I see him being a Brown.

Wouldja?

No doubt. The only way we might fix it this year is to sign 2 starting quality offensive linemen in FA to fix the line, but the reality is we probably only sign 1. But if we did, we could concentrate on defensive players in the draft because we have holes at the three defensive units on the field.

Herbert is usually mentioned as a top 9 qb selection. Lots of buzz on Jordon Love. He might go up there.

I’ve seen Love’s name creep up too. Likely a top 10 pick. So that means Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love could all be top 10 picks. Excellent

That is the scenario I was talking about that might lead to Simmons falling to 10.

Sign a tackle(s) in free agency.

Do what you can to move up and draft Simmons.

That would be a pretty good start to next year.

If Simmons is there then it is a slam dunk for me at 10 even if we had to roll the dice with a Peart, Niang or Cleveland at tackle in the 2nd.

This is a copy of that CBS mock that was driving me nutso.. We take Jedrick Wills and 2 fornicating picks later the Raidaz take Simmons??

NOTE** Jordan Love creeps up there..


Cincy
Joe Burrow QB

Washington
Chase Young EDGE

Miami
Mock Trade from Detroit Lions
Tua Tagovailoa QB

Giants
Mekhi Becton OL

Mock Trade from Miami Dolphins
Lions
Jeff Okudah CB

Chargers
Jordan Love QB

Carolina
Derrick Brown DL

Arizona
Tristan Wirfs OL

Jax
Javon Kinlaw DL

Browns
Jedrick Wills Jr. OL

NYJ
Andrew Thomas OL

Raiders
Isaiah Simmons LB

Jedrick Wills works for me.



He was my top OT pre-combine. Going back through now.

40: 4.39


What else did he do? Did he not run the 3 cone?


Malik Harrison had the best 3 cone time.....I love that kids potential at the next level. Yes a homer pick.

I’m good with Simmons, Wills, or Thomas at 10

I've got a feeling the following will be taken before #10: Burrow, Young, Tua, Becton, Okudah, Herbert/Love, Simmons, Wirfs, Wills.

What do you do? Thomas, D. Brown, Kinlaw, trade back????

Depends on what people are offering to trade back.

I hope Brown and/or Kinlaw go top 9.

I might have to consider Chaisson. I still need to actually watch his film, though. Just looking at big boards, positional value, and considering Vernon's towards the end of his deal. Plus, Woods had some fierce pass rushes on his recent Defenses.

I’d go Thomas there

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/isaiah-simmons

He didn't run the 3 cone.

I agree with yours through the fist six picks.

1--Bengals
QB Joe Burrow

2--Redskins
DE Chase Young

3--Dolphins
(Mock Trade from Detroit Lions)
QB Tua Tagovailoa

4--Giants
OT Mekhi Becton

5--Lions
(Mock Trade from Miami Dolphins)
CB Jeff Okudah

6--Chargers
QB Jordan Love (choice)

7--Panthers
LB Isaiah Simmons (his Draft floor imo)

8--Cardinals
OT Jedrick Wills Jr.

9--Jaguars
DT Derrick Brown

10-->Browns
OT Tristan Wirfs

Wires was impressive. I just think it might be worth extra for Simmons. Speed kills. We need impact players for tackles and a safety. Simmons seems able with speed and experience in college to be able too check a number of boxes.

Realistically he should not make it past the Giants, but the Giants are a different breed come Draft day.

I am ok with Simmons, Wirfs, or Becton