DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agency

To be fair, those rumors about JD not working well with others were not just from here, it started in KC with reports.

So there has been a past to that claim.

Does it warrant him being let go - maybe, maybe not.

But your saying based on Albrights reports something indicated others were hard to get away with, the reports that have followed JD his career also indicate that, more so.

Scheme, playcall, etc could all have a factor in covering TE's which is what I think you meant.

Running a 4-2-4 is not exactly ideal for that, IMO. Chances are a CB or safety is on a TE, especially if we are rushing a LB.

You also have to look at the league, covering TE's are a problem for everyone at times. Some guys are just too big and too fast.

With Williams, we blitzed all day everyday. Gave the QB a quick dump off to a TE, or let one run up the seem unchecked and uncovered.

Only having ten guys on defense would obviously not be ideal.

Next time u wanna take a shot at Vers ... how about u don’t do it like a wuss and address him directly ... I’d rather not be the conduit for your bull crap ...

I asked the man an honest question about football hoping I’d learn and maybe we’d have a non agenda topic for at least a few posts and u take a shot at him hiding behind it ... nice ..

Thanks for the reply ....

A 4-2-4 ... huh .... guess i overrated your math Joe ... *LOL* ...

U left the door too wide open on that one bro ... i had to walk through it and you’d be disappointed in me if i didn’t ...

I was thinking scheme might be a big part ... i asked cause i have no clue why .... i was looking at the scheme thing from the angle of Wilkes zone may have played a part ... but now that I’ve typed it that’s very menZaesque thinking ... *L* ..

Will be interested to see what Vers says ...

Took a shot at Vers? I was pulling your leg for accidentally saying Joe covered LBers instead of TEs.

I replied to you because I was "aiming" at you. I put it in purple because it was supposed to be a joke. Just a silly ribbing. Man some people are sensitive.

oooops ... any chance u can help me get my foot out of my mouth ...

Sorry about that ...

I misspelled menZa the other day ... I’m on a roll ... *L* ...

Sorry about that Bull ...

You're welcome and thanks for the compliment.

I don't feel qualified to answer your question. Player salaries and the cap are not my specialty.

Also, if you have noticed, I haven't blamed either Dorsey or Berry. The reason why I haven't is that I don't know all of the details in regards to what either would pay or what Joe's agent is asking for.

Hopefully, the two sides can work something out. Joe is not the kind of player you want to lose.

The Browns have struggled overall at covering TE's. But, we are in zone a lot. We also have asked other guys to cover TEs. Joe does cover them and has been beat at times. But, he did lead the league in fewest yards allowed after a catch by a LBer. That tells me his coverage is tight.

Some people are taking a lot of liberties when evaluating Joe. I think we both know why.

I went back and watched every game we played last season over the last week or so focusing on Joe. I compared him to the LBs on the opposing teams because it's easier to watch the condensed versions of games on the xbox NFL app through gamepass than it is to go through the coaches' tape and just watch plays he's in due to lousy controls.

It looks like you're just throwing made up stats out there without links.

Nothing I've been able to find about Joe's coverage mentions YAC:
link 1
Link 2
Link 3

Those do show low numbers (not YAC), but to me after watching the games, it looks like Joe not being targeted is more because we had other players worse in coverage than it is about Joe being great. The number of flat out blown coverages is bad, with many of those involving poor communication between Joe and a safety. CBs and safeties also had issues. Those issues got much worse once Redwine started seeing more snaps and Randall went AWOL.

I'm fine with both of them not signing Joe for the money he wants. It's the blaming Berry but not Dorsey for not signing him that bothers me. At least be consistent, not you in particular, Vers.

Stats are for losers is a silly statement. However, Stats without context really don't tell you a whole lot.

Any more I feel like your agenda is just to disagree with me, in Sonny Weaver style, no matter what.

Berry has that say now. Dorsey did last year.


Depo was a part of the group who signed the guy. So was Berry.



Depo is in your head. Heck, he owns you.

Deep State Depo runs everything, Mac. You might be on to something. Depo controls the Russians. Depo knows who killed Kennedy. Depo knows where Jimmy Hoffa was disposed.

Depo probably developed and released Covid-19.

j/c:

Not sure when these are from, but if anyone is interested:









Also Diam, there is this in reference to your earlier question about Joe's coverage.

The job of the Browns FO is to improve the roster for next year. They don't want to pay Schobert, fine. Get someone who is better at the position. I do not want to hear about cap space or building for the future. Sign Schoebert or get someone who is better than him to step in this coming season. No excuses. Win now. I am in show me mode rather than talking points mode.

Apparently sometimes I can't read. Thanks for the link.

I still don't think the numbers tell the whole story.

I might have to break down and get full PFF access, so I don't have to look so hard for the numbers.

I'll still want to see how they translate to the tape, but at least they'll all be there in one place hopefully.

I think losing Joe would be a loss. He’s our QB on D. Maybe we can’t afford him, but if he goes our D gets weaker.

Who’s going to replace him? Mack Wilson? Is he a sure thing?
“No” is the answer to that query.

I won't post the list because it is way, way too long. However, all of these guys were apparently not re-signed during the season and are free agents.

Man, "Dorsey dropped the ball!" LOL

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2020-nfl-free-agent-tracker-015543012.html

We can definitely afford Schobert. Heck, we paid almost $10 million to a guy who has only played a handful of games. Cut Kirksey, re-sign Schobert, move on to the nexy problem.

I think going back and forth about Show not being re-signed is a waste of time... He's not suiting up in the Land anymore.

I think we should spend our time focusing on draft prospects who could come in and help solidify our LB group.

Totally agree. I could care less either way, but I agree with Berry, he isn't worth $10 million per.

So last year he had 133 tackles, combo of solo and assists, 7 tackles for loss, which is more than I thought he had, 2 Forced Fumbles, and 4 INTs and 2 sacks.

I think the Browns are a QB and TE away from being an elite Offense. Defense on the other hand is a different story. There are not very many positives on that side of the ball. Ward is awful, I thought Greedy was going to be better than he was, and he was not good, they have no safety, besides Mack Wilson, the LBs don't impact the game. DL is pretty solid.

The Browns are going to hit on their picks because until they start winning you will not be able to attract Free Agents to come here. Haslam's track record of non-stop losing lends itself to players just looking to get paid.

Top Free Agents Browns could use on Defense:

Anthony Harris S Vikings
Byron Jones CB Cowboys
Shaq Barrett OLB Buccaneers
Justin Simmons S Broncos
Corey Littleton LB Rams
Javon Hargrave DT Steelers
Dante Fowler Edge Rams
James Bradberry CB Panthers
Ha Ha Clinton Dix S Packers

Any Safety, DT, or LB help will be a good thing

Might be worth kicking the tires on Jason Spriggs. Can't say I have seen much of him in the pros (was behind some pretty good players in GB), but he seems to have fit what they want to do back when he was coming out in the draft. He's still only 25.

Dan Vitale might be a name to watch at FB. Or maybe Rod Smith.

I actually wouldn't be against bringing Corey Coleman back, but it'd be as a return man first and he'd be on a short leash.

Kamu Grugier-Hill might be a name to watch if we lose Schobert. Though his medical would have to check out.

Noah Spence might be worth a look, too. Our backup DEs didn't give much pass rush.

JASON PETERS
T, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the Eagles are expected to let LT Jason Peters hit the free agent market.

Peters has been with the Eagles since 2009. He's made nine Pro Bowls throughout his 16-year career and has started at least 13 games in all but three seasons. Age hardly appeared to be an issue in 2019, as Peters finished as PFF's No. 6 overall offensive tackle. Peters will be 39 next January, but figures to demand plenty of attention on the open market.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
Mar 5, 2020, 10:07 AM ET

It appears Mr. Smith has landed on his feet ...

CHRIS SMITH
DL, CAROLINA PANTHERS

Panthers signed DE Chris Smith to a one-year contract.

Cut by the Browns back in December nearly two years into a three-year, $14 million deal, Smith spent the rest of the season out of football after losing his girlfriend and mother of his young child in a car accident earlier in the season. The 28-year-old is from the Carolina area and will get a fresh start close to home.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter
Mar 4, 2020, 7:47 PM ET

j/c

I'm a little late to the recent Sho debate...but I'll always wonder what he would look like with two good, stout DTs in front of him.

Give me Jason Peters on a one year deal.

Berry might have some insight on him seeing he just came from there, good or bad.

Crazy that the Eagles are letting two tackles walk that are going to get great deals on the open market and they won't have any trouble replacing them. The amount of depth they have built on the offensive line is ridiculous. My guess is that we do the same.

I'm assuming they are going the Andre Dillard route.

And yes, I'd welcome some depth on the line. Both lines, in fact. That was not a focus of Dorsey's it felt like.

Very true. They had about 4 OTs that were better than any of ours

j/c:

I think Dorsey tried to make the DL better. He traded for Vernon and signed Richardson in FA.

One thing we never seem to mention about the OL. It was a big hit to the group when Joe Thomas retired. It's hard to replace a great LT. The OL did not perform as poorly as many say they did, but I admit that the unit is hurting right now because they need two tackles.

The other thing that folks might want to consider is how terrible the roster was. Dorsey improved many units in two years. No one can say w/any certainty that he would not have been very aggressive in trying to improve that unit this year.

Not only did Dorsey NOT improve the OL, he whiffed and weakened it. Trading Zeitler - and inserting a journeyman or rookie next to Hubbard - was an incredibly poor decision. We don't just need two tackles, we also need a RG. That's 3/5th of the unit...aka 60%

The Richardson signing turned out very good and the Vernon acquisition was a risk maybe worth taking...we will see. His contract is giant.

Other Dorsey DL moves included trading Danny Shelton and Ogbah...releasing Nassib...and backfilling with Bryan Cox Jr and Porter Gustin. Trading-for and later releasing D Lawrence and trading his drafted player in G Avery.

It appears that Doresy played the smartest-guy-in-the-room on the OL and DL and botched it up about as good/bad as a GM could.

He also acquired TJ Carrie for a ransom at the slot CB - he won't be back.

He traded for D Randall - he won't be back.

He gave away McCourty for a stale bag of peanuts.

I know it makes some people angry to read this, but Dorsey simply didn't do a good-enough job...especially with the tools he had at his disposal. Those who think he did good/great always quote "all that talent he brought in" but stop at Landry/OBJ and S Richardson...those who don't think he did a good job list out the actual players he got rid of and acquired...and that actual performance is quite less than good.

I’ll add in Hunt as well to that list.

Randall was good, but a head case. Vernon was good in thought, but didn’t impact us enough IMO. Our lack of OT and TE play really hurt our O i think

I really hope we manage to get everything ironed out with Randall. I've watched too many past Browns defenses get absolutely demolished mostly due to a gaping hole at FS. It's hard to find good ones.

I bet you could make the argument that he's more important to hang on to than Joe.

It's important that we get a safety. I'm fine with, leaning towards preferring, it if it's not Randall.

Hmmmm... there's a whole lotta guys all over the league not re-signed, there were very few reports of contract extensions during the season, and there is voting on a new CBA about to happen.

Gee, I wonder if all of that could be related, folks?

I don't trust the Browns to find a different, competent FS in a timely manner.

Why do you prefer not to bring back Randall? Was it attitude or play on the field? Without knowing your answer, I'll just throw out there that several of our key players experienced issues with one or both of those this past year, and that has been attributed to the outgoing coaching staff.

I’ll chime in ... I think he’s gone, mostly due to attitude and lack of accountability. Tough to throw a lot of guaranteed money at someone that flakey