DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season 2020 NFL Draft Isaiah Simmons

Yeah, it sure seems like the Giants are stuck in the Dark Ages.

My concern is are they really stud OTs? Or do we think so because it's a down year for Edge players outside of Chase Young?

I'm not saying they are bad, but they might not be especially battle tested. They maybe didn't face competition particularly capable of exposing their flaws.

I'm ready to see how it plays out.

(I'm not trying to make bold declarations one way or the other, just trying to examine all the possible angles)

I'm on board with Simmons if he's there. I think he's more safety/big nickle than LB, though.

Yup. No matter what personnel the opponent trots out, we could slide him around and takeaway any matchup/mismatch they were trying to exploit.

That sort of player plus guys like Ward on the back end gives a defense a LOT of flexibilty.

I guess I could say is why is a top LT available at #10?

My answer on Simmons is he won't be there at 10, and if he is, you jump on that in a hurry a hunt for another LT. Jump back in to the last part of round 1 if necessary and grab Cleveland or the kid from USC.

Face it, if there is a run on LT's, say 3 are drafted before us, we are going to be selecting the 4th best LT in the draft....at least according to 3 other teams.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to be drafting the 4th best anything with the 10th pick in the first round. That is a total reach IMO unless that 4th best LT grades out better players still on the board.

I have a feeling we have one LT in mind at 10. If he is there, we take him. If he isn't there we go D with that pick, and trade up to grab Cleveland near the bottom of the round.

We do have other needs on the team. I would sign Peters to a 2 year deal, front loaded and pluck a LT in round 2 so he could sit and learn behind Peters for a season or two.

Round 1, give the D some love. Javon Kinlaw would look great in our uniform. That guy has pro bowl written all over him.

I'd be okay with this plan if our OT is gone at 10. I'd do it for Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw, or Jeffrey Okudah if our LT of choice isn't available. I might do it even if he was available. Jason Peters (or Trent Williams) could man our LT very well for the short term. You'd have to trade draft capital to get Williams, but he has a longer window than Peters.

How big of a contract do Williams and Peters require?

Do we really want to invest that much money into our O-Line? That's one of the reasons a rookie LT makes sense. Because we have serious contracts with Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin.

I think so.

From what i've seen of Ezra Cleveland, he doesn't impress me that much. He's going to get pushed around by the big boys in the NFL.

Williams will probably need a $16-18M per year contract, but he is 6 years younger than Peters and many believe he's a top 5 LT, and maybe the best. Peters made $6M last year with the Eagles, so its hard to imagine him getting much more than that now that he's a year older (38 or 39).

He's next on my guys to really watch.


I've really keyed in on five tackles at this point. Seen a little of Austin Jackson. So far, the top four are much better than the bottom two (Cleveland and Jackson).



I'm not getting the Cleveland stuff. It's clear he's a good athlete. He's quick with good feet, but i just don't think he's a particularly good tackle. Certainly not the one i want to bet on being able to protect Baker next year.

He just seems, soft. Not a bookend LT that's going to anchor the line for years to come

I notice you haven't been an active participant on the OL thread in the PFF. If a guy is quick and has good feet at the LT, why are you saying he isn't a particularly good LT?

I haven't studied the guy, so I am not defending him. I just don't get your analysis.

Had a quickie look to see what I can find on JJ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywIfVIGSyyk

If being quick and having good feet is all it took to be a good LT, wouldn't LT's generally all be TE's.


My issue with the guy is that he just seems to get pushed around too much. I don't see much power at all. I feel that with NFL competition, he's going to get tossed around. Susceptible to power moves and such.


Now, i have no clue what his combine stats were. Haven't looked at any of their combine stats. Just going off of how i felt watching his tape.


I'm not going so far as comparing him to this Bruce Campbell guy. Didn't even remember who he was, looked him up and saw he was a total bust. I just think he's a significant step down from the other four. I don't see what i see with Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, or Becton. Not at all.



EDIT: And i've lurked in the OLine thread a bit, just haven't posted that i can remember. I'm only active on a few threads because i'm pretty busy lately. I've become a stay-at-home dad while my wife works from home and daycare is closed. Turns out that's as much work as my actual job

I wasn't being confrontational. I was simply asking for clarification.

Oh, absolutely. Didn't think you were. I'm not being confrontational either.

No worries.

We're getting much closer to being on the same page.

I am shocked if Simmons is there, but I don't need all these pre-qualifying conditions to pick him over a tackle. I like three, not four, of the most mentioned tackles. MY real quandary is how far up I would trade for a solid left tackle and Simmons. That pair would make for a greatly successful draft for me.

I doubt that Simmons get past Carolina at #7...

I agree.

Whose Carolinas tackles?

traded for Okung

If that was to me ... whose there other one? .. or wouldn’t they consider a RT at #7?

That was for you and I would think they would consider Wirfs and/or Wills as well as D. Brown and Simmons at #7.

The other is 23 year old Dennis Daley.

He will be 33 this year and he is on the last year of his contract so if a LT is there that they like I could easily see them taking one.

I thought we would need to move up to at least 7. That might scramble a few boards, I suspect. Simmons AND a LT would be a great draft IMO.

Simmons and the right LT, yes. Simmons and the wrong LT, not so much. I'm sure you were implying the right LT part.

We need an LT that won't get Baker/Chubb killed in the backfield consistently.

It would be nice to get both.

To note, though.... while it would be great if we got the 2nd coming of Joe Thomas, it's perfectly acceptable to get a guy that will simply be a solid starting LT for the next 8-10 years. That would still be the right LT.

Yeah, we just need an above average OT at 10. Which is why I want Thomas .. he’s probably the safest plug and play

I agree. LT as becoming less and less important. Defenses move players around. The QB position is changing.

Face it, and this is just a general impression, I have no researched data, but Joe T, as good as it gets at the position probably experienced the fewest wins of any HOF type LT.

It shows that LT's don't win many games for you. As you said, we don't need a HOF player out there, we had that to no avail. You just need somebody decent enough to help the players who do win games.

Good is all you need on the O line. You don't need the best. You just need good. Olinemen are like brick layers. Nothing fancy. They don't get much credit when the wall they put up stands up, but get crap if it falls down.

It is what it is.

Exactly what I thought was obvious, but yes, totally. If we had to spend some of later picks or a few lower future picks, all to get these two key things realized, the I would not care too much about the balance of the draft. I say this while acknowledging that there are no guarantees, but also positing that you get as right as you can on paper and go play some ball.

We aren't in a hand-wringing state with a ton of holes to fill as we have been in years past. We need the best we can manage while taking advantage of exceptional opportunities if they show up. I think IS may be one of those.

Go, Browns. Gonna watch DraftDay again today. Maybe put it on a loop until Thursday. <G>

Stay safe, dawgs!

The pay scale at the LT position does not support your theory.

Give it time.


I knew you would say that. That is about all you say on the matter.

I think ahead. I don' think 20 years ago.

I look at numbers from today, not 20 years ago. Physics doesn't change over time. The most devastating hit a person can take is the one he can't see coming. Time doesn't change that and the NFL understands that. The most important player to your franchise is the QB. It's actually quite basic.