I read an article in a local paper a few days after the video came out.
It said from the police report at the time of the shooting, the older McMichael saw a black man running in the neighborhood that looked like the same man (don't know if they had a video camera) that was involved in a wave of burglaries and the thought that Arbery was targeting the neighborhood. He called his son and they went out in the truck and they said something to Arbery and that is when the shooting happened. I can't remember exactly what was said, I will try to find it if i can.
So the reporter went back through the last almost 2 months of police reports of the neighborhood to check out how many houses had been broken into-there were no houses broken into. The only theft in that area that happened was that McMichael had a gun stolen out of his vehicle in an unlocked truck on New Years day.
It never said anything about them seeing him in the home construction site. Now the owner of the home being constructed says he will probably never move into the waterfront home and has been receiving death threats. The homeowner never gave the video to McMichaels before the shooting and one of the McMichaels came to the house after the shooting asking for the video and the homeowner told them the don't have it they turned it over to the police.
A motion activated camera at the home construction site a few times picked up motion of a person in the yard but never picked up somebody in the house until that day and they never were burglarized nor did they speak to either McMichael in the last several months only talking to one of them when they first started construction of their house in mid 2019
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.
This 43 minute video will tell you truth, it uses all the official investigations and factual proof of this case...its not what the news is telling you. If your against anti-intellectualism then put your money where your mouth is, put aside your racial bias, and listen to some unbiased truth.
Ask yourself a question? Is this profile of a "good kid" Does this sound like a guy out on a jog? Why is a jogger wearing work boots? Why wasn't this guy locked up in prison already as this is obviously a high level felony. In what world does someone 19 years old bringing a loaded gun to a school possibly get probation and be allowed to walk the streets in the 1st place. This man was obviously dangerous...good people don't bring loaded guns to a school or school event illegally.
So to save myself time - would I be correct in thinking this OP was total and utter B.S ? Looks like, smells like ... the last post before mine seems to prove that.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
^ It's an 18-min video, which is a bit long, but he goes into heavy detail about Georgia's trespassing, burglary and citizen arrest requirements. It's an informative watch on what we know right now.
Also, no race baiting in the video.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
People walking into those houses (unoccupied and unfinished they may be) is weird. I would assume someone is looking to steal wiring (right or wrong or whatever... that's the first thing I would think). edit: I'm not arguing against the video here... just voicing my own opinion.
I hope KoB's head explodes when he watches the video's explanation that Arbery wasn't actually trespassing.
Last edited by oobernoober; 05/13/2010:25 AM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I have a very different viewpoint. My 1st thought is that is something I might do. My neighbors are building a house and I am out for a run, I might take a minute or two to poke my head in and take a peak at it out of curiosity.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Having been in the construction field for 30 years I'm often more interested in looking at the quality of the build and the quality of the material being used. The devil is often times in the details. I've never considered that something worthy of being confronted by some random guy with a gun for.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I just meant that as a sidebar comment. Didn't mean that statement to be applied in any way to the Arbery situation.
I also enjoyed watching that guy break down the legalese leading up to the killing. I hope those guys get charged. It was encouraging when the video pointed out that there is risk to attempting a citizens arrest. You gotta make sure you get it right and do it right. Much more to it (in terms of responsibility) than just pretending you're a cop in a movie for a little bit.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Larry English had long dreamed of owning a waterfront home. It was on his bucket list. He wanted easy access to fish and boat and a peaceful distraction from the stress of his heart-related illness.
His dream home is under construction in Brunswick, Georgia. But English said it is unlikely that he and his family will ever move in once it is complete.
"Now, it's honestly not safe," said his attorney, Elizabeth Graddy. "It's supposed to be a place for comfort and peace. And now, it will be forever associated with this tragedy."
English, 50, owns the house that Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, is purported to have entered before he was shot and killed on Feb. 23 by two white men.
Gregory McMichael, 64, and Travis McMichael, 34, were arrested and charged Thursday with murder and aggravated assault -- two days after a graphic video of the shooting became public. The video thrust the case into the national spotlight, prompting widespread outrage and raising concerns about why it took law enforcement officials more than two months to make arrests.
English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client. She said English and his wife are "heartsick" for Arbery's parents.
Video from the day of Arbery's death, obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, shows a black man wearing a T-shirt and shorts walking up to a house under construction, entering and then leaving shortly after. Lawyers representing Arbery's family said in a statement Saturday that the security camera video proves Arbery did nothing wrong.
"Ahmaud did not take anything from the construction site," the family's lawyers said in a statement. "He did not cause any damage to the property. He remained for a brief period of time and was not instructed by anyone to leave but rather left on his own accord to continue his jog. Ahmaud's actions at this empty home under construction were in no way a felony under Georgia law."
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said it was reviewing the video but added that it had seen it before arresting and charging Gregory and Travis McMichael. The McMichaels could not be reached for comment.
Graddy said her client wants to "correct the mistaken impression" that English had shared the video or any other information about what had occurred at the property with the McMichaels before the shooting or at all. English had only briefly met the younger McMichael once in 2019, when he went to the construction site to introduce himself, Graddy said.
English, a beekeeper, said he was working in Douglas, about 90 miles from Brunswick, where he lives with his wife and two children, on Feb. 23, unaware of the tragedy that was unfolding.
English got an alert on his phone that a video had been taken at the construction site, Graddy said. "He worked for another 20 minutes and then washed up," she said.
After he watched the video in the alert, he called a neighbor and learned that Arbery had been killed that day, Graddy said. English gave the video to Glynn County police soon after the shooting, Graddy said.
In the months before February, a motion-activated camera had captured videos of someone inside the construction site a handful of times, Graddy said. The first time, English called a non-emergency police number and reported the unauthorized entry, Graddy said.
"He never used the word 'burglary,'" she said, adding that nothing has ever been stolen from or damaged at the property. "My client did not want people to come on to the property because it's just not safe."
English never shared any of this information with the McMichaels, whom he did not even know, according to his attorney.
"Even if there had been a robbery, however, the English family would not have wanted a vigilante response," Graddy said. "They would have entrusted the matter to law enforcement authorities."
Arbery's family says he was out jogging, while the McMichaels have said they thought he was a burglar, according to the Glynn County police report. Gregory McMichael armed himself with a .357 Magnum and his son grabbed a shotgun after Gregory McMichael saw Arbery "hauling ass" down the street, the police report said. A third man, later identified as William Bryan, a neighbor, tried to block Arbery during the pursuit, according to the police report.
Gregory McMichael told police that he thought Arbery was a burglar who had recently been targeting the neighborhood. The McMichaels told police that when they caught up with Arbery, he attacked Travis McMichael, who fired his weapon in self-defense.
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The Brunswick News, citing documents obtained through a public records request, reported that there had been just one confirmed burglary in the neighborhood from Jan. 1 to Feb. 23: the theft of a handgun from an unlocked truck parked outside Travis McMichael's house on Jan. 1.
Graddy, a native of South Georgia, said she emailed a letter last Wednesday to Thomas Durden, one of the prosecutors who had been assigned the case, asking why the McMichaels had not been arrested. The email went unanswered, she said. Durden could not immediately be reached for comment Tuesday at numbers listed for him.
English would visit the construction site regularly to check on the progress of the home. Graddy said that once, about two weeks ago, Gregory McMichael approached English at the site and inquired about obtaining surveillance videos. She said English did not entertain Gregory McMichael.
"My clients were not part of what the McMichaels told themselves to do," Graddy said.
"If the McMichaels are going to justify what they did, they are going to have to look elsewhere for help," she said.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Agreed, I have popped into many construction sites just to look around, see how they did things, what the layout is, maybe inspire a home project.
+1
I've done this dozens of times myself in the burbs in various eras of my life. Also, when we moved into our new construction high rise condo ~15 years ago, the upper floors weren't finished, so I walked in every single floor plan and see their view.
Heck, my parents used to do this all the time before they designed and built their house.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
I guess I can understand why someone would want to. I would just feel weird walking into a home (or what will be a home) that wasn't mine and w/o the owner's permission. I also wasn't aware this was a "thing" prior to the dude in the video pointing it out.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I guess I can understand why someone would want to. I would just feel weird walking into a home (or what will be a home) that wasn't mine and w/o the owner's permission. I also wasn't aware this was a "thing" prior to the dude in the video pointing it out.
Now granted, if the doors and windows are installed and the home is closed up, then I would not enter.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but my understanding is that this is MUCH more clear-cut than Trayvon Martin.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I had not studied this case the first time I posted. I just said that KOB's stance about Anti-Intellectualism was wrong because his evidence was based on a 43 minute video.
I have looked into the case a bit and will freely admit that I am no expert on it, but it seems to me that this was murder.
I don't know if I buy that the dude was just checking out the construction of the house...LOL...........but, no way in hell did he deserve to be chased down and murdered. I think the one dude was crazed because his gun was stolen and was hell-bent on extracting vengeance.
If those two are guilty, and it looks like they are, I hope they are prosecuted severely.
Btw.............I saw this video of a white dude running down the street w/a TV on his shoulder. He did it to prove a point and he was right. No one chased him down and/or shot him.
Enough is enough.
I probably should not add this, but I am going to anyway because I can't forget all the black dudes I was bros w/back in the day. One of the reasons I started the Smooth Soul thread in EE was because I knew so many blacks during that time period and almost all of them just wanted to be accepted. They hated being looked at like they were stealing, dealing, about to rape, murder, plunder, pillage, etc. They just wanted to be men.
That s... used to eat at me and it bothered me that these brothers just wanted a fair shake. No handouts. No shortcuts. Just treat them like men. The music of that time expressed that sentiment. I was hoping to introduce it into that particular thread, but it never got off the ground. But yo...........watch some of those old videos of black groups from the 60s and 70s and tell me you can't see that they are just trying to be recognized as equal.
It breaks my heart that many of those dudes suffered in vain and do not get the recognition they deserve.
Everytime I see a case like this, I'm reminded of these words by MLK:
"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."
We need to stomp this kind of ugliness out of existence in our country.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/13/2009:40 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
That's a powerful statement, and I'm not arguing its validity. I read it in the same way as that Biblical verse/summary about the sin of good people not acting/accepting sin/bad things happening.
But increasingly it seems that the application of that phrase is used more to erode the investigative process, and to get at the truth. If you're not on board with the outrage from the start, then you're clearly against justice. I doubt that's the case here, but I'm speaking more in general. People seem to demand justice before they have the truth.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.
Travis Miller, a delivery driver in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, says a neighborhood's homeowners' association president blocked him into a gated community and demanded to know why he was there.
Miller captured the ordeal on Facebook Live, in a video that lasts for 37 minutes that has been watched more than 170,000 times.
The HOA official, who said his name was David Stewart, told Miller that he had called police on him after Miller refused to disclose customer information.
After the HOA official left, Miller said he was afraid to leave the gated community, telling police: "I didn't want to leave and have it seem like I was fleeing the scene or anything like that."
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A black delivery driver in Oklahoma City says a neighborhood's homeowners' association (HOA) president blocked him into the gated community and demanded to know why he was there and how he got in.
Travis Miller, a home appliance and furniture delivery driver, captured the ordeal on Facebook Live, in a video that's now been watched more than 170,000 times.
He told KFOR that he was making a delivery in the Ashford Hills neighborhood of Oklahoma City on Monday when a man claiming to be the president of homeowners' association blocked him from exiting the gated community with his car.
Video of the incident shows the man, self-identified as David Stewart, repeatedly asking Miller why he was in the gated community. The video shows that a white car had been parked in front of Miller's truck, so he couldn't drive forward.
Miller refused to tell Stewart who he dropped packages off to in the neighborhood, citing customer privacy.
About 30 minutes into the Facebook video, another man joined Stewart, and asked Miller: "All we want to know is why you're in here and who gave you the gate code. That's all we need to know."
Miller again told the men that he didn't want to share personal information of customers, and told Facebook viewers that the men had called the police. The police don't arrive during the video, but the Stewart eventually moved his vehicle out of Miller's way.
"I guess they must have contacted the customer and the customer came around and they spoke for a minute and he moved out the way," Miller can be heard saying in the video.
Miller then called police himself, telling dispatch what happened to him and making sure it was safe for him to leave the area.
"He said that he called the cops back and let them know that everything was clear but I didn't want to leave and have it seem like I was fleeing the scene or anything like that," Miller said.
'I knew if I get out this truck, no matter what happened, I would have been in the wrong'
Miller told KOCO that the person he delivered items to had given him the key code for the gated community, and that when Stewart approached him, he kept his seatbelt on the entire time, locked his doors, and tried keeping his window up.
"I knew if I get out this truck, no matter what happened, I would have been in the wrong," Miller told KOCO. "I always say to myself, 'I'm going to go home to my wife and my kids.'"
The incident happened in the wake outrage over the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man who was gunned down while jogging in Georgia in February, and the death of Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was killed in a police shooting Kentucky in March.
Miller has received an outpouring of support online since his video went live. He told KOFR that he didn't know why Stewart responded in the way that he did.
"I just know that emotionally, it was hard to maintain restraint, especially when I'm dealing with death in the family, two family members within two days of each other," Miller said. "I just did the best I could to not make a bad situation worse."
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.
I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.
I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.
Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.
That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.
I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.
While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.
Appreciate the reply. I am a good bit younger than you are.Was a teenager in the mid 80's. So I never saw that in your face racism personally. Partly because of the decades I grew up in and partly because of the neighborhood I grew up in. My grade school was 100% white. Only about 6-10 non whites in my HS. I was good friends with a couple of them.
Not sure what made me the way I am but I never saw them as being any different. Still don't. The other day (more like a year or so ago) someone pointed out that one of the Physician Assistants on the Cardiothoracic surgery team was black. I was like, hmm, guess he is.
Because I am the way I am, I don't get the whole racism thing. It just doesn't make any sense to me. If the dude is a good dude, I'll hang with him. If he's a jerk-off, I avoid him. But color, race, religion, sexual orientation? It's all good to me.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?
Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-7-21
(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;
So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?
He is certainly guilty of Criminal Treaspassing at the least which is a crime, a crime that started this whole chain of events. I think these guys would have chased him down regardless of his race.
Mr. McMicheal was also the guy that investigated Mr. Arbery for bringing that gun into that school a few years back. Thats not something you would easily forget, so its safe to assume Mr. McMicheal recognized him, was obviously aware of his gun/violent criminal record, and saw him as dangerous, and thus, pursued him with guns.
I think these guys end up with Manslaughter at worst, but the prosecution has a huge hill to crime.
All the defense has to do is show proper cause for suspected burglary, and provide evidence that the McMicheals never laid a finger on Arbery until he attacked Travis. Having guns in plain view is legal in Georgia, and following someone in a truck is legal too. Even when they were stopped in the road, had Mr. Arbery just kept running, he would be alive right now.
the coroners report says the wounds Arbery suffered are consistent with accidental discharges from Arbery pulling on the shotgun. That video never shows Mr. McMicheal actually pulling the trigger shooting him it shows two men struggling over a gun and it going off. Accidents can NOT be murder under the law, so there goes the murder charge right there. Then the question comes down to is it manslaughter or is it self defense. The entire case hinges on the fact that neither of the McMicheals ever touched him, and done nothing illegal prior to the fight over the gun.
The defense has far more, but the more videos they release, the better the defenses case becomes. The prosecution has a huge mountain to climb to get a murder rap, and I just don't see it happening regardless of race or anything else.
I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?
Ahhh - you are probably right. And for those without common courtesy I say death is too good for them.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.
I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?
Ahhh - you are probably right. And for those without common courtesy I say death is too good for them.
Give me a Break! I am NOT condoning these two guys for shooting him. I have stated numerous times they could have handled this situation differently. the only things I did state was Georgia law will make it VERY hard to get a murder conviction in this case simply because of how the laws are written. Nothign racist about that.
I do think the prosecution has a GREAT case for Involuntary Manslaughter:
Quote:
Georgia Code TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE § 16-5-3 - Involuntary manslaughter
(a) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so by the commission of an unlawful act other than a felony. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years.
(b) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so, by the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.
The key factor here being was it lawful under the Citizen Arrest law to detain him, if so then these guys are guilty of misdeamanor manslaughter as they caused the death of person unlawfully while committing a lawful act. If they are deemed to not have been acting lawfully under the citizen arrest law, they wilkl be facing felony manslaughter which carries up to 10 years in prison. I think the prosecution has a great case here and is what they should pursue it pretty much ensure they nail them with something. Murder will be very hard to prove with the way the laws are in Georgia.
[quote=Knight_Of_Brown]This isn't a case of racism.
I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?
Lastly, let me tell you a story about me.
When i was 19, a buddy of mine took me to this new farm pond he says he had been fishing in. Told me he had permission, so we go there. We were there maybe a half hour and all of a sudden I hear BANG!!!!! and a bullet whizzing over my head. Then I hear it a second time, and We took off out of there in a hurry. I actually jumped a cow fence completely, be surprised how fast you can run when someone is shooting at you.
On the way home, I find out idiot didn't have permission to fish in that pond and I was FURIOUS! I am a white man, and I am lucky I didn't get shot that day. He shot at us numerous times...this is what happens when you treapass on other folks property. This isn't a race thing..I am white and was shot at numerous times with what my hearing tells me was a .30-06 rifle. I never went back there that's for sure.
Why am I telling you this? Because Treaspassing is illegal for a reason. Its illegal because some people are VERY territorial and don't want other people on their property, and this nation has a history of people being shot for trespassing. So rather than stacking bodies, the government made it illegal to trespass to "deter people" for putting themselves in situations where they may be shot by an overprotective landowner.
This doesn't excuse the landowner from a crime, but the trespassing law is there to keep people off other peoples property without permission so things like what happened to Mr. Arbery don't happen.
Mr. Arbery committed a crime. Regardless of how small of insignificant you think the crime is, had he not walked into that construction site and trespassed this whole thing would not have happened at all, so don't act like Mr. Arbery is blameless here. I am not saying Mr. Arbery deserved to be shot for trespassing, but being shot for trespassing isn't an uncommon thing in American history...its the reason trespassing is illegal in the 1st place.
So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?
We'll never know what "lawful" purpose he entered that property for, because he was shot and killed. Anyway, it isn't up to him to prove. You'd have to prove that he was there for an UNlawful purpose according to that law. Since it was proven that he didn't steal anything or destroy/damage property, he wasn't guilty of anything the way that law was written.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.
And you sir are part of why it will never get better. The blind can't see so they act as though it doesn't exist. It does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.
I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.
I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.
Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.
That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.
I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.
While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.
It's not that I don't believe you. I do. I just wonder if racism was always worse than you/we thought, but we just didn't hear about it as much. Kinda similar to COVID infection rate with limited testing (to compare to another hot topic).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Viral video of the shooting of unarmed Georgia jogger Ahmaud Arbery was first leaked to the press at the request of the dad now accused of his murder — because he thought it would make him and his son look better.
The ironic shocker — that it was ex-cop Gregory McMichael who leaked the very video that would expose the Arbery shooting to the world, leading to father-son murder charges — was reported Friday by WSB-TV in Atlanta.
I have a very different viewpoint. My 1st thought is that is something I might do. My neighbors are building a house and I am out for a run, I might take a minute or two to poke my head in and take a peak at it out of curiosity.
I live in a new neighborhood that has tons of construction going on... this is a common occurence in my neighborhood... I guess the biggest difference is most of the homes around me are brand new... but while my house was being built my wife and I frequently walked into the other houses being built around us... mainly out of curiosity to see what the floor plan was like, how far along they were, and what finishings they choose...
this whole situation is deplorable... as others have said... even if Arbery stole something he did not deserve to be shot on the street by those two idiots...
[quote=Knight_Of_Brown]This isn't a case of racism.
I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?
Lastly, let me tell you a story about me.
When i was 19, a buddy of mine took me to this new farm pond he says he had been fishing in. Told me he had permission, so we go there. We were there maybe a half hour and all of a sudden I hear BANG!!!!! and a bullet whizzing over my head. Then I hear it a second time, and We took off out of there in a hurry. I actually jumped a cow fence completely, be surprised how fast you can run when someone is shooting at you.
On the way home, I find out idiot didn't have permission to fish in that pond and I was FURIOUS! I am a white man, and I am lucky I didn't get shot that day. He shot at us numerous times...this is what happens when you treapass on other folks property. This isn't a race thing..I am white and was shot at numerous times with what my hearing tells me was a .30-06 rifle. I never went back there that's for sure.
Why am I telling you this? Because Treaspassing is illegal for a reason. Its illegal because some people are VERY territorial and don't want other people on their property, and this nation has a history of people being shot for trespassing. So rather than stacking bodies, the government made it illegal to trespass to "deter people" for putting themselves in situations where they may be shot by an overprotective landowner.
This doesn't excuse the landowner from a crime, but the trespassing law is there to keep people off other peoples property without permission so things like what happened to Mr. Arbery don't happen.
Mr. Arbery committed a crime. Regardless of how small of insignificant you think the crime is, had he not walked into that construction site and trespassed this whole thing would not have happened at all, so don't act like Mr. Arbery is blameless here. I am not saying Mr. Arbery deserved to be shot for trespassing, but being shot for trespassing isn't an uncommon thing in American history...its the reason trespassing is illegal in the 1st place.
The thing is, he wasn't shot by the homeowner. He was shot by 2 vigilantes who "thought" he was responsible for prior thefts with no evidence.
And a new construction site is a lot different than a home. If someone enters my home without permission, by all means I'll shoot if I feel I need to. If someone would enter a construction site that had no one in it at the time? No way he should be shot. If you see him, you offer a warning that he shouldn't be there, or you call the local police if you feel the need, but you don't run after the guy and shoot him over it. It's not like he had a truck backed up and was loading it. How much stuff could a guy on foot actually be stealing anyway (which he wasn't doing)?
And oddly, NOTHING had ever been stolen from that home. No burglaries had been reported in that neighborhood. Several people, including a white couple and children had entered that same construction site on the very same day and nothing was done to any of them.
Here is an article where the homeowner says nothing had ever been stolen from the site.
Georgia homeowner: Nothing stolen before Ahmaud Arbery was shot
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.
I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.
I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.
Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.
That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.
I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.
While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.
I agree man. Things are way better today.
The reality is racism will probably never not exist. You are always going to have a few crackheads out there looking for someone to blame for their failures.
Pretty much eliminating it is like turning a large ship. It doesn't happen quickly.
Each generation has become more tolerant. It takes the children to make the change, not the adults. They are already formed, so it happens in 20-25 year increments.
I look back, you see change every decade.
The 50's, white kids liked listening to Chuck Berry and Fats Domino and black kids liked Elvis.
The 60's, a time of turmoil, but MLK and the Kenndey's did make a difference.
The 70's you started seeing black people in commercials. "Julia" was a top TV program. A black woman, a nurse, raising her young child. Good show. Others followed...who didn't like Sanford and Son and a spawn off All in the Family, The Jeffersons. Who didn't like George and "Wheesie"
Roots had a big impact.
In the 70's, if you saw a black and white couple, it raised a few eyebrows on both sides.....by the late 80's or early 90's, it was like love is good, find it where you can get it.
We just had a black President in President Obama. Think about that. It's one thing if a congressperson or mayor gets elected out of a high population black community, but when you see it happening on the state and national level, you know things have changed. A lot of white folks had to vote for President Obama to make that happen.
It just takes time is my message. Don't allow a couple of redneck asshats who look as dumb as stumps to change things. Rioting in the streets doesn't help the cause.
That father...well, that was him and his hatred, but he should be ashamed he brought his kid in to that world.
And it does work both ways. I forget the guys name, he stole some cigars or something from a store, the white cop stopped him and he started talking big and tried to grab the cops gun reaching in to the car, well, what do you expect, you are going to get shot. No police officer is going to just let you reach for his gun. In most reasonable peoples minds, that is a deadly threat that needs to be dispatched, so don't protest against that.
Note...I am a old guy, I say black and white. No disrespect intended. It's just easier.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
And oddly, NOTHING had ever been stolen from that home. No burglaries had been reported in that neighborhood. Several people, including a white couple and children had entered that same construction site on the very same day and nothing was done to any of them.
Here is an article where the homeowner says nothing had ever been stolen from the site.
Georgia homeowner: Nothing stolen before Ahmaud Arbery was shot
You folks are completely missing the point. This has ZERO to do with Race, and calling these guys murderers is factitious at best.
1. The video NEVER shows Travis McMicheal pulling the trigger on that shotgun. What the videos DOES show is two men struggling over a shotgun and the gun going off, TWICE. That's the legal definition of an accident/negligent discharge. Accidents can not be murder under the law, so that alone tosses your murder conviction right there. Do you really think the legal defense team is stupid? They are really liking their position right now.
3. To be charged with Brandishing under Georgia Law, the gun must be POINTED at someone. The mere act of having gun, telling the person you have a gun, even showing them the gun is NOT brandishing, you must POINT the gun at the person. No where on that video does it show Travis McMicheal pointing that gun at Mr. Arbery before Mr. Arbery charged him and grabbed the shotgun. Again, the Defense is going to eat this alive. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-11/article-4/part-1/16-11-102/
4. Prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and grabbing a hold of the shotgun, the McMicheals had not committed any crime whatsoever. They were acting lawfully within Georgia law. The McMicheals never laid one finger on Mr. Arbery, they never pointed a gun directly at him, Its not a crime to follow someone in a truck, even if they have guns. Even Travis McMicheal getting out of the truck and standing there holding a shot gun (which I may point out Travis never pointed that gun directly at Mr Arbery)is also not a crime.
When you look at THE LAW and not the ignorant emotional BS people are putting into about race, THE LAW says Mr. Arbery was the aggressor, because he charged Travis McMicheal, grabbed a hold of his gun, attempted to take the gun from him(that Travis McMicheal never pointed at him) and assaulted him with two punches to the face while pulling on the firearm causing it to discharge twice killing him.
This is the reason the prosecution didn't pursue charges. It has NOTHING to do with race. there is no grand conspiracy nonsense that they tried to cover this up for race reasons. The prosecutor had 36 years of experience as prosecuting attorney. He had prosecuted over 100 murder cases, and helped with over 100 more. Himself and all his senior trial attorneys agreed that this was a case of self defense under Georgia Law and not murder because the McMicheals done NOTHING ILLEGAL prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and grabbing the gun.
These prosecutors know more than you do. They are legal experts. The prosecutors office had every reason to want to charge these guys for murder. They didn't do an extensive investigation for nothing. Do you have any idea how this case would help his re-election bid if he was able to prosecute it? You can tell from the coroners report they spent a great deal of time evaluating this case, meeting with police detectives numerous times.
I know its hard to swallow because of the emotion and race nonsense, but THE LAW says the McMicheal's did NOTHING illegal prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and trying to take his shotgun. Following him in a truck is not illegal, open carrying guns is not illegal, no brandishing because they never pointed a gun directly at Mr.Arbery, In this case two citizens were acting within their rights under the law and Mr. Arbery got scared, rightful or not, and charged a man holding a shotgun and tried to take it from him and the gun ended up going off twice killing him.
This textbook Self Defense, case closed. Good luck proving this was anything but self defense when the McMichael's never laid one finger on him and never broke any laws prior to Mr. Arbery charging him.
I don't like it anymore than any of you.
I think those laws in Georgia need to be changed I think that citizen arrest law needs to be repealed I think it should not be legal for normal citizens to chase down a suspected criminal suspect as I believe that is a job for the police. I think the Mcmicheals could have handled this much differently.
However, just because I don't agree with something doesn't make it illegal.
As I said, good luck proving this was anything but self defense. The law says otherwise, and the Defense is going to spell this out to the jury.
Guess what? Even if they convict them, that conviction is 99.9% certain to be overruled and tossed in Appeals Court because THE LAW says otherwise, and a jury doesn't get to make up the law as they see fit based on their emotions.
If this was two black men doing this to a white guy i'd feel the same. In fact it wouldn't even be a news story at all.
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