Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.
This 43 minute video will tell you truth, it uses all the official investigations and factual proof of this case...its not what the news is telling you. If your against anti-intellectualism then put your money where your mouth is, put aside your racial bias, and listen to some unbiased truth.
Ask yourself a question? Is this profile of a "good kid" Does this sound like a guy out on a jog? Why is a jogger wearing work boots? Why wasn't this guy locked up in prison already as this is obviously a high level felony. In what world does someone 19 years old bringing a loaded gun to a school possibly get probation and be allowed to walk the streets in the 1st place. This man was obviously dangerous...good people don't bring loaded guns to a school or school event illegally.
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.
This 43 minute video will tell you truth
One might surmise that using a 43 minute video as the the undisputed "truth" is the very definition of 'anti-intellectualism."
I was trying to provide an example of this when I used the football comparison on Clem's thread, but this is a great example of how folks have an opinion, find one source that supports that opinion, and then equates that to the "truth."
I don't know the truth in the Ahmaud Arbery case, but I can guarantee that folks on both sides will use one piece of evidence to support the "truth" that only exists in their biased minds.
Ok, so I am going to explain this as plainly as I can. I am prefacing this that race has nothing to do with this. I'd feel the same way regardless of what race Mr. Arbery or the McMicheals were.
So from District Attnorney Geroge E Barnhill we have the following:
First I am the current elected District Attorney for the Waycross Circuit, I have worked as a criminal prosecutor for some 36 years. As an Assistant District Attorney in Waycross and Brunswick , as Chief Assistant in Waycross for 20 years and served as the District Attorney the last 5 years ; I have been actively involved in over 100 murder cases and assisted other prosecutors with at least 100 more. I have no idea how many Aggravated Assault cases involving gunshots and wounds of all types; Plus I have attended countless schools, classes and seminars on criminal prosecution and criminal acts and evidence. Myself and one of my Senior Trial Attorneys have reviewed the evidence extensively and concur on all points.
Now Mr. Barnhill is a qualified Expert prosecutor, has served in this capacity for over 36 years, has prosecuted over 100 murder cases, assisted in prosecuting over 100 more, along with countless other crimes. Its fair to say Mr. Barnhill as an expert in Georgia Criminal Law.
Quote:
Second As to the case at hand: It is my professional belief the autopsy confirms what we had already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately at the scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 at the briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time. We do not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.
Now in his professional opinion along with the opinions of his Senior Trial Attorneys in his office, the state had no grounds to bring charges against the McMicheal's under Georgia Law. Furthermore, they had witness statements from people other than the McMicheal's confirming the sequence of events that lead to this tragedy.
Quote:
Third It appears Travis McMichael ,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/ telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal,
OCGA 17 -4 -60A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”
As seen in this new surveillance tape released yesterday which was filmed minutes before Arbery was shot, we see him ILLEGALLY entering a Home he has no business entering. This constitutes a crime. A felony in many juristictions. This constitutes 1st hand probable cause. Even if the home is under construction he still has no legal right entering the place, and its a crime for him to enter without permission. Do you let any Tom, Dick, or Harry just enter your home freely and walk around and do whatever they want? I don't think so.
The McMicheals and other neighbors saw Mr. Arbery enter that home illegally. At this point, the McMicheals were acting LAWFULLY under Georgia Law to pursue Mr. Arbery and to detain him until the authorities arrived. See OCGA 17 -4 -60 which I included above.
Quote:
Fourth It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had firearms being carried in an open fashion . The investigation shows neither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. Under Georgia Law this is legal open carry .
OCGA 16- 11- 126 Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without ta valid weapons carry license. (b ) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.”
The moment Mr. Arbery entered that residence, He gave the McMicheal's the legal authority to detain him. Furthermore, their carrying of firearms was perfectly LAWFUL under Georgia Law. The McMicheal's were acting LAWFULLY under the enacted laws of the State of Georgia. That is the only thing that matters in this case. Not race, not bias, not anything, simply the law and nothing more. Law can not be administered justly if emotion is allowed to poison the process. The prosecutors office has to approach every cases with solid basis in the law and this case does not meet those criteria.
Quote:
Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.
OCGA 16 - 3 - 21 Use of Force in Defense, once confronted with a deadly force situation an individual is allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves or others OCGA 16 - 3- 23 . 1Georgia' s No Duty to Retreat Law , an individual is not required to back away from or submit to an attack;
OCGA 16 - 3- 24 [b ] The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is no tjustified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
OCGA 16 - 3- 24 .2 A person properly and legally defending themselves is immune from prosecution
For the above and foregoing reasons, itis our conclusion there is insufficient probable cause to issue arrest warrants at this time. As to any further issues on whether to present this to a Glynn County Grand jury, that will have to wait for the next District Attorney s review . Please consider this an OPEN file until that decision is made and restrict the release of any information under Georgia Open Records Act requests.
Now we can see that the prosecutors office and the police done an extensive investigation into this case, and came to the conclusion that they did not have sufficent evidence to charge this case.
Furthermore, Mr. Arbery was shot in self defense because he attempted to wrestle a gun away from Mr. McMicheal and assaulted him and the gun went off killing Mr. Arbery. Mr. Arbery "was the aggressor" in this case because Mr. Arbery refused to comply with a lawful order of stopping and waiting for the police to arrive under Georgia Citizen Arrest Law. The order Mr. McMicheal gave Mr. Arbery to stop was LAWFUL and carried the full weight of the law of the state of Georgia. He refused and then proceeded to attack Mr. McMicheal who was acting lawfully, therefore this is a case of self defense.
Al Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to. Mr. McMicheal spent decades as an investigator for the prosecutors office, he was very familiar with the law, he knew it was lawful for him to pursue and detain Mr. Arbery after seeing him illegally enter that house. McMicheal was also the one who nailed Mr. Arbery at the age of 19 for bringing a loaded pistol to a high school basketball game. So the motive is there for Mr. Arbery to attack as he obviously recognized Mr. McMicheal as the man who prosecuted him, and he knew he was made and would be going to prison hence his refusal to comply.
Look, I don't like it anymore than anyone else that this young man got shot. In my opinion, the McMicheals should have stayed inside their truck and simply followed Mr. Arbery to where ever he going and then alerted police. However, that does not change the fact that the McMicheals were acting lawfully, they had the legal right to ask Mr. Arbery to stop & to detain him until police arrived, they had the legal right to carry weapons under Georgia Law, and Mr. Arbery attacked Mr. McMicheal during execution of a lawful citizen's arrest. This is self defense plain and simple.
The laws are set up for a reason. In this case, the law actually served its purpose by empowering citizens to detain a criminal until police arrived and defend themselves in the case such suspected criminal attacked them.
Folks are only being emotional about this because of race. When looking at the facts of this case, there is no way a jury can convict. To be frank, I don't even see a Grand Jury indicting.
Lastly, there is no conspiracy theory that they were trying to cover this up. Read the prosecutors letter, the case was to remain OPEN and it was to be reviewed at the next District Attorney Review by him and the rest of the prosecutors office. So it was still pending, the Coronavirus just held things up a bit.
We have to remove emotion when looking at things like this. Considering all the circumstances, the McMicheals were justified by the law, and Mr. Arbery refused to comply with a lawful citizens arrest order and proceeded to attack a man, the law says Mr. Arbery is the aggressor, and the law says Mr. McMicheal has the legal right to self defense.
A jury will come to the same conclusion if it gets that far.
Please understand IMO i think both of these guys should be charged with Manslaughter and do 10 years or so. However, that's not what the Georgia Law says and you can't convict someone on things that exist outside the scope of the law.
Even though this is a lawful situation, it still sucks all around for all parties involved.
Furthermore, I never searched for this video, it was forwarded to me by someone else. I didn't even know who this guy was so I didn't have some preconceived opinion. He sounded like he presenting a logical conversation with facts and asking questions, but I guess thats too inconvenient for you to even entertain observing isn't it?
If you don't want to watch it, fine, I typed up and provided links to the official investigation that was done on the case. If you would actually take the time to watch the video, you would see he says nothing of the sorts that is even remotely racist, what he does is present the official facts of the investigation in this case.
Everything is "racist" anymore. You can't have a logical discussion about anything anymore because everyone shouts racist.
My post and links above going over the offical evidence in the case isn't one bit racist, and under the law it paints a very bad picture of Mr. Arbery...but who am i fooling? the left on this board is not interest in the truth nor whats lawful they are only interest in pushing an agenda and hating Trump. Nothing else matters to them.
I think the justification used by the DA (as explained in your post) to NOT charge these two is a miscarriage of justice. Arbery plainly entered and under construction dwelling with a truck in the drive and left empty handed. He could have been looking for a drink of water, wanting to ask the workers for that or anything else (a business card, directions, etc.) would not have been against the law. Over the years I personally have had many strangers enter onto job sites like that. The last thing I would have thought to do is chase them down with a gun in hand. I don't buy into the good ole boy extensive investigation, but their lawyer can and will get a chance to run this past the judge or jury in their murder trials.
I watched the same videos and I saw what appeared to be a cold blooded murder in the first one. Now watching this one today (the first I am aware of it existing) I see no crime being committed by Arbery, especially one justifying a killing. These men made a conscious decision to take loaded guns with them. They could just have as easily stopped Arbery without the guns and asked him what he was doing in the home under construction. A camera on a phone would provide more evidence for REAL POLICE and nobody would have died. If the men were worried about being killed themselves, they should never have confronted him, just followed and called the police...
I could see somebody calling it trespassing or illegal entry, but no other crime could be proven from what I saw, certainly not one worth the man's life unless you place no value on his life because he looks different than those living in the neighborhood.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/11/2010:43 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
whatever Stormfront is. I have no idea what your going on about
Really, you wanna quote anything from Stormfront?
Quote:
Stormfront Internet site Description Stormfront is a white nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic, Holocaust denialist, and neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. In addition to its promotion of Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in the propagation of Islamophobia.
this site says that the holocaust didn't happen.... contrary to all that shows it did.
You gotta be a fool to think it didn't happen... Just because it's fitting in with your own truth....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
A Glynn County man has been indicted for allegedly bringing a handgun to Brunswick High School’s campus in December 2013 during a basketball game between the school’s crosstown rival, Glynn Academy.
Ahmaud Marquez Arbery, who was 19 at the time, was indicted Jan. 28 for allegedly carrying a Big Bear .380 caliber pistol with him when attempting to make entry into the Dec. 3, 2013 basketball game.
Glynn County School police said at the time that an officer noticed a gun in Arbery’s waistband, and he ran when the officer attempted to stop him. Officers put the campus in a lockdown mode during the foot chase.
In the course of the chase, one school resource officer fell and fractured his hand.
Arbery is now facing charges in Glynn County Superior Court of carrying a weapon within certain school areas, carrying a weapon without a license and three counts of obstructing an officer.
1. Mr Arbery at the age of 19 was arrested for bringing a loaded pistol to a high school basketball game. Now what do you logically think he was up to bringing a gun there? Is it fair to assume he was obviously up to no good. He knew it was illegal to bring a gun there, yet he done it anyways.
Its safe to assume he was planning a mass shooting or was planning to shoot and hurt people. Only a no good SOB and a coward takes a gun into a high school basketball game with a bunch of defenseless children. this man was obviously dangerous and should have been locked up behind bars in the 1st place.
Go ahead and take his side though, because its all about race eh? pay no mind to this mans violent criminal history and gun criminal past that obviously shows him to be a threat to soceity.
whatever Stormfront is. I have no idea what your going on about
Really, you wanna quote anything from Stormfront?
Quote:
Stormfront Internet site Description Stormfront is a white nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic, Holocaust denialist, and neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. In addition to its promotion of Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in the propagation of Islamophobia.
this site says that the holocaust didn't happen.... contrary to all that shows it did.
You gotta be a fool to think it didn't happen... Just because it's fitting in with your own truth....
Of course the Holocaust happened. Infact a lady that used to live in my town survived the Holocaust, she was in one of those camps as a little kid. She used to tell us stories when we were kids at church. It was a miracle she even survived. I would never for a second ever question that.
It sounds like Stormfront is a bunch of worthless pieces of trash. Hating someone based on race or anything else is not only petty, its unchristian like and i refuse to do so.
Please understand, I am only looking at this case from a legal perspective in how the law applies in Georgia, no other factors.
His record, and I suspect there was no conviction in that case, has ZERO to do with him being gunned down. Smearing the man does not make what happened here any less tragic, it only implies his life was somehow less valuable due to previous allegations. That would be like me putting two and two together from your sources and previous posts and assuming you are a bigot of epic proportions at minimum or a full blown white supremacists on the other side of the scale. Personally I think your sources suck ass and you surround yourself with an alt-right feedback loop that makes you think your posts are mainstream. I think at heart you are probably a decent dude but your political views paint a different picture that I'm not sure you completely grasp.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
AlL Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to.
It's not that simple. Nobody with any amount of common sense is going to stop in their tracks and comply with the looks of those 2 chasing him while brandishing weapons. At that point, fight or flight is on...I don't care what color you are.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
...and yet here you are casting the first stone on a black man.
Quote:
John 8:6-8 New International Version (NIV) 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground
Link ----------------- I should dig and see what your take was on Trayvon Martin. I'm sure there's some nuggets in your history...
Time to go look for receipts. Hopefully they aren't hidden away by your crusade to call Mangini Cartman, either.
You sure like to judge based on what you don't know. How much do you know about minority issues, the struggles of undocumented migrants in their own country, or how much it time and money it costs to enter the country?
His record, and I suspect there was no conviction in that case, has ZERO to do with him being gunned down. Smearing the man does not make what happened here any less tragic, it only implies his life was somehow less valuable due to previous allegations. That would be like me putting two and two together from your sources and previous posts and assuming you are a bigot of epic proportions at minimum or a full blown white supremacists on the other side of the scale. Personally I think your sources suck ass and you surround yourself with an alt-right feedback loop that makes you think your posts are mainstream. I think at heart you are probably a decent dude but your political views paint a different picture that I'm not sure you completely grasp.
He was currently on probation for that gun crime, and Mr. McMicheal was the investigator that busted Abery on those gun related charges at that school during his time as a investigastor for the DA's office.
I appreciate you saying I am a decent dude. I try to be, and I am sure you are too.
I will say right here for everyone to see:
1. I don't think those guys should have confronted him. 2. I don't think those guys should have left their proprty with those guns. 3. I think both of these guys are guilty of manslaughter because they "Created a condition of negligent loss of life" by confronting this man with guns.
I don't think these guys should just walk away from this. Had they just stayed in their vehicle and simply followed him and alerted the police to his whereabouts that would have been enough.
I am a BIG proponent that guns are only to be used as a shield and self defense, and in my book self-defense is not confronting someone, even if they have commited a crime. Guns are to be used to "egress" a dangerous situation or stand your ground inside your home, not to be going out on the street trying to detain someone.
So yes, both of these guys are guilty of manslaughter, well they would be in any other state...but Georgia is a strange place with some very liberal self defense, open carry, and stand your ground laws that just may allow these two to walk which I honestly think in my personal opinion is BS, but the law in Georgia says otherwise.
I think they should do time for manslaughter, but I just don't see a murder conviction with the way the laws are in Georgia. Sadly even manslaughter is pushing it and i strongly feel thats exactly what they done, but its not up to me. Its up to the law.
You sure like to judge based on what you don't know. How much do you know about minority issues, the struggles of undocumented migrants in their own country, or how much it time and money it costs to enter the country?
Being against allowing undocumented illegal immigrants to freely enter our country is NOT being racist nor hating anyone. Its simply following the laws as written.
I never advocated it was ok to put kids in cages. It doesn't make me racist to compare AOC ideas with some pretty crazy Communist dictators of yester years when they seem valid.
It is not racist to not want US tax dollars being spent on illegal immigrant kids education. Im all about spending that money on the citizens of this nations kids, in fact triple it, but to payout to foreign kids who are here against the law? that nonsense, and its not racists, its against our laws.
This is why you can't have meaningful discussion,Every single viewpoint no matter what it is, if it involves a minority its racist if you don't agree with the left. Nothing else matters, either you agree with us or your racist.
Im finished, its obvious you don't want to discuss this in a logical manner.
I don't hate anyone, but I do think our laws should be upheld, and immigrants coming to this country undocumented is illegal, its a crime. That doesn't make me racist.
Take care, I hope you one day learn to not look at everything though the filter of race and evaluate everything as such.
Racism will endure until people stop looking at themselves as members of a group and begin focusing on individual liberty. All people are equal and should be treated the same way, but they won't be until we get past this notion of inherent racial identity which in fact perpetuates racism.
None of anything you brought up is relevant to this incident. There is video. The man didn't steal anything or threaten anyone. You are advocating that murder be legal based on any suspicion by any citizen. That's not how any of this works.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
This is a perfect example of me hating both sides of this debate.
"Killed for jogging while black"
Vs.
"He was trespassing and had a record"
Both of these lines are for simpletons. It's a complex situation with a lot of variables that ended in a man being at worst murder and at best manslaughter. You can't run trespassers down in the frickin street and shoot them, point blank period. Shouldn't even be trying to detain people for trespassing, these two idiots should go to jail for no other reason than being idiots. Oh they also murdered a man.
At the VERY least, you can't walk up on someone brandishing a weapon and then argue self-defense.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
AlL Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to.
It's not that simple. Nobody with any amount of common sense is going to stop in their tracks and comply with the looks of those 2 chasing him while brandishing weapons. At that point, fight or flight is on...I don't care what color you are.
You do know they pleaded with him several times to stop? They cut him off a few times and tried to talk to him and he refused...if their intent was to kill him, why would they go to all the trouble to try and get him to stop on a public street so they could talk to him? Why would they call the police and tell Mr. Arbery numerous times the police was on their way if they wanted to murder him? The fight or flight argument doesn't fly here because they had no intentions of killing him, and he knew the police were on their way there...so why flip out and snap? These are legitimate questions, and ones any defense attorney worth their salt is going to bring up.
None of anything you brought up is relevant to this incident. There is video. The man didn't steal anything or threaten anyone.
Do you have proof he didn't take anything? If so i'd like to see it. your "assuming" he didn't.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You are advocating that murder be legal based on any suspicion by any citizen. That's not how any of this works.
Its not murder in this case if a crime/felony is being committed and said citizen is attacked by the suspect he is lawfully attempting to detain until authorities arrive:
See the following Georgia Laws:
Quote:
OCGA 17 -4 -60A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”
So in this case, video surveillance and 1st hand eye witnesses accounts of him entering that said resident constitutes reasonable and probable suspicion for a private citizen to detain someone under Georgia Law.
Now lets see how Georgia Law DEFINES Burglary shall we?
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-7-1 (2014) (a) As used in this Code section, the term:
(1) "Dwelling" means any building, structure, or portion thereof which is designed or intended for occupancy for residential use.
(2) "Railroad car" shall also include trailers on flatcars, containers on flatcars, trailers on railroad property, or containers on railroad property.
(b) A person commits the offense of burglary in the first degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure designed for use as the dwelling of another. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the first degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. Upon the second conviction for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than 20 years. Upon the third and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 25 years.
(c) A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Upon the second and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the second degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than eight years.
(d) Upon a fourth and all subsequent convictions for a crime of burglary in any degree, adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.
So as we can see From Georgia Law, Arbery entering that "House under construction" Constitutes a "Dwelling" under Georgia Law, and entering a dwelling without permission with intent to steal or commit a felony constitutes felony burglary. So this means Arbery was a "Felony burglary Suspect" under Georgia Law which satisfies OCGA 17-4-60.
In this case Arbery was "suspected" of Burglary so a Citizen of Georgia had the legal right under OCGA 17 -4 -60 To detain him.
As for the guns, we again refer to Georgia Law:
Quote:
OCGA 16- 11- 126 Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without ta valid weapons carry license. (b ) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.”
The McMicheals were legally allowed under Georgia Law OCGA 16- 11- 126 to Open Carry those weapons. Its NOT considered Brandishing under Georgia Law because of this:
Quote:
O.C.G.A. 16-11-102 16-11-102. Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another
A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.
Since the McMicheals had "Legal Justification" under OCGA 17 -4 -60 its not brandishing a weapon therefore it isn't a crime.
Listen PitDawg, I think these laws Georgia has are insane. In every other state, what happened to Mr. Arbery would probably be murder or Manslaughter, but Georgia, as you can see by their laws, is a whole different animal.
As much as it crazy to say this, under Georgia Law the moment Mr. Arbery entered that "Dwelling" without permission he became a burglary suspect under Georgia Law, and that empowered citizens to take action against him they would otherwise not legally be allowed to do.
The older gentlemen worked in the DA's office for many years, he obviously knew the law in Georgia and knew the moment he entered that house he was legally allowed to pursue him.
To muddy the waters worse, its not even clear who shot Arbery:
From the DA's Office:
Quote:
Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.
Things are not as cut and dry as the video tries to tell you. Folks will see what they want to see, and are not looking at the multitudes of evidence presented by the DA Office and citing actual laws on the books in Georgia backing their position.
The crux is according to the DA office, the moment Mr Arbery enterted that dwelling he became a "Burglary suspect" since someone called it in to 911. Under Georgia Law those citizens were empowered by the law to pursue and attempt to detain him, even with guns under Open Carry Law. Since Mr. Arbery was now a "Burglary suspect" him attacking Mr. McMicheal with that shotgun makes Mr. Arbery the aggressor, prior to that the McMicheals never laid one finger on Mr. Arbery, Mr. Arbery was the one who started the physical altercation, and with the insane laws Georgia has, what would be manslaughter in most other states becomes self defense.
I don't like this anymore then anyone else, but the law is the law. Georgia probably needs to re-write a few of those laws to be a bit more reasonable. the citizen arrest thing probably needs to go.
At the VERY least, you can't walk up on someone brandishing a weapon and then argue self-defense.
In this case, yes they can:
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O.C.G.A. 16-11-102 16-11-102. Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another
A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.
But they have legal justification under OCGA 17 -4 -60 because they observed Mr. Arbery entering a dwelling without permission which is classified as felony burglary under Georgia Law, so he became a "Burglary suspect" at that point and in conjunction with Georgia open carry laws, citizen arrest laws, and self defense laws had the full weight of the law on their side to pursue him and attempt to detain him.
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OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion
I don't like it anymore than you, I think these laws in Georgia are nuts, but they are what they are till they are changed.
This is a perfect example of me hating both sides of this debate.
"Killed for jogging while black"
Vs.
"He was trespassing and had a record"
Both of these lines are for simpletons. It's a complex situation with a lot of variables that ended in a man being at worst murder and at best manslaughter. You can't run trespassers down in the frickin street and shoot them, point blank period. Shouldn't even be trying to detain people for trespassing, these two idiots should go to jail for no other reason than being idiots. Oh they also murdered a man.
If it were only that simple
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Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.
The video doesn't show you Mr. McMicheal pulling the trigger shooting him, the video shows Mr. Arbery attacking Mr. McMicheal and the two struggling over the gun and it going off. They are not even sure who pulled the trigger, it is just as likely that Mr. Arbery shot himself by pulling on the shotgun. You cna't really tell from the video.
Murder is a legal definition, and with the "evidence we have right now" we can't conclude this is murder. As i have said the laws in Georgia are MUCH different than most other states when it comes to this kinda stuff. I personally will say I think they are nuts, but they are what they are.
I think its prudent to wait till everything else comes out at trial if we get that far. In terms of a defense attnorney, they have A LOT to work with here with the laws in Georgia to probably make these guys walk where in any other state they would probably fry.
It will be interesting to see where this case goes.
As I have said, I think those guys whould have just followed him and stayed in the vehicle and lets the cops confront him instead of trying to play cop, but blame the Georgia government for passing over the top citizen arrest laws.
Im not "justifying" it. I think its NUTS that Georgia has such laws on the books. However my "personal opinion" doesn't matter. All those Georgia Laws I listed have brewed a cocktail of specific conditions that have "legally" allowed an outcome like this to transpire.
This has nothing to do with the person being a minority, It has to do with Georgia insane laws.
These laws in Georgia are absolutely BONKERS. The Open Carry Law in Georgias would be brandishing in most other states, I don't even think most other states even have a Citizens Arrest law, and don't get started on the self defense and stand your ground laws in Georgia that make Florida look like a walk in the park.
Its sad, but the minute Mr. Arbery entered that Dwelling, he literally just poured a crazy Georgia legal cocktail that allowed two morons to pursue him, heckle him, block him off, and then take part in killing him and they are actually going to probably walk over these INSANE and BONKERS laws they have in Georgia.
That is the real tragedy here...how does a citizens arrest law like that one even get passed? I mean wow...its unbelievable really.
Guys like these two give all gun owners a bad name. If it was up to me both these guys would be locked up, but its not up to me and the crazy laws in Georgia actually protect them in this instance which is just crazy in itself.
My whole point of posting this whole thread was to show the disconnect between the media and the law. As we see here, the law paints a completely different narrative then what the media and general thought would be. I think that a very dangerous thing.
I hope these two guys are charged with something...they should not just be able to walk away from this after IMO they created conditions for a person to lose their life in a negligent manner. There has to be some sort of legal remedy or this whole thing is just insane.
This is one of those instances where, yes, you can use the law to justify a clearly wrong and very tragic situation. But in order to do so, you have to completely unburden yourself of common sense. Only then, and when combined with cherry-picking laws here and there, can you come to a seemingly well-reasoned response.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I just don't agree, you can't run people down in a truck with guns in the street for trespassing. They called the police, should have left well enough alone.
This is obviously a sensationalized issue, I get that, if the roles were reversed this wouldn't even be news. Black man killed by white men gets libs panties in a wad more than Trump's rhetoric. They jump to conclusions faster than an angry girlfriend...."Killed for jogging while black"....Lebron saying they are "Hunted in the streets every damn day" is utter and complete nonsense.
Still man, you just can't do it, you can't chase people down in your truck and point guns at them unless you are an active duty police officer, in uniform and properly identifying yourself.
Like I'm just not going to live in a world where vigilanties can just pull a gun on me for any reason they want.
The video shows him walking away from the construction site empty handed. He took nothing. You have a right to defend your own home against intruders. You do not have the right to stop an unarmed man based on your suspicions.
This won't end well for your theory that you can just walk up to people and demand they stop while you are armed. I wish the guy were armed so he could have stood his ground and killed his aggressors. I would have in his situation. Of course I doubt they would have approached me in such a manner for obvious reasons.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The video shows him walking away from the construction site empty handed. He took nothing.
I don't care if he walked out there carrying as much lumber as he could hold... what they did was still wrong.
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You have a right to defend your own home against intruders. You do not have the right to stop an unarmed man based on your suspicions.
It wasn't even their home. The guy who owns the home under construction said there has never been a report of anything missing.
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This won't end well for your theory that you can just walk up to people and demand they stop while you are armed. I wish the guy were armed so he could have stood his ground and killed his aggressors.
What Ahmaud Arbery did once confronted was try to resist a kidnapping or, call it unlawful detention. I've seen nothing to lead me to believe otherwise.
