DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agency Part III

Clowney has been a bust for being the 1st overall pick. He has 32 sacks in 75 games played, which in 6 seasons, means he's missed 21 games due to injury.

For comparison sake, Garret has 30.5 sacks in 37 games, and has missed 11 games to injury/suspension.

Clowney is a good player, but a bust as the #1 overall pick, especially with him playing opposite Watt for years.

GC. Where is the Keeping the team together and focusing on the fundamentals of football
Part III,

; why the heck can't I find !!! like the III in the title, ///, 333, [[[, on my keyboard.

iii, jjj, |||, |||

Clowney was the #1 overall pick? ... that means nothing to me in his current situation, I’m just curious.

Yes, 2014 Draft. And he was hyped as the next huge DE mostly because of a Bowl game hit on a 160lbs RB. He is physically imposing and was a good/great college player, but hasn't been great in the NFL. Definitely a good player, but also a bust based on where he was drafted and the hype surrounding him.

Thanks ... i did not remember that ...

I've been consistent in opposing signing Clowney but now he's got a bust label?

He's going to sign somewhere for an amount that can conservatively be estimated between $$15 mil.-$17 mil. per year, maybe more in his sixth year and he's a bust? No, he's not the right fit for this team. His injury history is as troubling as our current $15 mil Defensive End but he is an effective player.

Clowney doesn't inspire trust. I don't think he's the right fit for this team at this time but with all of that said objectively the guy can play in this league without changing much of anything about his game. Only fans would rely on the metric of his draft status to determine if he is a bust. I can't prove it but I highly doubt any Pro Personell executive in the league would share that evaluation.

In terms of Clooney, I always thought that one play against Michigan really put him into stardom ... even though he really didn’t match it with consistent production yet

That still doesn't make him a bust. Gerrard Warren wasn't a bust.


Warren may not have lived up to expectations, but you don't start 14-15 years if you are a bust.

Just saying.

3 time Pro Bowler is a bust - LOL, seriously.

Warren didn't. he only started 8 years.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WarrGe20.htm

he did manage 36.5 sacks and 29.5 QB hits in his 10.5 year carrrer

Yes, seriously. The Pro Bowl vote is largely a popularity contest. Clowney is a good player. If he's the 21st pick in the draft, he's a decent choice. But as the #1 overall pick, he's supposed to be a dominant, game changing player. He isn't.

Or your expectations for what the first pick should be are out of whack.

I didn't think anyone would disagree w/me, but okay.

We have different definitions of a bust. Giber was a bust. So was Johnny Football. Timid was a bust. TRich was another bust.

Clowney might not have lived up to expectations, but I can't even fathom calling him a bust. I pray we don't sign the guy to a big-dollar contract, but he isn't a "bust."

How about PFF? The last three years he has received the same, and better, marks as Garrett. He is better than Garrett in stopping the run. Garrett only beats him out in sacks, though I have to check hurries. And before there is the 'only sacks?!' we are talking about 10 plays last year and 13.5 plays last year. In the mean time how many runs are there per game?

On a slightly different note. Everson Griffen, if his mental health checks out he would be cheaper than Clowney, likely to give you more sacks, also brings run defense and could possibly take a decent 1 or 2 year deal. Griffen as a rotational DE where he's not taking reps every down would offer plenty of depth.

Then there's the Viking connection, wonder why that deal hasn't gotten more traction?

Hey guard............don't you like Vernon?

Clowney is not worth the money he wants... he’s a good player but has a history of taking plays off and being relatively lazy in practice and off season... dude is a physical specimen and flashes but for as much money as he wants I don’t think it’s worth it

Agreed. I believe Vernon is better when healthy. Clowney would be fine at the right price.

Is Everson Griffen a swimsuit model?

When healthy I think he's still a good player. I think he was miscast as a 3-4 OLB for NYG. If he avoids injury and Myles draws more double teams he'll have opportunities to make plays. I think he'll be motivated to put something on tape before entering free agency at the end of the season. I hope for Emanual Ogbah type of production from him and maybe a little more.

No he's a 4 time former Pro-bowl DE and NFL Top 100 player of 2018. But FYI, I've heard he does Bikini waxing as a side hustle.

I think that Vernon helped open things up for Myles. I think he is a far superior player to Ogbah, and I am the guy who wanted us to draft Ogbah. I think Vernon is a quality player who can not only pressure the qb, but also defend the run very well. His outside containment is excellent. He does a tremendous job of maintaining the outside/in technique. He strings plays out which allows the pursuit to catch-up and make the tackle. I think he is vastly underrated on this board. The only concern I have w/him has to do w/his injuries.

For once we agree.

I appreciate the detail in your appraisal. Good stuff, I found myself recalling on-field examples of what you described.

Actually responding to Vers.

I think many on here would agree with your post, it's just that last line that can be a sticking point for some.

But I also think some folks can't get over what we gave up to bring him in. I don't agree with that line of thinking, but I can understand the frustration.

I hesitate to put the 'bust' label on Clowney, but I think the label has been misused far worse in other situations. Clowney was supposed to be what Garrett is, or even better, but he's not.

I’d say Clowney has been a major disappointment that hasn’t come close to living up to his draft spot ... he relies solely on his physical tools and doesn’t seem to “want it” ... IMO he’s not a bust .... he’s better than most at his position, he’s just not worth what he thinks he is ... he wants to get paid for what he should be not what he is ...

he’s fine making a great living and being an above average player at his position while at the same time being a classic underachiever who was complacent and never achieved the greatness his physical tools could have led to with effort .....

I think the issue with Griffen is his age. I don't think this FO will want to throw a contract at a player over 30 when there are younger options available.

I think it has to be something else. My reasoning? Andrew Sendejo is 32 and we signed him. I would think their familiarity with Griffen because of Stephanski and Woods would provide first-hand knowledge to make them comfortable with whether he can still play. As an average fan sitting on the outside of this situation, I think Griffen can still play. Particularly as a rotational lineman. So something else is likely going on there.

Agreed.

I think the reasoning is they (or simply just Berry) would rather have Clowney. If that falls through, perhaps Griffen is the backup plan.

If both options fail, they can rely on hoping Vernon can stay healthy. And if they can get Griffen on the cheap, maybe they keep both he and Vernon at his current contract?

Sendejo is very much an outlier, though. He's also proof that they aren't 1000% against the idea, but I distinctly recall seeing/hearing somewhere from Depo and others that over 30 isn't where we want to put our free agency money. It's not that we won't do it, but ideally, especially with the large contracts, we want guys under 30 hitting their prime and just coming off their rookie contracts.

I have heard Depo articulate a message as you summarize. The thing is, my personal feeling is that 1) Vernon is the best option in the short term. I think Vers did an excellent job describing what he is capable of when healthy. If he plays up to his skill level I would offer him another contract at the end of the season. This is with the expectation that Garrett gets extended during 2020. Under these circumstances, if he is willing to structure a deal that is equitable I'd sign him. If not, handshakes all around and best wishes.

2) Clowney will be expensive and I don't feel confident we know what we're buying with him. It would be a mistake to commit long-term dollars in a contract with him.IMO

3) As I said earlier, I think Griffen can play and contribute nicely in our rotation. I don't think he's seeking a long term commitment considering where he is at this stage of his career. I think he can fit comfortably within our cap situation He represents excellent rotational depth.

I would rather have a healthy Vernon than a self serving DE like Clowney, I admit the guy can stop the run and his sack total would go up opposite Garrett but this team needs to be just that ... A TEAM and he doesn't fit ... JMHO

I don't believe these reports that Clowney turned down a new offer from the Browns.

I believe that he turned down our original offer two months ago. I also believe that offer was the best offer he has received thus far.

These new rumors came out of the woodwork after a yahoo insider stated his opinion about what he thought Clowney was doing.

Clowney has never lived up to expectations, he's never been that consistent. He's never been overly dominating, not like his former teammate J.J.Watt. He's shown flashes of No.1 talent but has played more like a 2nd or 3rd round pick. No way in hell would I sign him to any big contract, he's not earned it nor does he deserve it.

Has he been a complete bust, no, but for being the No.1 overall pick, I can see why some would call him that.

You think second and third round picks are better than they are.

especially when compared to OUR 2/3 round picks