DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Black/White

I did vote for him. Did you forget why I voted for him?

In case you missed it, that's been going on for a long time now. This isn't where it started in this country. I've even seem armed men take over state houses in order to do it.

So white people treat race the way democrats treat red states? Interesting. Just call them redneck racist hillbillys, bask in your intellectual superiority and move on.. just keep them "over there" and don't ever ask them WHY they believe the way they do.

Every time there is a race incident I'm reminded that I should shut up and listen, I should seek to understand, I should seek to find common ground... and I have.

Every time the democrats get crushed in the red states they double down on labeling wider swaths of blue collar people unsalvageable racists and move on because... well because that's ok for them... they are intellectuals, they are the elite, what could they POSSIBLY learn or come to understand from a 4th generation farmer that would be of any value to them.

You claim it was ingrained for over 5000 years on one hand. I guess all that changed overnight. Everyone knows that the south still clings to their statues of Confederate War generals and the Confederate battle flags. They cling to the symbols of slavery while you say this?



Then you try and point the fingers at others? Come on man. And especially to say that in response to Clem of all people.

You really are starting to act like the very thing you claim to be against.

if someone like steve king can get elected 9 different times despite all of the racist crap he has stated, then at some point, people are gonna stop looking at the politician and start looking at the people who voted for them.

trump got sued by the federal government twice for racial discrimination, claimed our first black president is a foreign born muslim, claimed a judge couldnt be unbiased against him because "he's mexican and i'm building a wall" and constantly panders to the people who claim to be the party of lincoln, yet wont shut up about their confederate heritage that HATED lincoln.

and a whole bunch of people in those red states went "yea, thats the kind of guy i want speaking for me".

what did you honestly expect? that people who look like clem and i to NOT look at trump supporters with a side eye?

you ARE aware that the message they sent people who look like us is that at the VERY LEAST, they're ok with racism as long as they get what they want, correct? at the very LEAST.

guys like GM went "ya know what? even though i dont like racism, i care more about unborn babies than i do about my fellow alive and well minority americans, so imma vote for the guy with the blatant racist past".

guys like Arch went "ya know what? even though i claim not to be racist, i did think obama was a foreign born muslim, and i hate hillary clinton more than i hate racism, so imma go ahead and vote for trump".

seriously DC. answer the question.

when people show us where they stand with their ACTIONS (IE: voting), and when they tell people who look like me that they are ok with racist, sexist, and bigots as long as they get everything else they want...

HOW DO YOU HONESTLY THINK WE WOULD VIEW THEM?

you can NOT keep turning a blind eye to racist and those who pander to those sorts of crowds and then turn around and get upset when others view them exactly how they market themselves.

I can see the Kavanaugh defense coming now. "How do you expect us to act after the way you have been treating us?"

lol right. and whats sad is that you and i already seen them use that tired ass excuse before.

i made my postion on kavanaugh and the circus clear back then.

but damn bro. when he went on that rant, turning red in the face and started talking about some leftist hillary conspiracy during a confirmation hearing....

i couldnt help but think about Ford and go "damn, this is kavanaugh sober. i can only imagine what he's like when he's drunk....."

I tried to start a conversation way back on page 2, but it was swept under the rug, just like I thought it would be, so I will be more direct when asking questions:

Is the prevalence of single-parent black households a problem that needs addressed to fix this problem, and if so, how do we as a country fix it?

Is it a problem? Certainly. It however has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Maybe it's something you should open a new thread about. I'm sure many would be open to discussing it. When brought up in a topic that is totally unrelated it only serves to distract people from the issue at hand.

Root points to something being the bottom/basis. If something has a cause, it's probably not "the root." I guess racism could be seen as the root of some other issues, but it has it's own roots. To me, it seems as if rather than cutting off the head of the snake, going after "racism" is more like trying to cut off the rattle. Meh, defund the police is more of the rattle, racism is closer to the root issue, but I still think it missed the mark some.

My problem with "White Privelege" is that it racializes privilege and presents it as a universal truth. Do many white people benefit from privilege? Yes. Do all white people? I don't think so. A homeless white man and an African American man in a suit walk into a fancy restaurant, who gets better service?

I think the privilege in most cases is more a function of socioeconomic factors than it is about skin color. Is "racism" a shortcut to those socioeconomic underpinnings? Might socioeconomics really boil down to power and control?

To me White Privilege is a lot like your deflections. It's just shifting blame rather than doing anything to really address the critical issues. Yes, many people experience privilege. Some of them are white. Making "privilege" a racial issue seems to complicate the knot of racism rather than solving it.

The other problem with your white privilege theory is that when people have equal qualifications (which practically never actually happens outside of theory) it is just as (more) likely that a tie will go to African Americans over Caucasians due to quotas, equal opportunity laws, and diversity initiatives. In many instances, the law is now setup so that slots go to lesser qualified minorities. I'm really not complaining, but those laws kind of feel like another instance of missing the real root issue.

Honestly, I don't see how we fix the racism issue. I think it boils down to the distribution of wealth, and I can't see the people that now have the bulk of it giving it up. All the "normal" people want more of it and they blame each other for not having it. The Trumps of the world stir the pot while they count their ill gotten gains.

Sadly privilege does run very unevenly along racial lines. How people think about you does, in a lot of cases consider your race.

Example; Black man wearing a hoodie after dark walking in an affluent, white neighborhood. Please don't pretend like most people who see him do not have a preconceived notion based along racial lines.

But that's not the point. It's never been the point. It is irrelevant at all levels in regards to 'White Privilege'

You writing that - to me - seems to me that you don't get it. Maybe your idea of what WP is varies from mine. Maybe I am not explaining myself? I don't think you are deliberately misconstruing anything - I don't think you are racist or have an agenda.... pre-conceived notions and opinions maybe?

Here - let me try to briefly explain my understanding of what WP is (again): If you take ANY level of society - the poor, uneducated, educated, successful, mediocre, those on the wrong side of the law .... and you take 2 individuals with the same back ground, social economic history and upbringing: number of parents, housing, educational attainment ... and the ONLY difference is the color of their skin.... It is statistically proven that on average the white person will:
- Be incarcerated for shorter periods of time for the same offenses.
- Achieve greater income based on doing the same work/job/title
- Achieve greater success - promotion/advancement etc

As I said in another post - White Privilege does not mean White people are gifted something or born with a silver spoon in their mouth. It doesn't mean that successful White people don't work damn hard for everything they have. . . . it means that the same Black person would have had to work harder, grind longer, have better grades .. whatever it was .. to achieve the SAME as that white person.

That's a HUGE problem and needs to change. It is probably a different topic, but connected to, flat out racism or institutional racism etc ... this doesn't address (for example) the things like profiling and the fear over what might be a routine police stop for someone white, instills in a minority even when they are law abiding citizens in every respect.

Racism isn’t caused by single parent households. Racism isn’t caused by gang violence. If you’re trying to make it a point of “what causes racism” then you’re essentially victim blaming.

Take those dog whistles to another thread or Stormfront.

Wait. The underlined part. That is what you think of me? That I only CLAIM not to be racist?

Yes, it's a problem.
It's a problem the US (to date) has been unwilling to solve.

Here's a good way for us to start:
1. Stop killing the males.
2. Stop incarcerating them en masse for stupid bs drug charges that should be mental health issues

This is why nothing has been done so far. It's too hard for America to even take these first two steps because they are both things She simply doesn't want to do. Get started on those two things, and we can talk about the really difficult steps later.

.02

Pit, so many of your posts to me any more are an attempt to find subtle examples of contradiction, that aren't really there, that you pounce on to prove some kind of a point. Then you drop in a couple of emojis as if to celebrate your victory over the lesser informed hypocrite. Then you conclude with some plea to save my political soul...

It's shallow and it's insulting... perhaps it's the limitations of message boards, perhaps it's just a lack of desire on your part to make any attempt at all to actually try to understand.... either way, every attempt at nuance in a conversation is lost... and complex issues are reduced back to the same 3 or 4 tired talking points.
****************************************

While I'm on my little role and since this will probably be my last post for a while, I'll just go ahead and unload... I'm having dinner with 2 friends later in the week because I reached out to them and asked for help. See I have never been able to get real comfortable with BLM and something about it just rubbed me the wrong way. Well recently, through introspection, I think I have figured out what it is and I want to talk to them to see if they can help me come to terms with it and overcome it. I agree 100% with the objectives of BLM.. equality, equity, fairness, non-violence, safety, economic opportunity, etc.. all of those things. Now we might disagree on the best methods to achieve them but that's policy discussions, those are cool. My problem is not with protestors standing in unity, black/white/brown/young/old/male/female... doesn't matter, stand in unison... I want to be one of those white people standing in unison but first I had to figure out what this nagging feeling was that was preventing me from doing that... and I think I have figured it out. It was in part a couple things that Swish said, that he probably didn't know he said, that helped me..... It's the annoying AF woke white people who are kneeling, burning down fast food restaurants, lighting up cars, poisoning cops, and judging the actual out of everybody else as if they themselves were just released from the plantation and are as-one with the eternal spirit of Harriet Tubman.

So obviously, since I believe this is the issue, then the issue is with ME.... and I need to fix it. Throughout the last few weeks, I have watched and listened and what I've seen is that the black community has been generally more respectful, more mature, and more measured in response than the privileged white people who claim to be on their side. Yet every time I turn on the news it's YOUNG WHITE PEOPLE being interviewed, carrying bull horns lecturing large groups, throwing things at cops, making this about political parties, burning stuff down, waving offensive signs, acting the fool..... and they are, in fact, pushing me, and I would have to assume others like me, away from throwing in our full support. If the white folks would shut up, stand with the black protestors, let the black protestors do the speaking, and follow their lead..... the result would be attracting a lot more white people... So I guess my advice to white people in this case is, you are not the focus of this fight, stop making it about YOU and your virtue signalling....

But I can't control these woke white people and neither can the well-meaning black people... so I have to come to terms with it and figure out how and where I can still support...

All of that is, of course, just my opinion...

And Clem, I love you man, if I offended you in any way, you know where to find me.

j/c I think some of y'all could use a little break. Here's a little levity... this guy makes tons of funny videos about discovering cross culture stereotypes. This is one of my favorites..

To chill, I've been watching Jack Hanna's appearances on David Letterman. It's good for the soul/mood/humor.

Same here, I voted for Urban Meyer in the last election. pfffft spiral.

j/c:

I will say it again. In my opinion--and experience--the hostile attitude and unwillingness to discuss the topic by certain folks are actually hurting the cause they are fighting for.

I get that the crew will attack me yet again and try and paint me as a racist, but I don't give a damn because I think their message is out of line.

I view all people equally. I have no built-in biases. I do not think whites are better than blacks or vice versa. What I do is hold each individual accountable for their own actions. I would never think negatively of a person because of their race. However, I hold them all to the same standard. You get no pass because you are white. You don't get a pass because you are black. Act appropriately or I will deem you unworthy. Act decently and I could care less about your race, sex, or religious beliefs, or sexual persuasion is.

I feel there is a small group on here that try to paint a false picture that all of the problems of blacks are due to white people. Sorry, but that is not true.

I have refrained from telling many stories of my experiences in education and working to help out minorities because some of them are not very flattering of a certain group of people. I don't typically share those stories because I don't want whites to say: "See, I told you so..." But damn man, the false narrative that some are painting is getting a bit hard to take.

Racism and tribalism, will end in only one way, and only on one day: the day the last human dies.

I have another idea... Just adding to yours Clem. I would like to see more equality. Which hopefully would lead to more black males getting the opportunity to get hired for a good job to support his family, then having to sell drugs or do other things to be a good father or simply providing for them.

My company is hiring and pays very well. 3 new people started today. One out of the 3 was a young black male named Kenny, such a nice young man. I was happy for him. I always tell the new hires to form there own opinions and don't let others discourage you. We have good people in the plant I work at. I always tell them I'm always here if you need to talk.

The prison thing is a big burr in my butt. I don't like them. people need educated and helped. Not incarcerated for drug use.

I'm not offended.
Here's why:



That paragraph right there is evidence that work is being done on your part. Work that not a lot of people are willing to do. 'Cause it's hard.

Virtue Signallers are easy to spot, so they're easy for me to ignore. They're loud, they're shallow, and they talk much s#. The hollowest drums, banging the loudest. There are people of substance out there who are the young voice of this movement, and they aren't the folks you've been shown. Smart. Educated- yes, scholastically, but also culturally. Focused, energetic and young. And trust me: the youth of this movement are its future. Folks need to remember that MKL died at the age of 39. This platform and message has always moved forward on the energy of the young. There are some substantial people doing good work everywhere. They aren't really that hard to find; they're just one lane over from your usual infostream. When you find them and check out their messages, you'll understand the context from which my posts originate. It'll all make sense.

I remain intrigued with this thread.
Stepping back out now.

Sweep, sweep, sweep...

What is the issue at hand? Racism and getting killed by the police, correct?

How can you say it has nothing to do with it when there is pretty much a direct correlation?

% of children live in single-parent households - 2018:

Black - 65%
American Indian - 53%
Hispanic or Latino - 41%
White - 24%
Asian or Pacific Islander - 15%

Data - Disclaimer - these number seem slightly high based on other research I have done, but the ratios are very similar to US census bureau data, which I could not find data for Asians/Pacific Islanders for.

Death by Cop Mortality rate (compared to whites)
Blacks - 2.5
American Indian - 1.7-1.2
Hispanic or Latino - 1.4-1.3
White - 1
Asian/Pacific Islander - 0.4

Data

I'm not a statistics major, but I'd say that's pretty much a direct correlation.

It's easy to paint everyone in broad strokes and say they are racist; however, that's not really what the data shows. It's even easier to sweep any data that contradicts your stance under the rug.

I have not said anything about whose fault this is; all I'm asking is how to fix it, because this issue, and racial bias as a whole, will not be fixed until this number is changed, whether directly or indirectly.

Thanks for actually making a reply and not sweeping it under the rug like others. I actually brought up your 2nd point back on page 2, and I agree that needs to be done. Another thing that I said needs done is more consistent sentencing across all races and economic levels.

However, the questions becomes, what is the cause, and what is the effect? I argued back on page 2 that both things - absent black fathers and the incarceration of black males - are both causes and effects; basically, one causes the other, and vice versa, and it leads to a never-ending cycle.

So does it makes sense to only target one side (justice reform), while sweeping the other side under the rug? How can there be progress that way?

1. The cause: is a system that was built upon a construct that has persisted virtually unchanged since the late 1600's. A system that was built upon a ruling aristocracy model, with chattel human capital to build their structures of wealth.

The entire country.
Both North and South.

2. The effect: is an entire population that is to this day, under-educated, under-fed, under-funded, under-represented, exposed to the most toxic living environments, subject to -10 years average life expectancy, lower annual income, less personal wealth, and no safety net- either through personal means, or through our social institutions.

An entire population that has been failed by Our Society's inability to evolve beyond its original model.

Why do we see an entire population of American people in such dire circumstance? The answer is simple:
America still doesn't know what to do with Her out-of-date 'machinery.'

When We came here, We came as property. We were property then, and that assumed that We'd still be property in 2020. It's just the way things were. The System wasn't built to consider People of Africa as anything but machinery, so it never had another purpose for them, once the original business model was broken by A.Lincoln and those pesky Republicans.

Stick an entire population into 3rd-world living standards, and you'll reap 3rd world results. It's true in South America. It's true in SE Asia. And it's true right here in the United States. Because we devised the system to look like this 400 years ago. And we're still trying to use it in 2020, instead of trying a new construct that isn't built on a model designed as the Mayflower ground into port.

Take this current pandemic situation as a ferinstance: America's Black population is being devastated by this scourge. Just 2-3 days ago, an Ohio legislative official (and MD by trade) suggested that Black Americans' elevated numbers of infections might be because they don't practice the same level of hygiene as other demographics.

Meanwhile, a system that has subjugated an entire population since it imported them as chattel has

boxed them out of the upward ladder
slowed their progress in the American Dream by denying them access to finances, property, you name it...

THAT SYSTEM devises a housing solution for the sons and daughters of slaves who were never given practical tools to catch up- people with limited options and a social infrastructure that doesn't consider them at all:

Let's build mega-story high rises just outside of the industrial/commercial district. Hi-rises. Because Hi-Rises occupy the smallest Real Estate footprints. So now, our nation's poorest people, under-educated, under- [you remember the list]...

...are stacked up like cordwood in installations that all but ensure mass deaths. Terrestrial installations that all but guarantee the same mortality rates as slave ships en route to The New World.

In 2020 A.D.


New Century/same old s#.

We still treat people like property- or things- in this country.
That is the cause.

People live their entire lives as property- or things- in this country.

That is the effect.

Oops, meant to reply in here...

1619-History of Slavery in the United States.

This is a great place to listen to some great conversations about this project.

Ah now you see I think "ALL Black Lives Matter" while you turn your back on the innocent babies. So what your really saying is SOME Black Lives Matter" but not all of them.

Great post Clem.

Hard to find fault with it and I wonder if anyone will try to argue your thoughts/positions which seem almost too logical and obvious.

Interestingly - in both the cause and the effect - I see elements of British influence. The British - while having created a multicultural society today in the 2000's where skin color is really not all that much of a factor in daily lives and decisions ... today's Britain was built on the back of the Empire going around the globe, colonizing other countries and subjugating the native peoples. Hell, in Australia their was never even an indigenous treaty made with the Aborigines and there were many massacres and slaughters to simply kill off the native population. I think that classist, ownership type of thought process is where some of that slave ownership mentality in the USA was probably sourced.

And then during the industrial revolution Britain pioneered mass housing on industrial estates and close to large scale factories. No idea if that influence was significant or not, since high rises were born of a different advancement in building technology and engineering, but the way you wrote your post made me think of that model.

So... assuming we want to accept these premise as the "root cause" (or close enough to move forward) and that one of the biggest resulting affects that needs to be addressed is a segment of our population that is "under-educated, under-fed, under-funded, under-represented, exposed to the most toxic living environments, subject to -10 years average life expectancy, lower annual income, less personal wealth, and no safety net- either through personal means, or through our social institutions" .... what can be done to make significant change and improvement? And honestly - if we can't agree on the root cause, it shouldn't prevent the discussion on how to change these issues that are fact based. It's literally in everyone's interest in society to improve these issues. Their might be corporations that benefit from this massive inequality - but I am talking about our society as a whole, not corporations making a buck.

And to repeat an earlier point - while I get that there are exceptions to every example, I get that there are racists from all segments of our society, I get that black's kill more blacks's than anyone, I get that there are individuals who take advantage of the current system or individuals who refuse to help themselves and in doing so hurt "their cause" .... none of that really matters in discussing solutions for the bigger picture. Or it shouldn't ... going down each of those rabbit holes is simple a distraction. Don't get sidetracked by examples of the WORST human behavior - focus on what can help the vast majority. . . . and once there are some solutions that might work, figure out how to put requirements in place that force people to help themselves or thresholds and barriers that can help prevent the worst elements exploiting the system. At least if I had the power to do so - that's what I would do... and once again I am not going to pretend to be smart enough to actually have answers or solutions.

j/c...

This is an excellent video.

Can't find anything wrong with your post... Good job

I'm stepping through the video very slowly... but there's one thing that really jumped out to me.

When he was talking about teachers recc'ing students for gifted programs, phrase he used really resonated with me.

"Were the white teachers racist? No." And then he goes on to say that they were affected by racial bias.

I honestly never thought of it before, and I think it's a bigger reason why it's so hard to have adult conversations about race. Just because you're on the one end of a race conversation doesn't mean you're a racist. You could just have a racial bias and not realize it. This is where I find myself sometimes ("I didn't even realize..." type of conversations), but that same person is usually defending themselves because they're being accused of being a racist. IMO, those are 2 very different things. I feel the ranks of allies would grow immensely if racial bias could be confronted w/o making it seem like the person is wearing a white hood.

That seems like a very fair point. While I do agree with the BLM movement and the goals they are fighting for, I've often seen how the message and conversation would make others defensive and confrontational. Yet at the same time it's not up to me to tell them how to package their message. They have the right to conduct it any way they choose.

The only problem being, it would seem to make a lot more sense to use terminology that would create an environment that would more easily get people to feel a desire to hear their message. One example I'll use is the latest one on the scene. "Defund the police." That's not at all the actual message if one actually listens and looks at what they're saying.

The problem is when people hear it, on the surface it sounds so preposterous it immediately causes a situation that puts others on the defense and they never see that actual message. From my perspective, the more people you get on your side, the more power you hold. Putting up barriers that help prevent that seem quite counterproductive to me.

You just ^ described the thought process in this regard of darned near everyone in my circle of friends/family/influence.

When I first saw "BLM" I was actually offended. My thoughts were "Of course BLM...all Lives matter! You are insinuating that I don't believe that." See X below.

Today, stating ALM is considered racist. That's ridiculous. I believe the term ALM is vilified because it opens the door to the debate on/of abortion "rights". The message-police know this and therefore do all they can to divert from the fact that ALM. (Note: I'm not here to debate abortion.)

X - My next thought was how much more meaningful would be the message if/for all races of protestors to hold up an ALM sign? ALM is very inclusive. It is easy for everyone to get behind and understand. To me, it is not accusatory or limiting as is BLM (not the cause...but the messaging). I think it would be MORE likely to make someone wonder/question: "Why does that person feel the need to make such a statement? Of course ALM, why are they showing that? Is something going on that I am not aware of?" I think you'd get a much better attraction/appeal that way and the opportunity to get out the/a message would be greater and have more appeal.

Instead, we have BLM which led to "Blue Lives Matter". That only furthers the divide...two factions competing for the same attention and message. Of course Blue Lives Matter...ALM! Then comes White LM, then Gay LM, then on and on and on...the result is more separation and division and exclusion...which hinders curiosity and the desire for additional awareness.

I bolded the last paragraph in the quote above as - again - it describes how I feel about kneeling for the national anthem. (Note: I'm not hear to debate kneeling for the national anthem...I've already done that.) I think it is wildly disrespectful to not stand for the NA. That's ingrained in my mind and soul.

To me, the NA has always been a sign of respect for the men and women who have sacrificed for the good of my country. There is no protest or purpose that should take away from that act. It puts the focus on respecting the flag...when the intent was to get out the message. If you don't respect what is so important to me, why should I care why you are doing it or want to hear your message?

A person is free to protest or demonstrate as they lawfully please...one is free to kneel during the NA. At the same time, another person is free to take your action as they see it. You don't get to decide HOW to protest and then also expect to control how people receive that protest.

(Those last three paragraphs were NOT to start or further the debate about kneeling...they were presented to enforce the above bolded paragraph about effective messaging.)

I've stayed away from this thread because threads like these all-too-often lose there way. But there is some very good stuff recently in here...from Pit to DC to Clem to Orange.

That is an excellent post. You delivered a very interesting message there. I had to read it twice to absorb what you are saying. I appreciate that you made your point without accusing others of causing or creating or perpetuating the issue.

Years ago someone on here made a post about the entire socioeconomic issue for African-Americans that dovetails with what you said above. That poster may have been you. That also really made me think. It also was not accusatory and did not throw out the race card in anyway.

I think the solution lies much in considering your post above, the socioeconomic post I noted and what Orange was asking. They go together. The solution is not to accuse others of racism because that net catches the wrong fish and misses the intended target. Nor is the solution to simply state that racism in this country is systemic. Again, that net is too wide.

When you make a post like you did, it makes me think of things I hadn't really considered. It also makes me wonder why that message isn't one that gets out there...eloquently and without accusation or blame. Maybe those who claim "systemic racism" mean what you posted above...but that isn't the message I receive from them.

Back to a solution: When one takes the time to delve into the issue, one also finds the things that Orange has mentioned about the family unit. One also finds the crime statistics - particularly those of young black men and the rate of crime that they commit. If the family unit were solid for those young men, I think, the crime rate would be vastly different. But the socioeconomic issue is still there. Likewise, efforts to help the socioeconomic issue won't be fully effective if the crime issue isn't also corrected. It's the argument as to which came first - the chicken or the egg. Both though must be addressed in order to fix the problem.

I wish that your post content was the message rather than the message(s) that are being thrown out all-too-often today. Maybe that message doesn't get out because it's lengthy and complex...and people don't have the attention span for much of that. What I fear is that those of us who do take the time to read and learn are not the ones who are the problem...and the ones who actually are the problem either won't get the message because they don't care (or due to actual racism) OR won't get the message because of how it's delivered.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but I think this explanation is only part of the problem. I also think relying solely on this type of thinking contributes to the problem.

It has to do with psychology and the way people think. Your post seems to exhibit signs that you primarily operate with an external locus of control.

Link There's an article that describes it better than I probably could on here.

Please give it a look before reading the rest of this, as without the reference it probably won't make any sense.

I'm not going to deny that history and the "system" contribute to many African Americans having an external locus of control. However, I also think that having this external locus of control leaves many people feeling they are stuck in the system. This outlook entrenches the system. A problem is that without the "system", many people wouldn't survive. In some ways it has to exist, but it was never meant to be permanent for people.

White people can't really teach black babies to not be stuck in this externally focused frame of mind. It's something that develops and hardens over time in the home.

White privilege, while it exists, reinforces this sense of lack of control as it is currently used by many African Americans. It exists, but it's not as insurmountable and pervasive as it is presented. It's not so black and white.

The mindset of feeling you don't have control and power contributes to not having control and power. In some sense, the white privilege push in effect gives power to White people. The phenomenon is real but in the exaggerated way it is presented it is a psychological deterrent to minority achievement.

While it's easy to feel that racism is a white people problem (and it is), it's not just a white people problem. Pushing it all on white people is another manifestation of that external locus of control. Trying to come to grips with how an individual personally can be contributing to racism unknowingly appears to me to be crucial in African Americans developing more of an internal locus of control and allowing them to explore their full potential.

Again, I an not trying to say that Caucasians are blameless. It's just that there are some things Caucasians can't do for minorities. They have to do them for themselves.

I believe they can. I've seen it. How can we get minorities to believe in themselves?

That's not to say there aren't horrible things that go on. There are brutality and inequality. But I think this part of things is all too often overlooked or outright denied. And, I think this is one of the huge, seemingly little, things that contributes to (/inevitably leads to) all of the other problems.

Yet nothing has been done to change it. Since you admit this is part of the problem, why not fix these things first and work our way up from there?

Great post Clem! As other have said, if that was the message BLM was portraying, I think it would be much more widely accepted.

And believe me, I hear you, and I really do want things to change; I want all people to be equal. And I don't disagree; black people, as a whole, face a myriad of disadvantages not known to white people, and it stems from a system of inequality this country has known for hundreds of years. But, how do you fix it?

I fully admit that racial bias runs rampant in this country. However, when it is based on very real facts (higher percentage of single-parent families, which leads to higher crime rate and lower economic prosperity, which in turn leads to more single-parent families), how do you eliminate racial bias without also eliminating the facts that create it? Everyone has racial bias (this is shown by data showing black LEOs are just as likely as to shoot black people as white LEOs). Does having a racial bias make you a racist?

And now, I bring this up, not as an argument or to discredit BLM, but to learn: Asain people had a rough time too when they first started coming to the US. They weren't owned as property, but they were used as cheap, disposable labor to build railroads, a very dangerous and deadly job at the time. They faced housing discrimination, living in overcrowded "Chinatowns." They were segregated into their own schools. They were paid less than their white counterparts.

But things changed. In a mere span of 30 years, they went from being placed in internment camps to being the "model minority." How did this happen?

I read an article from the Washington Post on this issue, and they brought up some interesting points. Some said this happened so that the US would gain allies during the Cold War. Others said that it happened to discredit the Black Civil Rights movement. The article explicitly said it wasn't because of education. However, the article never said how people actually became less racist....they just said people became less racist toward Asians. How did people suddenly just become less racist? Who makes the decision for all white people to just become less racist against Asains to discredit black people? Point me to him, and I'll plead with him to do this for black people.

How does that happen in the span of 30 years? That is just one generation. In just 2 generations, they are now more economically successful than whites. How does that happen? And what can we learn from that to apply to today?

They lessons I come away with:

1st lesson - Change can happen, and it can happen quickly. It is not a lost cause. Don't give up!

2nd lesson - Most people don't know this (because the media didn't cover it), but Asians also protested during the 50s and 60s. However, like I said, it wasn't given near the media attention that black protests recieved. Did this lack of media attention help them? I don't know, but it is interesting to consider. Also, the media pushed the narrative of the "model minority " on Asians. This is the same media that is now trying to drive us apart on this issue by showing these protests and hyper-covering these police shootings....is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

In light of that, I don't think fanning the flames and calling people racists falls in line with the Asian method....it is actually directly opposite. I think that's where I don't fully grasp the BLM movement. Like Pit mentioned, they don't know how to package their message - like at all. In my opinion, they look to divided us, rather than unite us. They lack good leadership. You just aren't going to fix these problems that way.

I don't think they're "looking to divide us". I think it's more a sign of the times than anything. The "news" as it's called, is driven on shock value. To garner attention to your cause these days, the more controversial your message, the more coverage it receives.

I certainly don't see that as a good thing, but sadly that's the way it is. And while it's also not a method I condone, it seems to be working. Things are changing all over this country now. Cities across America are making changes in their policing policies. They are changing leadership and methods.

So while I do agree the messaging could be better constructed, I have to admit the tactics being used are starting to work.