DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mayfield Says He "Absolutely" Doubted Himself Last Year

Just look at those pass attempt comparisons!

This is not not being able to read coverage. This is being blind.

4 open recievers and one for a huge gain if he just sets and throws..that DB is dead on that deep out. And baker threw it 10 yards out of bounds to the right side

I wonder if Baker is only focused on the deep route and does not even see the open WRs underneath causing him to throw it away?

I dunno. I think it is as simple as it looks. He was clearly looking at the open deep route, and had to have seen the 2 open receivers in front of him. He instead flipped to the other side of the field and chucked it.

If he had time to flip and chuck it away, wouldn't he also have time to set his feet in the direction he was already pointed?

Probably. I'm still in the 'Denial' stage of the 5 Stages of Grief.

Probably move on to anger after tonight.

Slobeski is a tool. He's the same guy who posted the scripted play stats w/out any context recently.

Anyone who has played football knows that that play should have resulted in an easy completion.

Ha. I thought it was as simple as it looked as well.

He was staring right at the wide open guys.

Here's more Sobleski for you!



Brent Sobleski
@brentsobleski
No pressure. Easy read. Result? PBU by LB clearly in position to make the play.

That pocket is a thing of beauty, as well.

I don't want to analyze too much into it, as I've never played QB... but it looks like it would've actually been faster/easier to set his feet and take a shot at any of those guys he was looking at rather than flip to the other side of the field.

This is why Mayfield is broken.

The out has probably been his best throw since he's been in the league. Quick decision, outside away from DL traffic, and he's great at timing on those throws.

The fact he's not taking that makes me think his head is swimming.

Zero confidence.

Not good.

I'm not going to post the article because it is about possibly benching Baker and I think that it is too early for such a thing, but in the article, it was said that Baker had more time in the pocket than any other qb in week one. Does anyone know if that is true or not?

I read that somewhere as well ... or maybe just that he had WAY more time than the average game last year.

It sucks. Every indication (including our own eyes) shows that Baker sucks. He simply can’t read coverage and that’s a fatal flaw.

On to the next IMO

I'm pretty sure that before the season started I read that you wanted to give Baker a fair shake this year? I think we have to wait the next few weeks to see what he can do. It's entirely feasible that he lights it up the next 2 games ... that wouldn't be the proof we need that he's "got it" ... and he could then struggle against Dallas who are much better, Colts? who knows, and he might STINK when we play Pit because their D is really good also. If he stinks in ALL those games, I'll be ready to move on. But not yet.

Yeah I mean, he's on his FOURTH head coach in less than THREE years. That's gotta be at least tied for a record.

Whenever I start a new job I need like 3 months to get acclimated, can't even imagine if my boss changed twice a year.

I'm willing to wait until mid season. If we're 3-5 or worse and Baker is still stinking it up, then I'll be alarmed.

I just have to ask. What does that have to do with scanning the field looking for an open WR? I mean isn't that what all NFL QB's are supposed to do no matter the system they play in?

I'm willing to wait and see myself just like you are. But at the same time it doesn't mean some of these are not legitimate questions.

Maybe. I really don't know the answer to that. I can tell you a couple of things I do know and we can go from there if people are interested.

--Route trees come w/options. Depending on the coverage, a receiver can make a choice whether to break the route off or continue.

--Once the ball is snapped, it's really chaotic. The corners might give you a look like they are in Cover 1, man press and then all of a sudden retreat and play Cover 3. Linebackers can drop into the intermediate middle zone when you thought that area of the field would be open during your pre-snap reads. For guys like you and me, all we would see is one huge blur. Pros have to process all this information in 2.5 seconds or less.

--Fate, reading coverages has always been about recognizing where the defenders are. You have keys and the safeties are almost always in those keys. Yet, you can't stare at the defender or you get tunnel vision. Instead, you have to look for passing lanes while seeing your key[s] in that line of vision. Typically, you have a route tree that includes 3 receivers in a certain side of the field. They are your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd reads. Thus, when you drop back, you have your vision focused on that particular area. The great Sid Gillman used to refer to this as "reading the square." Thus the coverage dictates which read is the correct read. The speed of NFL players is crazy, so you better not be late. Often times, either the qb or receiver will be too early or too late. We have all heard of rhythm throws and that is what I'm referring to. Also, rhythm throws involves the qb ready to release the ball as his plant foot hits the last step in this 3, 5, and 7 step drops. [Sidenote: do you remember me mentioning about how deep Baker's drops were in game one? That can disrupt the rhythm or timing of a play.]

I'll stop there. There is a lot more to discuss. We'll see if people are interested or not.

Btw....I'm not going to proofread this, so I apologize for any errors.

Myka - yes it is a record for any NFL QB starting his career with the same team. They mentioned that on Sunday pre-game.

Pit - there are real and legit concerns. It comes on the back of a bad season of poor prep, conditioning and play last year.

That said - what does a constant change at HC and play calling have to do with how fast Baker progresses through his reads? Probably not having a ton of confidence and having to think about what he's seeing and how it fits KS's O and philosophy, which has to be different that Haley's which was different than Freddie's "half court" offense, which was evidently different than HC/OC Freddie ... I mean that's not to say he's going to get faster, but I think having to engage the brain to think about something instead of having repeated it enough time that it's "automatic" has to have a restricting/limiting factor? jmo. *Assuming Baker plays better in weeks 2 & 3 ... I can see more wobbles playing some of the better teams but by week 8 or 9 we might have a much better idea of how fast Baker can process what he sees post snap.

I think every NFL HC, in every scheme, on every team tries their best to teach and work with a QB going through his reads. It's something that should be common practice. Not something he wasn't working on since he first began his rookie year.

I certainly agree that there have been distractions and he has been through a lot of coaching changes. I also agree that covid has put major constraints on preparing the entire team. But just like a WR should be able to catch the ball and run routes, an NFL QB should be accurate and going through his progressions in his third season at the position.

It's a fundamental part of being an NFL QB. It just seems odd to me how many here will pile on a WR for not doing the basics while making excuses for Mayfield not doing the basics. And all with the same coaching over the same time period.

I think most posters think Baker needs to improve - accuracy, reading the D, reading the plays as they develop and going through progressions to find the open guy. I think most think OBJ has underwhelmed since he's been here. It's not either or. It's not one causing the problem for the other. I think they both need to step up. I give OBJ props for playing through injury last year, getting 1,000 yards - but he dropped balls and didn't know where to line up.... as someone said he's immature. Oddly Baker *seems* to have matured some - but I'll wait to see 16 games of "maturity" under his belt before crowning him!

Here's to a good game tonight and progress from both.

Maybe so, but I think his mind is made up pre-snap. Locks on and waits. Going through his progressions is a laugh. Like this example, he has chosen to throw into multiple coverage windows and ignores open out and seam receivers. I thought the TE routes and a commitment to a bully running game would help him out. Either he is failing to choose well or the choice has been made for him to force it to someone, explaining the waiting and taking sacks again.

Based on nothing but my own impressions, Baker degrades more and gets worse the later in the game we go, especially when behind. Consider how that can be helped.

Thanks for posting. Those are the things that I have been trying to point out. The deep drops. Being late. Not being quick w/his reads/progressions.

I think that video provided some visual evidence of what I was talking to Fate about in my last post. I wish I had the ability to post videos when I am trying to discuss things. It helps make things a lot more clear.

This makes me wonder what Baker is being taught and whether Stefanski and staff have the experience to teach it.

The only thing I am not sold on - when he says all the OL are "securing" the rushers and Baker is bailing ... the OLB who is rushing Baker's right is most definitely not secure. Baker needs to step up into the pocket and the OLB will not get to him, but if he stands pat, I think the OLB gets to him ... but there is a window to throw to Landry for sure, I can't see OBJ on his route.

In addition to improved fundamentals, designed rollouts would dramatically help Baker Mayfield. According to
@NextGenStats
, since 2018, Mayfield completes 72.2% of his passes on designed rollouts as compared to 64.4% from the pocket.

https://twitter.com/RealTannenbaum/status/1306719472787632128

Van Pelt was stressing his footwork the moment he was hired. In Bakers rookie year, if you go back and look, when his back foot hit, he fired the ball. He is not doing that anymore. I don't think it is a coaching problem, I think it is Baker not taking it good.

I talked about this in the Post Game thread, but I think Baker played very well last night. He looked much more confident. His accuracy was very, very good. He was hitting guys in stride last night. He threw the ball very well on the run, and I think Stefanski was smart to roll him out.

Most of his throws were one-read, but I do remember one play in particular when he was rolling left and he went from progression number 1 [deeper option] to the second read. That was encouraging.

I also liked his interview w/the NFL Network crew after the game. He said something about it be "over" when the Colleen Wolf asked him how he felt when he woke up. He said all the right things. He's been much better this entire summer and in the early season regarding his comments to the media. Glad to see the maturity.

I liked his interview at the end as well. I wanted to go to sleep haha, but wanted to listen to him. Way more humble than he probably wanted to be LOL, but I liked it

Ryan Clark today called Mayfield a front runner. He said he didn't mean it in a derogatory fashion, but he really did.

He said the same thing I've been saying about Mayfield. He's great when things are going great and he's piling on, usually against bad teams. But he's not so good when he's down or there's adversity, usually against good teams.

And I disagree with with you guys about his post game interview with the NFL Network. When he said "the Mayfield household doesn't forget" I thought that same immaturity was creeping back up. I wish he would have said "I deserved to be criticized last week because I played like crap." He was being ridiculed for that comment on shows this morning. It's false bravado and fake tough guy stuff.

I think last night was a good step and a win feels very good, but Baker still has to play his best against the best. He needs to shed the frontrunner label.

Baker is good playing against bad teams, but then most of the QBs are.

Last night he played OK, considering the Bengals D is so bad, and limited his mistakes to 2. One rookie inexcusable intentional grounding penalty, and the 3th Quarter INT.

He is clearly the worst QB in the division, which is something most people are forgetting, and Joe and Lamar are young... rookie JB is already better than Baker.

I think people need to pump the brakes on this.

Baker was the next coming less than 2 seasons ago.

Burrow has looked composed. Like Baker, he's playing with house money. I think his arm is average and at some point he's going to have to start taking shots down the field.

He's the new shiny toy in the NFL like Baker was 2 seasons ago and look where we are now.

I did not like the Mayfield household comment, but overall, I thought he did a great job. He's been a lot better w/his media comments this year.

And I get that the Bengals are bad, but he was very accurate and got rid of the ball quickly. I saw progress.

I recall that play. I believe Baker initially was looking downfield to OBJ and came back to either Hooper or Bryant.

Just posted in 'Post Game' - I believe the play where he throws to OBJ over the middle and OBJ jukes and spins to a 1st down (Hooper got held on the play) - pretty sure OBJ was his third read.

This play you are talking about (I think) is actually the first play of the game where Baker rolls left ... looks deep, dumps off for 9 or 10 years to the guy hitting the sideline underneath. It's a good throw as the guy underneath has a guy half a step behind him.

No joke, I’m encouraged that YOU are encouraged.

jc -

I'm not a Doug Gottlieb fan, and he's generally been very critical of Baker because he's good friends with Cowherd, but I thought this was a really good take.