As for eating words, I don't think it was that kind of take. He wasn't overly critical of Baker.
Also, no one is eating words after week 2.
The performance against Cinci might not mean Baker has proven he is the answer as a franchise QB.... but there were a lot of posters that pronounced him a bust after week 1. Unequivocally. I know the Cinci D is not great - but there are a lot of QB's in the NFL that would not be capable of having the level of game Baker had against Cinci. . . . Let's hope the maturation and progress continues.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Baker is better for now. Burrow looked pretty good out there and it was his second game. I think Baker could be elite, but Burrow might get there too, and maybe sooner.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Rookie Joe Burrow couldn't sniff Rookie Baker Mayfield's underpants. Burrow isn't in the same zipcode as Rookie Baker. Baker took an 0-16 team to 7 wins. Let that sink in.
What's actually humorous to me are those who took Baker's earlier comments and spun them as immature while now they're taking his recent comments and spinning them that's he's matured. Please stop.
We drafted a flag-planting, crotch grabbing quarterback. We need that guy to return. I want my Baker Mayfield back. I want to win, not "look good" and lose.
these new few games are gonna say a lot about this team.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Eh.... I don't think it comes down to "the next few games". In a new system I think he'll get more rope than that. But who knows?
I do think it will boil down to this season though and maybe even by mid season or a little later. Now I don't want people to think that's my opinion of what "should happen". I just think the odds are high that it will.
And for exactly some of the reasons Cowherd stated. These guys didn't draft him. They don't have to make excuses for themselves as to whay he's here or why he should stay.
One thing I've learned after watching this game for so many years is that a new regime isn't going to lose their jobs losing games with the prior regimes QB. They'll use their own QB before they sit back and watch the ship sink.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I wouldn't discount any of that at all. These guys don't strike me as your typical egomaniac front office/coaching types; they're all mega-intelligent and only really care about whether or not the player will work.
To that end, I don't think bottom-line W-L results in 2020 are what will determine his future, but instead whether or not they see from him that he is grasping and executing the way they expect him to. I think that as long as he is showing a knowledgeable command of the offense and what he is supposed to be doing in it, then he is here for the long haul.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
--The stats on Baker under pressure are meaningful. Can't hide from those facts.
--I get that Dorsey drafted Baker, but Berry and Depo were there at the time and it was said that the entire organization was unanimous in wanting Baker. So, I'm not so sure the statement about Berry not drafting Baker applies as much as in other situations. Now, Berry and Depo might not have wanted Baker and they just went along w/the narrative to present a united front, but that's not a given.
--Personally, I think Baker will get the entire season unless he is totally stinking the joint up. He stunk last year. He stunk game one. But, he played well last week. As long as he has some good games, I figure that he gets the entire season. I could be wrong, but that is the way I see it.
Absolutely ... I have tried to stay away from all the Baker Drama, but he has shown enough to get an extended look and a fair evaluation... The rookie year was memorable, last year forgettable. I wasn’t to see how he performs under a stable coaching situation..
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
--The stats on Baker under pressure are meaningful. Can't hide from those facts.
--I get that Dorsey drafted Baker, but Berry and Depo were there at the time and it was said that the entire organization was unanimous in wanting Baker. So, I'm not so sure the statement about Berry not drafting Baker applies as much as in other situations. Now, Berry and Depo might not have wanted Baker and they just went along w/the narrative to present a united front, but that's not a given.
--Personally, I think Baker will get the entire season unless he is totally stinking the joint up. He stunk last year. He stunk game one. But, he played well last week. As long as he has some good games, I figure that he gets the entire season. I could be wrong, but that is the way I see it.
Good points about the FO then and now. IIRC, I thought it was mentioned at the time that Baker also hit it out of the park on the analytic side of things too?
Sometimes I wonder if we as a collective have over simplified the conversation about whether or not Baker will show he is "the guy". I think the conversation tends to focus too much on the extremes: is he going to take us tot he Super Bowl or are we destined for more double digit loss seasons? Clearly we hope for the former, but what if Baker turns out to be just.. ok?
If we go double digit losses with a large part of that being his performance its obviously easier to cut ties with him. But what if he ends up ono a Andy Dalton-sque trajectory... he can get us in the playoff hunt most years but just can't get us over the hump? What would we do then?
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
I am at the point where I give the guy the entire year unless he absolutely bombs. I don't think that will happen, though. I think he deserves a fair shot to prove he is the guy.
I have kinda given up on him being this great qb that so many thought he was. But, I don't think he has to be great. We have a ton of talent on O. Our skill guys are awesome and our OL is looking amazing. Baker just has to be competent. Thus, I think he will do well enough to keep the job all year.
The big question for me is whether or not they go all-in on the second contract? That's a much different question on him getting this entire year or being replaced.
If we go double digit losses with a large part of that being his performance its obviously easier to cut ties with him. But what if he ends up ono a Andy Dalton-sque trajectory... he can get us in the playoff hunt most years but just can't get us over the hump? What would we do then?
We? I don't know, I can't speak for everyone. Me personally? I'd be torn -- torn between shooting myself in the face and having my wife run me over in the driveway.
Baker is surrounded by a ton of talent right now, there is really no excuses at this point for failing the team. His interception last week was one of the worst QB decisions that I have probably seen in a long time and that is concerning because it has nothing to do with migrating to a new system. I would be shocked to see many mediocre college QBs make that same decision, so I am sure that Stefanski and Barry are wondering about what is between Baker's ears after that throw. If Baker can't understand situational football by this point, then he is simply not capable of grasping it and the organization will have to move on.
I agree on a lot of everyone's opinion on Baker...My fear is his ceiling may be that of maybe Andy Dalton...Maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick is a closer comp? His game needs to keep improving, because he has on hand I think perhaps the best supporting cast as far as weapons and protection are concerned.
I agree on a lot of everyone's opinion on Baker...My fear is his ceiling may be that of maybe Andy Dalton...Maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick is a closer comp? His game needs to keep improving, because he has on hand I think perhaps the best supporting cast as far as weapons and protection are concerned.
Baker has demonstrably more arm strength and arm talent than Dalton...Dalton played for one head coach his entire time in Cincy until/except last year when they foolishly and essentially discarded/gave-up-on him.
The comparisons to Dalton and Fitzpatrick are way off base IMO.
Not many Qbs of Baker's size have his arm talent. He's a difficult QB to draw comparisons to.
I agree on a lot of everyone's opinion on Baker...My fear is his ceiling may be that of maybe Andy Dalton...Maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick is a closer comp? His game needs to keep improving, because he has on hand I think perhaps the best supporting cast as far as weapons and protection are concerned.
Baker has demonstrably more arm strength and arm talent than Dalton...Dalton played for one head coach his entire time in Cincy until/except last year when they foolishly and essentially discarded/gave-up-on him.
The comparisons to Dalton and Fitzpatrick are way off base IMO.
Not many Qbs of Baker's size have his arm talent. He's a difficult QB to draw comparisons to.
I'm sure tru will clarify if needed but I think the comparison to Dalton and Fitzpatrick isn't a comparison of QB ability rather than comparing Baker to 2 guys who can carry a team through a season, but just can't quite get them beyond Week 17.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
I would say you are correct. Tru is a straight shooter who doesn't play agenda games. He is one of our better football minds on this board. I don't think he was comparing arm strength and other physical characteristics. Probably, just general overall effectiveness.
On the other hand, I can see why WSU took it that way and I am not bad-mouthing him, either.
I would say you are correct. Tru is a straight shooter who doesn't play agenda games. He is one of our better football minds on this board. I don't think he was comparing arm strength and other physical characteristics. Probably, just general overall effectiveness.
On the other hand, I can see why WSU took it that way and I am not bad-mouthing him, either.
Agreed on both counts.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
As others have stated (thank you Devil and Vers...I appreciate it, as always) My thinking was more Baker may be more than serviceable, but never elite or upper echelon. Dalton/Fitzpatrick comp was more based on that, and I think all can agree both those guys could get the job done, but then again won't ever be in the same breath as Brady/Brees (Baker had a lot of Drew Brees comps, coming to the NFL) And trust me I really hope I am wrong, last thing I want for OUR franchise is having to resort to drafting another QB at the top of the draft. I think he still has time to turn around, and I hope he does (as his supporting cast is perhaps the best in the league)
I can't put all the blame on Baker...I think the regression shown has been with the constant shuffling of philosophies, coaching, etc Continuity breeds consistency, and consistency breeds continuity...As an organization we never either, so obviously Baker probably won't have it as well.
But my hopes are that we found the right FO for this team...the right coach for this team...and the right QB for this team. I cannot wait for the day that we here, can sit and brag about our team...as it has been far too long for us all.
Reading thru some of these posts it's nice to see that most have limited the bashing of Baker. I'm thankful for that.
I understand the mild concerns. It would difficult for any quarterback to survive what Baker's endured his first 2+ season's. It's unprecedented. I'm confident Baker will come out off this on top. I'm sure no one thought Brady would be elite in his first couple of seasons either.
Browns fans have been patient but need to remain patient, changing quarterbacks and blowing this up, as has been much of the talk in recent years, would be bad. Stay the course, we are in great shape.
Browns fans have been patient but need to remain patient, changing quarterbacks and blowing this up, as has been much of the talk in recent years, would be bad. Stay the course, we are in great shape.
I agree but this will be dependent on Baker, number of wins, Stefanski, and Berry.
We need to have enough wins so that Stefanski and Berry aren't seduced by someone in the draft because it will be their guy.
Was listening to Ken Carmen this morning. Also watched a YouTube clip of Dan Orlovsky's take on Baker's play yesterday.
On the Ken Carmen show most callers were acting like we lost the game. People are very upset that we are winning and it's not because of Baker. The town has been starved for a franchise QB for so long that anything less is a failure. Orlovsky basically commented on how Baker is being asked to run a system, not be a quarterback.
However on both shows they all agreed it doesn't have to be that way forever. Baker won't always just be running a system. He will eventually be quarterbacking it if you develop and build it up the right way.
Baker is two years behind because of the upheaval with coaching staffs and FOs. Hopefully his trajectory is like Josh Allen's. No one was wrong about Josh Allen. He came into the league with an incredible physical skill set and a bunch of question marks around quarterbacking, all of which were legit. But the Bills have brought him up and developed him the right way. Unfortunately the Browns just weren't as stable Baker's first two years.
I am going to be uber critical of Baker's play every week, but I hope I don't lose sight of this. I hope Stefanski and Berry don't either.
We need to have enough wins so that Stefanski and Berry aren't seduced by someone in the draft because it will be their guy.
I don't know that we're in danger of seeing this. Baker was one of the reasons why coaches wanted to come here. The quarterback position wasn't seen as a liability. To give up on a guy as talented as Baker and have to develop another quarterback could be detrimental. This team is meant to win and win big within the next couple of years.
I just want to say that I certainly didn't take offense to your Baker comparison...I was just throwing my thoughts out there.
No issues whatsoever, sorry if it was confusing (when I reread it, I can see why it seemed that way as well) Hopefully he keeps on improving, and we can finally all enjoy a successful team.
Neither Allen nor Jackson would be doing here what they're doing elsewhere.
This is the biggest problem for fans. They just see a quarterback we "passed over" doing really well while we struggle with the one we drafted. I can assure you had we drafted Lamar Jackson he wouldn't have been the league MVP last season.
I'd hate to bring it up again because of the consequences, but imagine where we'd be had we hired McDermott to coach instead of Hue.
On the Ken Carmen show most callers were acting like we lost the game. People are very upset that we are winning and it's not because of Baker.
Orlovsky basically commented on how Baker is being asked to run a system, not be a quarterback.
On the first point I quoted you on - that's just totally whack as far as I am concerned. Fans should be happy we are winning. I prefer that to losing while watching a great QB performance.
On the second point, I agree 100%. Stefanski is coaching Baker to be a QB that plays the offensive system... I think it's what any ROOKIE in a well run stable franchise would have to do ... and then from there, once the system is grasped and skills/chemistry/timing/knowledge/instincts have developed and refined .... you let the young QB cut loose a little more. Just me but I think this is what Baker has clearly lacked since joingin the NFL ... Just me, but I think some of the slowness in Baker's progressions is because he is being asked to THINK first and foremost. As long as we are winning and Baker isn't throwing Ints and costing us the game I think in the LONG TERM this will aid him and the Browns.
Lack of processing speed IS absolutely a concern - and I agree with others that have said that this attribute is somewhat innate. But I also think that any ability Baker has in processing post snap along with going through progressions has been hampered tremendously by being on his 4th HC in 3 years and by what Stefanski is trying force him to do now, which is long term good for Baker but doesn't let Baker free wheel and try to "ball".
But then I am optimistic on Baker's ceiling being higher than what we currently see. I actually want him to succeed and STAY with the team. Not everyone shares that perspective.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
If Baker stays with the team it means both he and the team will be doing well. It means we will be making progress. I really don't feel there are any Browns fans that are actually rooting for it to turn out differently than that.
I love that from every indication we see and from what he has, and in some cases hasn't said, that he is even more dedicated to the game than ever. I think we are seeing signs of that dedication on the field.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
We've seen posters state that their #1 loyalty is the Buckeyes and they can't wait till Baker is gone. I think there are a handful of posters whose evaluation of Baker and desire for him to succeed are influenced by "Baker the Person"
The more things change the more they stay the same.
