DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mayfield Says He "Absolutely" Doubted Himself Last Year

I think the biggest problem is that Baker thrived in a system that was extremely simplified and geared toward his strengths, but wasn't geared toward sustainable success in the NFL. We became used to his success in that system and expected that out of him on a consistent basis in 2019, and again this year.

Since then, Freddie implemented a more NFL pro-style of offense, which caused more of a learning curve with Baker. There was the double-edged sword of Baker needing to evolve into the system while Freddie was overwhelmed with calling plays and sticking to his game plan. What's more is that Lindley was a bad QB coach. Baker definitely had his own issues in adapting to this style, but this whole dynamic stunted his growth as well, and shunted his confidence.

Now Baker is in yet another system. He has shown some great throws and displays a great arm. He also has shown some increase in his ability to read through progressions, but also struggles very much with it at times. He definitely needs to show improvement in certain areas to make him an elite, NFL-style QB. If that is slow and gradual, I'm fine with it, as long as it is continuous overall improvement.

I really hope things slow down for him on the field, to use the terminology that Vers did.

I try to ignore you, but man..........you are constantly telling lies.

Show us proof of this:

[1] I'm not trolling through posts to verify this. But you've insinuated this ... does it really matter that much? I guess I'll give it 3 or 4 minutes tonight.

[2] Isn't it telling that you refute that you've indicated that your number 1 loyalty is the Buckeyes but pass on the point that you can't wait till Baker has gone from the team?

Have you ever considered just voicing your own opinions and allowing others to voice theirs? Why does everything have to be a war? Baker will not be a better player just because you convince others that I don't like him. I have absolutely nothing to do w/his performance. Grow the hell up.

Btw---I am not responding to you again because it will only result in another war that will ruin yet another thread. But, I never said that thing about the Buckeyes. It's something you and another poster made up.

For being in his third season, man he definitely does not trust his eyes. With the success of Josh Allen right now I can definitely see why people would say we made the wrong pick, but let's be serious for a second:

The Bills are actually a very solid organization right now as a whole. We have had what 3? 4? Regime changes since McDermott was hired in Buffalo. Allen has had the same staff and the same system more or less his entire career to this point. I don't think Allen would be what he is here, I just don't.

Ever started a new job and it just seems like you can't possibly remember all this crap? Then 3 years later you throw away that notepad because it's all second nature now? Baker has started a new job every off-season.

I agree with the patience comment, but that's contingent on Baker showing something over the course of the season. I know we argue the "he doesn't know the system yet and has to think too much out there" theory, but let's just say we take that assumption... that would mean he should show tangible improvement as he gets more and more comfy within the system and with his receivers. If he's still not trusting his eyes, struggling with staring down receivers, etc at the end of the year like he sometimes does now, I can tell you I'll be impatient. If he's doing all of that, and we're in position to make a play for a legit QB prospect (which means the season went really poorly), then I'll be very impatient.

Next 3 games are huge.

We could be staring at 2-4.

The colts game is huge IMO. That can save us at 3-3 and then we have a stretch of 50/50 type games

I saw a thing earlier today that we have the 4th easiest remaining schedule in the league. So, that's good.

Well, Baker did make the last HC lose his job... And its not the HC job to make sure he is in top form when he starts teh season.

3 years in the league and Baker still can't figure out when he is out of the pocket or where his O is lining up...

Baker has no talent, he has no work ethic, and he has no drive anymore... he is just a meh QB...

What’s this?

2-4?

I concede nothing until I have to.
Which is often, lol.

The Cowboys are average. we can beat Dallas... let’s see if they’re capable of stopping our ground game for 60 minutes.

I just re-watched the game was going to comment on the high number of accurate passes Baker made ... he was not perfect but his struggles came when under pressure. That seems like something that is still a hangover from last year when I think he was statistically worst in the NFL under pressure ... he's running when he doesn't need to and the accuracy is way off. The near interception where OBJ made a great play to swat the ball down was on a play where Baker was under pressure, as were the other bad throws. But man he threw the ball really nicely on when it was on time/in time/decent protection.

The replay was on the Sunday Ticket app so they don't show slow mo replays ... last week I saw at least 3 plays where Baker went to a 2nd or 3rd read, I couldn't tell from the replay today if he made any progressions, but it was a decent performance.

All Qb's can play great without pressure... Its how you play under pressure that defines a great QB. Baker is the least athletic player on the field, and his football IQ is not very high...

No - they most 100% definitely don't and can't.

I agree that playing great under pressure might separate the good from the great. But the book isn't written on Baker. If you don't want to consider his 4th HC in his 3rd year (4th HC in essentially 2 years and 3 games) a factor worthy of consideration in this discussion ... we can disagree. If you don't think the CV-19 impacted training camp is a limiting factor ... we can disagree. And if you don't think a new O and no pre-season games is a factor ... we can disagree. Lots to like about what Baker has done this year, and lots to improve in order for him to be a legit franchise QB.

Jc

I get the argument that as long as we’re winning, it doesn’t matter if baker mayfield turns out to be a game manager.

That’s cool, and I agree. But just like Devil made the very credible point that OBJ can be both a distraction and a good teammate, that same logic says that while we can win a title with a game manager, you don’t draft a game manager #1 overall.

And i openly admit that the new game manager label on baker upsets me because we could’ve had Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, or Allen as our QB. But instead, we drafted a guy #1 overall that just really isn’t special. He’s short, not athletic, doesn’t have the strongest if arm, and doesn’t even have great pocket awareness.

And what sucks even more is that he USED to have great pocket awareness. it completely disappeared, and I don’t know why.

He’s bailing out of clean pockets. We all watched him run into a sack yesterday, just like he did against the rams last season.

Look, we have great talent around him and a good OL. So baker should be good enough to lead us to the playoffs, and I will always take that.

But I just can’t help but watch the QBs who are actually special that we damn well could’ve drafted and dream about how much better our team would’ve been.

So it’s cool he’s our QB. But Kirk cousins was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. Case Keenum went undrafted for a reason.

I just don’t believe he’s a #1 overall kind of QB.

Did you think he was a #1 overall talent in 2018?

Maybe he can recapture that.

That guy's voice sounds like someone that has people locked up in his basement!

Because of his accuracy in college, yes.

But you know who I wanted #1 overall that draft.

I guess it doesn’t matter anymore, but I do wonder if he’s about to get the Dak Prescott treatment by the FO.

LOL...the Jets are really pathetic. But, it went Dallas, Cinci, Can't Remember, Cleveland, and I think Baltimore.

Swish, here are some of my thoughts on Baker, the game manager, and your post.

--I don't think his pocket presence was ever very good in the pros. He looks good when his first read is open. He often loses his downfield sight lines when he has to go to his second or third target. Btw...I haven't seen the plays where he went to his third read multiple times against the Bengals. I could be wrong, but I didn't see those plays. I think Baker can improve in this area. He needs to learn to step-up in the pocket and/or take a step or two in either direction. Dropping his head and running in those little loops or circles are a no-no, because he is not the runner that guys like Russ, Lamar, Rodgers, Mahomes, Cam, etc are. I said it after his rookie year, I wish he would spend time w/a qb coach in the off-season working on his footwork. That would help both in the pocket and w/his throwing motion. I know he worked on some pre-snap footwork things that Van Pelt came up with, but I'm talking about post-snap things.

--Game managers are fine, I guess. But, will Baker be the kind of qb who doesn't throw picks? I don't know the answer to that.

--My biggest thing is that to be a really good team, you need your qb to make plays in big moments of the game. Baker's inability to read post-snap coverages makes me wonder if he will ever be that guy. I am not ruling it out, but I just haven't seen it yet. And we really haven't seen him making plays in clutch situations. Thus far, it seems like Baker does well when we are rolling against lesser teams. He has not been at his best when we are playing good teams and we needed him to make plays in big moments.

--My bottom line is that this year should answer a lot of questions. He might succeed in the areas I mentioned above. I just haven't seen him do it yet.

I think the type of pressure also plays a role. If a D is trying to blitz you to death, that's exploitable. Finding the open guy (because there is one coming from the area of the blitzer) is much easier than when a teams front is just naturally getting pressure via their front.

Baker is the best rated QB in the AFC.

https://twitter.com/CLE_SPORTS_FANS/status/1310983798943866880

AFC North QB ratings through week 3:

Baker Mayfield - 75.6
Lamar Jackson - 69.7
Joe Burrow - 51.6
Big Ben - 51

It's early and a lot can happen - plus we've just played two pretty poor teams - But damn, I coulda sworn I've seen multiple posters state as fact that Baker is already the 4th best QB in the AFC North.

QBR and QB rating are not the same thing.

Not to mention that we essentially just played the equivalent of our 3rd Preseason game. Hopefully we keep showing progression and development of talent - something we've singularly failed to do for so so so many years. Early indications are that Stefanski is destined to be a good HC - even if he stumbles and falls in Cleveland, he looks like he belongs in the NFL as HC from the little we've seen so far. jmo

Pitts has played two pretty poor teams, and one wonders who Houston is this year. That is yet to be determined.

No kidding huh, they are a real head scratcher. Unlike Wentz who seems to be a real ? as to how good he is, Watson seems legitimately very good. I think it's their HC that is holding them back ... but we'll see.

j/c:

For some perspective:

Baker is ranked 27th out of 35 ranked qbs by PFF.

Eh, we'll never know, but what if we had hired Stefanski in 2019? Surely we could unanimously agree we'd be way ahead of where we are now. To quote a great philosopher: "It is what it is."

Here's to continued progress.