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Yes..... and I'm waiting 9 more games.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Play well, not necessarily win.
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All Pro
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I'm not anointing him anything...he's far exceeded any expectations I had of him is all.
He could easily stink it up the rest of the way, but I feel alot better about him going out there than I did 3 weeks ago.
If he plays well enough to keep Quinn on the bench I'm happy. I think he will.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Quote:
Except that in the three games DA has played against the Bengals, Dolphins and Rams (three of the worst defenses in the league with a 2-21 combined record), DA has put up 11 TDs and 1 INT. Outside of those games, he's 6 TD and 7 INT. Let's see him keep it going against Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore again before we crown him.
So, you're saying that his numbers are better against weaker defenses. What a coincidence! Is that not true of most any qb? Are Montana's numbers tainted because he played weak Rams, Falcons and Saints teams twice a year?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Are Montana's numbers tainted because he played weak Rams, Falcons and Saints teams twice a year?
yes...and the hall of fame should place his bust beside the hand towel dispencer in the men restroom on the west side of the hall.
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Quote:
So, you're saying that his numbers are better against weaker defenses. What a coincidence! Is that not true of most any qb? Are Montana's numbers tainted because he played weak Rams, Falcons and Saints teams twice a year?
It's true of every QB, but I don't know that another QB in the league has as big of a disparity as Anderson does. I'm just gonna copy this from another thread I posted it in.
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DA versus Miami, Cincinnati and St. Louis (combined 2-21 record)
56 for 83, 824 yards, 67.4% completion, 11 TD, 1 INT, 134.3 QB rating
DA versus Baltimore, Oakland, Pittsburgh and New England (combined 19-10)
63 for 126, 923 yards, 50.0% completion, 6 TD, 7 INT, 67.0 QB rating
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Anderson's rating against some of the league's worst defenses is literally double what it is against some of the league's more proven ones. Think it's more than coincidence that "good DA" normally shows up against horrid defenses and "bad DA" normally shows up against the better defenses he's faced? All the fluff pieces I've read so far talk about how much he's matured because he shed the on/off performances and put up two good games in a row. Again, think it's more than coincidence that the two teams he did it against are 0-8? The Baltimore game is the lone exception this year, and that's EXACTLY what I want to see more of (even if the Ravens were missing Rolle and Pryce at the time).
I look at his stats against the cream puffs and I drool. I look at his stats against the better competition and I cringe. If he keeps hot against Seattle, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, probably our last tough stretch this year, he'll have made a believer out of me. Until then, I just can't help think that the stat padding he did is giving many among us big heads about a QB we almost cut in the pre-season.
DA is markedly improved and has been a great surprise at QB, no doubt about it, but unless he impresses in the next three weeks in real tests, I'm not going to look at him as anything more than a solid backup or trade bait.
We're... we're good?
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Does he have to win them or just play well?
He has to win by 40+ pts a game, no INT's and at least 1 rushing TD of more than 30 yards. 
Oh, and fewer than 2 sacks. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
DA versus Miami, Cincinnati and St. Louis (combined 2-21 record)
56 for 83, 824 yards, 67.4% completion, 11 TD, 1 INT, 134.3 QB rating
DA versus Baltimore, Oakland, Pittsburgh and New England (combined 19-10)
63 for 126, 923 yards, 50.0% completion, 6 TD, 7 INT, 67.0 QB rating
Do you know what is absolutely fantastic about statistics? The very same ones you posted, if manipulated differently, look like this...
DA versus Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Miami, Cincinnati and St. Louis (combined 11-26 record)
79 for 129, 1209 yards, 61.3% completion, 14 TD, 3 INT, 118.7 QB rating
DA versus Oakland and New England (combined 10-5)
40 for 80, 535 yards, 50.0% completion, 3 TD, 5 INT, 58.1 QB rating
So the conclusion one could derive from this is that DA had one bad game against a team who is not the Patriots....
yebat' Putin
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So the conclusion one could derive from this is that DA had one bad game against a team who is not the Patriots....
Except that your statistics show a lie whereas mine are more indicative of the truth. DA has absolutely padded his stats against three of the worst defenses in the league. He had one good game in Baltimore where he wasn't outstanding, but very efficient. Other than that, he's gotten smoked by Pittsburgh, New England and Oakland. The fact that you can include Pittsburgh and Baltimore in with those three games and he STILL comes out smelling like a rose tells me (and would tell you if you bothered look into it) just how much of a weight those easy games have on his stats.
We're... we're good?
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Spectre, not many QB's have outstanding games against the Ravens. So any good game from our QB against a division rivalry is great too me. As far as the other worst teams you speak of, well he (DA) should be able to pad stats against teams like that. All in all I think DA deserves to be resigned, if he doesn't keep the starting job, which I don't really see how he can but stranger things have happened, then he should be our backup. We have a good, young solid one, two punch with DA and Quinn, we should not break that up....UNLESS....some team makes an insane offer for DA, which I don't see happening.
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Quote:
Except that your statistics show a lie whereas mine are more indicative of the truth.
How can one be a lie and one be the truth? We started with the same set of numbers, you added yours together one way, I added mine together a different way... I didn't change the numbers, I didn't take any out or put any in... I used all the same numbers you did......
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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You used evil magic. 
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All in all I think DA deserves to be resigned, if he doesn't keep the starting job, which I don't really see how he can but stranger things have happened, then he should be our backup. We have a good, young solid one, two punch with DA and Quinn, we should not break that up....UNLESS....some team makes an insane offer for DA, which I don't see happening.
The problem with the DA situation is that there are really only a few scenarios IMO that don't involve trading him.
1) We tender DA high enough that no team matches and DA has another good year. DA is ours for that year, but after that, if we aren't willing to commit to him as a starter (and in this scenario we aren't), he leaves and we get nothing in return.
2) We tender DA high enough that no team matches and DA regresses to the point that he's only a league backup. We can then re-sign him to a longer deal to back up Quinn and we have our two quarterbacks.
3) We tender DA high enough that no team matches and DA regresses back to awful. We've just missed a golden opportunity to trade a guy at the peak of his value and now we're in the search for a backup.
4) We re-sign DA to a long-term deal (either in '08 or '09), which hinges on our willingness to promise him the starting job. If we re-sign DA to a starter level long-term deal, it means we have to get rid of Quinn, as he isn't going to want to stick around to play backup either.
In scenario 1, it's not worth keeping DA because he'll be a one-year rental player. Why would we want to groom another team's starting QB without getting anything for him?
Scenario 2 is the ideal for those that want to keep both QBs... but one person's ideal scenario involves DA regressing? That's not good...
Scenario 3 is the worst case scenario and I sure hope it doesn't come to that, though I doubt it will.
Scenario 4 is only good if DA is the next Tom Brady (which I can't see) because we'd lose Quinn. DA pimps probably love this one, but how likely is it that DA is the next surprise QB in the league?
or....
We can trade him, put the future in Quinn's hands, get a nice draft pick, and sign a capable veteran backup. If you're a believer in Quinn's ability (which I am), the trade scenario is the best of both worlds. Then again... it depends on how highly you view DA I suppose.
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
How can one be a lie and one be the truth? We started with the same set of numbers, you added yours together one way, I added mine together a different way... I didn't change the numbers, I didn't take any out or put any in... I used all the same numbers you did......
It's called correlation.
I separated my passing defenses by defenses I believe to be challenges versus defenses I believe to be awful (and the stats agree with me) - they are in distinct, correlated groups. There is absolutely no correlation between some of the teams in your one group, because you just assembled them in a random fashion to try to poke a hole through a point that is very irrefutable at this point.
There's a HUGE difference in what I did versus what you did.
We're... we're good?
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
How can one be a lie and one be the truth? We started with the same set of numbers, you added yours together one way, I added mine together a different way... I didn't change the numbers, I didn't take any out or put any in... I used all the same numbers you did......
It's called correlation.
I separated my passing defenses by defenses I believe to be challenges versus defenses I believe to be awful (and the stats agree with me) - they are in distinct, correlated groups. There is absolutely no correlation between some of the teams in your one group, because you just assembled them in a random fashion to try to poke a hole through a point that is very irrefutable at this point.
There's a HUGE difference in what I did versus what you did.
So you did what you thought, THOUGHT was a fact, grouped'em together and said this is unchanged fact?
You say he hasn't done well against good D's, DC just SHOWED you that he has...but you say it's not fact because it's his opinion.
you had a good run Hank.
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So you did what you thought, THOUGHT was a fact, grouped'em together and said this is unchanged fact?
I didn't see fact but..in reality the defenses he used to show Anderson's lower ratings ARE the better defenses on our schedule..don't see how anyone can argue that.
We have yet to play Seattle plus Pukesbugh/Bmore again..the better defenses left on the schedule.
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but the fact that you can look to two games this year in which DA has played bad and then the rest he has a QB rating over 110...idk
DA played well vs Ravens, Miami, STL, and Cincy.
Last I checked the Ravens haven't been too shaby on D this year. I can honestly say Miami and Cincy are pure garbage. I think the key is the past two games where he has had great numbers and the big key, a good game on the road vs an average NFL defense.
DA isn't just a flash in the pan right now, he is actually sustaining the production...if he does well against SEA, we should really start to reconsider the whole DA vs BQ thing.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 10/30/07 04:41 PM.
you had a good run Hank.
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What I looked at and did see were the top teams we have played...and for those defenses we won 1 game WHICH WAS Bmore...he didn't play great just good enough...
THATS the measure I'm looking at for the next three weeks , how he plays against those top teams starting with Seattle..
Here's the factor no one is talking about because 98% of the people are glued to just looking at him...
If we had just a average defense it would factor in the wins..he could stink up the joint and we could still be close..
Since the D has more gaps than the Hoover Dam, if he implodes can we still win?
Whats needed is the continued varied attack but our running game better hit the ceiling..we'll need it.
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Quote:
Quote:
Except that your statistics show a lie whereas mine are more indicative of the truth.
How can one be a lie and one be the truth? We started with the same set of numbers, you added yours together one way, I added mine together a different way... I didn't change the numbers, I didn't take any out or put any in... I used all the same numbers you did......
Because you didn't agree with him ... of course.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
So you did what you thought, THOUGHT was a fact, grouped'em together and said this is unchanged fact?
You say he hasn't done well against good D's, DC just SHOWED you that he has...but you say it's not fact because it's his opinion.
DC didn't show anyone anything because he purposely skewed his statistics just to try to devalue mine. I didn't group my defenses at random.
DA has done well against a good defense. Singular. ...and that defense was missing Samari Rolle and Trevor Pryce. The fact that DA has only done well against bad defenses and poorly against good defenses in a disproportionate fashion (save the Baltimore example) is the elephant in the room. Many people see it, but no one wants to say anything because they're so excited about how the Browns are above .500; anything said in persepective is instantly attacked and ignored.
Take a look at the power rankings link in the Seattle gameday forum for example.
Quote:
13 (19) Browns 4-3-0 The Browns' last two wins have come against the league's two winless teams, but who cares? It's the first time since 2003 that Cleveland has won two straight games.
When is the last time you heard anyone gush about two straight wins against 0-8 teams, let alone from a team that is 13th in a power ranking? I know we were bad and we should enjoy the taste of victory, but our "accomplishment" is something any other competitive team in the league would be disappointed if they couldn't pull off.
IMO, it's time we stopped thinking like the loser that's been so starved for anything positive - we'll take it and be satisfied - and start thinking like an up and coming team that has already achieved many goals for this season, and now have their sights set on something bigger.
I want to see Anderson step up to the plate in the next 3 weeks because if we get beaten in 3 straight, these last few weeks of beatdown against the league's punching bags will lose a ton of meaning. I'm not content in our starting QB getting killed in 3 of his 4 starts against legitimate opponents while pumping his overall stats up against cupcakes.
Are you?
We're... we're good?
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Again... if you look at the picture without your brown and orange tinted glasses on, you'll see something around what I see. Even if you think the situation's a bit rosier because you have more confidence in Anderson, you need to realize that what we've done thus far (beating 4 teams with a combined 6 wins) is NOTHING to a competitive team... and if we want to be one, we need to enjoy it and then move on to bigger and better things. It's a shame a lot of people are so comfortable with them on and a set of blinders to match.
We're... we're good?
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Oh please.  You didn't group them together to show a slant? Yeah ... and I'm a liberal Democrat.  OK ..... here's a stat for you. For the season, ALL of the teams we have played have allowed a combined QB Rating of 80.5. Anderson's is 95.5 for the season. That's a to date season look at things, without including or excluding any team .... without grouping anything with or without anything ...... just a look at stats and stats alone for the entire season to date ..... which removes any bias and/or slant ....... which is what you wanted to do ..... isn't it?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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and for those defenses we won 1 game WHICH WAS Bmore...he didn't play great just good enough...
Good enough to be winning 20-6 at halftime...
yebat' Putin
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and for those defenses we won 1 game WHICH WAS Bmore...he didn't play great just good enough...
Good enough to be winning 20-6 at halftime...
Damn him anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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you know what the bottom line in all this is?
when da doesn't screw up we can win....if he throws picks and gives a team a short field we have a difficult time stopping them..
we gave the raiders a bunch of points...and almost came back
pitt just killed us...
and the pats got a ton of points off turnovers....that was the difference imo....
now one could argue that if he doesn't make those mistakes we can beat those better teams...and on the flip side those d's are good because they cause those turnovers...
we aren't good enough to over come mistakes vs good teams...we almost blew it with the rams....
we don't dominate, we have to have things go our way...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
DA versus Oakland and New England (combined 10-5)
40 for 80, 535 yards, 50.0% completion, 3 TD, 5 INT, 58.1 QB rating
So the conclusion one could derive from this is that DA had one bad game against a team who is not the Patriots....
When judging Anderson's performance against the Patriots, lets average the performances of all 8 QBs who have played against the NE pass defense,
...they average 59.7 completion percentage..Anderson completed 51.2% against the Pats.
...teams average 181.5 yds against the Pats pass D...Anderson passed for 287 yds against the Pats.
...teams average 1.25 TDs passing against the Pats...Anderson passed for 2 TDs against the Pats.
...teams average 1.375 Ints against the Pats...Anderson threw 3 Ints against the Pats.
...teams QBs rate an average of 73 against the Pats...Anderson's QB rating against the Pats was 59.
...the Pats pass defense rates 5th in the NFL at this time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anderson's performance against the Raiders vs the average of all 7 QBs that have played against the Raiders pass defense...
...the average completion % against the Raiders pass D is 59.6...Anderson averaged 48.6 against the Raiders
...teams average 178.7 yds per game against the Raiders pass D...Anderson passed for 248 yds against the Raiders
...the Raiders give up .857 passing TDs per game...Anderson threw 1 TD against the Raiders pass D
...the Raiders pick off an average of 1.42 passes per game...Anderson threw 2 Ints against the Raiders
...teams QBs rate an average of 69 against the Raiders...Anderson's passer rating against the Raiders was 57.
...the Raiders pass defense is ranked 3rd in the NFL at this time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just trying to put Anderson's poor performances against NE and Oak in proper perspective. These are two of the toughest pass defenses in the NFL. It is clear that Anderson does need to improve and he should as he gains more experience.
...WOOF...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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DC didn't show anyone anything because he purposely skewed his statistics just to try to devalue mine.
I skewed MINE? I used all of mine without qualification or explanation... you're the one who has placed some "mediocre" value on the Baltimore performance and stated who was injured and blahblahblah because that example doesn't fit your "facts"... yea, that's really letting the stats speak for themselves... yet you haven't mentioned the Pittsburgh game (other than to say he "got smoked against Pittsburgh")... He was losing 17-0 in the second quarter when he stepped on the field... but don't let a little thing like that get in the way of your objective truth...
So I'll tell you what, let's do it this way then,
Tom Brady put up 34 on the Bengals, Big Ben put up 24... Anderson put up 51.
Anderson put up 27 against the Ravens... their season high. Not bad for a mediocre "efficient" game...
yebat' Putin
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DA versus Miami, Cincinnati and St. Louis (combined 2-21 record)
56 for 83, 824 yards, 67.4% completion, 11 TD, 1 INT, 134.3 QB rating
DA versus Baltimore, Oakland, Pittsburgh and New England (combined 19-10)
63 for 126, 923 yards, 50.0% completion, 6 TD, 7 INT, 67.0 QB rating
I'm not a STAT guy but there's TWO that DO MEAN ALOT...
1) QB Completion %
2) QB Rating
The above stats from Spectre are EXACTLY why NOTHING is set in stone with Anderson people...
WATCH THE NEXT 3 GAMES CLOSELY...
These 3 games will tell us alot about where we stand as a football team and at the QB spot...
Anderson isn't a dead commodity nor is he the next best thang...
In the last 3 games his BONE HEAD throws have decreased significantly...Is it because we've played BONE HEAD Defenses or is he finally gettin' it???
Answer to come...
Go Browns!!!
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Oh please. You didn't group them together to show a slant? Yeah ... and I'm a liberal Democrat.
I already said it once in this thread... I grouped it based on good/bad pass defenses, and that was without even looking at stats. Let me show you what QB ratings they allow and maybe it'll become clearer.
Classified as bad pass defenses:
Miami - 102.6 (31st)
Cincinnati - 100.6 (30th)
St. Louis - 92.2 (22nd)
Classified as good pass defenses:
Oakland - 69.0 (2nd)
New England - 73.0 (5th)
Pittsburgh - 75.3 (8th)
Baltimore - 71.8 (4th)
Please tell me how that's slanted in the slightest (unlike DC's that's ridiculously and purposefully so) and I'll change my groups in a heartbeat.
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OK ..... here's a stat for you.
For the season, ALL of the teams we have played have allowed a combined QB Rating of 80.5.
Anderson's is 95.5 for the season.
That's a to date season look at things, without including or excluding any team .... without grouping anything with or without anything ...... just a look at stats and stats alone for the entire season to date ..... which removes any bias and/or slant ....... which is what you wanted to do ..... isn't it?
No, it actually does the complete opposite. Let's take my groupings from up top (which if you haven't figured it out now are completely unbiased) and see how DA did against both good and bad to find out if his passer rating versus passer rating allowed is dependent on the level of competition.
The bad teams:
Miami - 102.6 ------------------ DA - 142.5 (+39.9)
Cincinnati - 100.6 ------------- DA - 121.0 (+20.4)
St. Louis - 92.2 ---------------- DA - 143.0 (+50.8)
The good teams:
Oakland - 69.0 --------------- DA - 57.0 (-12.0)
New England - 73.0 ---------- DA - 59.0 (-14.0)
Pittsburgh - 75.3 ------------ DA - 65.2 (-10.1)
Baltimore - 71.8 ------------- DA - 109.5 (+37.7)
DA lights up the cupcakes and I mean absolutely obliterates them... he crushes them by so much, it inflates his stats and makes people forget about the games in the second category. He's underperformed, not just in comparison to his own performance, but in comparison to the rest of the league in every game against a competitive defense, except versus Baltimore (which I already mentioned as the exception to my rule in the first place).
I want to see him play better versus COMPETITION, not punching bags. When he does that, then I'll hop aboard the bandwagon. These next three weeks are crucial. Watch how he does against the only competitive teams to see if he's REALLY grown. Beating up on 0-8 teams back to back is hardly an intelligent benchmark.
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Here's the problem with your "classifications" argument .....
What is a good defense, and what is a bad defense?
Is it total passing defense? If so, then according to CBS Sportsline, If so, then we have faced #3,4,5,7.9.12. and 28.
Pittsburgh has allowed 7 passing TDs in 7 games. 1 belongs to Anderson in partial game duty.
Cincinnati has allowed 18 in 7 games. 5 belong to Anderson.
Oakland has allowed 6 in 7 games. Anderson has 1 of those.
Baltimore has allowed 8 in 7 games. Anderson has 2 of those.
New England has allowed 10 in 8 games. Anderson has 2 of those.
Miami has allowed 15 in 8 games. Anderson had 3.
St Louis has allowed 12 in 8 games, with Anderson having 3 of those.
I'll take above average scoring production over anything else.
Points production:
Pittsburgh allows 13 per game. We scored 7.
Cincinnati allows 30 per game. We scored 51.
Oakland allows 22 per game. We scored 24.
Baltimore allows 17 per game. We scored 27.
New England allows 15 per game. We scored 17
Miami allows 30 per game. We scored 41.
St Louis allows 27 per game. We scored 27.
So .... in the Pittsburgh game we scored less than the league averages against them. We scored exactly what the league scores against St. Louis. We outperformed the league against everybody else as far as points go.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What in the world is Browns football coming to.......
"There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There's no knowing where we're rowing
Or which way the river's flowing
Is it raining?
Is it snowing?
Is a hurricane a-blowing?
Not a speck of light is showing
So the danger must be growing
Are the fires of hell a-glowing?
Is the grisly reaper mowing?
Yes, the danger must be growing
'Cause the rowers keep on rowing
And they're certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing!"
#gmstrong
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Again, your not taking into consideration who these defenses have played against.
The one I'm talking about is St. Louis. Look who they have gone against and look what their averages are against other teams. I posted this in another thread. St. Louis's D is actually holding most of those QB's below their average.
That would make St. Louis's D better than you make it out to be.
#gmstrong
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What in the world is Browns football coming to.......
It's coming to the point where if a player does good, it's because of someone else, and if he does bad it's because of someone else. 
There are so many personal agendas filling these boards, I think more posters are about their fantasy teams or fantasy stats, that they really can't even enjoy watching the team win. 
Lewis is out of gas, Anderson plays against bad defenses, Edwards still drops passes, Bodden isn't a shut down corner anymore, RAC can't coach, Grantham needs fired, Jones lost his talent, Pool sucks, Eric Wright can't turn around, Harrison can't block, Wimbley only has one move, McGinnest is old,JJ is injury prone, Winslow can't block,defense misses Russell,Tucker is better than Schaffer, McKinney is a lousy run blocker, etc.....etc...etc.....
Wait, actually nothing is changing, still the same fickle Browns fans who never seem to be happy. Maybe a good losing streak will make em happy 
#gmstrong
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Wait, actually nothing is changing, still the same fickle Browns fans who never seem to be happy. Maybe a good losing streak will make em happy
Don't count me in that group.. I'm tickled pink we are 4 - 3 with 23 touchdowns.. the best TD record in the AFC North!
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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These 3 games will tell us alot about where we stand as a football team and at the QB spot...
Anderson isn't a dead commodity nor is he the next best thang...
In the last 3 games his BONE HEAD throws have decreased significantly...Is it because we've played BONE HEAD Defenses or is he finally gettin' it???
Answer to come...
This, I agree with. I love what DA has done so far, but am nowhere near sold. We'll see...
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Don't count me in that group.. I'm tickled pink we are 4 - 3 with 23 touchdowns.. the best TD record in the AFC North!
Heck...I couldn't be happier....I wasn't all that sure we would win 3 for the whole year at times....LOL.......Bottom Line is that we are an exciting Offense to watch.
DA's play and the OLine play have helped each other out. DA gets the ball out on-time...and the OLine gets the opportunity to keep a DLine off balance.
Because I tell you this....if the DLine got to do what they have done in years past....which is to just pin their ears back and go after the QB....this Oline couldn't hold that back...No ones could. But DA getting the Ball out quickly AND On-Time helps keep DLines honest and it allows the OLine to perform at a level it is capable of....which allows Anderson more time to play better. This issue is so cyclic it is mind boggling....
I will give credit to DA....he deserves it. He is doing better than I ever thought he could. We are seeing the kid who played vs KC last year...The kid is making good decisions, he is making accurate throws. He is LEADING this offense. He hasn't been perfect. No QB will be outside of Brady with the All Pro roster....But to expect him to be a finished product, to be perfect, and to be considered an elite QB in this league is absolutely laughable.
Now we have Spectre pulling the Menza Manipulation Theory to prove a point that doesn't need to be made. We get it...DA ISN'T PERFECT....(OK now like Ace Ventura, I take a super deep breath for the super huge run-on sentance about to come)You, like your stat manipulator pro predecessor, go completely out of your way to push numbers around in order to prove your point, that you have completely passed the fact that we are 4-3 (and if not for a blocked FG we would be 5-2) through a stretch of games, that had you asked any reasonable football mind before the season how many we could win, they would have said we had little hope to win 2 or even 1 of them..[PANT, PANT, PANT]
Geeze, how anyone couldn't be ecstatic over the play of the offense to this point is completely beyond me. They have surpassed expectations. And any expectations that were higher at that time are uncalled for and had no basis for justification.
Now the bar has been raised (the key word here is NOW...as in the present, not the past) We have to be consistant now, we have to continue to make plays vs stiffer defenses. But there is still no justification for expecting Anderson to be a completed project, perfect, or an etlite QB in this league.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I see what you are saying Spec, honestly, and using stats to augment your argument gives your argument validity. However, stats don’t always tell the complete picture, as I am sure you are aware.
Now we all know that the good DA, bad DA thing was pretty much the mode of operation when DA began the season, no question there. And we all know that he made throws that left most people shacking their heads, no question there.
That said people are still shacking their heads at the play of DA, but now it has turned into shacks of amazement. Take a look at the TD pass he threw to Winslow this past week along with some of the passes he has thrown to BE, and if they don’t make you shake your head, you’re not watching to close. Those throws over the past 2 games have been absolutely amazing, no question. Our receivers had the DB running to catch up and had their backs to DA and he just laid the ball right in, incredible throws, and throws that DA, couldn’t have thrown when the season started I don’t think. That’s called real honest to goodness progress. I’ll go one step further, I don’t care who you play, if DA can make throws like that, he is going to make that play. In fact on the occasions when he has made these throws, haven’t you been taken aback by the quality of the throw,? And don’t you think he can make that play against the best of defenses.?
Theirs another thing stats don’t show and that is the score of the game. Now most agree he had a pretty good game against the Ravens, but he was able to jump out to a lead, had he been trailing by that same amount it would have changed the entire complexion of the game. What I’m saying is, because he was able to get us a lead early, it allowed the offense to use its full arsenal of weapons. That wasn’t the case in the Pitt game, and hey he didn’t dig the hole, he just inherited it. Big difference between leading the game and trailing, I am sure you’re aware of that much, just pointing out the obvious. He did however dig a deep hole against NE, and although his mistakes lost us the game, he did do some positive things against a top ranked offense, it’s not like he didn’t do squat he just made a few mistakes, and it cost us the game. A further truth is though, a lot of QB’s have made mistakes against Pitt, and NE, they are the best of the best on defense, and it would be unrealistic to expect DA to put up numbers nearly as good against these teams. However, one would hope that he would be able to limit his mistakes, I agree..
The one and only question that remains in my mind as to whether DA is who I think we all hope he is, is this. Can he put the team on his back at crunch time and lead a game winning drive to close out a game, if he can do that he is every bit as good as they come. Make no mistake though, IMHO, most NFL QB’s don’t do well constantly playing from behind . The defense hasn’t exactly been setting the table for DA, and the offense if that could at least improve some it would limit the amount of chances the offense has to take with the ball.
I want to point out one other thing I have noticed about DA, he has put up some pretty good numbers in terms of the score, but if you look he doesn’t have huge numbers in terms of passing yards. What that says is that the offense is very efficient when they have the ball, and that is a very very good thing. Seldom do we punt, and seldom do we get a drive started that we don’t score point, all great things to be able to do, offensively. Now when we play the better teams if we can just get a middle of the road performance from the defense I think we can see a DA play like you want a QB to play. That is he doesn’t have to put the team on his back for us to win. That’s a problem for all young QB’s they generally need a good running game and a good defense. DA has the good running game, but no defense.
I wished they had a efficiency rating bet the Browns O would rank pretty high, and DA has played a pretty large roll in making the O as efficient as it has been
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Bravo! Well said Pete! We have 2 tough road / division games coming up. I'm going to be happy to split them, ecstatic to win both of them (and start saving my dollars to pay for playoff tickets) and bummed out to lose both. This offense is a young unit.. they haven't played all that long together and some bumps in the road are to be expected.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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DA versus Oakland and New England (combined 10-5)
40 for 80, 535 yards, 50.0% completion, 3 TD, 5 INT, 58.1 QB rating
So the conclusion one could derive from this is that DA had one bad game against a team who is not the Patriots....
When judging Anderson's performance against the Patriots, lets average the performances of all 8 QBs who have played against the NE pass defense,
...they average 59.7 completion percentage..Anderson completed 51.2% against the Pats.
...teams average 181.5 yds against the Pats pass D...Anderson passed for 287 yds against the Pats.
...teams average 1.25 TDs passing against the Pats...Anderson passed for 2 TDs against the Pats.
...teams average 1.375 Ints against the Pats...Anderson threw 3 Ints against the Pats.
...teams QBs rate an average of 73 against the Pats...Anderson's QB rating against the Pats was 59.
...the Pats pass defense rates 5th in the NFL at this time.
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Anderson's performance against the Raiders vs the average of all 7 QBs that have played against the Raiders pass defense...
...the average completion % against the Raiders pass D is 59.6...Anderson averaged 48.6 against the Raiders
...teams average 178.7 yds per game against the Raiders pass D...Anderson passed for 248 yds against the Raiders
...the Raiders give up .857 passing TDs per game...Anderson threw 1 TD against the Raiders pass D
...the Raiders pick off an average of 1.42 passes per game...Anderson threw 2 Ints against the Raiders
...teams QBs rate an average of 69 against the Raiders...Anderson's passer rating against the Raiders was 57.
...the Raiders pass defense is ranked 3rd in the NFL at this time.
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Just trying to put Anderson's poor performances against NE and Oak in proper perspective. These are two of the toughest pass defenses in the NFL. It is clear that Anderson does need to improve and he should as he gains more experience.
...WOOF...mac
Those of you attempting to use stats to justify a position might want to dig a little deeper and see what other QBs did against say NE or Oak.
It's one thing to claim Anderson played poorly in the Patriots game and/or the Raiders game, BUT...when we take all the QBs who have played against those two teams and judge them as a whole we find out Anderson was better in some area's than the rest of the QBs who played against those two teams and worse than some in other areas...BUT, only a few percentage points worse than the rest of the QBs who played against these two teams.
All QBs, as a whole, have played poorly against the Patriots and the Raiders pass defenses. So does that mean Anderson should be benched for his poor play against those two teams?
Nope...actually, IMO, Anderson's performance against two of the toughest pass defenses can be used to point out that Anderson is the youngest in NFL experience of all the other QBs that faced the Raiders and Patriots, therefore, he did well in those games considering all the factors.
I realize there are a lot of Brady Quinn fans who want Anderson on the bench for some reason, any reason. But, as a Browns fan of 45 years, I say don't mess with what is winning Browns football games...the offense.
So far this season, the Browns offense is outscoring the opponents in our wins because the defense has been so poor. We don't want to do anything that could affect the offense while the Browns are still working toward securing a playoff spot.
The stat that matters most is winning...after winning, the most important thing is getting our team to progress, to get better each week.
If, at the end of the season the Browns are out of the hunt for a playoff spot, I would have no problem with Quinn getting on the field to gain some experience. But for now, winning takes precedent over all else.
...WOOF...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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