DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 32 Colts 23 Post Game

I think there may have been an injury factor on that last possession. We already know he had bruised ribs from the hit on his second Int. He also reportedly had a wrist injury from the sack that was negated by the offside penalty, and I recall seeing Baker bent over, with his right arm hanging down as if he had hurt his right shoulder too on the hit that bruised his ribs. May have been a stinger judging by his body language leaving the field. All of which begs the question: why not go with Keenum if Baker was hurting, and the desire was to throw the ball?

Maybe the plan was to work the clock, then punt, and bet that Rivers didn't have the gas to drive down the field for a winning TD with time running out. Maybe the clinching FG was an unexpected bonus because of D'Ernest's clutch run on 3rd & 9? We really have no way of knowing, but I think an assumption of Stefanski having trust issues with Mayfield is a reach.

Dave, there are a lot of posters speaking for me, so please don't just take their word for it and let me explain.

I am NOT saying there ARE trust issues in the clutch. I am saying it is something to watch for and/or monitor as the year progresses. Baker's 4th quarter numbers have been bad this year. Worst in the league. We have been running the ball when we need to clinch the game on the last drive. I get that running is smart, but the 3rd and 8 makes me wonder.

There are analysts saying the same thing. Guys who actually played qb. Once again, I am not saying there definitely are trust issues in the clutch, but it's something to think about and watch for because eventually we are going to need Baker to step up and make plays in the clutch.

Oh, and let me say something else because there are folks saying things in other threads that are also misrepresenting my opinions. I do NOT think we should bench Baker. I do think we need to see if he improves. I do not think we should cut Baker. I do believe it takes time to learn a new offense and there is the possibility of growth.

I'm telling you this because you and I get along and I don't want to get into a war w/certain posters. I don't even respond to their posts anymore. It's just tough when they twist my intentions around and then others automatically believe them.

Did you sign up for the all-22 film?

If I had more time and internet data I would. I'd like to see what open looks he's missing in the 4th or if it's just super conservative playcalling by Stefanski.

Either way, both should hopefully improve.

I wouldn't make some of the word choices that you make Vers BUT if a reader couldn't see who wrote some of your post and just read the content objectively you have to give the content credence.

So words like "trust" are given a certain connotation because you said them. I'm not telling you how to write or what to write. You are your own man.

Nobody should try to pidgeon whole me because I attempt to read what you post objectively. I don't always agree with you. If its not worth a pissing contest to me I just keep it moving. The same with other posters who I might not see eye-to-eye with.

I don't frame my concerns with Baker as critically as you might but I can't dismiss what you say, out of hand, either.

I obviously don't speak for vers, but when I've mentioned 4th quarter misses, I'm talking about when he's thrown and missed. Ex. the pass to OBJ in the Dallas game just prior to OBJ's end-around.

Somewhat different topic...

I thought the following was a surprising insightful article. Surprising because it came from the PD which often treads on surface aspects of the team. After I read the article and thought about how the game was called it seemed accurate.

I makes me hopeful against the Squeelers.

Smooth Operator...

Kevin Stefanski once again smoothly operated the Browns to victory and called his best game yet: Film review
Updated Oct 12, 9:15 AM; Posted Oct 11, 8:22 PM
5
Cleveland Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski vs. Indianapolis Colts, October 11, 2020
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By Ellis L. Williams, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is Kevin Stefanski too old to be considered a “boy wonder?”

Perhaps at 38 years young, his new nickname should be “Smooth Operator,” as Baker Mayfield referred to him earlier this week.

Stefanski isn’t interested in any title other than head coach. He doesn’t seek praise because he doesn’t need it. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t worthy of a slick alter ego.

After calling his best game yet as a Brown against the Colts' No. 1 ranked defense, he’s earned it.


Behind a complete and calculated game plan, Cleveland won its fourth straight game, beating the Colts 32-23 at FirstEnergy Stadium on Sunday.

Let’s unpack why Stefanski called his best game yet.

The Browns avoided third and long against a fierce Colts defense

Coming into the game, the Colts led the league in third-down defense. Teams were only converting 31% of their third-down tries. On Sunday, Cleveland went 10 of 17 on third down and averaged only 4.6 yards to go on third downs.

That’s the game.

Yes, of course nine points from the Browns defense helps, but Stefanski made a deliberate effort to avoid third-and-long against a Colts defense that was forcing opposing quarterbacks into a 17.0 passer rating.


As Pro Football Focus pointed out this week, spiking the ball was a “better” play than throwing on Indy’s secondary.


There are a few reasons for that.




First, the Colts' pass rush features two All-Pro talents in Justin Houston and DeForest Buckner. By getting into third down and more than 6 yards (passing situation), Houston and Buckner can pin their ears back and get after the quarterback.

Neither had a sack on Sunday.

Stefanski knew he couldn’t put Baker Mayfield in such situations, which is why Cleveland instead generated positive plays on early downs, focused on power runs and play-action passes: To make life on third and fourth downs much easier.

Cleveland’s average distance to go on second down was 8 yards -- meaning, Cleveland averaged about 4 yards per play on second down, including four passes of 7 or more yards to either Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham Jr. and Rashard Higgins.

Higgins' second-quarter touchdown came via a verticals concept. Mayfield found Higgins inside the hole of the Colts' press-man-to-man, two-high-safety look.





Then to end the game, Stefanski once again remained disciplined. Instead of throwing on third and 9 with 2:27 to play, he stuck with his go-to play: power left.

Even without right guard Wyatt Teller, Stefanski trusted his unit to make a play, and backup guard Chris Hubbard didn’t disappoint. Notice Hubbard pull across the formation and fill a hole, allowing backup running back D’Ernest Johnson to probe downfield before bouncing it outside for 18 yards and the win.

Stefanski trusted two backups (Hubbard and Johnson) at the game’s most critical moment. That’s fine coaching, teaching and ultimately, execution.




What we learned

Of course, every team wants to avoid third and long. But many coaches cannot resist calling aggressive vertical passing plays on early downs. Before they know it, it’s third-and-10 after two incompletions.

Stefanski didn’t let that happen to Mayfield on Sunday. He’s protecting his team and his quarterback by fully understanding the opponent and practicing the discipline to honor his game plan.

It’s so impressive. Cleveland landed a real one. I doubt “Smooth Operator” sticks, but it should because that’s exactly what Stefanski is.

Browns Mask Affiliate Promo 2020

Good stuff Guard ~ Thanks!

Is Stefanski going by strict money ball stats? Seems that was one reason we we got rid of Dorsey and Kitchens they didnt trust the stats.

With that 3rd down play call ... I wondered how much of it was “I don’t trust Baker ... let’s make them burn the final timeout and pin them back”

These two stuck out to me.

And don't forget Hollywoods devastating block on the outside, yes another backup

Running on the 3rd and 9 play call, combined with his 4Q performance definitely raises an eyebrow on that topic. I'm glad it worked out, regardless. Had we lost the game after that, I'm sure it would be under more scrutiny.

Along with his performance against the Colts, he also missed the wide open pass to Beckham vs the Cowboys in the 4th quarter.

I also see the point about wanting to keep the clock running and Baker getting hurt. Was that also the series where he just slightly overthrew Hooper? I honestly can't remember.

One thing is for sure...we aren't always going to be in the position of fending off the other team from overcoming our lead. At some point, we're going to have to claw back, and it's going to fall on Baker. That will be a moment where he needs to shine. Hell, could happen as early as this weekend.

I admit to wanting Mayfield to succeed, and I'm sure you feel the same because he plays QB for our team. I'm not one who takes it personally if someone is more critical of him than I am, because we all see what we see, and I've read your posts long enough to take you at your word that you have a valid reason for thinking what you think. So, I wasn't impugning you, or anyone else for thinking that maybe the HC doesn't trust him with the ball in his hands and the game on the line. Its a legit concern, I just don't see it that way. Not that you need my permission, but keep posting what you think and don't bother yourself with people disagreeing. All this is just for fun, after all.

That's a good way to frame the conversation... what about when (not if) we get off to a poor start?

Thanks oober, guard, 5, and Dave.

I think my history on this board shows that I call it like I see it. I'm not always right, but it's not because I have an "agenda." Hell, that is one of the dumbest words ever when used to describe opinions. It's intended to diminish the validity of an opposing opinion. Nothing more.

Anyway, I do have to say that one of the reasons the "trust" thing came into my mind is because when both Dallas and Indy made the game tight, I did not trust Baker. I thought he would gag. Then, when I saw the play calls on the final drives the last two weeks, I began to wonder more. Again, I am not saying it is the truth. Just something to monitor. Fate and I had a discussion on the Baker thread and he said that he does trust Baker. I didn't try to argue w/him. It's his opinion and I respect it. I think that is talking football, but there are a handful of posters who seemingly reside on here to shout down the opinions of others. Attack one's personality/character and it invalidates whatever that person says. It's childish and mean-spirited.

With that being said, I know all four of you guys think more highly of Baker than I do. My goal is not to try and change your minds. It's to discuss and debate fairly. I think we all learn when that is done. The problem is that we rarely get to dive into such discussions because a handful of posters have the need to shout down any contrary opinions.

Are you finished trashing Baker?



I respect your football opinion, and always have, & I see what you are saying when you talk about the high throws, bailing to his left, which is in my opinion is partly due to the shortness of the boy.

I also think he’s got guts, has a good arm and can get hot in a hurry.

I want him to succeed cuz I’m a Browns fan .... I didn’t even want to draft him but once we did, I’m on board until I’m not.

He’s helped - notice that word - get us to 4-1.

Let’s hope he plants a flag in Pittsburgh.

LOL....

One thing, bro. I'm not saying he is "bailing" to his left. They are designed roll outs. He bailed to the right last year. He's doing better in that aspect of the game this year. Improvement.

I meant the other left.

Lol, the ones where he rolls left are much more effective.

Edit reason: used the wrong word again.

j/c

Re-watching the game tonight.

At 14:51 in Q4, Spero Dedes announces: "First time that the Browns have punted in this game-"

...and I had to hit the pause button, to share that fireworks went off in my brain.



Browns went 3 entire quarters without a punt.

Against a highly-rated, NFL- caliber Defense.
That's pretty remarkable.

I'm starting to sense that culture shift I've begged & screamed about for 2 decades. Still early, but this... this not only feels different, it looks different. Calm, confident HC, calling plays like football is chess, and his last name is Kasparov. Disciplined players not hurting the team with boneheaded mistakes. Complimentary play- and more importantly: compensatory play.

That last one is truly important, imho. Compensatory play is what good teams do when one or another of their squads is struggling in any given game. If the O is having trouble moving the ball, the D steps up to limit the other team to 3-and-outs... or forces a turnover. If the D is getting overwhelmed, the O mounts a dominant, time-consuming drive to give them a blow, and give the DC time to adjust the game calls.

Good teams have been doing this stuff to the Browns for years and years. I have to say, it's a real treat to see Browns doing it to other teams. Teams that have routinely had our number.

_______________


I don't think I'm seeing a mirage this time.

Last year, I wrote a little piece of fan fiction. In it, I described a desperate shipwreck survivor (Browns fan) clinging to flotsam, as he watches his happy cruise ship sink, and his Paradise Island recede from view over the horizon. I wrote it as a joke, in that 'dark humor' style that only True Browns Fans could ever understand (don't forget- one of our own dubbed this team a "Factory of sadness"). But that was last year.

So many issues of substance look different this year.
Overall, the team just looks more polished, poised and prepared than in most other years.

THIS is the early evidence I've been looking/begging for in every single regime the Browns have trotted out since 1999. Basic competence. Professional standards. All oars rowing in unison. Boat on a straight course.

It's early... but I'm starting to allow optimism to infiltrate my Battered Dawg Syndrome.


This completely upends my personal world view.
I wasn't ready for this- this early. With an entirely new coaching staff. And no conventional offseason/TC. This scenario had: TYPICAL BROWN MELTDOWN written all over it from the very start.

And look where we are. 4-1.
With a chance to take down PIT in a divisional tilt that doesn't actually scare me all that much.

I'm still not used to being this kind of Browns Fan.
Good thing I have my therapist on one-touch speed dial...

This has been my thought as well towards the end of the last two games. Even my wife said "...so they're going to lose now?"

This is different. The defense kept fighting even with Mean Man Myles getting a breather on Indy's final drive. He comes in forces a pressure, and then game over right into the arms of a youngin' who had his number called the last two weeks.

This truly is exciting. Two weeks ago when OBJ had the end around TD I went from "Noooooo..." *quizical look as he breaks a tackle* *stand up from the recliner* "WHAT?! GO GO GO GO!" as he ran into the endzone. My wife looked at me and asked "wait, why you were saying no? What just happened? Did they score?"

Despite the dumpster fire that is 2020, we finally don't have a dumpster fire of a team.

It is mind boggling

I'm with you there, brother.

I don't necessarily think more highly of Baker, but I do wonder what Stefanski thinks of him. He definitely has been hesitant to put the game on Baker's shoulders, especially after the first game. I just don't know how much of that is trust vs. not trying to reverse Baker's mental "therapy" that Stefanski has seemingly instituted this year. He seems to want to bring him along slowly, because, at times, he will really allow Baker to sling it, but it seems to be in controlled, lower-risk circumstances.

What I'm anxiously awaiting, like Oober mentioned, is how Stefanski deals with it and calls plays the next time he has no choice but to put the game in Baker's hands. We are the underdog this weekend, playing in a hostile environment, so we definitely could see it happen Sunday. I want to go out on a limb and actually predict that we're going to see Baker this weekend with the game in his hands late.

We ran on Pittsburgh last season in our win last season, I think we should be able to do it again.

I'd prefer to put off that little experiment until later.

Just want to add another thing. I would really love to see 4 consistent quarters of good play by Baker. The first half of the Colts game was possibly the best version of Baker we've seen. The second half was 2019 Baker all over again.

I believe Cody Parkey is 24-24 on extra points and field goals. Can’t ask for anything more from him.

Cody has been kicking it straight.

Cody is the new Phil.

Until he needed to ice the game last week.

A doink off the upright will look the same as drilling it right down the middle on the scoreboard. Its just like in baseball where every bloop / bleeder / ground-ball-with-eyes looks like a line drive in the box score the next day. Its better to be lucky than good.

Just curious -

Does the blocked XP count in this? Or does it not since it became a 2 point conversion?

It counts as a 2 pt. conversion. The same as a fake kick.

And the Cowboys were offside.

Well, if it was an issue with his blocking, the play springing Johnson should go a ways to getting him more playing time.

Does anyone believe that the coaching staff is purposely screwing Higgins or that they don't know who their best players are?

I certainly don't think that. I do think that this coaching staff has built up my trust in terms of their player evaluations and scheming.

One thing about Higgins though, is that he seems to have some sort of an intangible chemistry with Mayfield. I can't really put my finger on it, but that back shoulder throw TD against the Colts and (I'm going to go way back here) a post route TD that Higgins had against the Ravens, leaves me with the impression that Mayfield for whatever reason seems to be able to throw with better anticipation to Higgins. On a per-catch basis - which I know skews things with guys who get less reps - Higgins probably has one of the better rates of return.

I fully admit the coaching staff knows infinitely more than me when it comes to the personnel and I know they would never screw over players purposefully, but I can't help but feel there is some sort of an intangible chemistry between Mayfield and Higgins. I could be wrong, as always.

Maybe he practices like Jane but plays like Tarzan.

I have no way of knowing of you are correct or not. But from my experience of playing sports you could be onto something. I've seen players that I call workout warriors who look great in practice but just can't seem to bring it on game day. I've also seen players who just don't seem to practice well but when the adrenaline starts flowing on game day they play lights out.